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Is this no longer enforced?


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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I would think so unless the songs are in the public domain.

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I'm not sure anything much is "enforced" on the board other than through peer pressure.


Cheers
rayc
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You can link to a youtube cover version you create on the I Heard BIAB On Youtube forum. Peter said in a post on there long ago that was okay.

But the user showcase forum is only for originals unless you have a license or the song is public domain.

Most people here follow the rules so it rarely comes up.

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My understanding of PD is, after a number of years, the rights to use the song are turned over to the public. In the jurisdiction, We all own the song.

Last edited by edshaw; 02/09/19 06:32 AM.

Link: www.soundcloud.com/ed_shaw (Feel Free to Use)
https://drooble.com/edward.shaw/hymn/index.htm
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Originally Posted By: edshaw
My understanding of PD is, after a number of years, the rights to use the song are turned over to the public. In the jurisdiction, We all own the song.


Many, many years.

Most countries are life of the author PLUS 70 years.

The USA in a nutshell:

Life + 70 years (works published since 1978 or unpublished works)[228] 95 years from publication or 120 years from creation whichever is shorter (anonymous works, pseudonymous works, or works made for hire, published since 1978)[229]

95 years from publication for works published 1964–77; 28 (if copyright not renewed) or 95 years from publication for works published 1924–63 (Copyrights prior to 1924 have expired, not including copyrights on sound recordings fixed prior to February 15, 1972, covered only under state laws.)[


You can find my music at:
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Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Yeah, what Herb said.

Way too many people taking liberties with the "we all own this" mentality. I don't like it.

If you are a writer it is not a "we all own this" scenario--the writer owns it, at least well past the point when they are dead, as Herb pointed out.

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Originally Posted By: David Snyder


Yeah, what Herb said.

Way too many people taking liberties with the "we all own this" mentality. I don't like it.

If you are a writer it is not a "we all own this" scenario--the writer owns it, at least well past the point when they are dead, as Herb pointed out.


And this is, indeed, the song WRITERS forum. Not the song RE-DOERS forum. There should be a separate forum for all these covers of public domain songs. I know I can scroll past, so don't tell me that, but I don't care about redos of old music. I want to hear YOUR original ideas.


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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Originally Posted By: eddie1261
And this is, indeed, the song WRITERS forum. Not the song RE-DOERS forum. There should be a separate forum for all these covers of public domain songs. I know I can scroll past, so don't tell me that, but I don't care about redo's of old music. I want to hear YOUR original ideas.


That's how I see it but my opinion means nothing.

Hmmm.....I do see a potential conundrum though.
What if I decide to do a cover of my own recent BIAB song upload?
Which forum should be graced with my masterpiece. smile (I'm just funnin' ya)

On a serious note....do carry on.

Last edited by chulaivet1966; 02/14/19 07:09 AM.
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This calls for a ruling by the forum owners. The introduction reads,

"The songs must be originals, no copyrighted or "cover" songs. You must have all of the rights to the songs."

My opinion, this leaves room for original compositions and interpretations of songs whose rights are owned by the musicians. Public domain material qualifies on that basis.
Common sense tells me PGM's interest would be to protect the interests of copyright holders and stay away from any infringement claims. I am careful to have copies of the original sheet music for any song I work with or post. Not everyone might be this careful. Therefore, there some risk, as there is with anything, encouraging public domain song posting. For that reason and a couple of others, I would understand perfectly if PD songs were excluded. Still, to claim something has been done that is wrong is absurd. The idea that posting songs that someone might not want to hear is some kind of imposition or creates a hardship is incredulous.
As far as the ownership issue is concerned, David is exactly right on that. At issue is the right to use, not ownership.I stand corrected on that bad choice of words picked up on the internet, while in no way conceding some poet of composer has been hurt by my use of songs that have both survived the test of time and have become part of the culture that transcends private property law.
Here's a fairly good explanation of fair use:
https://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/public-domain/welcome/


One of the really great things about the forum is the technical aspects of recording and home producing. Another thing is the discussion of the software, itself. Another are the videos and instructions. Are these topics included in "no business being here," category of the song writers?



Last edited by edshaw; 02/15/19 06:52 AM.

Link: www.soundcloud.com/ed_shaw (Feel Free to Use)
https://drooble.com/edward.shaw/hymn/index.htm
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Personally...
I don't mind listening to a "redo"...
I just like hearing what others are doing with Biab...
I find it mentally stimulating & ...
I enjoy listening to their creations....
So keep 'em coming!


Jim
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Unfortunately I am not clever nor imaginative enough to write songs. I write something and to me it always sounds like something else, even if only very loosely. However, I fully understand PGs position on the original material type rule. The last thing that PG Music would want is a reputation (let alone legal issues) for promoting the stealing of copywrited material. That is the way I see it and I think that is a good thing.

Tony

Last edited by Teunis; 02/15/19 12:34 AM.

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I've redone a number of my own so it must be an infringement ? LOL

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Originally Posted By: furry
I've redone a number of my own so it must be an infringement ? LOL


Only if you didn't pay yourself royalties. LOL!!!

My point is that this is the Song WRITERS forum. People are free to do ALL the covers they like. I just think, again it's my opinion and you are free to disagree (and most of you DO disagree with anything that comes from me), that covers, public domain or not, don't belong in a forum for WRITERS. That is not writing anything. There is another place to post links to covers.

Let me post the start of this new book I am "writing".

"It was the best of times. It was the worst of times."

Dickens wrote that in 1859. It MUST be public domain by now, so I am free to "write" it and claim it is my own work, right? I mean, he's been dead for like 150 years and it's not like it's going to get back to him.....

That is one of my favorite books. Though I have to admit that before I read it I thought it was about Minneapolis and St. Paul....


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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Well, all right, Eddie. If you feel that strongly about it, I'll refrain from posting my versions of public domain hymns, none of which I intended to pass off as my original composition. I have no interest in debating the finer points of copyright definitions which could develop into something that might discourage, among others, my friends here in the forum, to whom I remain indebted for countless incidents of feedback and knowledge provision.


