Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,800
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,800
It’s been a decade since I can recall a good discussion of this. What is the best MIDI sound you can get for BIAB?

There are hardware MIDI synths such as the Roland Integra-7 that I use. A hardware synth might be easier to set up and use less computer resources, but it requires real-time playback to render a song. So let’s forget about the setup aspect. Concentrate on the question this way: if you wanted to buy something to play MIDI from within BIAB that sounded the absolute best, regardless of cost or convenience, what would you buy?

Note: must support music of all genres; also assumes you have a better-than-good computer.

Any ideas?


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,169
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,169
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
It’s been a decade since I can recall a good discussion of this. What is the best MIDI sound you can get for BIAB?

There are hardware MIDI synths such as the Roland Integra-7 that I use. A hardware synth might be easier to set up and use less computer resources, but it requires real-time playback to render a song. So let’s forget about the setup aspect. Concentrate on the question this way: if you wanted to buy something to play MIDI from within BIAB that sounded the absolute best, regardless of cost or convenience, what would you buy?

Note: must support music of all genres; also assumes you have a better-than-good computer.

Any ideas?


For me it would be something I don’t own and I can’t afford nor justify but most likely the full blown version of Kontakt. It provides really nice sounding instruments with lots of add on options. (I guess one could use Kontakt within BIAB. However I’d be inclined to pull the MIDI tracks into a DAW where I had more options).

My thoughts
Tony


HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home,
Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612
BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,335
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,335
Matt, for me nothing has really changed in regards to this question in the past 10 years.

BIAB is still GM and use of the more sophisticated VSTi for midi sound is still in beta testing on my machine for BIAB. As a result Coyote Forte still would be running on my system except it is not compatible with BIAB64.


Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,058
C
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
C
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,058
I once owned an Integra 7 and the sounds were awesome. I found it a little hard to setup initially and after getting it setup, I learned I had spent a lot of money on a lot of sounds I'd never use. I purchased it because of the superior sounding guitar patches compared to soft synth patches I had tried. Matt Finley was a great assistance in helping me get a working Pat file for the guitar sounds. In use, I utilized about 60 patches from a total or more than 6,000.

In contrast, I purchased SampleTank Max on sale and also had some points from previous purchases to apply and got a great soft synth and libraries at a very reasonable price and find the sounds I use to be on par with comparable Kontact or other similar software I've auditioned. Expert users are earning a living using the same SampleTank Max software but they have brains and talent to properly manipulate and articulate it at a professional level. My guess is that knowing how to expertly use a software will yield better results over having the most expensive and comprehensive software and not know how to get the most out of it.

Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 01/20/19 01:13 PM.

BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,335
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,335
Originally Posted By: Teunis
For me it would be something I don’t own and I can’t afford nor justify but most likely the full blown version of Kontakt. It provides really nice sounding instruments with lots of add on options. (I guess one could use Kontakt within BIAB. However I’d be inclined to pull the MIDI tracks into a DAW where I had more options).

My thoughts
Tony


Tony, I have "...full blown version of Kontack" and will be beta testing in the new BIAB64 in the weeks/months to come. But I suspect, like you, I am always more inclined to work at that level in my DAW.


Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,645
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,645
Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
Originally Posted By: Teunis
For me it would be something I don’t own and I can’t afford nor justify but most likely the full blown version of Kontakt. It provides really nice sounding instruments with lots of add on options. (I guess one could use Kontakt within BIAB. However I’d be inclined to pull the MIDI tracks into a DAW where I had more options).

My thoughts
Tony


Tony, I have "...full blown version of Kontack" and will be beta testing in the new BIAB64 in the weeks/months to come. But I suspect, like you, I am always more inclined to work at that level in my DAW.


Tony, I have the identical workflow, i.e. BiaB to DAW with Kontakt only in the DAW.

Dan, I have had five BiaB tracks going to five different Kontakts with no problems what-so-ever. I did that just as an experiment and will probably never use Kontakt in BiaB due to my workflow.

Matt, if I were working only in BiaB Kontakt would be my choice of synths. Mostly because of third party patches. Many can be instrument specific while some are more generic.


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114
Hi all

Well what flavour of gm do you like?
Do you want to work within the computer or are you prepared to send your midi out to an external synth and sound system, and forgo in the box rendering via vsti etc.

I in fact do both, on my big boys system I have a 24inch all in one high spec pc, sitting on the music stand on the top of and running midi to and from my Yamaha CVP 405. This gives me a high quality GM set other Yamaha midi voices over 800 of them including a full XG set and Panel voices.
All playing through the Pianos sound and speaker system.
I run a pat file in BIAB that I wrote to give me access to all of these via high bank settings and selection.

