PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Songwriting HELP: Need Good, Basic Luke Combs Style for Song Demos

Hey Peeps,

I am co-writing with some good country writers now, and I need some suggestions for a good style, or styles, or even a track list, that would mirror this Luke Combs song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2a9fgPI_PI

(She Got the Best of Me)

I have all of the Xtra Styles except 6 and know my way around with other stuff pretty well, but most of what I am finding sounds almost "too good" for what I need, if that makes sense. It is so good, and so rhythmic, it can be distracting from the lyrics for demos--so I am looking for just a few good styles and "bands" I can add my own acoustic to that will work as a generic song-pitching style. Good basic pounding drums, like this track, and a straight ahead but modern sounding acoustic. Again, the Luke Combs song is a reference for the style I am after. Just something to set vocals to, and not get too flashy.

Anyone got any recommendations on tracks that would make a good band, or styles they like that are close to this?

Hope this makes sense!!!

I sent you an SGU.

Tempo 75

RealTracks in style: 1827:Bass, Electric, PopModernGrooveA-B Ev16 075
RealTracks in song: 3231:Guitar, Electric, Background CinemaHeldHighDarin Ev16 090
RealTracks in song: 2542:Pedal Steel, Background ModernBalladAtmosphere Ev16 065
RealTracks in song: 1037:Guitar, Acoustic, Rhythm NorthernRockBallad Ev 065
RealTracks in song: 1947:Mandolin, Rhythm PopModernGrooveAndy Ev16 075
RealTracks in song: 1169:Guitar, Electric, Soloist RockMediumBrent Ev 120 - SET THIS TO "HELD" in the Picker - It is not for the solo - it is for "big held chords in the chorus"
RealDrums [in Song:ModernPopBallad16ths^01-a:Quiet hat, Sync-kick, b:Open hat, Sync-kick


Begin with just Acoustic, drums and bass.
added the mandolin later in the verse (for more flavor)

The Big Chords (solo guitar held) get added in the chorus. And the steel.
The CinemaHeldHighDarin czn be added later in the chorus for more of that "new sound".


Key of E.
Capo 4th fret and play

C G Em7 D

over and over and over...

I think it needs a snap track.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT9iox7jH1g



Regards,



Bob

David-Will you be able to share your demo here? I would love to give it a listen. Excited!

Floyd-I think that would be a great place to start. Very good advice.

Bob-I saw this a few weeks back and was counting the days until someone here mentioned that video. You all eat that stuff up. I guess go back to a snare drum; because THAT hasn't been done? That guy isn't their market anyway. But at least he knows his market. People like you.

Thanks Floyd!!!!!

You are da man!!!

Bob,

Can you record some snap samples at 90 BPM, 100 ads 120 and send them top me?

Thanks man!!

Hey Caaron,

I can let you listen but I am not sure I will post all of these.

I have found some co-writers and what I am looking for is something for pitch sessions, that I can tweak and use over and over. Just for a beautiful voice (not mine) to sing over.

They don't want nothing too fancy or distracting for a song pitch as I am sure you know.

"Bob-I saw this a few weeks back and was counting the days until someone here mentioned that video. You all eat that stuff up. I guess go back to a snare drum; because THAT hasn't been done? That guy isn't their market anyway. But at least he knows his market. People like you."



Nice.

I've never had to avail myself of the "Ignore" function before, but in your case it's appropriate.

All good. I sort of figured you can't; however didn't to miss out if I was able to. I totally respect that.

I'm sure you will do great. Lean heavily on Mr. Jane. I get a feeling he is fairly familiar with LC's catalog.

I think you are taking what I'm saying wrong.

There's a segment of the population that LOVES anything that is anti-current country radio. You've expressed yourself as being one of them before...as have many others here. I can completely understand where the guy that did the video feels the same way AND was smart enough to put it into a video that got 2 million plus views. I'm sure it will continue to climb too. Brilliant in my book.

I'm simply stating that the music in the video really wasn't created for people like him or you. His video is though! When I saw it, I said to my wife "I wonder how long it will be before this is posted on the forum. Many of them love this kind of thing."

I hope that makes sense. Done explaining myself.

