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#517073 - 01/11/19 06:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: This is killing me [Re: DSM]
Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 338
2bSolo Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 338
Thanks to all for taking the time to respond. Seems like this stuff will get done.

To Music Student, I have been where you are. I think all of us have. But in the end, we all agree that nothing does what BB does. So try to hang in.

2b

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#517080 - 01/11/19 06:42 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: This is killing me [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5801
Loc: Chicago
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5801
Loc: Chicago
I get so little time with my music. So when I do sit down I want things to work. Here comes another weekend and when I sit down .... problems.

Now I have to ask... Does the BIAB VSTi work with MIDI?? I just tried to put a couple midi super tracks into Reaper via the BIAB VSTi and all the midi tracks were rendered to audio??
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#517115 - 01/12/19 03:49 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: This is killing me [Re: 2bSolo]
Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 917
Loc: Spain
Cerio Offline
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 917
Loc: Spain
Originally Posted By: 2bSolo


Perhaps it would help the rest of us to study their computer specs and how they set up their files. Do they have a dedicated machine that does not get Windows Updates? Do they turn their wifi off and use a different machine for other tasks such as e-mail? Why are they so successful? Or maybe they just read the instructions more completely smile I don't know what it is, but there is a difference between these folks and the rest of us. I would like to know what it is so I can adopt their practices.


Sorry, but there are a lot (and I mean, A LOT) of reproducible bugs in BIAB, some of them are being addressed by PG Music, some of them have been around for years. Sure that many issues reported here are due to user error, but many others exists no matter if you're using a dedicated machine, turning your Wifi OFF or how well you read the user manual.
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#517128 - 01/12/19 06:10 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: This is killing me [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11790
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11790
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
I get so little time with my music. So when I do sit down I want things to work. Here comes another weekend and when I sit down .... problems.

Now I have to ask... Does the BIAB VSTi work with MIDI?? I just tried to put a couple midi super tracks into Reaper via the BIAB VSTi and all the midi tracks were rendered to audio??



Yes for some reason all MIDI is saved as audio. I have to remember to clear that folder every time I try the VSTi, which isn't much as I have had problems with it so I just use BiaB.

If you use the master to move from the VSTi to your DAW you will get audio. You have to move each track individually to get MIDI to your DAW, a real PITA for us MIDI users IMHO.

But Peter has indicated that they will work on getting the VSTi to work like other VSTis. That is select a sound source in your DAW and have the VSTi address it. When that happens I will be a happy camper. Until then I will continue to use BiaB drag and drop as I always have.
_________________________
Steal a man's wallet and he will poor for a week. Teach him music and how to buy instruments and he will be poor for his lifetime.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#517131 - 01/12/19 06:33 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: This is killing me [Re: MarioD]
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5801
Loc: Chicago
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
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Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: MarioD
If you use the master to move from the VSTi to your DAW you will get audio. You have to move each track individually to get MIDI to your DAW, a real PITA for us MIDI users IMHO.

Thanks Mario, I was hoping you would chime in as I knew you were on top of this. However.... even when I move only the midi track it only brings rendered audio. Maybe this is new with all the changes. But for me there is no MIDI in the BIAB VSTi. Or if there is, I can't find it. So does that make this a user error? crazy

Originally Posted By: MarioD
But Peter has indicated that they will work on getting the VSTi to work like other VSTis. That is select a sound source in your DAW and have the VSTi address it.


When? grin


Originally Posted By: MarioD
When that happens I will be a happy camper. Until then I will continue to use BiaB drag and drop as I always have.


You and me both. cry
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#517158 - 01/12/19 09:04 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: This is killing me [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11790
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
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Dan, how are you trying to move MIDI? I just did an other experiment with the latest updated VSTi and I could move MIDI, SuperMidi, and the MIDI from the RTs that have MIDI successfully to my DAW, Studio One Pro 4. I just dragged the little square by the track name to my DAW.

One major problem that I did encounter was when I dragged some MIDI to my DAW then decided to add another track via the VSTi, which was still open. It locked my system so tight that even Ctrl-Alt-Del wouldn't work. Thus power off power on and then it took a long time for the system to come up. So the only way to add to an already generated song is to open another instance of the VSTi.