However on my workhorse system on my high spec laptop I use a midi controller keyboard this of course has no internal voices.
To maintain a good degree of compatibility between the 2 systems I use the Yamaha xg lite VSTi that I put on the forum and its pat file. As my default vst
This gives me a fairly good set of matching voices for roughing out and making quick
On board renders
So I guess what I am saying is try to use as near midi vst or external as you hope to finally hear the song through.(pre rendering to audio if at all!)

Yes I know all gm is supposed to be the same, but believe me the same gm set on Yamaha , Korg , or Roland sound quite different for the same patch number.
In the end its down to personal choice and to a certain extent what you have got used to from your own keyboard.
Most of all have fun and enjoy your music.
Mike


BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro
Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth
Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt

http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,784
R
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
R
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,784
For me it's TTS in BiaB and better synths in the DAW


Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,800
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,800
I should have made it more clear that of course we can use hardware or soft synths in a DAW. I’m interested here in what you use in BIAB without going to a DAW (or RealBand). Thanks.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 274
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 274
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I should have made it more clear that of course we can use hardware or soft synths in a DAW. I’m interested here in what you use in BIAB without going to a DAW (or RealBand). Thanks.


Inside of BIAB I use Halion 6. Once outside Kontakt, Sample Tank and many of the instruments included in Ableton.

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,099
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,099
I've used TTS-1 even before returning to Band-in-a-Box in 2011. I have TTS-1 set up as my default soft synth in both the 32 and 64 bit versions of Band-in-a-Box.

I considered "building" a high quality instrument set to use in Sforzando but lost interest. It would take a lot of work and what I already have is acceptable.

The multi timbrel, gm compatible model seems to be dying out in computer software. I don't think the demand is there. Either that or no one wants to pay what it would cost to develop to put together a group of instruments of equal quality to the single instrument developers like Kontakt, IK Multimedia or Steinburg.

The approach to providing voices to midi instruments that +++ MultiTrack Studio +++ takes is unique. The instruments are modeled so they occupy little storage space. The program has a built-in general midi compatible instrument collection that contains over 100 instruments including a drum kit.

I presume the best sounding general midi compatible instruments available at a reasonable price would be an inexpensive consumer keyboard by Casio, Ketron, Korg, Roland, Yamaha or no name. Only keyboard manufacturers seem to be interested in providing multi timbrel instruments. There is a lot of competition for the few customers that desire multi timbrel capability so pricing is extremely competitive. Heck, even Creative has quit including midi ports or instruments with their Soundblaster audio cards or add-on software. Professional audio cards have never included instruments that I know of. I don't know of any current professional or consumer software solutions for gm2, multi-timbrel compatible midi players. Single voice instruments have won this contest.

Last edited by Jim Fogle; 01/20/19 04:55 PM. Reason: Added final thought.

Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1109) RB (Build 3) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H2, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,784
R
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
R
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,784
As I said earlier I use TTS as well I use BiaB as a scratch pad I never finish the songs there., unless it is a simple live song to play. I prefer to mix down in a DAW


Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,796
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,796
GM, a plague or a blessing?

I have tried quite a lot over the years. First one that i really liked was an Soundblaster Audigy ZS 2. You can put your own GM2 sfz files in it's memory banks too. Had a hardware breakout box with spdif and also volume potted headphone jack. Alas only PCI, not present any more in my latest computer. Even found x64 drivers at some point unavailable from Creative then, made by 'David', an Audigy fan. Sound quality was quite good. Bought a PCIe to PCI riser even to get it working, but never tried it sofar.

I used Hypersonic 2 for quite a while after that, sounded v better than Coyote Forte, and was GM2. All the Roland stuff and TTS etc i never really liked, especially the sounds chosen mainly. Japanese taste for sounds i guess.

For over a year i have been using Halion 3 now, and for GM2 i never found anything IMO 'better' sounding all over. But for you (Matt) as Jazzer you might not like the loops for some samples like saxes. I have bought Sampletank and Omnisynth 2 even, quite OK if it works, but due all those hassles with that friggin' IK licensing every time again, and the crummy way to get GM working properly i gave up on IK all together. I have no experience with sForzando .. you?

Alas for Halion 3 and Hypersonic 2 you'll need an eLicenser etc .... F

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 280
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 280
Fiddler, I've tried the Halion SE, but even though it was perfectly installed, I've never been able to make a sound. I ended up disinstalling it, as being a free product, there's no support for it.


Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
Milano, Italy
https://soundcloud.com/theodore-kojak/tracks
Hy-Bro Test Sound Files
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,986
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,986
I use the edirol hypercvanvas which is the same as the TTS. In a reply to a previous post Peter Gannon said that PG Music balance their midi styles on the Roland sounds which is what the TTS is.

And as its free - see the no brainer post above about getting it with the free download of cakewalk it seems to me the best solution for a soft synth in BIAB

I've also got the coyote and the forte and the TTS sounds are the best - subject to the bug that means one kick drum does not respond to velocity changes but that's easily remedied in the BIAB settings adn I can't hear the difference in a mix

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 68
R
Enthusiast
Offline
Enthusiast
R
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 68
I recently dug out my old version of Native Intruments Bandstand and, with the help of jBridge, have it working in BIAB 64. To my ears better than most of the other freely available synths like TTS1 IMHO. smile

Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,838
Veteran
Online Happy
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,838
Originally Posted By: ryclark
I recently dug out my old version of Native Intruments Bandstand and, with the help of jBridge, have it working in BIAB 64. To my ears better than most of the other freely available synths like TTS1 IMHO. smile


Yes I have Bandstand working on windows 7 32 bit and like it, haven't tried it on windows 10 64 bit yet, I think I tried it, but couldn't get it to work, so just wondering if its windows 10 you have it on?

At the moment Halion is probably my favourite default synth.


Musiclover

My music https://www.youtube.com/user/donegalprideofall

Windows 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Band in a Box 2024, Cubase 13, Cakewalk and far too many VST plugins that I probably don't need or will ever use smile
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,784
R
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
R
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,784
I have never been able to get the Halion 3 free version to make one single sound. I can’t even find a sound library in it.

Last edited by RobH; 01/21/19 03:30 AM.

Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114


Hi all
Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle

I presume the best sounding general midi compatible instruments available at a reasonable price would be an inexpensive consumer keyboard by Casio, Ketron, Korg, Roland, Yamaha or no name. Only keyboard manufacturers seem to be interested in providing multi timbrel instruments. There is a lot of competition for the few customers that desire multi timbrel capability so pricing is extremely competitive.


I am still with Jim on this in my set up as above i get over 800 top quality midi voices to use in BIAB, plus i can use the 6000 BIAB styles played through to my Clavinova audio line input against a predefined chord progression SGU from BIAB and play live over the top and record in the clav to wav including mic a VH controlled by BIAB root chord output on chanel 9
Cant ask for more.
Mike


BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro
Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth
Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt

http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,080
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,080
When using BiaB with one GM synth, I use the Ketron SD2.

I prefer external hardware sound modules. Unfortunately I'm not wealthy enough to buy every one available, so my experience is very limited. I bought the SD2 on the recommendation of an old BiaB forum member, Mac (remember Mac?). I'm glad I listened to him.

The SD2 has a very good GM sound set. All the sounds I've used range from very good to excellent.

My experience with sound modules, is that there is another that sounds better with one particular sound, but not as good with another.

Plus what I think is an excellent sound might not be your idea of an excellent sound. If I had a tenor sax voice that sounded like Stan Getz and you wanted one that sounded like John Coltrane, the Getz voice might not be good for you.

So it's hard to make a recommendation. I have over a half dozen external synths, some with thousands of voices, but when I go for a General MIDI sound set, I use the SD2

Insights and incites by Notes


Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!

If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.

A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."

"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."

"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."

Happy Easter! Holiday Hours...

2024 is well underway - it's already Easter Weekend!

Our Customer Service hours this weekend are:

Friday, March 29: 8-4
Saturday, March 30: 8-4
Sunday, March 31: closed

Regular hours resume Monday, April 1st - no joke!

Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created a video to help you learn more about the Volume Automation options in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Volume Automation

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#volume-automation

Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created this short video to explain Audio Input Monitoring within Band-in-a-Box® 2024, and included some tips & troubleshooting details too!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Audio Input Monitoring

3:17: Tips
5:10: Troubleshooting

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#audio-input-monitoring

Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!

We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!

Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics81,400
Posts732,555
Members38,443
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
danielsk, Mark Morgan, zagrajbarke, Ernest J, Izzy
38,442 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 199
Al-David 132
DC Ron 116
rsdean 84
dcuny 83
Today's Birthdays
(charlie), WobblyGstring
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5