David-I happened to think with how I worded everything this may have gotten lost. I was being sarcastic BUT truthful as well. That song has pretty straight forward drumming. There really isn't much in that song that doesn't lean to a more traditional sound and doesn't give in to the "snap/clap" country Bob was referencing.

The one exception being there are some reverse white noise builds before some of the changes that you may want to consider if you are pitching. You want to give yourself ever advantage. You could consider something like a reverse snare; or possibly cymbal.

Hope that helps in some small way.

That song actually has a fair amount going on it it; if you don't half-arse it.

Best of luck on your venture. It sounds exciting and we are all routing for ya!

Caaron,

As yet another example you might relate to:

In addition to other people I am working with, a woman came into my songwriting meeting last night and she said she LOVES country and listens to it six hours a day. She told me that the James Taylor type stuff I did last night was "pretty" but she liked country country and wanted to know if I wanted to write some country country with her. I asked her to to send me a list of her top twenty favorites, and I actually love a lot of them. There is some great stuff out there. Luke Combs is great. And he's from the mountains of North Carolina.

So I immediately asked her to co-write a whole bunch of stuff that celebrates country, and people who love country like her, not make fun of it, because I have a wild suspicion that if I just let her write the lyrics based on the kind of songs and performers she LOVES and I just write the chords and tweak the song (which I love to do) then people in Nashville who LOVE country might say:

"Well, Mr. Snyder, of course you can see the Wizard! You never said you wanted to see the Wizard! I thought you hated the Wizard. But if you love the Wizard, well come right in!"

That is the experiment I am running, among other similar opportunities.

In other words, I nod my head with deep reflective listening at the people who say they hate modern country, but for my time management purposes, I am going to co-write country with the girls who are in love with it.

Make sense?

David-you totally get it; and I understand what you are saying. To me, it sounds like you are playing it smart!

A few years back (ok, more than a few) Berklee was teaching writing classes and included a section on how to make the "star" believe they were more involved with the writing process than they were so that they really felt it was their song. I'm sure that was going on LONG before it was being taught in class. lol

I agree with the Luke Combs stuff. I think he relates to a broader base than many of the artists. He's a good ol' boy with some great music; if you ask me. I've seen interviews with him; and you can't help but like the guy. He's earned it; no doubt.

David's off to see the wizard! The wonderful wizard of (sorry if I type more I might run into copyright issues.

I'm very excited for ya man! Keep the stories and any updates you have on your path comin'.

run that experiment.... I'm curious what the powers that be, the guardians of the gates, would say. Let me know how that goes.

And.... I really, really, need to make the effort and set the time aside to get back to a few of the meetings this year.

I watched the Luke Combs video. Then I watched the Snap Track Video. They sound pretty much the same to me.

Yes, one has perhaps a drum kit, but there's nothing interesting going on. The beat is just about the same.

Caaron, now might be the time you want to ignore me as a modern country hater. I wear the arm-band proudly.

The prevalence of the old-school RnB snap-track in the supposed country songs is downright funny. I think the guy that made the video is on-point, except he points to Luke Combs' song as being refreshingly different than the snap tracks. Just listen to Luke Combs' "Houston We Have A Problem" - there's the drum machine for you with the listless snap-track beat.

It's not the drums that are better in the Luke Combs video he uses - Combs' lyrics are just a little bit more interesting than the last 10+ years of bro-crap-rock of cutoff shorts and pickup trucks and parties in the woods or down by the river. However, in 'Houston...' it's like he is just name-checking country culture checklist points.

But quite honestly, country got crappy WAY before snap tracks. Snap tracks have been crappy for decades no matter what the genre. The crowning clever thing that the snap track video guy did was put one over top of Allison Krauss' vocals. Almost, just almost, makes her sound like crap. And the guy writing to his pastor over a slow-jam snap track - that is quite creepy; not just because his point that the snap track is the fodder of seduction songs from 30+ years ago, but that this made it past all the gates of review and potential rejection at the record company. Was ANYONE listening to the lyrics? Or were they all slow-jam dancing in the review room as they listened?