{edit} - FYI - I am not on top of the VSTi usage. I will be using my old drag-n-drop BiaB method for my songs. But I can see where using the VSTi to add tracks to other old method generated tracks may be useful. I'll have to mess with that later.


Edited by MarioD (01/12/19 09:09 AM)
_________________________
Steal a man's wallet and he will poor for a week. Teach him music and how to buy instruments and he will be poor for his lifetime.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#517165 - 01/12/19 09:18 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: This is killing me [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 4532
Loc: South Carolina
RobH Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 4532
Loc: South Carolina
Sometimes guys I think we whine so much about little things. That we lose sight of the bigger ones. Just a few years ago if you wanted a home studio, you had to record and bounce tracks on a tape reel, and you really had to either play all the instruments or have someNow you can open a program and the darned thing will generate 5 tracks of beautiful wave file in under 5 minutes, 1 minute if you use the main program. These can be used, mixed diced and sliced to your personal taste. I include myself in this as well.

So you have to drag the midi track over individually how long does that take? Like 1 minute.

I also see a lot of conversation about the fact the plugin doesn’t do what the main program does. I do not believe PGM ever meant for it to have every feature the main program does that would be a seriously heavy VSTi.

I can see why some want rewire so the DAW can play in sync with BiaB. I’ll have to mull that over as to the need. It still seems better to me to drag your tracks and process them in the DAW.

All in all I think the plugin is a success after a few patches 90% of the issues are now solved. It works flawlessly in my DAW. Still a few issues to work out but it is very useful.

Don’t take this wrong I’m not chastising anyone just pointing out the facts. Funny thing is that in the 2 decades I have been messing with music software, participating in the forums at Cakewalk, PG, Multitrackstudios, N Track, and more. I have seen a pattern, something new comes out and immediately no one is happy cause it does meet their personal expectations. That’s not to say many of the issues are not real, just that we all want it to do something different and that makes it hard. I would hate to run a software company and try to make everyone happy that buys the product.

Let’s try to see the big picture here somemofmthenthings that have been on the wishlist are here and being slowly worked out.

Just the musings of an old music coot or loon for those Ca adia s in the room.
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Lenovo Win 10 8 gig ram, BiaB, Realband, Studio one Professional, Melodyne, Gibson S-1, Carvin 980 Cobalt acoustic, Ovation legend 12 string, jazz bass clone, Fender Mustang III amp, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL interface, TC Helicon voiceworks.

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#517167 - 01/12/19 09:29 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: This is killing me [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5801
Loc: Chicago
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5801
Loc: Chicago
I think I see the problem.

When I open my all midi .sgu file in the VSTi, I see my yellow midi tracks and also see Super Midi Tracks are green (indicating they have been rendered or the app thinks they are audio and need to be rendered). When I generate the midi stay midi and I can drag them as midi, but the Midi super tracks stay green and are audio only.

This is the same problem I reported for the save VSTs in BIAB. The VST on a yellow midi save but the VST on a blue midi super track does not.

Am I the only one who uses Midi super tracks?
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#517214 - 01/12/19 11:14 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: This is killing me [Re: RobH]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11790
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11790
Loc: Hamlin NY
RobH, what you said is true to a certain degree.

64 bit BiaB worked on my system from the git go. It did have a few problems for others but, as usual and as far as I know, they were quickly fixed by PGMusic. I knew going to 64 bits would have some problems but lets face it the transition was relatively smooth.

BUT the VSTi was a piece of crap from the git-go and definitely not ready for prime time. Lots of fixes for it have come out, again as usual for PGMusic, but it still isn't right for many people, including me: it may be OK for RT users but it is a disaster for us MIDI users. Peter has indicated that they will be working on it so it performs like a real VSTi for us MIDI users so I know it will be done sometime. Meanwhile it is useless for me.

Being an old timer I know that things will get worked out. But if I were a new purchaser that wanted this VSTi I would have gotten my money back and blasted the Internet about how bad it was. I just hope that one new user does that as I want PGMusic to flourish.

