Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
There has been a lot of discussion on here about the inability to read music, and the inference that one's inability to do so was a crippling aspect in writing, performing, or singing music. The following is a only a partial list of those who were thus "crippled". Musicians/ Composers who couldn't read music. Elvis Presley The Beatles Jimi Hendrix Eric Clapton Tony Iommi Michael Jackson Eddie Van Halen Tommy Emanuel Stevie Ray Vaughan Jimmy Page Frank Sinatra, Sylvia Fine Barbra Streisand Paul Simon Harry Lillis 'Bing'Crosby, Jr. Miles Davis Irving Berlin Chet Baker Roland Kirk Django Reinhardt Art Tatum Wes Montgomery Buddy Rich Joe Pass Tom Petty Lindsey Buckingham Tom Morello Mike Campbell Stevie Wonder B.B. King Of course, this is only a partial list. Regards, Bob
Last edited by 90 dB; 01/25/19 05:10 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 824
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 824 |
Paul Simona - Up dislektics I guess Ray Charles couldn't either.
Chris
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114 |
Hi
Don’t know about that Sinbad. I knew a blind man that played piano and I seem to recall that he had some Braille music scores / lessons Mike
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,798
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,798 |
Miles Davis should not be on that list.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13,977
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13,977 |
Yeah, he went to Julliard I think. Saw an interview with him a while back after a Kind of Blue listening. But you can replace him with many many many more who didn’t read. I recently read that Bela Fleck arranged orchestral parts by humming or singing what he wanted to different players!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,089
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,089 |
I just finished reading "Skydog", the Duane Allman story. Interesting read, highly recommended for fans of the Allman Brothers.
Before he started the Allman brothers with Greg he was a top session player, played on tracks from Wilson Pickett, Aretha Franklin, Boz Scaggs, and many, many more.
He was self taught and couldn't read, but that didn't stop him getting all the session work he could handle.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
Miles Davis should not be on that list. He did attend Julliard for one semester, but hated it. So you're half right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Juilliard_School_peopleRegards, Bob
Last edited by 90 dB; 01/25/19 04:19 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,838
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,838 |
Impressive List, but I think if given the choice most people would opt to be able to be good sight readers, including me. I mean its not exactly a feather in your hat not to be able to read. Or maybe a person can delude themselves that they are in good company if they can't.
Last edited by musiclover; 01/25/19 05:53 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,080
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,080 |
There are always exceptions to the rule, and the exceptions do not disprove the rule.
For every famous musician who cannot read music, you will find hundreds who can. Plus if the learned to read music and music theory they would have gotten to their highest peak sooner and surpassed what they could do without those skills.
Plus your list is padded.
Irving Berlin could read music, but only in one key. He had a transposing piano so he could play in any key.
Ray Charles could read Braille music. I played with a blind person who could, he would have to pass his hand over the page, and what he passed his had over had to be committed to memory so he cold play both hands on the piano.
How about Frank Sinatra? Barbra Striesand? Bing Crosby? Bing Crosby? Michael Jackson? How many singers read music? (Not enough IMO).
Miles Davis could read, but could not sight-read (there is a difference) and I suppose others on the list might be the same way.
I always get amused at people who try to defend not reading music and/or not learning theory.
To balance your list, the entire semi-pro Space Coast Orchestra is much bigger than that list and they all can read.
The Atlantic Classical Orchestra is bigger than that list and they can read.
The local high school band has more members than that list and they all can read.
Insights and incites by Notes
Last edited by Notes Norton; 01/25/19 04:52 AM.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,089
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,089 |
"For every famous musician who cannot read music, you will find hundreds who can."
Depends on the genre.
I would guess that if you are talking about popular music, or blues music, or roots music in general, it would be for every famous musician who can read music, you will find hundreds who can't.
Last edited by BlueAttitude; 01/25/19 05:00 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,945
PG Music Staff
|
PG Music Staff
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,945 |
This is definitely an interesting list. Thanks for sharing.