As for great storytelling, mainstream country lost it's way decades ago. There have been some clever lyricists in country recently; one that is easy to recall is Kasey Musgraves' Space Cowboy. That chorus line is one of the best turn of meaning in a phrase in ANY music that has become popular in a really long time. It makes me smile each and every time I hear it. But, dang - it's so rare in all of pop music, let alone country which did use to stand for storytelling.

So much of modern country is just plain manufactured schlock replaying the same old stories. The stuff on the fringes is the only interesting stuff. I'll take Junior Brown telling about trouble with the law over Keith Urban's haircut every time - at least he can rock the tele/pedal/whatever that thing is that he plays. Some of what Junior does just tickles the funny bone, all the while taking virtuosity - not unlike the great Roy Clark.

The bro-rock pickup truck theme is as old as 1992, and maybe older than that. I'm pointing to Chattahoochee (sp?) by Alan Jackson. The beer party in the woods theme goes back at least that far. At least that song wasn't warmed over rock, but the lyrical theme is there. Maybe someone here more drenched in the genre can point to an earlier example than Chattahoochee?

The problem goes way beyond country however. It's all music that is tracking on any billboard charts in the top 100. You could take any genre and do the same kind of analysis that this guy did in snap track prevalence in what is now called country. It's all going to have commonalities that stand out the way factory manufactured music works.

For example, the music that I play the most live - modern worship - which charts just as high as these other genres these days - has a really disturbing trend primarily amongst some of the female singers - it's called indie girl accent or something like that. It's where words like Jesus, which most Americans pronounce something like 'Gee-Zuhs', accent on the first syllable. Well, indie girl accent turns it into an exercise of using every possible dipthong that is available, so it becomes 'Gee-ah-zoo-iss'. The word 'Good' becomes 'Goo-uh-eed'. It is all over recorded modern worship music. There's one girl, Lauren Daigle, who sounds like Adele - which is both good and bad, but she does these ridiculous dipthong exercises on so many vowels, that it distracts from the meaning of the lyrics. Adele does it some, but not as noticeable as what is happening with LD's voice.

You can hear the indie girl singer pronunciation with any of the singers on American Idol or The Voice, where the judge says something like 'you took that classic song and made it your own'. It sounds like a cat meowing.

Oddly enough, one of the persons who has been likely most ridiculed for this is not a female singer, but male pop star Sean Mendes.

Here's a scholarly article on indie girl voice with all kinds of examples:
https://www.acelinguist.com/2018/10/dialect-dissection-indie-girl-voice.html

Copycat behavior of ridiculousness is not limited to modern country snap tracking. It's everywhere, and has been part of pop since pop became a thing. Think of how silly doo-[*****] all sounds the same. Or the prevalence of the straight, non-vibrato 'aaaaah' harmony vox of Elvis' 'Hound Dog' days. Tapping guitar solos of the 80's after Eddie started it. Snare drum sounds of 80's music. Press-roll snare after Coldplay made it popular. Farty tuba basslines in Banda music. It goes on and on.


Now, one thing I did learn that I had never noticed before by watching snap-track guy's video: Dolly Parton could play a gut-string guitar with inch and a half long fingernails on her FRETTING hand. That's impressive! I had never noticed that before. I don't know about you, but my classical guitar has a table-top flat fretboard, and I'm not sure I could fret the correct note EVER with nails that long without just a little bit of radius.

Thank God for the internet and fringe country as well as Goodwill stores where I have amassed my George Strait collection (never was a fan back in the day - but like Tom Petty, he's grown on me in my older age).

Old man rant over.

Yeah, Dolly is pretty amazing I have to say. I really don't think there is anyone like her; and I think she is a combination of very intelligent, very talented, and a hard worker. I would also add in under-rated.



Those songs haven't changed. You did. And...if I understand you correctly, you will be loving Luke Combs, and artists like him down the line. Just not when they are current? TOTALLY kidding.

Here's the thing, like what you want, hate what you want. That's totally your right and I would never tell someone what they should like. My problem isn't with that.

My problem is, and always will be that someone comes here and asks a question such as what this thread was, and people feel the need to not help, but instead weigh in with why they feel it sucks. Not helpful.

Start a thread and have at how much you hate any kind of music. Be my guest. But I really feel the spirit of the forum is if and when someone asks for help, it should be about helping.