YMMV

PS - I wouldn't complain about generation time, although I will never understand why MIDI users have to wait for the wav generations when all we will do is delete them. I remember using computers with tape as the backup. Sometimes I would wait 20 minutes or so just to have an error in the last minute. Thus rewind and start over. Those were not the good old days!
_________________________
Steal a man's wallet and he will poor for a week. Teach him music and how to buy instruments and he will be poor for his lifetime.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#517218 - 01/12/19 11:22 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: This is killing me [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 3369
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 3369
You are best to upload a screen shot or an animated gif.
This is what I get from a Super MIDI Track:


Attachments
BBvst-SMT.png


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#517222 - 01/12/19 11:34 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: This is killing me [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 1349
fiddler2007 Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 1349
If this is audio generated from MIDI one can see even here that the exported audio levels are quite low .... As for audio exports the RTs tehmselves seem OK in the corresponding ReatTrack folders however. IMO a serious flaw making the VST useless for serious work. Why has this been overlooked beats me ...

Still, without leveling and normalizing options, and the long rendering times the 1.9.28. VST is still a mile or 2 off compared to BIAB itself ... although a tested mixdown was plm -3.5 dB peaking, OK for a pre master mix for external processing.

PS The mixed master track was a chaos of out of sync tracks .....

Moral is: NO MORE UPDATES please until the VST basics are fixed .... done enough beta testing.

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#517224 - 01/12/19 11:45 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: This is killing me [Re: Pipeline]
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5801
Loc: Chicago
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
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Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: Pipeline
You are best to upload a screen shot or an animated gif.
This is what I get from a Super MIDI Track:


OK, since you showed me yours I will show you mine. Here are two pictures for the exact same .sgu file. BIAB 2019 V612.
1) BIAB 32 mixer
2) BIAB VSTi in Reaper

Just as I described the MST go from blue to green just by opening the VSTi,

Hold on just a minute, you are using the "standalone". That's cheating. This is about the VSTi in our DAW Host. All that other stuff (program linked to a program attached to an app...)is just weird.


Attachments
Capture.PNG




Edited by MusicStudent (01/12/19 11:54 AM)
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#517240 - 01/12/19 12:59 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: This is killing me [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11790
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11790
Loc: Hamlin NY
From my experimenting with the VSTi I found that dragging the master to my DAW I will get all audio: for some reason the VSTi wants to work in audio. For MIDI one must drag the yellow square icons just after the instrument's name to the DAW. That must be done one at a time. This works for SuperMIDI also. For RTs with MIDI you would click on the yellow icon that is on the right side of that track.

{edit} I see that you are using the fx version of the VSTi. I am using the regular 64 bit VSTi. That may be why you are not getting the yellow icon. Try the regular VSTi and let us know how you make out.



Edited by MarioD (01/12/19 01:04 PM)
_________________________
Steal a man's wallet and he will poor for a week. Teach him music and how to buy instruments and he will be poor for his lifetime.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#517248 - 01/12/19 01:28 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: This is killing me [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 3369
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 3369
This is what I get with the same songs:


Attachments
BBvst-MST-01.png

BBvst-MST-02.png


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#517284 - 01/12/19 02:28 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: This is killing me [Re: Pipeline]
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5801
Loc: Chicago
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
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Loc: Chicago
Pipeline based on your pictures my conclusion is MSTs appear only as audio and do not come over as MIDI
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#517286 - 01/12/19 02:31 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: This is killing me [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5801
Loc: Chicago
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5801
Loc: Chicago
Mario,
good catch, I don't for the life of me know why there are multiple VSTis. But So I tried the VST3 and same results as the VSTFX. No midi for MST. I tried the VST and if would not even open the sgu file.

Based on Pipelines pictures I would say we have a confirmed bug since no one can show me a picture where a blue MST does not go to green audio in any of the VSTs.


Edited by MusicStudent (01/12/19 02:37 PM)
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#517296 - 01/12/19 03:06 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Well I am not dead yet. [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5801
Loc: Chicago
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5801
Loc: Chicago
OK, I got it to work. Inserting a MST from the BIAB VST3 into Reaper. cry

Given that a MST can actually be used in the VST I have to acknowledge that my issues up to this point have been user error. For all I know the instructions are in the Manual.