Link: www.soundcloud.com/ed_shaw (Feel Free to Use)
https://drooble.com/edward.shaw/hymn/index.htm
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Unfortunately I have to disagree with Eddie on his assumption the Users Showcase is a strict songwriting forum for several reasons. First and most importantly, his definition is so restrictive there are some of my original songs that didn't qualify to be posted. I have had several forum members 'cover' my original works and they released the song here in the Users Showcase. Other forum members have done the same with other forum members. By every definition, these songs are covers and do not qualify under Eddie's restrictive code. A cover is not constrained to a commercial hit song. I am aware that in the past some forum members have corroborated with friends or family and used BIAB to create the instrumental backing tracks of their song and posted these on the Users Showcase with the writers permission. Again, this falls short using Eddie's narrow and restrictive interpretation of proper use of the Users Showcase.

Second, It has been my understanding the entire time I have been a forum member that if one had all the rights to a song, it could be posted in the Users Showcase. Over the years, several members obtained legal license to commercially and privately record and release copyrighted material and some of those releases made it to the Users Showcase. When it has been questioned in the past, every time, inclusion of the license number was sufficient to stop any assertion the song was either improperly or illegally posted against standing Users Showcase regulations.

Third, it is my understanding the entire time I have been a forum member the Users Showcase is a song forum and not a songwriting forum. It is to showcase members use of PGMusic software in their music production. There are at least three other forums on the PGMusic site that direct focus more toward unauthorized covers of copyrighted material or songwriting subject that buttress my position in my opinion. My assessment is that Eddie's assumption and decision the Users Showcase is a songwriting forum is incorrect and not supported by the listed regulations nor past enforcement and acceptance of posted songs.


Fourth, public domain songs have always been considered the BIAB artist has all rights to the song and publishing them in the Users Showcase has been accepted the entire time I have been a forum member.

Fifth: Eddie posted this in the wrong forum......

Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 02/18/19 10:57 AM.

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David Copperfield Snyder

A Novel

by David Copperfield Snyder


CHAPTER 1.

I AM BORN. Whether I shall turn out to be the hero of my own life, or whether that station will be held by anybody else, given that the umbilical cord was wrapped around my neck at the hour of my birth, one stroke past midnight, on a Friday, the 13th, in an asylum or orphanage where echoed forth the pitiful cries that I should be put out of my misery before I had a chance to suffer the outrageous pains this life has to offer, these pages must show, if I am to prove, with any magnitude aforethought, that the afterbirth accompanying my arrival was but a foretaste of the horrendous hurricanes and other natural tragedies that were to follow ad lib and ad nauseum until the apocalyptic arrival of my teenage years, in which Satan himself, sensing the danger, flew to safer grounds in a distant village. But, not to belabor the point, I should remark again that to begin my life with the beginning of my life, I should record that I was born (as I have been informed and believe) on a Friday, just past twelve o'clock at night on a thirteenth day. It was remarked that the clock began to strike, and I began to cry, simultaneously, and then I thus began to compose whistling melodies with my mouth that one day would become the grand corpus of my musical body of work, largely to be exercised through a program called Band in a Box, that had not yet been invented, but was at the moment being conceived of by a certain Dr. Peter Gannon, for my sole amusement, as he would prove to be a key benefactor in the 7,427 pages to follow.

--End Chapter One--

David Copperfield Snyder
by David Copperfield Snyder


Public Domain

Dedicated to "Eddie"

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Originally Posted By: edshaw
Well, all right, Eddie. If you feel that strongly about it, I'll refrain from posting my versions of public domain hymns, none of which I intended to pass off as my original composition. I have no interest in debating the finer points of copyright definitions which could develop into something that might discourage, among others, my friends here in the forum, to whom I remain indebted for countless incidents of feedback and knowledge provision.


now we're starting to get ridiculous. Songs that are obviously no longer covered by a copyright as in PUBLIC DOMAIN songs are not included in this "prohibited by PG" category. The rules as posted say no copyrighted songs. As in the copyright is still valid.

If you want to cover a copyrighted song, you are free to do so IF.... you own the right to license the song and have bought the proper license and paid your fees to the owner of the copyright. Several folks have done that here in the past. To be legit, you simply post the license number in your OP....

However, MOST, but not ALL hymns are now public domain and you are free to cover them as you wish.

BTW: PG isn't the only site that doesn't want covers of copyrighted songs posted.


You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com
Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Dear moderator(s),

PLEASE considering moving this thread to off topics. Surely it's all been said smile

Thank you,

J&B

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Totally agree guys

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Oh no Bud, no way, I have a new novel to post.


WAR AND PEACE:

My Life in the BIAB Forums

By David Tolstoy Snyder

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Mr.Tolstoy, only if you do it in form of a song and post it here, in User Showcase. Please do not diminish, original writings of your great ancestor*. You are young and full of energy, you can do better than just 587,287 words! (had to google that one).

+1 for moving this topic elsewhere.

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Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
Unfortunately I have to disagree with Eddie on his assumption the Users Showcase is a strict songwriting forum for several reasons. First and most importantly, his definition is so restrictive there are some of my original songs that didn't qualify to be posted. I have had several forum members 'cover' my original works and they released the song here in the Users Showcase. Other forum members have done the same with other forum members. By every definition, these songs are covers and do not qualify under Eddie's restrictive code. A cover is not constrained to a commercial hit song. I am aware that in the past some forum members have corroborated with friends or family and used BIAB to create the instrumental backing tracks of their song and posted these on the Users Showcase with the writers permission. Again, this falls short using Eddie's narrow and restrictive interpretation of proper use of the Users Showcase.

Second, It has been my understanding the entire time I have been a forum member that if one had all the rights to a song, it could be posted in the Users Showcase. Over the years, several members obtained legal license to commercially and privately record and release copyrighted material and some of those releases made it to the Users Showcase. When it has been questioned in the past, every time, inclusion of the license number was sufficient to stop any assertion the song was either improperly or illegally posted against standing Users Showcase regulations.

Third, it is my understanding the entire time I have been a forum member the Users Showcase is a song forum and not a songwriting forum. It is to showcase members use of PGMusic software in their music production. There are at least three other forums on the PGMusic site that direct focus more toward unauthorized covers of copyrighted material or songwriting subject that buttress my position in my opinion. My assessment is that Eddie's assumption and decision the Users Showcase is a songwriting forum is incorrect and not supported by the listed regulations nor past enforcement and acceptance of posted songs.


Fourth, public domain songs have always been considered the BIAB artist has all rights to the song and publishing them in the Users Showcase has been accepted the entire time I have been a forum member.

Fifth: Eddie posted this in the wrong forum......


Sixth: It's not my "code". I didn't write that rule. I read it. It's the forum's rule. Line 1. I believe in following the rules. And that's why I brought it up.

