I may have done this but I am old and have no memory.
Can I ask for a headcount of who uses BIAB and who uses RB? I am guessing it might be as high as 90% using BIAB. Which would bring up another question of why they came up with RB if so few of us use it. I am glad they did, but when I see BIAB screen shots and the screen looks nothing like anything I have ever seen, I get nothing from that. I have had PG software for 10 years now and have still never even booted BIAB. I just prefer the DAW feel of RB.
I ask about this because it gets very difficult to try and take answers and suggestions from exclusive BIAB users and apply that to RB, and I am an exclusive RB user.
I don't see way to create a poll like on Twitter or I would have gone that route.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
As you know I use RB way more than BiaB. I still ask beginner questions with BiaB.
As for why they made RB .. they already had Powertracks. As I recall it, the first thing they did was add Realdrums to Powertracks, which in itself made PT be able to do something other DAWs couldn't.
Then once Realtracks came into being it was a natural to add that feature as well. However then you needed the Realtracks that come with BiaB. So they added the feature and created Realband and then included that with BiaB. They left Powertracks as it's own product so it was still an affordable option.
Though it is not used by as many people as I expected to see use it when it first came out, Realband was one of the best 'New Features' IMO. Added a lot to the BiaB line of product.
I'm with you Eddie; the BiaB interface doesn't interest me, nor does the track limitation. If you've worked in a DAW before, the track count can feel pretty confining.
However if you are just tinkering around with chords and styles, BiaB does generate much faster, so you can get more done at that stage. But once I find a style that's close enough I go to RB before I ever really start constructing the song structure .. which reminds me of another thing in BiaB I never get used to; the default 'chorus' structure. To me, one time through the intro/verse/chorus/turnaround does not equal a chorus. Plus I rarely end up with a song that is 3X through the same thing.
I'm more of a linear guy I guess. I know I can 'unfold' it in BiaB, but there's still that track count thing.. and having to decide to keep take A or risk losing it and regenerate B. In RB I can have A B C D and E to pick through and comp easily.
Last edited by rharv; 02/24/1905:23 AM.
Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
I came from an arranger keyboard / Cakewalk DAW mode , to BIAB . It took a while to get used to this way of working, things like choruses etc and inputting the chords first. The notation entry threw me for a while but I love it now. Normally I will start in BIAB and providing I don’t want more tracks for midi that may be all I need. However being used to unlimited tracks I find my self porting to RB quite often. Another reason is I like to be able to play the selected track voice thru from my controller keyboard just by selecting the track, so if I am editing trumpet track I hear trumpet. I still use Cakewalk (now free from bandlab ) for some additional task and tweaks Like running cal files to thin controllers, or maybe add a 3rd or 5th to a single note. Also some nice FX like the reel to reel tape recorder emulation to take some of the digital feel out and return to that warmer analogue sound at times in the final mix. Also some useful compressors and limiters for over lively tracks.
So a bit of a SwisKnife approach for me with each part contributing to the whole.
I started with BB so that is what I am used to. I guess you can do the same things on RB.
I find BB to be more reliable than RB. I never have an RB session without some glitch. The other day RB just started zooming in all by itself and I couldn't stop it. The way it starts Initializing Accompaniment at random. The crashes. I don't have those problems with BB.
I don't think most people do as much Notation and Piano Roll editing as I do. Those functions are much better on BB.
So I guess it comes down to what you are used to and what you do.
I may have done this but I am old and have no memory. Can I ask for a headcount of who uses BIAB and who uses RB?
I use both.
BIAB to get the tempo, chords, rhythm and arrangement locked in only. I freeze those tracks when finished.
After saving, I open in RB to add any number of real tracks solo instruments like axe/sax/harmonica, etc. On my recent upload into the showcase I easily had 4 or 5 various lead tracks or instrument tracks of different styles before arriving at the Dire Straits choice. I may spend more actual time in RB listening to and adding potential lead/instrument choices than I would in BIAB. It can be a time vampire but it's worth it. Once I've got all the tracks I need to work with in RB I import the waves/midi into Sonar X3. That is where the ultimate decision making occurs and culling of tracks begins.
A few have mentioned how BIAB is faster to generate. I don't know why that even matters. Go to the bathroom, crack another beer if you are so inclined to do that... I mean, time? I have all the time in the world. 2 minutes vs 4 minute, so what? What else do I have to do that 2 minutes matters?
