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Lately, I became a fan of this young man videos. He is smart and funny. Most importantly, he is critical of products in constructive way. He tests many popular plugins and much more. This video is pretty long, but I found it interesting enough to share:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR7WV_F0GCQ



Best regards,
Misha.

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Yea I subscribed to him sometime ago. He makes me laugh.


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Misha,

That is an interesting video to watch. Very eye opening to me. I'm glad he included automated mastering by Ozone as well as internet based and live with a mastering professional. The video covers all the bases and he is fun to watch.


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Jim thanks!
He has many videos debunking (and in some cases praising) popular and/or expensive plugins. He feeds info like mashed potatoes. Very easy to grasp, yet he talks about pretty complex things.

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Nice find, Misha! I especially found the interview with the mastering engineer very interesting, to see his workflow.

I subscribed to his channel and I'm going to watch a few more of his videos this morning.

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That certainly was worth watching. I can only speak for myself here. One route into this area are the effects
panels in Reaper or your favorite. Many of the same tweaks the professional was using are right there -- EQ, effects, Compression, etc. -- combined with levels on the time lines. This way, the user would go into the studio fairly well knowing what was going on.
Not to keep harping on the old days, but before digital, mastering was this magical black hole up the street. Media pros from that era, pre 1980's, have this residual intimidation. Techs were expected to adhere to production standards. Everything sounded the same, which is what they wanted. Music broke the molds -- Phil Specter, Les Paul, The Beatles. Then, along came digital.
I find the more I get into it, the more interesting it becomes. Notice the presenter laid up all the tracks for his final comparison. How cool! I haven't figured out how to use envelopes in Reaper, so, for Amazing Grace, I laid up four copies and split off regions set aside for special attention. Let's say you have one verse that needs its own tweak.
Also, finding tracks can be bounced, rendered, and then reposted to a new timeline, for further tweaking, or used as backing tracks for further production. Great fun@!

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I have spent a lot of time watching videos by this guy. It all started watching some of his Snake Oil videos where he gets various VST plugins, takes them through their paces and verifies the claims. He also has many good videos on mixing and why he does what he does. Most of the stuff he does goes back through a hardware console although he has several videos out, including this one where he compares in the box with “real mastering”. His main field is EDM but also looks at other stuff.

What I found interesting was he went from using Pro Tools to these days using Reaper (I think that was cost driven.). He very quickly got up and running with Reaper and has an interesting video on his workflows in Reaper. He also asks for help which I find interesting.

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One thing that he commented on during his review of Ozone8 is the master assistant function doesn't listen to the entire track before it makes its decisions, and that's something I've always wondered about too.
I use that function all the time to get me in the ballpark and have found that you have to be very careful to choose the right part of the track for it to analyse or it will get it wrong.
Maybe they will do that for Ozone9 :P

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Originally Posted By: BlueAttitude
One thing that he commented on during his review of Ozone8 is the master assistant function doesn't listen to the entire track before it makes its decisions, and that's something I've always wondered about too.
I use that function all the time to get me in the ballpark and have found that you have to be very careful to choose the right part of the track for it to analyse or it will get it wrong.
Maybe they will do that for Ozone9 :P


If you watch any of their mastering videos they explain you should have it analyze a chorus or the loudest part of the song. Which some loop a section which is the loudest part.
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I don’t use Ozone’s mastering assistant - I did experiment with it. As already mentioned most of the tutorials I read indicated that it should address 15-20s of the loudest part of your mix. I guess I’m the odd man out but when I’m mastering I want to base my Ozone module selections and other plug-ins on the entire mix - particularly with my multi band compressor (Waves LinMB). I look at mastering as more than focusing on loudness. But I’m likely missing something...there is ample precedent. smile

Thanks for the heads up I’m gonna watch some of his videos but I go in somewhat skeptical if his primary thing is EDM as that’s sonically far removed from our stuff.