Apparently different people have different rules, or immunity from following posted rules. That lucky dozen or so who are in the clique can do whatever they want, The rest of us lowly users have to follow the rules. Particularly the rule written on the very first bullet point of the forum. I thought the clique thing was over for me when I left high school 50 years ago.

But I am out of the discussion now. If the mods want to kill this thread I have no problem with that.


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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Eddie,
it is important discussion. People suggested moving it to proper forum section, not deleting it.

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I do mostly covers of other people's songs but I won't/don't post them in User Showcase. If this topic is directed at me then I will exit stage left and ride off into the sunset.

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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Eddie,
it is important discussion. People suggested moving it to proper forum section, not deleting it.



Plus 1


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Originally Posted By: Don Gaynor
I do mostly covers of other people's songs but I won't/don't post them in User Showcase. If this topic is directed at me then I will exit stage left and ride off into the sunset.

Please don't...


Jim
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Don, I'd far rather you stayed . Eddie, why do you wish to upset people and keep getting back up ? If you are so annoyed with all the cover songs, then just don't bother coming to visit the forum. Problem solved. I also totally disagree about a clique being on here. Sheer poppycock !

Last edited by furry; 02/26/19 12:06 AM.
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I just want to hear what everyone is doing musically...
So don't get your feelings hurt...
Don't get upset & leave...
Just share your musical ideas with me & others who want to listen.


Jim
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I rarely post on the user showcase, so maybe I should keep my opinion to myself. But I have been on this forum long enough to see a lot of water flow under the bridge, a lot of conflicting opinions and the occasional clarifying ruling by PGMusic.

All of the "official rulings" I've ever seen have been quite permissive compared to the user suggestions leading up to the ruling.

If I had to describe in a nutshell all of the past official rulings, they'd all boil down to "Have fun, but don't do anything illegal"

The purpose of the user showcase, I believe, is in its name: SHOW us what you are doing with PGMusic products.

Some people are writing original songs, some are interpreting public domain works, some have purchase a license to make it legal for them to post a cover. The way I see it, if what you are doing is legal, its OK.

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Originally Posted By: Pat Marr


The purpose of the user showcase, I believe, is in its name: SHOW us what you are doing with PGMusic products.

Some people are writing original songs, some are interpreting public domain works, some have purchase a license to make it legal for them to post a cover. The way I see it, if what you are doing is legal, its OK.


+1 Nicely said.
There some amazing covers/arrangements/public domain items that had been posted to Showcase. I do not want to see them gone!

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One way to achieve owning all the song rights is when you are presenting your interpretation of a public domain song, i.e., not copying another version.

Regarding the PD it is challenging but assuredly possible to research whether or not a song is in the PD and for which country that applies to. For every PD song we have posted here I did extensive research to determine that it was actually in the PD and that, consequently, we would own all rights to it. The result of this research was the production of PD songs that we have had licensed by Mood Media with no ownership issues.

I'm not trying to be didactic or self-righteous...just presenting our decision and perspective and I intend no disrespect to anybody who differently interprets the above. PG Music's leniency is obviously their prerogative.

Bud




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Not sure if this point has been made before, but some people simply CAN'T compose music even though they may be damn good musicians and arrangers. My view is that it would be a real shame if those who CAN'T compose aren't allowed to show off their talents. Even those of us who DO compose frequently get a mental block and can go for weeks or even months without being able to compose, I found myself in this situation last year and due to illness and just not having the mental capability I was months not composing anything.
So I say we need some kind of leniency on this matter.

I apologise to you Eddie for getting a bit harsh I havn't been in the best of health myself for some time and I get wound up quite easily.

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I think Bud came closest to the correct answer. But, not close enough IMHO! smile The first rule says this,

Quote:
The songs must be originals, no copyrighted or "cover" songs. You must have all of the rights to the songs.


This seems totally unambiguous to me. And it seems PGM went out of their way to make it so. The first part of the first sentence says it all. If you didn't write it you cannot post it. You cannot cover any song, public domain or otherwise and have that be an original. Furthermore, if you wrote it but transferred rights away then the second sentence prohibits you from posting it.

Sundance pointed out that Peter Gannon himself indicated it is OK to post links to covers in the "I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube". So...problem solved! If you wanna post a cover put it on Youtube and link to it in that forum. If you have something you wrote and you still retain rights to then post it in the showcase.

By following these simple rules you are ensuring that PGM does not get in any trouble for licensing violations.

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Just to continue that thought...why would PGM discourage posting public domain songs in the showcase? Simple! Not everyone will agree or understand or do their due diligence to ensure a song is in the public domain. Also, what might be in the public domain in your country may not be in another and this is an international website. So, if PGM allowed public domain covers they could be assuming some level of responsibility for policing it. And it is far easier for them to simply say originals only.

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A big ole FWIW: I don't consider a PD song production to be a "cover." Why? Because as PG Music states you must own all of the rights. And with your interpretation of a PD song you own it in toto. You can license it as yours and do whatever you wish with it. Millions are played everyday and posted on YouTube, etc., with no issues.

PG Music's comments on covers is certainly understandable; however, unlike SoundCloud and other sites PG Music is not "hosting" the songs posted...they are only posting a link to them. Their approach encourages users to use BiaB to create songs and be creative with their product. And it has certainly worked for us! All our years in bluegrass bands we played either covers or PD songs. Were it not for BiaB we would not be writing now. Thank you.

As far as what is the country of origin goes regarding the PD that's interesting. One might argue that it is where the host, e.g., Soundcloud is located? I don't know. For us we always use the USA laws which are by far are among the most stringent in the world.

For us, if PD songs were to be banned about 25% of our catalog would have to be removed smile Not to mention that many of our blues or traditional bluegrass songs are so obscure in origin we've gone to great lengths to give the story behind them. Hey some of them date to the 1700's like the reggae version of Pretty Polly we did.

Bud

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By definition - Public Domain "the state of belonging or being available to the public as a whole, and therefore not subject to copyright."


John

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Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
I don't consider a PD song production to be a "cover."

But your interpretation of an existing song is still in violation of the very first thing they say, "The songs must be originals". Maybe PGM does not care but I wonder why they said "The songs must be originals" if songs that are not originals are acceptable?

I'd like to hear from PG or someone authorized to resolve this. We can only be as accurate as their statement. And their statement is pretty clear.