I find it so sad that we live in this microwave world now.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
I get why PG Music created Realband. It allows those who are just getting into music production to have everything they need to record a song. While it's a decent product I think most people who get into recording and producing music start out buying a DAW since it's the main software needed. Once they figure out how to use their DAW of choice they tend to stick with it instead of trying to learn something new. If they add BIAB to their arsenal they will probably just export the tracks to their DAW.
Another reason I think people tend not to use Realband is that other DAWs can be easier to use and have more functionality. While Realband has all the basic functions needed to produce a song other DAWs come with a plethora of more advanced plugins and tools to take your productions to the next level.
I only use BIAB and I use it to create backgrounds for live performance and playing along with at home. Being a Mac user I don’t even know what RB is and I don’t think I miss it.
So... if I write a song and use BB to give me a style I like.... such as hard rock, and it's a country song... I need instrumentation that the hard rock style does not give me in BB.
I normally get a few guitars, a bass and drums from BB.
But lets say I want steel guitar, fiddle, and dobro plus some nice B3 organ in the background. The only way I know of to get that happening is to open the file in Real Band and let it generate those tracks for me.
If you are totally content with the 5 tracks BB gives you, that's fine, but if you need more diversity in the final product, you should be using RB to fatten it up.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
I use BIAB to create the instrumental guts of the song (choosing a style, setting the key and tempo, typing in the chords and finalising the structure). Then I open the SGU in RealBand and record my vocals there. I also generate harmonies and do my arrangements (by cutting out instruments in some parts, generating new tracks, etc, etc.). I also do all my mixing in RealBand using Izotope products and iBridge.
LyricLab A.I assisted chords and lyric app. Export lyrics and import directly into Band-in-a-Box 2024. https://lyriclab.net Play-along with songs you know and love, download SGU files https://playiit.com/
I must say it seems an expensive way to get REAL BAND to buy BIABox and then never use the main programme. Just curious what version of BIAB and therefore Realband you have. As Realband shares a lot of resources with Biab like real tracks / drums do you keep your BIAB up to date each year / (week at the moment,) and if so what version to you have as your base software to update . Also realtrack up dates from time to time. Or do you just have the basic pro edition plus some extra realtracks. As the basic core Biab program and the Realband program will be the same. You say you are a ten year user but how up to date are you on both programs. Just trying to understand your logic on this.
I use both. Start in BIAB with chords and a few RT's, then over to RB for more tracks (multis and midi). It usually ends there but on some songs I take it further and go over to Reaper or Bandlab Sonar. I do most of the "work" in BIAB because it generates much faster and I tend to slice and dice styles and RT's.
I use BIAB to pick styles, enter chords and set up the structure of the song. I then import it to Real Band, do the vocals, harmonies, etc. I have recently purchased Mixcraft8 as a DAW and the 2019 BIAB Ultra and am looking forward to using the BIAB as a VST through Mixcraft 8 where I will be doing the usual stuff I do in RB.
I tend to enter chords and generate the tracks using Realtracks in BIAB. If a Realtrack sounds a bit off I put it into RB and do a MultiRiff replacement. Then to Reaper to arrange, mix and “master”. If I want to add some MIDI I tend to go to Cakewalk where I find editing MIDI easier before pulling the audio files into Reaper for finishing.
Tony
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
You say you are a ten year user but how up to date are you on both programs.
2019 (3) With the extra styles pack.
As an IT professional when I worked I am ALWAYS up to date on everything I own. I actually have a schedule to check about a dozen programs I use for updates, though I never have auto update on for anything. I want control of what comes into my computers. Pro Tools stays up to date as well.
"Expensive" is of no matter to me. I am not wealthy, but I am comfortable. I won it in the songwriting forum awards, though I had already purchased it.
I bought it initially, and every year since, because it write backing tracks. The DAW side is not the primary concern, as I get what I need written, get it close, and send it off to Rog who is a WIZARD behind the mixer. When I did any mixing for other people who brought me tracks I always did it in Pro Tools.
The reason I even asked about this is that people are always posting their help screens to answer questions in BIAB, which is of no use to me because the RB screens are not the same. Because I started from day 1 with RB, RB is as natural for me as BIAB is for the old timers who never used RB.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
I know that there are "features" in RB that are "unique" to the program, but as a DAW it is weak (to say it gently).
Once I suggested that I would not be against if both programs are re-done (properly) and merged into one, with ALL the features modular. You need them-you add them to the work environment. If not, you "un-click" them and they do not bother you any more. As expected, it was met with skepticism.