Cheers, Ember
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13,977
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13,977 |
"I always get amused at people who try to defend not reading music and/or not learning theory. " Well, I'm glad to bring some amusement into your life In actuality I don't defend them as IMO they need no defense and I'm sure they feel the same way. Our musical mentor, grammy nominated, whom we played and recorded with for many years couldn't read and the conversation never came up. I assuredly do not denigrate those millions who read, know theory and have richer lives for it nor would I laugh at those who feel pressured to defend not having chosen that path. I don't think it's a numbers game, i.e, how many can vs how many can't..particularly since we are talking only about those who are well known. As Black Hawk said "every man must choose his own path." Mine was to play in several bands with some great musicians (some of who read and knew a ton of theory) and have decades of fun w/o having the time or inclination or discipline to learn theory. But nary a regret! Cheers. Bud
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 464
Journeyman
|
Journeyman
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 464 |
I think the discussion came from a post about hearing a song and playing the chords. Some of the replies, including mine, talked about playing experience and ear training. Those are not the same as reading music or sight reading (also different, as Bob said).
If you are going to play an instrument or sing complex music, it is much easier if you at least understand scale degrees.
One thing I have noticed is that some musicians who are great readers don't improvise well.
I don't think anyone said a musician is crippled by not being able to read. At the same time, more ideas and opportunities are open to you if you can.
2b
i5-3210 laptop. Win 10 Home. 2.5ghz, 64 bit. 6gb RAM. Focusrite Scarlet 2i2.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
Paul Simona - Up dislektics I guess Ray Charles couldn't either. Copy/Paste error. Fixed. Regards, Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
Impressive List, but I think if given the choice most people would opt to be able to be good sight readers, including me. I mean its not exactly a feather you in your hat not to be able to read. Or maybe a person can delude themselves that they are in good company if they can't. I think that list includes some pretty "good company", and I'm not a delusional person. Regards, Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,294
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,294 |
I knew SOMEBODY would Google that as if it makes a difference to the schlubs who want to play for the old folk "down to th' VF Dubya".
That list isn't even close to the discussion we are having here. There are what, 73 gajillion people in the USA who play music and you think listing 20 EXCEPTIONAL exceptions matters?
How about this scenario? Somebody hears you play in a club and says "I want this guy for my next session." Their people contact your people. Your people set you up with a time and date. You show up with your favorite guitar, sit at your stool, and they hand you music. And the session master counts you in. If you can't do that, learn how to sight read or you'll never get another session call.
That scenario isn't copy music or improvising 32 bars of blues solo. Pick whichever example from your list that you like, and in every case they had to HEAR somebody play something and then they learned it from there. In commercial session work, there is no song yet. You create it. You create that rhythm bed for the solo players to solo over. How many of those Wrecking Crew guys do you think couldn't read? (Um... the answer is "none".) Unless they were working for Brian Wilson who spent as long as 6 months on a song, they had to get it right NOW so they could wrap in an hour and get to the next session. But music wasn't their hobby or their 4 time a month side job. It was how they paid for mansions.
Only those who can't read will cast aspersions at those who do like the non readers here do. That is classic "denial by overcompensation" (like presenting Google's list as your evidence). "I can't do it. Thus it must not be important." Or, "I can't drive stick. So stick shift must be stupid." I love to be able to hand people charts that I wrote and they can read and say "Play this." And if they are good, 3 takes at most and they are done.
Also remember that solos are NOT laying in rhythm beds. You included BB King. His virtuosity was his tone and his lack of wordiness. Simple lines played with taste and tone. Have you noticed he couldn't play while he sang? What he did didn't call for reading.
Interesting from your Googled list is that there are several players on there that the world considered "the greatest" and I have absolutely no love for. Eddie Van Halen was all flash. Hammer-on solos seeing how many notes he could fit into his solo window but not a good rhythm player. And so many dumb kids thought he invented the right hand on the neck technique because they are young and know nothing about music. That's been around since flamenco guitar was born in what, the stone age? Jimmy Page? Loud, tasteless, solos that were uninspired and told no story, often with poor timing, mostly played with toys. ("Did you see that? He used a BOOOOOOOW!!!!") Likely why he was 3rd to the dance with The Yardbirds. Tom Petty? Seriously? If he was all that, why did he have a guitar player in his band? And he couldn't sing AT ALL. Miles Davis? The scat and bebop he did COULDN'T be written. Parker too. And Gillespie. When you have a guy like Parker who was proud to say he never played the same thing twice, what IS there for him to read?
