|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,563
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,563 |
Normalization is a topic we don't discuss much, here.
I recently had to remaster backing tracks to accomodate the heavy bass on a new (to me) power speaker. Naturally, the low end was turned down with EQ. What came as a surprise, though, was the overall improvement in the tracks after normalization.
What's up with this?
Last edited by edshaw; 01/23/19 06:18 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,284
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,284 |
There's lots of opinions about using the 'normalization' tool. I'll let others opine on the benefits/downside to using it as a habit to correct poor recording technique/skills or recording levels. (which I don't recommend at all) Personally.... I've been recording a long time and I don't think I've ever used the 'normalization' tool to fix a track prior to mixddown. If an individual track was so poorly recorded/rendered and using volume envelopes wasn't a viable fix then yes....one may have to use it. Or....my preferred choice would be do it over it at all possible. I view using normalization as a tourniquet....last resort only. But...I understand it's just another tool that is in our arsenal. I'm sure others with chime in....and you got a bump.  But....that's just me...back to it.
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 01/23/19 07:18 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,076
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,076 |
Just master or at least use a limiter for whatever levels you deem appropriate for the listening platform or your own preference. My choice, Ozone, lets me use a reference song if needed. I’ve never normalized a song. FWIW, etc., etc.
Bud
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,988
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,988 |
when i've transferred files to wav to burn to a cd i normalise the files in NERO to make sure all tracks play at the same volume on the cd
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,169
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,169 |
There's lots of opinions about using the 'normalization' tool. I'll let others opine on the benefits/downside to using it as a habit to correct poor recording technique/skills or recording levels. (which I don't recommend at all) Personally.... I've been recording a long time and I don't think I've ever used the 'normalization' tool to fix a track prior to mixddown. If an individual track was so poorly recorded/rendered and using volume envelopes wasn't a viable fix then yes....one may have to use it. Or....my preferred choice would be do it over it at all possible. I view using normalization as a tourniquet....last resort only. But...I understand it's just another tool that is in our arsenal. I'm sure others with chime in....and you got a bump. But....that's just me...back to it. I tend to normalise tracks coming from BIAB as they come in pretty high and the combined tracks put the end result at close to 0db which is way over the levels I look for. The end result leaves little or no head room for mixing or mastering. Sure I could simply pull everything down with volume faders but I prefer to start with all faders at 0db. I usually normalise all the tracks to -10db or so depending on the number of tracks this prior to mixing has an end result of about -6db (speaking of RealTracks only) which is a nice place to start from. I then mix and try to leave the end result at -6db or so this then makes the “Mastering” stage much easier and more flexible. As I understand it when recording a good place to start is to have your tracks recorded below -12db in a sense that is what I am doing. My thoughts Tony
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home,
Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612
BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,326
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,326 |
Normalization, in a nut shell is essentially amplification that looks at the entire song, finds the highest peak in the song, and then brings that peak up to the level you pre-selected. It also amplifies everything else by the same amount which essentially keeps everything else linear and in proper perspective, to the peak. The amount of increase in volume you hear depends greatly on how close the peak was to the selected level you chose. Everything gets raised by the same amount and the dynamic range is maintained as per the original.
If your song is well produced, the amount of increase can be zero with normalization. IN other words, it does nothing. This is actually the desired result.
Compression also raises levels but it tends to decrease the dynamic range between the low parts and the high parts.
Personally, I don't have anything against it and use it in practically every project most often as the last step after exporting the file. I have used it a time or two in the past when importing BB/RB tracks that were weak. I've learned how to set my recording levels correctly so I don't get the flatline, weak, audio tracks any more. If you find yourself recording weak thin line tracks.... back up and regroup and figure out what you're doing wrong and fix that problem.
The danger with using Normalize is that it raises everything by the same amount. This is problematic when you have a track of whatever, that was recorded poorly. You have a thin line for audio and when you normalize it to plump it up and get a reasonable volume, you also get an equivalent increase in the noise floor as well. Do that with several tracks and suddenly you have a mess in your project.
I do use it after I export and trim the project. It's the last step in the wave process for me. I like to see if I can squeeze anything else out of the wave without compression.