Oh well, I still think that merging them is a good idea
All roads lead to RealTracks RealDrums MidiSuperTracks RealDrumCharts MidiTracks. We don't all travel the same road but we end up in the same place. I have always used RealBand but too many bugs n crashing has moved me up a notch the the Plugin as I can MultiRiff in it directly in any DAW without crashing and bugs, though I'm am very thankful that there was a RealBand. The Plugin will bring a whole new user base to PG as RealBand don't work on Mac and most pro audio users are on a Mac.
I wanted to like RB, but it seemed slow and unstable, and not worth the time to figure out what the issues were since I already had a DAW that worked great. I didn't see anything in RB that I wasn't able to already get with the toolchain I was using.
Does RB works for you? That's awesome for you. As long as you're making the music you want, that's all that matters.
Band in a box, then use reason 10 for midi & sound forge for mixing. Don't really use RB as I've never really wanted to change from the format I've used
I've always liked to keep my apps separate. So I use BiaB for auto accompaniment, Power Tracks Pro Audio for a DAW, a very old Master Tracks Pro for MIDI sequencing, and a very old Encore for Notation.
This summer when gigging gets slow, I'm installing Cakewalk and if I like it I'll keep it.
Keeping my tools separate is just one of my personal quirks.
Hi I think many of the perceived problems folks find in RB or working in multiple programs in general. Is that at some stage after importing you are going to need to save, at this point you need to make your mind up where you are going next. All daws including RB have a native format that will save the whole project as it is and retain for further editing by that program . in RB it is a. SEQ file in Cakewalk it is a cakewalk project file .CWP.
Lett’s say you have a BIAB song that you then open in RB If you save say a RB editing session as a BIAB file it will not save all the info,unless you save it as a SEQ. There is no magic bullet like always converting to midi as midi does not itself support many things found in DAWs like Chord data.
So what I am trying to say is once you find a work flow that carries along in a logical sequence to you, from one piece of software to the other don’t try and go backwards Or you will likely lose something on the way.
I might also say there is a lot of difference between opening and importing and saving, saving as, and exporting, when working in multiple software. Just my thoughts Mike
It's difficult to pinpoint, it is just not very intuitive to my old and tired mind. I'll try again soon and list the mental hurdles as I come to them.
My elementary teachers were not trained to recognize dyslexia so I've suffered difficulty reading all of my life. I learn by watching and I intend watch the tutorials when I can find the time. (chortle)
Peter and Callie keep me busy backstage and I love them for it!
I’m guessing that a lot of us who use BIAB and don’t use RB, do so because we started using BIAB back in the days when there were no Real Drums and no Real Tracks let alone a Real Band and already had our studio work flows well established by the time Real Band came along.
Biab every time for speed to audition styles, try opening an artist performance track (from song and lessons folder) in both Baib and RB and speed difference is huge, think the audio track is missing in RB as well.
RB has its place for multi generation of tracks that biab can't match.
Other than the above I find biab is a far more fun program to use than RB. You don't really know what it is going to throw at you next time you open it and what inspiration you can get from this.
Windows 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Band in a Box 2024, Cubase 13, Cakewalk and far too many VST plugins that I probably don't need or will ever use
Don Gaynor:"I especially like the fact that RB has 48 tracks and volume automation. I could definitely find use for that feature. As a work-around, I create several soloists in BB then manipulate them with F5 (bar settings). Obviously, it would be much easier in RB."
___________________________________
There's something you may want to try to overcome the perception of the 8 track limit of BIAB and it's a feature and not a workaround. Each channel of the BIAB mixer can have as many as 10 different instruments assigned to it during a song. A song can have up to 70 instruments.
That's actually the minimum you would have using the medley feature. By committing to finished sub mixes/groups/busses, the instrument count can easily exceed 100 and occupying dozens of tracks.
I have composed and posted several songs created using this method where all of the tracks were chosen, generated, mixed and Fx's added without ever leaving the BIAB program for the backing track. "My Sad Story" is one example.
There are several ways to access the medley feature and medleys can be programmed to alternate or change instruments by part marker, designated number of bars, chorus or manually enter the changes.
All of the instruments of a medley song can be selected to play individually or to play simultaneously.
PGMusic has expanded the medley capability in the 2019 version and added some preset medley RealTrack selections.
The variations of the Medley feature are nearly limitless and offer as much opportunity as you'll get using RealBand. You will not have the visual tracks view of RB and it's not quite as intuitive as RB or any other DAW but then, BIAB is not a DAW so it should not be expected.