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If I register, i.e., copyright my version of a PD song I consider it original. As much as somebody who uses exactly the same complex chord progression of a song and calls it his or her own . Yep, I know progressions can’t be copyrighted. FWIW, With our PD songs we invariably change the chords and the lyric. I think PG Music has amply demonstrated liency regarding the use of PD material.

OK that’s my story and I’m sticking with it! smile smile

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Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
If I register, i.e., copyright my version of a PD song I consider it original. As much as somebody who uses exactly the same complex chord progression of a song and calls it his or her own . Yep, I know progressions can’t be copyrighted. FWIW, With our PD songs we invariably change the chords and the lyric. I think PG Music has amply demonstrated liency regarding the use of PD material.

OK that’s my story and I’m sticking with it! smile smile

It's a cover! laugh

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You can copyright your recording of a PD song, but you don't get to copyright the song itself (melody/lyrics) as your own. Now if you write a new melody to the original lyrics, you can claim copyright on the new melody, but not the lyrics. Likewise, if you write new lyrics to the original melody, you can claim the lyrics, but not the melody. But by definition, if they want, everyone can legally post their own rendition of a PD song (as long as it truly is PD - that's on the originator to research). I've posted PD on the forum, clearly indicated as such, and have received no pushback from PGMusic.


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Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
If I register, i.e., copyright my version of a PD song I consider it original. As much as somebody who uses exactly the same complex chord progression of a song and calls it his or her own . Yep, I know progressions can’t be copyrighted. FWIW, With our PD songs we invariably change the chords and the lyric. I think PG Music has amply demonstrated liency regarding the use of PD material.

OK that’s my story and I’m sticking with it! smile smile

It's a cover! laugh


OK, we ain't talking about a legal contract here. If we were, heads would have rolled by now. This discussion is probably best understood as a "spirit of the law vs letter of the law" interpretation.

When I hear the phrase "cover song" I immediately think of the obvious and most likely case of people using BIAB to record songs that are still under copyright. Obviously, PGMusic doesn't want that. I doubt that anybody at PGMusic sat around a table with squinty eyes saying "but what exactly does 'cover song' mean anyway? Would it include someone's personal interpretation of public domain music? "

If that discussion had taken place, people would have gotten warnings by now.

PGMusic is concerned about controlling the content only to the extent that they don't get letters from attorneys.

The fact that nobody has been so much as WARNED (much less removed from the forum) is enough evidence to rule out the "letter of the law" interpretation.

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I remember when Aleck Rand (aka Dean Clark) started posting his version of jazz covers. He provided his license number, but this same discussion blew hot and heavy over the forum for weeks. People were asking PGMusic to step in with an official ruling.

First of all, PGMusic has no incentive to do that, because lawyers are really good at twisting words to make the innocent sound guilty. That's why forum rules are generally written such that the letter of the law would allow the most narrow degree of freedom.

But getting back to Dean Clark...

Peter Gannon rarely comments on showcase songs. Wise man. But its worth noting that in the middle of the forum discussion in which Aleck/Dean was being challenged, Dr. Gannon commented favorably on one of Dean's songs. No reprimand, yet also no official weigh-in on the matter.

No laws were broken. No harm, no foul.

I personally don't expect to see a "letter of the law" response to forum rules until somebody does something that is prosecutable, and some attorney starts to give PGMusic a bunch of grief.

disclaimer:
this is just my opinion. I am not affiliated with PGMusic in any way except as a customer. I have no insider knowledge of their intent. I'm just pointing out that nobody has been reprimanded yet after several years of what some would say constitutes rule breaking.

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I guess I was lucky as Peter kindly commented on one of mine fairly recently smile

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Originally Posted By: Pat Marr
I personally don't expect to see a "letter of the law" response to forum rules until somebody does something that is prosecutable, and some attorney starts to give PGMusic a bunch of grief.


In the strictest definition, every cover posted is prosecutable. Now, WOULD anybody do that, I doubt it because these covers are not presented for sale, thus no revenue is generated that the original composer would be due a cut.

However, my initial post was essentially this.

If you have a rule, enforce it. If you aren't going to enforce it, remove it. Seems that everybody wants to post their favorite country oldie that they used to perform 30 years ago "down to the VF Dubya." The past is done. I also don't watch old movies of me playing baseball in high school 50 years ago. I was very good. Then. I was also 17. Then. I am not 17 anymore. "Glory days, how they pass you by, glory days".....

Just start another forum specifically saying "Post covers here" rather than the vague "Look what I found on Youtube" or whatever they call it. I don't know the name of the forum because I have never gone into it, largely due to my dislike and disdain for cover tunes.

There may also be some international issue, as an extremely high percentage of the works being covered are covered under Copyright in the USA, and they are in Canada.

You ever seen those ads on TV for those services that send you food and step by step directions and you then "cook" the meal? I put on Facebook that I consider that to be the "copy band of cooking". You aren't cooking anything. You are being the hands for someone else cooking it. I take the same view about playing someone else's music. Just like writing music that sucks and I throw it away, I have cooked some HORRIBLE meals because I don't use recipes. I make up my own. On the other hand, I have come up with about 4 dozen of my own recipes that are amazing. I wish I could say that about my writing.


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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Originally Posted By: Pat Marr
He provided his license number.


What does that mean? He has a license to copy songs? Educate me here please, as I know nothing about that. I never knew such a thing existed.

Last edited by eddie1261; 02/27/19 08:42 AM.

I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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I would think it would be obvious that if you have gone through the proper legal channels, and have paid the license fee for a copyrighted song, you have "ALL" the rights accorded by that license. Since Harry Fox licenses music for internet release as well as the traditional hard copy, it should be understood that anyone who has paid the fee requested by the HFA for the usage requested under the license, they have the full right, legally, to post that song online, and that should include in these forums. Licensing doesn't mean you own the song.... but it accords you all the rights in the license agreement to make commercial use of the song and to keep any profit made from that use.

Arguing over the minutia doesn't solve the issue. If you think doing a cover is beneath your musical standards.... don't do covers. If you do covers and have the license to legally put it into the public arena, post it. And yeah... probably a good idea around here or in any forum site actually, to post your HFA license number.


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Originally Posted By: eddie1261
Originally Posted By: Pat Marr
He provided his license number.


What does that mean? He has a license to copy songs? Educate me here please, as I know nothing about that. I never knew such a thing existed.


See Herb's post. Harry Fox agency sells all kinds of licenses for specific use of somebody else's protected property.