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Yes, there is much more to mastering than just making the track louder smile

I use the master assistant to set up the EQ, Dynamics, and Dynamic EQ sections, and that's all.

I find it gets me close, assuming it is looking at the right part of the track. Those are the only Ozone8 modules I use, other than the Imager. I use other things for the final compress/limit stages (I don't use their maximizer module).

There is more than one way to get a good master, and I think we all have a certain workflow that we are comfortable with and gives consistent results.

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Ozone Ozone that's the one.
Slap it on and call it done.
Use Ozone!

Ok.. to "get it"... you gotta sing it like a jingle.


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Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
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Ozone, ozone VST
draining power of PC
CPU can not afford,
better look at things some more.

Some of these are way alike,
But will not cause freaking spike
Doing homework as I speak,
Will post back about it.

Got to run full scale test
with a couple dozen tracks
no merged buses, weird chains
Plugin sits in every lane.

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The guy in the video tends to use Fabfilter VSTs a bit. He also goes back through the hardware console for compression and some further eq. He has an interesting video on Neutron and the assistant.

Have a look at his Snake Oil videos. I checked him out prior to buying stuff and found it good. He is not negative but seems fairly straight up, calls it like he sees it.

When it comes to Ozone being heavy on CPU I tend to run only one instance on the Master Bus. I tend to use Neutron on most if not all tracks. Then I have a chain that I apply on the master track - Neutron visual mixer - Ozone - YouLean - Span. Since I’ve been doing things this way I have found my final tracks sound better balanced, clearer, overall tonally better and also consistent volume.

Tony

Last edited by Teunis; 01/19/19 12:15 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Teunis

When it comes to Ozone being heavy on CPU I tend to run only one instance on the Master Bus. I tend to use Neutron on most if not all tracks. Then I have a chain that I apply on the master track - Neutron visual mixer - Ozone - YouLean - Span. Since I’ve been doing things this way I have found my final tracks sound better balanced, clearer, overall tonally better and also consistent volume.

Tony


With Ozone 8 adv you can load individual modules and that cuts way down on CPU drain.

Bud

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Tony, Bud
You are ahead of me smile

Time ago somebody recommended Nectar 2 suite to me and I got it at a reasonable price. (I still think this plug is relevant)

Then I bought a second hand Neutron 2... and things started to take unpleasant turns as far as CPU overloads. Ohhh yeah, couple of instances it was fine., but as soon as I started working on larger projects baaad things started to happen. I had very high hopes for Nectar 3, but that was also a mega CPU vampire.

And then I tried FabFilter... I heard good things about it for a long time, but I have made a decision on Nectar and decided to go Izotope route... I must admit, I am a traitor. No more Izotope products for me except for Nectar 2 (which is CPU friendly) and Ozone Imager.

Fabfilter has a super cool feature very similar to "Tonal control" in Izotope, but in my opinion is much (much!) more intuitive. The most important thing to me it uses about 50% less CPU resources (than Neutron)!! Now I can have instances of EQ going to every channel without freezing, merging buses and other acrobatics.

Don't get me wrong, Izotope has great set of plugins, but not for "just good" computer, it has to be a rocket to handle more than 10-15 full instances.

Misha.

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Well, I have to confess that I’m running 32gb RAM on my Mac smile That enables me to run BiaB, a loaded Logic Pro, Safari, a wave editor, notes, iMessage and more simultaneously. It was relatively cheap and easy to install.

Bud

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Bud, it is not about Ram. It is about CPU and that what sucks. You can get bigger Ram chip but CPU is CPU...
You get what you get and you do not get upset, right? Unless you have 3k dusting in a coat pocket for top of the line computer of course smile

Plus it might be just that Mac / OS handles CPU processes differently.
I know I am being a bit harsh on Izotope, because there are "ways" of making things work, but Izotope is generally known as CPU thief I do not want to compromise on project lanes etc, because I only get a few hours a week to record stuff. Fortunately, I got Izotope cheap, so no regrets smile

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Years ago I discovered the biggest chewer of CPU was leaving MIDI with VSTs attached still running. It is important to either freeze or render midi tracks before mixing IMHO. I mention this as some folk are not aware of this and struggle when the time comes to mix.