BIAB does an excellent job of cross fading between the instrument changes and also selecting complementary audio phrases between the two instruments for realistic changes of one instrument ending as the other begins. You'll find in some instances, during a change, both instruments will sound so you get a very human sounding pass off of one instrument to another as both instruments are playing simultaneously. Variations of audio levels between two instruments can be automated in the bar settings by using the 'Change by' command in the drop down menu under Volume Changes. In the Bar Settings Menu is where you also make manual instrument changes. Select the bar you wish for the change to occur, open Bar Settings (F5) and select the RealTracks Button to access a list of all the RealTracks. Follow the prompts to make RT changes back and forth at selected bars. For instance, change a RT acoustic guitar for a Banjo at bar 6 and then select bar 10 and change the banjo to a pedal steel. The result is bars 1-5 play the guitar, 6-10 play the banjo and the remainder of the chorus plays the pedal steel. Use the Volume Changes Menu for the track to balance any volume differences between the instruments.
The easiest way to access the Medley feature is to search in StylePicker filtered for Medley and choose one from the list and audition how it plays.
The quickest way to create a custom medley is using the RealTracks Picker Dialog and selecting the Medley Button in the upper right corner. Follow the prompts to create the medley and how the various instruments will play.
Don Gaynor:"I especially like the fact that RB has 48 tracks and volume automation. I could definitely find use for that feature. As a work-around, I create several soloists in BB then manipulate them with F5 (bar settings). Obviously, it would be much easier in RB."
___________________________________
There's something you may want to try to overcome the perception of the 8 track limit of BIAB and it's a feature and not a workaround. Each channel of the BIAB mixer can have as many as 10 different instruments assigned to it during a song. A song can have up to 70 instruments.
That's actually the minimum you would have using the medley feature. By committing to finished sub mixes/groups/busses, the instrument count can easily exceed 100 and occupying dozens of tracks.
I have composed and posted several songs created using this method where all of the tracks were chosen, generated, mixed and Fx's added without ever leaving the BIAB program for the backing track. "My Sad Story" is one example.
There are several ways to access the medley feature and medleys can be programmed to alternate or change instruments by part marker, designated number of bars, chorus or manually enter the changes.
All of the instruments of a medley song can be selected to play individually or to play simultaneously.
PGMusic has expanded the medley capability in the 2019 version and added some preset medley RealTrack selections.
The variations of the Medley feature are nearly limitless and offer as much opportunity as you'll get using RealBand. You will not have the visual tracks view of RB and it's not quite as intuitive as RB or any other DAW but then, BIAB is not a DAW so it should not be expected.
BIAB does an excellent job of cross fading between the instrument changes and also selecting complementary audio phrases between the two instruments for realistic changes of one instrument ending as the other begins. You'll find in some instances, during a change, both instruments will sound so you get a very human sounding pass off of one instrument to another as both instruments are playing simultaneously. Variations of audio levels between two instruments can be automated in the bar settings by using the 'Change by' command in the drop down menu under Volume Changes. In the Bar Settings Menu is where you also make manual instrument changes. Select the bar you wish for the change to occur, open Bar Settings (F5) and select the RealTracks Button to access a list of all the RealTracks. Follow the prompts to make RT changes back and forth at selected bars. For instance, change a RT acoustic guitar for a Banjo at bar 6 and then select bar 10 and change the banjo to a pedal steel. The result is bars 1-5 play the guitar, 6-10 play the banjo and the remainder of the chorus plays the pedal steel. Use the Volume Changes Menu for the track to balance any volume differences between the instruments.
The easiest way to access the Medley feature is to search in StylePicker filtered for Medley and choose one from the list and audition how it plays.
The quickest way to create a custom medley is using the RealTracks Picker Dialog and selecting the Medley Button in the upper right corner. Follow the prompts to create the medley and how the various instruments will play.
Thanks Charlie,
I'm working on one today and will employ your suggestion.
PGMusic just posted a new video about using the Medley features Donnie. It demonstrates and shows how easy it is to access and use. It may help you a bit.
PGMusic just posted a new video about using the Medley features Donnie. It demonstrates and shows how easy it is to access and use. It may help you a bit.
Hey Charlie, I tried to watch that video but was given a message when I got there that it's private. What's up with that?
BTW, in response to the poll, I mostly use BiaB. Though I've dabbled with RB, I haven't gotten comfortable enough yet with it for me to use it on a more regular basis. I'll get there eventually, though.
Add updated printing options, enhanced tracks settings, smoother use of MGU and SGU (BB files) within PowerTracks, and more with the latest PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 update!
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Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
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A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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