One license lets you put your version of their song on your CD (which is how so many famous people have covered the same songs through the years)

another license lets you use their sheet music

another license lets you put their song in a movie

another license lets you use their song(s) in a public performance

another license lets you use their song (or your version of it) online

etc etc etc. I probably have the details wrong, but that's the gist of it.
Cost of the license varies according to how many people are likely to see/hear your use of it.

All of these license are for one specific use, Just because you pay for one license doesn't mean you can use the music in one of the other ways.

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You guys crack me up! smile Lots of weasel wording around to try and justify what you wanna do! Yet it could not be stated more clearly than the first 5 words in the first rule, "The songs must be originals"! Doesn't matter if a hairy fox or a hairless bear granted you a license to cover a song, it is still NOT an original! laugh

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Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
You guys crack me up! smile Lots of weasel wording around to try and justify what you wanna do! Yet it could not be stated more clearly than the first 5 words in the first rule, "The songs must be originals"! Doesn't matter if a hairy fox or a hairless bear granted you a license to cover a song, it is still NOT an original! laugh


Please let me reiterate that my comments have all related to the discussion around the Public Domain. I do not think that any type of license of another artist's published work gives one "all rights" to it -- in any shape, fashion or form. But at the risk of cracking you up smile I'll say again that I think an original interpretation of a Public Domain song meets the spirit of PG Music's rules — even given the statement you quoted.

And I have ZERO issues with folks posting ANY song they wish too. Just offered a few opinions on the PD and my personal thoughts on licensing. PG Music is the arbiter...not us.

Whew...

Bud

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Wow. "The spirit of" a printed, stated rule.

As J3 says, "All songs must be originals". It doesn't say "Public Domain covers are okay if you got a license from an organization who is in business to take your money. ." It says originals.

I wonder how many laws are on the books that law enforcement would wink at "in the spirit of the thing"?


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
If I register, i.e., copyright my version of a PD song I consider it original.


I consider myself to be handsome, 6'4" and 210 pounds. That is far from the truth. I am a short, fat ugly little fireplug no matter what I "consider".

The forum rule posted doesn't really say "If YOU consider it to be original, than it is so," does it?

My recurring theme here is unwavering. If they have the rule in place, they should enforce it. If they don't intend to enforce it, they should just remove the rule. If that sentence wasn't the first thing in the user showcase, I wouldn't have had anything to say.


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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I’m old but hopefully capable of understanding the rule. What I tried to suggest (apparently unsuccessfully smile ) is that they are seemingly offering some leeway. Sorta like law enforcement does when one is breaking the 55 mph rule (law) by a few mph. Heck if they inforced all the rules rigidly many posts would be removed from off topics as they (not this one) are not music related.

Sorry to subject all to more old phart ramblings. I shall mercifully retire from the topic.

Bud


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Good idea, moving it to off-topic. As for me and "my" hymns, I haven't been persuaded that PD songs have no place in a BaiB Users Forum. At least, not from the comments so far. Some were concerned, I know, the forum category could go toxic if left to its own devices. On the other hand, enough comments have me feeling some members enjoy hearing the work. (One less thing for someone else to do, maybe.) I've decided to just go ahead and keep posting PD Hymns with BB backing, once a little time opens up. This, fully recognizing the unique quality of the Forum as it had developed. Nothing else quite like it.


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"All songs must be original" isn't even the slightest bit of "persuasion"?

As far as some members enjoying the work, that leave the inverse as an unstated obvious point, that some members maybe DON'T enjoy hearing the work.

Can't you write a hymn of your own? Geeze I wrote one for a local clergyman 4 years ago in the vain of Paul Baloche and I don't even believe in god.

Remember, people. This is a stated PG policy. This is not something I made up because I want to wear a black hat. I'll post 100 copy songs next month JUST to make my point if need be. I can crank out 4 a day with Real Band when I don't have to write them.


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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Does anyone here honestly believe that if members posting their original versions of public domain songs were a problem that Peter and his legal team wouldn't have put a stop to it by 2019?

I can't believe how ridiculous this thread has gone. A discussion supposedly concerned about covering copyrighted songs has devolved into this. It might be amusing if it wasn't so downright sad.

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Can't you write a hymn of your own? Geeze I wrote one for a local clergyman 4 years ago in the vain of Paul Baloche and I don't even believe in god.

Eddie this is a totally unprovoked nasty comment. I mentioned earlier that some people CAN'T compose their own material try and remember that before posting comments like this

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Originally Posted By: edshaw
Good idea, moving it to off-topic. As for me and "my" hymns, I haven't been persuaded that PD songs have no place in a BaiB Users Forum. At least, not from the comments so far. Some were concerned, I know, the forum category could go toxic if left to its own devices. On the other hand, enough comments have me feeling some members enjoy hearing the work. (One less thing for someone else to do, maybe.) I've decided to just go ahead and keep posting PD Hymns with BB backing, once a little time opens up. This, fully recognizing the unique quality of the Forum as it had developed. Nothing else quite like it.



I for one enjoy listening to your work Ed although I don't always comment

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"The songs must be originals"

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Originally Posted By: furry
I mentioned earlier that some people CAN'T compose their own material try and remember that before posting comments like this


CAN'T? When did that word enter your vocabulary? People can do anything if they have the right amount of determination.


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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Originally Posted By: Sundance
Does anyone here honestly believe that if members posting their original versions of public domain songs were a problem that Peter and his legal team wouldn't have put a stop to it by 2019?

I can't believe how ridiculous this thread has gone. A discussion supposedly concerned about covering copyrighted songs has devolved into this. It might be amusing if it wasn't so downright sad.



+1

If the goal is really to enforce the rules, debating it in the forum is the wrong approach. We have no power of enforcement. The matter should be directed to PGMusic, and no doubt they will do whatever they think is appropriate.

On the other hand, if the goal is mainly just to stir the $#!+, then things are going along according to plan. No change required.

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Wow.... this has gone to some serious nit picking and hard stances.

PG simply asks that you don't violate the copyright laws.

The songs must be originals, no copyrighted or "cover" songs. You must have all of the rights to the songs.

Yes, the wording says songs must be originals. However, until the PG legal team weighs in and gives a ruling on this.... suffice it to say ....

Original intent of the law... or rule, in this case is to kindly request that users post songs that are not violations of the copyright laws.

In order to conform to "not a violation of copyright law" one would simply have to do one of two things. Either write an original song or secure the license and therefore the rights, to use the song. When you buy the license.... you do in fact have ALL Rights to use that song in the manner prescribed in your license agreement. And if you have an online license, you can post it here legally.