However, since the work flow I had to discover to get it done is so convoluted, combined with the fact that no one else seems to be having this issue, I am not going to share it. I simply had to work too hard to discover this and for all I know I am the only one who knows this workflow therefore I may now have a competitive advantage with my music. wink

But if you really want to know, PM me and I will share privately. grin


Edited by MusicStudent (01/12/19 03:06 PM)
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#517309 - 01/12/19 03:50 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: This is killing me [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 272
Loc: Houston, Texas
cooltouch Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 272
Loc: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
In fact, we intentionally try to discover them so they can be fixed: we try to break stuff.


Geez, I should be one of your beta testers. I'm extraordinarily good at breaking computer related "stuff." Dunno why, it just happens. Seems like if there's a problem it isn't me finding it, it's it finding me. IOW, I don't really have to look for stuff in order to figure out a way to break it. I just go on my merry way and, if it's a little shaky, I'll find a way to bring it to its knees in short order. And I'm just your regular run-of-the-mill user too.
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#517379 - 01/12/19 08:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: This is killing me [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 1349
fiddler2007 Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 1349
Maybe these MIDI file export settings make a difference with saved SGU or MFU files for VST import?:


Attachments
BIAB 2019 MIDI export.jpg



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Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows Build 614 Available

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Summary of changes for build 614:
Fixed: Songs would not save plugins on tracks that had a Hi-Q patch selected previously.
Fixed: Hi-Q Patches would not load if the Sforzando VSTi was not in the VSTi plugin list.
Fixed: The Sforzando VSTi was not automatically being added to the VSTi plugin list during bootup (64 bit only).
Fixed: Loading the Hi-Q patch "Hi-Q 040 01 Synth, Analog, FatBass Sforzando" would cause an access violation error.
Fixed: Track Settings > Set Track offset [0] was not working properly.
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VST DAW Plugin 1.10.4 fixes:
Improved: Generation is much faster, at least 4X.
Added: Notification dialog when generation is complete, and a setting to toggle this on/off.
Added: 32-Bit AAX plugin for Pro Tools 10.
Fixed: Soloist not generating on first attempt.
Fixed: MIDI tracks could be rendered at wrong tempo in the Master.
Fixed: Multiriff playback and bar highlighting
Added: Much faster MIDI renders: "No MIDI Renders" option in Custom Generate menu. If this is selected, any MIDI tracks will be left as MIDI and not rendered to wave which takes time.

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Summary of changes:
Fixed: Songs would not load or save VST data if larger than 1 megabyte, displaying flash message error "VST/FX data is too large to save".
Fixed: It was not possible to use the N key while entering note based lyrics in the Notation window.
Fixed: Recorded MIDI would be erased if also recording audio.
Fixed: The MIDI Driver dialog would not show the selected VSTi or DXi synth after choosing one in the Plugins window.
Updated: PDF and help file documentation.

Band-in-a-Box VST DAW Plugin 1.9.28 fixes:
There are lots of significant fixes and additions in this patch, especially related to some single track operations not working.

Fixed: Right-clicking generate bass track generated all individual tracks
Fixed: StylePicker, RealTracks Picker, and other style and instrument selection windows would sometimes open behind the main window, requiring you to alt+tab to see them.
Fixed: Loading demo from StylePicker or loading a song when a special track was already present sometimes added an extra RealTracks (special track) to page 2
Fixed: Output directory error.
Fixed: BBW sometimes not receiving message when run as administrator. This would cause some actions to hang or not work at all.
Fixed: Skip grey bars when moving selector through chordsheet.
Fixed: Dragging tracks into Reason would sometimes give a 'Not found' error message.
Fixed: AAX Plugin was not being recognized by Pro Tools.
Fixed: Problem scrolling chord table when crossing PartMarker during highlight.
Fixed: Repaint problem in Reason (possibly other DAWs).
Fixed: Some opened BB songs with realcharts on a frozen track would cause an access violation.
Added: Detailed log file written in BB Data folder bbw4exe_pluginLog.txt.
Fixed: Generation of single tracks would hang the program if the bb folder contained the file MaxPluginsToScan.txt containing Max=0. This file should not normally be present except in rare cases where a DX plugin scan failed.
Added: VST2 FX 32-bit version.
Improved: Installer has options for installing all plugin types. All files are now digitally signed.

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