Now if you or anyone else is trying to help David from going down the evil road of this genre of music; I would understand that more. lol

For the record, I don't think David is one that can't hold his own by any means.

Also, for what it's worth, you had some great points in your response. I did enjoy reading it.

Now I'm off to listen to Eddie Rabbitt's "Love a Rainy Night" and "Elvira" from the Oak Ridge Boys, to learn more of the great story tellers of the grand days of county.

...and now back to you David. How's it going so far?

Well Caaron,

On the how is it going part, I asked if anyone had any good styles that they could recommend for song demos that would be uncluttered and not too "fancy" as a bed for some work I am doing with other writers.

We are in pitching mode and collab mode and we want some BIAB styles or track combination suggestions that are good for that. (Many styles are ingenious for production but are too fancy for pitching, as you know.)

The Luke Combs song was merely put out there as a reference of a solid, simple sound that works.

I got ONE response to the original question.

From Floyd.

His style will work well as a starting point (if you add or subtract parts) for any song from 75 to 110 BPM.

Thank you Floyd.

In the meantime, one young lady I have been working with has come up with a bunch of great song ideas we are working on, so I will have to spend most of my time working with her on carving these songs out and less time debating whether modern songs suck.

Caaron, does that answer it? Oh, I see it is time to go to church!!! (I play in a Praise Band too, Y'all.)

Peace out!!!!

****

"Hey son, if you hate modern church so much, why don't you go write your own church songs."

--George Frideric Handel's father.

"Ok I will!!"

--Handel

I agree in many industries there does seem to be a formula, especially if the process is fast and profitable, I would say selling music is not much different. Much as you or I may not like it, those songs must be making money. But playing in the game is hard and being an an arm chair quarterback is so easy.

Caaron and David, I guess it’s also about posting in this particular forum on Songwriting that kind of opens the topic wider.

David, you probably SHOULD do some of the demos with a snap track backing.

You can write songs. My understanding is that you’re trying to get Nashville folks to listen.

I would do the same exact song with a snap track and with some shuffle snare and press roll snare rhythm a third time around. Just the guitar and the singer and the snap track for version 1.

Maybe there should be a forum category called: help me mimic xyz using styles to separate out songwriting from demo producing?

Hey Belladonna, I have to admit, I'm not sure who this is for?

Could toy please clarify? Thanks

I was responding to the comments about a lot of songs today being a formula and just wanted to state that it's easy to judge and voice our personal preferences, however those artists are trying to make a living with their music and the industry is competing in the market of selling songs to those who buy or listen on the radio. I think when we look at it from a business perspective and not a personal one it makes perfect sense. I did clarify my comment a little more above. Thanks for noticing that I needed to make it more clear.

Hey Scott,

I will try one more time. Your points are very insightful and very well taken and thank you. I have plenty of finger snap loops and clap loops to last until Jesus comes back (hope it's soon too) and I will use them when it is right.

However, I believe my first original question has not been answered by anyone but Floyd and I see it may be my fault for not articulating it clearly in the beginning.

I will try again.

Since I am working with some country writers--including great female lyricists--I am asking if anyone has any FAVORITE STYLES or FAVORITE INSTRUMENT COMBINATIONS they use for demo and pitching purposes.

If you have been involved in Nashville pitches--and people on this forum have, and will know what I am talking about, instantly--there are two types of pitches that work in the real world.

1. ) A very bare bones stripped down demo. Sometimes just a guitar and voice, maybe a little extra, but nothing too fancy.

2.) Something that sounds like it was produced and mixed at Big Machine.

There is no in between.

SO, with that in mind, again, does anyone have any favorite, simple, stripped down styles they use for song pitching???

It is just a simple, simple question and I do not believe we need another forum to accommodate it. Just asking.

Does anyone have any favorite, simple styles you personally use for demoing purposes, styles that you build upon???

I am not saying I want to sound like Luke Combs on every song. I am just saying that song I referenced is a good example--ONE--of what I would consider to be a good, solid, sturdy, strong construction for a modern country song. I cannot reference 10,000 songs so I picked one.

I will now begin the process of listening to all 7,725 styles one by one until I find what I am looking for.