Prove me wrong. wink

Peter Gannon is free to comment and the only one who can actually comment with authority and a definitive statement one way or the other. ( Or his legal team... and you know he has one )


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All of this because a mute veteran who lives in a nursing home and is the biggest supporter of PGMusic decided to post some of his earlier songs, sharing some of the best days of his life to his friends here! This thread makes me sick!

If this is an issue you and I can't do a thing about it and all it has caused is some hurt feelings.

If this was an issue the PGMusic would have stopped it my now. Some from the company have even posted that they liked the songs.

If anyone has an issue like this they should complain to PGMusic.


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Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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Hi Mario

I sincerely hope this is not the case that is an awful shame if it is so.
quote
“All of this because a mute veteran who lives in a nursing home and is the biggest supporter of PGMusic decided to post some of his earlier songs, sharing some of the best days of his life to his friends here! This thread makes me sick!”

I don’t like Hymns on here myself so I don’t listen, but I’m sure some do.
If I wanted hymns I would go to church. I don’t come on a music forum to be preached to!
Anyway surely that comes under religion? Original or otherwise.

Mike


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if public domain were wrong here why are the folders of BiaB filled with them.

why does someone always have to take others to the wood shed. geeeeez folks listen to the ones you like and don't listen to the other songs. post what you feel is appropriate, and forget telling others what they can and cant do. lastly leave the police work to the police. if we step over the line PGM will correct it as they have in the past. that is why they hire and pay moderators for the forums


what a childish and fruitless conversation this has been


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I'm going to have one final input on this topic. It's time it was closed as this has caused more bad feeling than anything else I've seen on here for a few years

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Originally Posted By: RobH
if public domain were wrong here why are the folders of BiaB filled with them.

why does someone always have to take others to the wood shed. geeeeez folks listen to the ones you like and don't listen to the other songs. post what you feel is appropriate, and forget telling others what they can and cant do.

lastly leave the police work to the police. if we step over the line PGM will correct it as they have in the past. that is why they hire and pay moderators for the forums


what a childish and fruitless conversation this has been

Amen!


Jim
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It's curious to note that radio stations around the world are airing my COVERS without question.

Taken to the extreme, it's probably a copyright infringement to sit around the campfire with friends and sing John Denver songs.

Perhaps if money were involved but that is not the case here. Rather, it's a group of international friends bonding closer by sharing their music. In this divisive world, I think we need much more of that, not less.

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I don’t have a dog in this fight because I don’t post my music to the forums; not because I don’t have original material and not because I don’t use BIAB in my recordings but because my final recordings end up being not enough BIAB to make it a showcase of what BIAB can do. There are some very obvious things that need to be said before this discussions goes onto the 8th page of commentary:

1. Whatever rules that govern this forum and any of the sub forums are made by Peter and the employees of PG Music.

2. The interpretation and enforcement of those rules is the sole responsibility of PG Music.

3. PG Music is aware of this discussion since we saw the moderators take an ENFORCEMENT ACTION by moving this thread from its original location to the off-topic forum.

4. Despite being aware of this discussion, PG Music has chosen to NOT make a Declaration concerning proper interpretation of the rules which most likely means they have chosen to allow the current status quo to exist WITHOUT codifying it by putting it into writing. (Never put into writing something that can come back and bite you later).

5. Each participant in this discussion can do their own research but there are two areas of inquiry which would be enlightening for someone who is not just doing this to stir the pot. What enforcement actions have been taken against postings that supposedly violate the defined rules for the Users Showcase? Even more enlightening: Has a forum member ever been recognized with a Users Showcase Award after posting a non-original song to the sub forum? Before beating this dead horse into a bloody puddle check those two things.

6. Someone who wants to blow the forum up with indiscriminate posts to make a point can certainly do that but it would just ruin a very good thing for no good reason. Don’t do it.


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Originally Posted By: Mike Head
Hi Mario

I sincerely hope this is not the case that is an awful shame if it is so.
quote
“All of this because a mute veteran who lives in a nursing home and is the biggest supporter of PGMusic decided to post some of his earlier songs, sharing some of the best days of his life to his friends here! This thread makes me sick!”

I don’t like Hymns on here myself so I don’t listen, but I’m sure some do.
If I wanted hymns I would go to church. I don’t come on a music forum to be preached to!
Anyway surely that comes under religion? Original or otherwise.

Mike



Yes Mike that is the case.


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Originally Posted By: Jim
Originally Posted By: RobH
if public domain were wrong here why are the folders of BiaB filled with them.

why does someone always have to take others to the wood shed. geeeeez folks listen to the ones you like and don't listen to the other songs. post what you feel is appropriate, and forget telling others what they can and cant do.

lastly leave the police work to the police. if we step over the line PGM will correct it as they have in the past. that is why they hire and pay moderators for the forums


what a childish and fruitless conversation this has been

Amen!


I agree.


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Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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It's so predictable that EVERY time an opportunity presents itself to insult musicians who don't happen to be songwriters, we know exactly who's going to lead the charge.

It begs the question, are non-songwriters unworthy to participate in playing music? Of course not! To even suggest that is ludicrous and snobbish.

For the record, I've written somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 songs so I'm all for encouraging others to do the same. What I'm against is trying to make musicians who aren't songwriters feel as if they are inferior to those who do write their own material.

I'll give one more Amen to RobH:


Originally Posted By: RobH
if public domain were wrong here why are the folders of BiaB filled with them.

why does someone always have to take others to the wood shed. geeeeez folks listen to the ones you like and don't listen to the other songs. post what you feel is appropriate, and forget telling others what they can and cant do. lastly leave the police work to the police. if we step over the line PGM will correct it as they have in the past. that is why they hire and pay moderators for the forums


what a childish and fruitless conversation this has been

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to me it's very interesting how we as people can have such varied views of a simple sentence.

"The songs must be originals, no copyrighted or "cover" songs. You must have all of the rights to the songs.

you can pick that sentence apart and come up with several conclusions. As was said the first five words san only originals, but then the sentence also implies the need to have rights to the song. It also adds in the middle the concept of copyrights or covers neither of which applies to PD music.

So the sentence is pretty wide and not black and white, however or can be interpreted in more than one way.

But really the issue is not which way the sentence can be interpreted, but actually why does one's interpretation supersede another's? Why puff up one's chest and bark about right or wrong, about a viewpoint in regard to anything that actually is not that persons jurisdiction or area of responsibility.