Tony


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FWIW my Mac "Core i7" features a 14-nm "Kaby Lake" 4.2 GHz Intel "Core i7" processor (7700K) with four independent processor "cores" on a single chip, an 8 MB shared level 3 cache, 8 GB of easy to upgrade 2400 MHz DDR4 SDRAM, and a 2 TB Hard Drive+SSD "Fusion" drive. I have no idea how this equates to PC’s. And I had to look this up smile

The only difference is that I upgraded to 32gb RAM. As mentioned I did it myself and saved a bundle.

I mention all this because before the RAM upgrade I was having a few latency issues and occasional stalls.

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I have never had a problem running out of CPU resources using Neutron, although I don’t use it on every track, maybe three or four tracks in a project. Some of the waves plugins I have are much more CPU intensive than neutron (or nectar for that matter, which I also have and use)

As far as Ozone goes I’m on V8 now and I’ve been using it ever since V2. I’m a fan, it’s one of the best and most useful applications ever written IMHO.

But the workflow I’ve used for the last 15 years is to mix first and then master separately, so I use the standalone version of Ozone, never tried to add it to a project.

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Originally Posted By: BlueAttitude

...But the workflow I’ve used for the last 15 years is to mix first and then master separately, so I use the standalone version of Ozone, never tried to add it to a project.


I used it that way until I started using the LinMB. I wish I could insert it in the O8 chain because the standalone mode kept me “honest” in that it eliminated any opportunity to alter the mix while mastering.

Bud

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Tony, good observation!

Bud, I think CPU is your guardian angel of stability. I believe those 4 cores do the horse work.

Mine is 7600U (i7) and it is a dual core. It can handle many things (I ran 25+ tracks of audio+ midi in DAW without issues), but unfortunately it can not handle more than 5-7 full instances of Neutron. It can handle 10+ instances of Fabfilter with CPU not reaching 60%, so plenty of overhead smile

Lets put it this way. If I had a much faster computer, I would have probably stayed with Izotope, but in my scenario, FabFilter would work more efficiently, plus I do think their EQ plug is much more intuitive for finding clashes. One of things that I thought I would be using is "assistant" but I found that doing this stuff manually is more rewarding and fun.

For those who are interested, same White Sea Studio "Snake Oil" episode on Fabfilter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4eLQIjver0&t=452s

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I'm just using an i5 6400 here, no problems whatsoever.

Which makes me wonder if it might be a DAW thing? I use reaper, maybe it is more efficient than whatever it is you use at handling VST plugins?

But whatever, you have a solution that works for you, that's the bottom line.

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Dave,
I think you are ok, because you are using only a few instances and another thing, your computer CPU might be the 4 core one. My understanding with these CPU hungry plugs, that number of cores do matter most, not the Ram. I am greedy and do not use plugins in orthodox way. I like to slap them everywhere I see fit smile

I did not mean to put people on defense, sorry if I did. Izotope makes nice VSTs and price is right. But in my case it, Fabfilter works better for EQ, Comp and reverb.
I picked up Neutron Elements when it was nearly free a few weeks ago. I wonder if it drains CPU same way is advanced. It has couple of nice filters (Exiter and Transient Shaper). Should be a nice option for 1-2 instances.

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Somehow the thread seems to have wandered from 'Mastering' to 'Mixing'.

In the true sense, mastering is done after the mixing is complete.

There are many lightweight EQs, compressors and reverbs out there for mixing.
Ozone was meant for mastering (one instance in the final chain), and it does it's job very well.
FWIW, the Reaper EQ and compressor are nice lightweight VST FX for individual track use (and are freely available via ReaPlugs even if you don't yet have Reaper).
https://www.reaper.fm/reaplugs/

I've caught myself starting to run multiple instances of Ozone on various tracks, then later realized the error of my ways. Not due to CPU resources, but rather because I really shouldn't be processing those tracks that much at this point.
EQ, multiband compression, enhancer, limiter, spacial, reverb .. that's a lot to try to get right on a given track, and can be deceiving for a mix. You may get the track to sound awesome, but then fight with the rest of the mix, and leave no room for mastering.
I try to keep it more simpler during mixing..

For reverb I usually try to use a buss to keep everything in the same room (sharing a reverb), and the final EQ, multiband compression and limiting is usually saved for later once the mix is done.


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rharv,

There was a nice discussion few weeks ago on mixing vs mastering here smile
I am sorry if I turned this thread in a bit different direction. But the point is still somewhat present.
Automated mastering vs human mastering.

Ozone is "branded/marketed" for mastering. But it shares a lot of things between Izotopes other plugins with a few "specialized" exceptions. If they were not greedy, they would have sold things separately, under one platform. You want exiter, you buy exiter (which is present in elements too) If you want maximizer, you buy just that. I know folks that bought the "package" will argue differently, but I look at things lightly smile

Ozone or Neutron or Nektar or Fabfilter and a few hundred more plugins....
Probably half of the stuff is alike. Some stand out. The more I get into this music thing the more I realize that EQ is #1 Samurai sword for mixing or mastering. At this point, in my view Fabfilter EQ is one of the best things available because it is very light on CPU and allows for multi instances of full plugin on track, not just "relay" will show "clashes" throughout the project and still everything will run smooth.

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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Tony, good observation!

Bud, I think CPU is your guardian angel of stability. I believe those 4 cores do the horse work.

Mine is 7600U (i7) and it is a dual core. It can handle many things (I ran 25+ tracks of audio+ midi in DAW without issues), but unfortunately it can not handle more than 5-7 full instances of Neutron. It can handle 10+ instances of Fabfilter with CPU not reaching 60%, so plenty of overhead smile

Lets put it this way. If I had a much faster computer, I would have probably stayed with Izotope, but in my scenario, FabFilter would work more efficiently, plus I do think their EQ plug is much more intuitive for finding clashes. One of things that I thought I would be using is "assistant" but I found that doing this stuff manually is more rewarding and fun.

For those who are interested, same White Sea Studio "Snake Oil" episode on Fabfilter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4eLQIjver0&t=452s






There are several things you’ve said here that indicate issues to me. As I said earlier running midi with synths applied really chews up cpu like you would not believe. In Cakewalk it is very easy to see, there is an icon that shows CPU usage by core. You’ll find running MIDI with synths the CPU usage will be quite high. Freeze the tracks and CPU usage will almost assuredly drop to zilch. Then mix. When you are ready to start mixing the MIDI parts should be complete. However, if there are MIDI notes you want to adjust after a listen you can always unfreeze the track, adjust and refreeze. I can only speak for Cakewalk and Reaper and in both freezing and unfreezing is only a click. (I assume similar in other DAWs).

For me I would not be running Neutron on 25+ tracks. Quite a number of the tracks would go to busses. For example, drums can take 8 or more tracks, mix the drums then put them to a bus then use Neutron on the bus. Same with other parts.

Ozone is only used at the end. As Dave says if you have Ozone Standard or Advanced you can run it as a stand alone or with Ozone Elements render the song to stereo and pull it into a new instance of your DAW. Master after Mixing.

Just some thoughts as I read what you wrote.

Tony


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I think one of my main problems is not Izotope products, it is that my computer is 2 cores, and Neutron does not like 2 cores, it likes 4 much better smile

I like to slap VSTs on individual tracks. For example to use the Tonal Balance control, which I think is one of the power features of Izotope Neutron, but you have to have an instance of EQ on each track to see whole picture. Fabfilter allows for same thing without the CPU drain.

Misha.

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