What do you think of Dream Theater? Think THEY can read? Those Berklee educated guys? The DRUMMER reads music.
I will strongly and passionately disagree for the rest of my life with anybody who says reading does not matter. Again, most of you who say it doesn't, can't. I agree with the Notes Norton Notion that the people who reached skill plateaus without reading likely took much longer to get there than they would have had they been able to read.
Last edited by eddie1261; 01/25/19 05:43 AM. Reason: I misspelled "shift" Missed the F, so....
I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,638
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,638 |
From my experience I have noted that those hobbyists who could read music played music much later in life than those who could not read music. That is when ones music genre went out of style they put down their instruments.
I'd surmise that those pros who could not read music were surrounded but those that could read music, either with session musicians or for transcription of what they played for copyright publishing purposes. YMMV
But,as already noted, you do not need to read music to produce good music.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,838
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,838 |
I know we are talking about proper score sheet music here, but even at its basic level a guitar tab of an introduction to a song or solo, is very basic reading in itself.
And who hasn't been helped by that at times?
Think of the intro's or solo's you know now, that was helped by reading a guitar tab, and maybe would be impossible to learn by ear otherwise?
At the minute I have just got the hang of the Blue Danube on the guitar by printing out the music from biab, and listening to it.Though its a simple enough tune, I would never have got it note perfect by ear alone, ear is simply not good enough.
Saying all that....I will never be a proper reader, because I am not dedicated enough to learn, too old and poor eyesight ever to be a good reader, but having a listen and having the sheet music available slowly allows me to pick my way though it.
Last edited by musiclover; 01/25/19 06:31 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
I just finished reading "Skydog", the Duane Allman story. Interesting read, highly recommended for fans of the Allman Brothers.
Before he started the Allman brothers with Greg he was a top session player, played on tracks from Wilson Pickett, Aretha Franklin, Boz Scaggs, and many, many more.
He was self taught and couldn't read, but that didn't stop him getting all the session work he could handle. Well, you'd better tell that to Eddie! Regards, Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
"Irving Berlin could read music, but only in one key. He had a transposing piano so he could play in any key." Once again, half-right. "The composer of countless beloved standards and show tunes including “Alexander’s Ragtime Band,” “White Christmas,” and “God Bless America” couldn’t read or write music." "Berlin boasted of his ignorance of music. As early as 1915 he said that since he knew little about the rules of songwriting, he was free to violate them, “and the result was [often] an original twist.” https://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2664/if-irving-berlin-could-not-read-or-write-music-how-did-he-compose/Regards, Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®
Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®
Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!
We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!
Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.
You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.
See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.
Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®
New with the DAW Plugin Version 6.0, released with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows: the Reaper® Panel!
This new panel offers built-in specific support for the Reaper® DAW API allowing direct transfer of Band-in-a-Box® files to/from Reaper® tracks!
When you run the Plugin from Reaper®, there is a panel to set the following options:
-BB Track(s) to send: This allows you to select the Plugin tracks that will be sent Reaper.
-Destination Reaper Track: This lets you select the destination Reaper track to receive media content from the Plugin.
-At Bar: You can select a bar in Reaper where the Plugin tracks should be placed.
-Start Below Selected Track: This allows you to place the Plugin tracks below the destination Reaper track.
-Overwrite Reaper Track: You can overwrite previous content on the destination Reaper track.
-Move to Project Folder: With this option, you can move the Plugin tracks to the Reaper project folder.
-Send Reaper Instructions Enable this option to send the Reaper Instructions instead of rendering audio tracks, which is faster.
-Render Audio & Instructions: Enable this option to generate audio files and the Reaper instructions.
-Send Tracks After Generating: This allows the Plugin to automatically send tracks to Reaper after generating.
-Send Audio for MIDI Track: Enable this option to send rendered audio for MIDI tracks.
-Send RealCharts with Audio: If this option is enabled, Enable this option to send RealCharts with audio.
Check out this video highlighting the new Reaper®-specific features: Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Video
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,394
Posts732,478
Members38,441
|
Most Online2,537 Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|