Human reasoning is certainly interesting. Makes me shake my head sometimes.


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Originally Posted By: furry
I'm going to have one final input on this topic. It's time it was closed as this has caused more bad feeling than anything else I've seen on here for a few years


Hi Graham,

I consider the PG forums to be the most friendly of those I know in the Internet world. But I think it is fine with a discussion like this - no one is using bad words or calling other people "idiots" or bad stuff like that. I think there should be room for an interesting and important topic like this.

Will

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Originally Posted By: Will Josef
Originally Posted By: furry
I'm going to have one final input on this topic. It's time it was closed as this has caused more bad feeling than anything else I've seen on here for a few years


Hi Graham,

I consider the PG forums to be the most friendly of those I know in the Internet world. But I think it is fine with a discussion like this - no one is using bad words or calling other people "idiots" or bad stuff like that. I think there should be room for an interesting and important topic like this.

Will

Well said and true!

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I have never posted my COVERS in the User's Showcase thinking that they didn't meet the qualifications. I only use the Off Topic thread.

I feel like I have been given a Tabasco sauce enema.

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Originally Posted By: Don Gaynor

Perhaps if money were involved but that is not the case here. Rather, it's a group of international friends bonding closer by sharing their music. In this divisive world, I think we need much more of that, not less.


YES...


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Originally Posted By: Don Gaynor
I have never posted my COVERS in the User's Showcase thinking that they didn't meet the qualifications. I only use the Off Topic thread.

I feel like I have been given a Tabasco sauce enema.

Oooohhh. I've never heard of that but imagine that it might not be so good. cry cry cry
Thanks for the laugh, Donny!


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Originally Posted By: Don Gaynor


I feel like I have been given a Tabasco sauce enema.


Oh my....


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Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

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Originally Posted By: Don Gaynor


I feel like I have been given a Tabasco sauce enema.


I’m not going to ask how you know what that feels like.


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I've heard of garlic enemas, they are probably very therapeutic for vampires, but never heard of Tabasco sauce ones. It must be a western / cowboy interpretation of original recipe.
The first mention of the enema in medical literature is in the Ancient Egyptian Ebers Papyrus (c. 1550 BCE). (I had to look that up) Now, "vampires" also go back way back... into Greek mythology.
The modern day, good old vampires, as we know them, are derived from Eastern Slavic folklore, around 17th century and most likely unorthodox method of garlic enemas - as a secondary "tool of choice" was introduced around that time. I believe it is safe to assume that both garlic and enemas where well established items and are of disposal to vampire hunters of that time.
Tabasco sauce enemas seem to have different use. Administered orally, it causes reaction of alertness and wakefulness. Having good imagination, one can only predict the outcome if administered otherwise. In analogy to garlic enemas, we can see, it goes back into the time of "expired copyrights" There are two hypothesis of origins of Tabasco sauce as we know it. One mentioning goes back to late 1840s another, a more accepted one to late 1860s. Tobasco Brand maintains the copyright....
So the big question stands, Is the use of Tabasco sauce enemas are a breach of copyright...a cover? Or one has to go to Tabasco, Mexico, pick own peppers and create that special magic sauce that only you, the original pepper picker know the secret formula to....?

P.S. Questions, questions...I think it is time to give this a rest and start doing some music. Perhaps about Tabasco Enemas? Have to consult with Don G. if that is a possibility.

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Originally Posted By: Don Gaynor

I feel like I have been given a Tabasco sauce enema.


Sounds like a good title for a country song...


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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
I've heard of garlic enemas, they are probably very therapeutic for vampires, but never heard of Tabasco sauce ones. It must be a western / cowboy interpretation of original recipe.
The first mention of the enema in medical literature is in the Ancient Egyptian Ebers Papyrus (c. 1550 BCE). (I had to look that up) Now, "vampires" also go back way back... into Greek mythology.
The modern day, good old vampires, as we know them, are derived from Eastern Slavic folklore, around 17th century and most likely unorthodox method of garlic enemas - as a secondary "tool of choice" was introduced around that time. I believe it is safe to assume that both garlic and enemas where well established items and are of disposal to vampire hunters of that time.
Tabasco sauce enemas seem to have different use. Administered orally, it causes reaction of alertness and wakefulness. Having good imagination, one can only predict the outcome if administered otherwise. In analogy to garlic enemas, we can see, it goes back into the time of "expired copyrights" There are two hypothesis of origins of Tabasco sauce as we know it. One mentioning goes back to late 1840s another, a more accepted one to late 1860s. Tobasco Brand maintains the copyright....
So the big question stands, Is the use of Tabasco sauce enemas are a breach of copyright...a cover? Or one has to go to Tabasco, Mexico, pick own peppers and create that special magic sauce that only you, the original pepper picker know the secret formula to....?

P.S. Questions, questions...I think it is time to give this a rest and start doing some music. Perhaps about Tabasco Enemas? Have to consult with Don G. if that is a possibility.

The resident sniper would still find fault. Some folks seem to prefer living in misery and spoiling other folks' happiness.

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mmmmmm just read this from start to finish. anyone think American Tune by Paul Simon would be banned from PG Music show case? The tune is an old hymn tune, but the words are original and so the song is an original by Paul Simon.You couldn't do a cover version without permission but the tune is PD.

Not that he uses BIAB but if Paul Simon wanted to post American Tune i think he would be allowed!

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Originally Posted By: Bob Calver
mmmmmm just read this from start to finish. anyone think American Tune by Paul Simon would be banned from PG Music show case? The tune is an old hymn tune, but the words are original and so the song is an original by Paul Simon.You couldn't do a cover version without permission but the tune is PD.

Not that he uses BIAB but if Paul Simon wanted to post American Tune i think he would be allowed!


That happens a lot. "My Way" was written to a French tune with different and original lyrics by Paul Anka and originally recorded by Frank Sinatra. So Frank Sinatra did a cover of a Paul Anka song that was actually a cover of another melody/song....


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That brings up some good points.

Morning Has Broken (made famous by Cat Stevens) was written by Eleanor Farjeon. She was born in 1881, although I believe that the hymn was not penned until 1931.

Who would be rightfully concerned if a cover was made, Eleanor or Steven?


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Probably Cat Stevens cause Eleanor is like dead now! If not then we got other issues


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But someone will have the rights to Eleanor's song. Lots of songwriters are no longer with us. But somebody still cares about the copyright of those songs, you better believe it.


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This may be of interest re. Morning Has Broken, also some info of interest re.
"recycling" folk tunes.

Cat Stevens and BUNESSAN
Bunessan on the other hand, is a folk tune which had already been collected by someone else. In this case, only Shaw's particular arrangement, the one in Songs of Praise (paired with Morning has Broken), remains in his copyright.

To explain further:

Whilst a lot of people growing up in the mid-20th Century would have been familiar with the Anglican hymn Morning has Broken, Cat Stevens, having been to a Roman Catholic school, was not. In an interview about MhB, he explained that he had came across an old school hymn book for the first time and had found it to be a compendium of folk tunes , a musical treasure-trove.

Thumbing through, Stevens did not have to look far to find inspiration. Morning has Broken is Hymn No. 30, and, assuming it was a Victorian hymn, (the irony of it! Songs of Praise was written as an Anti-Victorian hymn book), he took it off to the recording studio, changed the key from B flat to C major, and made it famous.

The assumption that it was a Victorian hymn was probably due to the discretion with which Martin Shaw made his copyright declaration: it is tucked away on page xi of the Preface. Nowadays composers know better, their names proclaim their good work alongside the title, original work or no.

Because, as a result of Cat Stevens using Morning has Broken without permission, the Martin Shaw estate brought a court case. The Farjeon Estate own copyright for her poem, but even though Martin Shaw was the primary cause of the hymn, (he had asked Eleanor Farjeon Estate to put words to the tune), Cat Stevens won the case. The judge's decision was that Martin Shaw's copyright extended to his arrangement only, not to the tune itself.

Which is fair enough. Otherwise, anyone could use any old tune (e.g. Happy Birthday) and claim it as their copyright for evermore, which would lead to a copyright free-for-all.

Meanwhile Morning has Broken continues to be Cat Stevens' greatest hit, which just goes to show that it's not the hymn-tunes which are boring, it's the way you play them.

from; http://www.martinshawmusic.com/copyright.html

Regards
Vintage

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Dylan has an army of lawyers protecting his copyrights to satisfy the requirement to "aggressively pursue all infringements" or risk losing copyright protection. The government does not litigate in his behalf.

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Don Gaynor wrote; "The government does not litigate in his behalf."

In general, copyright disputes are civil issues, so should not involve government.

However, in certain territories, corporations with sufficient financial clout have
lobbied government to extend the life of copyright on their intellectual property.

Vintage

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There is more than 1 definition of "original ".


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Originally Posted By: silvertones
There is more than 1 definition of "original ".


True point. See John here is an original!

Originals are not near as scary as copies or clones. Ever hear of a movie called “night of the originals”?

Just saying.


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Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
If you want to cover a copyrighted song, you are free to do so IF.... you own the right to license the song and have bought the proper license and paid your fees to the owner of the copyright. Several folks have done that here in the past. To be legit, you simply post the license number in your OP....


Paying for a license gives you the rights to PERFORM a song. Ownership of the writing credit does not transfer.

And this is not MY interpretation of anything. It is simply was the forum rule says.

Also note that at no time did I ever mention anybody's name. I simply asked that PG step in and either enforce their rule or remove it.

Bye.


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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Originally Posted By: silvertones
There is more than 1 definition of "original ".


Can you offer a few?

Original means "I created it. I wrote it. This is my own thoughts." Things along those lines.

And i come back to the original thought again and a again. The forum says they must be your own work. No covers.

I'm out. Do what you want.


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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<<< The forum says they must be your own work. No covers. >>>


No. Read it again and read the complete statement of two sentences. They are connected and together become the whole.


"The songs must be originals, no copyrighted or "cover" songs. You must have all of the rights to the songs."

What if I created directly and personally by me; not a copy or imitation; not dependent on other people's ideas; inventive and unusual; the first or earliest; existing from the beginning a song composition. This song I created meets the standard definitions to be considered an original song composition.

Part One of the four regulation requirements to post a song on the User Forum has been met.

Part Two of the four regulation requirements is I record the song and therefore it's not a "cover" of someone else's work. Part two requirement has been met.

Part Three of the four regulation requirements is so far, composing, recording, arranging and producing the work, I have all of the rights to the song. Part Three requirement has been met.

Part Four of the four regulation requirements is I copyright the song. OOOOPS!!! Regulation is clear -- No copyrighted songs. I can't post...… Of course I can. The intent of the regulation is actually clear even though the copyright wording is ambiguous. The law usually defers to common meaning and would include copyright with cover wording and treat the two words together.

____

I sold a 'song' several years ago. I wrote this song around 1970, early 71. I copyrighted this song with US Copyright in 1974 or early 75. I recorded this song with a band in 1975 and commercially released the album mid year 1975. Approximately 2017, I sold this song to a Record Company. I received a lump sum payment and agreement to receive quarterly royalty payments if my percentage of sales exceeds $25. The contract is for 7 years. The record company owns everything about that song. All media sources of production, arrangement, fair use, every source of income, etc, etc, etc worldwide for the seven year period of the contract. I can't reissue the original album without either securing the record company's permission and paying for the use of the song to be included on the album it was originally released on all those years ago. The record company has re-mastered the original recording and their use of the recording and song uses the original mix, artists, album artwork, songwriter (me) and all credits, etc involved with that original commercial release.


The record company owns the original, in it's original format and every format it can be duplicated or replicated in past, present or future for the term of the contract.


If the record company chose to use a PGMusic product to remaster the recording and then joined this forum. THE RECORD COMPANY MEETS EVERY REQUIREMENT OF THE POSTING REGULATION TO LEGALLY POST THAT SONG ONTO THE USER SHOWCASE. I can't do that with the same song. They use the song in its original form, using the original recorded release I wrote, arranged, recorded and performed on. It is an original, they have the copyright, it's not a cover, it's a re-release of the original and they own all the rights.

Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 03/17/19 09:38 AM.

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About time we drew this to a close. It's been like on of those "open mike wars" of the 80's.
PD is a rich source of inspiration and education. Nearly all classical training, in one way or another, is based on PD, from Greensleeves to America, and, not simply because it is free. It is the foundation. Recordings of PD songs can be copyrighted, if that is the intent, based on originality.
I can only imagine what the real intent of the self important objection is.


Link: www.soundcloud.com/ed_shaw (Feel Free to Use)
https://drooble.com/edward.shaw/hymn/index.htm
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