In the meantime, thanks to everyone for their input, I have learned a lot and now I am putting my headphones on to go sample styles and keep writing songs.

If anyone besides Floyd comes up with an answer or suggestion to the original question, thanks so much in advance.

As for being "in it" myself and the people I am talking about ARE "in it" and that's why I asked the original question.

Back to work.

Thanks guys.

David, I would gladly answer; but I don't really pick a specific style, as is. And to say what I "pick" beyond that, it's always changing. Actually, the way I do it is probably WAY more complicated than need be. I'm not a pick a sound and just let it go for the song kind of guy.

My process is more that I pick a song or group of songs I like from an artist and write down everything I hear or see they are using. Then I go to band in a box and build as much of that as I can; generate tracks, then get rid of a few instruments and add a few others that are in the list of possibilities. This is because I can't add them all into BIAB in one go.

On a side note, as many of you do, I generate the part multiple times and export them. So, my pitches, and there have NOT been many, are pretty fleshed out. In the last 2 years, I've had 2 songs be put on hold. I've had another that is sort of an odd project (not country) that will probably get used; but more for marketing of a song that already exists.

Everything gets dragged into my DAW and I pick pieces here and there from each of those and add in my own drums about 50% of the time.

This process actually takes me a fair amount of time because I don't know off the top of my head what many of the instruments sound like. I do know the banjo options pretty well now though. lol

It's usually meshing a bunch of different instruments from a lot of different styles.

The last thing I will say is, I'm not a master of BIAB. I simply put in chords, change them until I find what I like and keep changing instruments. What FJ sent you, I'm not even sure of. If he sent it to me, I would even know completely what to do. I'm guessing I just open it in BIAB; and the parts are there and you add your chords? Sorry; I'm not better at this part of it.

For the record(pun?), I just assumed you picked that song because one of the writers on it is "Rob Snyder"...are you holding out on us?

Got it! Thanks for the explanation. You did clarify, and I had missed it. Attempting to multi-task is not my thing. Great comments btw!

Caaron,

Thanks! Good stuff!! Congratulations on your holds.

And--

Daggone it man! You said you weren't going to blow my cover!!!!

My God, My God man, what have you done!!!!!!!!!

Should I tell everyone your real name is Shirley S....and that the lady in the picture is you and the man is your husband?

How would that feel, if I told everybody that man???

Try (4)(8)rest(8)(16)(16)(16)(16)
(Swing the 8s)

sure seems like this is a thread about production and style, not songwriting but whatever.

David: Maybe if you sent the link to Dr. Gannon and told him what you needed, he could get his combo to make a style. He might want a lead sheet. After all, this Luke Combs is a country musical sensation, young, and probably will be around for a while. It is "She Got the Best of me."
You already know the song I think you should run by him

Ed,

I made a mistake.

I have repeatedly stated I am not looking for only that one Luke Combs sound-alike per se. I was speaking in broad terms and I should not have done that. I caused massive confusion. I should be beaten.

I am sorry for the inconvenience I have inadvertently caused by not being more clear. I will try and correct in a new post.

My aim is not to use midi or have Dr. Gannon build another style.

Again, forget this thread ever existed. It was my mistake. I was woefully, woefully, woefully wrong. I will try here again in a sec.

Anything you are into, David, and interested in sharing, is bound to a warm reception among this group, that's for sure.

Charlie, I read the title and David’s responses about the point being to make the demo sound like Luke Combs, and to do demos that were full arrangements. Seems you thought I didn’t read any of that.

I did. Must be our definition of songwriting is different.

That’s ok.

I have to agree with you as it seems David himself feels the thread got off topic. My post was a mistake. I'm a team player and if I'm in the wrong spot at the wrong time I fix it. I've removed my posts and have a sticky note on my monitor to look closer before posting.

I find social media really hard to communicate in. You only have someone's written word which can easily get misinterpreted. Sometimes, I have clients who read an email I've sent and they'll only read the first question or paragraph and address that and fail to see the rest of what I'm asking. When we speak to someone in person we get a lot more information we see someone's facial expressions, we hear their tone of voice and we see body language. All this adds to our communication, so without all these added things it's really hard to communicate just with words. But that's our world today.

That's really unfortunate in my opinion. It was a great post.