Used properly, it's a great tool to have available.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,284
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,284 |
[quote=chulaivet1966]My thoughts,,,Tony I also keep my individual tracks at -10 to -12 db and have done so as long as I can remember. (NOTE: I don't remember what I had for breakfast sometimes :)) After I get a good stereo mix of all tracks I throw on a mastering compressor, check volume level again and that's it. I've just never chosen to use the normalize tool in my workflow. Again....it has it's purpose for when one chooses to employ it. Back to it....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 01/23/19 02:29 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,563
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,563 |
Thanks for that good info and the leads to more. It gives me something to do.
I might have gotten into a bad habit of recording too high, thinking that was the key to good Sound Cloud level. That doesn't work with this new stage monitor.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,563
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,563 |
All righty, then. Studied the comments, did a little research, and processed one of my favorites from start to finish using what I had learned. Hallelujah! It sounded better that anything I've done. Remember, part of the problem was working to this monster of a monitor, which amplifies everything.
Can't thank all of you enough for the crash course. And, oh yes, ditched the normalization and used compression sparingly and only on the first round of Reaper tracks. Also, worked in WAV until the final render, which was 256 MP3.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,284
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,284 |
All righty, then. Studied the comments, did a little research, and processed one of my favorites from start to finish using what I had learned. Hallelujah! It sounded better that anything I've done. Remember, part of the problem was working to this monster of a monitor, which amplifies everything.
Can't thank all of you enough for the crash course. And, oh yes, ditched the normalization and used compression sparingly and only on the first round of Reaper tracks. Also, worked in WAV until the final render, which was 256 MP3. Chuckle..... In case I wasn't totally clear in my response I throw a mastering compressor on the stereo track itself after mix down....not on the individual tracks. Should my stereo mix have a peaking issue at some point I'd reduce the stereo track by a 1-2 db or so or stick a limiter on the stereo track. Although....I've not had that problem at all with my workflow. IMO....I think many of us can get in the habit of overthinking things given the plethora of tools available to us. We start to think we need to employ them all. The better the individual tracks are performed and recorded....the less tools are necessary. There's many ways to achieve the same result we are all looking for. We just find the technique/work flow/DAW program that works for us personally. Glad to hear you made some progress with your new song. Carry on....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 01/26/19 07:14 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,563
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,563 |
Thanks chulaivet. This current phase, as you know, came about on account of what I now recognize was a failure in the way of levels and use of normalization and compression.
After laying the BB renders into Reaper, I'm using the mixer to set the peaks at -18, not counting the drums, which are lowered on the timeline.
I find the master mixed WAV that comes out of BB was high. Normally it is muted anyway, in favor of mixing the other tracks. So, understanding that helped. BB produces a strong mix. How many users break it down? Probably most of them are on this forum. The problem with normalization is that the user has already set the levels. Compression makes it louder, but that's what volume control knobs are for, eh?
The third leg for me is rediscovering the MP3 format. My understanding of it goes back to a misunderstanding posted on line during the early days of iPod. It turns out, the
real value in MP3 just may be that it masks sounds we didn't want to, or couldn't, hear in the first place.
Last edited by edshaw; 01/26/19 12:06 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,284
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,284 |
Thanks chulaivet. This current phase, as you know, came about on account of what I now recognize was a failure in the way of levels and use of normalization and compression. I would say compression doesn't necessarily always make things louder although our aural receptors do perceive it that way. It evens out the peaks and lower volumes to balance out a track. Of course, how one adjusts compression settings comes into play also. When I've exported .wav from BIAB I've had to tame the file volume also on occasion. No big deal....just part of paying attention to track details. Sometimes a limiter is more applicable for a track than compression....or both. I've become comfortable with -10 > -12 db for dry individual tracks (Sonar X3) but that's not to say -18 isn't OK to. Enjoy the journey....always something new to learn for ALL of us....all the time. Back to it....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 01/26/19 08:43 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 7,753
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 7,753 |
This exactly the same process I use Herb.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,629
Posts735,238
Members38,522
| |
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean