|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 34
Enthusiast
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 34 |
So I've been playing folk guitar for many years, and have been learning jazz guitar for the last 2.
It's difficult for me, and I can play solo for myself but am in no way ready to play solo for others. I've been using BIAB backing tracks for old jazz standards and have gotten it down to just drums and bass, with me playing melody and improv.
So I finally got the nerve to play for a group as background at an art exhibition with BIAB on my laptop for bass and drums background.
I think it went very well and I got many compliments. But in the back of my mind I feel like in some way I'm cheating, because I didn't use live musicians and I can't play that as a solo artist. I feel like I'm cheating the many fine jazz guitarists who don't need backing tracks, or the live musicians who could be backing me.
Am I being overly sensitive or is this an ok way to play for people? BTW, BIAB with real tracks makes some awesome backing tracks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 547
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 547 |
I play solo shows using backing tracks. Some people may call it cheating but I just call it being a smart businessman. Not every place can afford to hire a full band. If you can give them the illusion of a full band at a soloist's price they are overjoyed.
On a similar note I was listening to a podcast the other week where they were saying that even the big named artists in country music are using backing tracks. They said people want to go to a concert and hear what they hear on the album. In order to do that the band will play to a track since so much of what's on the album is overdubbed and edited. So I guess if the big shots are doing it then it's not cheating.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 34
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 34 |
Thanks, I hear what you're saying. Glad there's others playing gigs with backing tracks. I think a lot of what's bothering me is that I can't play these as a solo jazz guitarist without a backing track. So I'm thinking I shouldn't be playing at all in public until I get to that level which could be years or forever.
If my laptop broke went out I'd be screwed. On the other hand, I think of some of the greatest guitar players like Freddie Green who never even took solos, they just backed up the band. But a real band.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,523
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,523 |
Well...who would not like to have a "real" band?
I want Gregg Bissonette to play drums...well he played for Ringo Starr last year
I want William "Billy" Sheehan to play bass...I know he is a old guy but younger than me...lol
I want Paul English to play B3...another old guy from Houston, Texas
I want Itzhak Perlman an Israeli-American violinist Because he is one of the nicest people you will ever meet and he can play anything
While I am wishing for stuff I can not have I want the The Memphis Horns to come back to life and send Gary Moore down from heaven to play lead guitar.
Oh, by the way, I want 250K per musician per hour to play. Well...why not?
How is it possible for one guy to "cheat" playing to a backing track? What's up with that. Is singing to a backing track cheating? You can't have a real vocal without having a real band? You can't have a real guitar solo without a real band?
This is all a bunch of nonsense. Go play your guitar to who ever will listen backed up by what ever you got at that moment and charge as much as you can get!!!
Best of luck,
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment
If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,567
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,567 |
I think for small gigs like you describe, if the venue knows what's up and, to some degree, the crowd too then it is def not cheating. I know some folks on this forum are able to do local gigs and use backing tracks. If the audience is coming to see art or to dance they may not care.
On the other hand, I don't think backing tracks work if folks are coming to see the performer specifically. I know personally, if I am paying to see an artist perform I definitely do not want them to play prerecorded material!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,523
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,523 |
The truth of the matter is, lots of big well known acts in today's world are using backing tracks in live gigs. Good, bad, or ugly, it is what it is.
The singer with the guitar that is buried in the mix or not even plugged in is becoming more common.
Electronics in general are being used more and more. Bruce Springsteen has been catching hell for using teleprompters so he can remember the lyrics to his own songs.
How is that any different than Jimmy Reeds wife standing on stage telling Jimmy the words to his songs?
The way money is made for big bands has changed. They use to go on the road to promote an album. Now they go on the road to make their money and they want the best sound that they can produce.
In today's world music is becoming more and more based on appearance, showmanship,visual impact, sonic impact. Walls of amps and speakers you see on stage are frequently fake. Real or memorex, who cares!! lol
This all comes down to what you personally want to be involved in. Real or recorded, there is plenty of room for both.
I personally think the issue is less about electronic support than being dishonest about it use. I would prefer bands like U2 and the Stones to just say we are using backing tracks to get a better sound, get over it!!
Cheers,
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 03/04/19 04:30 PM.
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment
If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,567
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,567 |
Yeah, I've read that Paul McCartney has a teleprompter built into his piano. And you said "Bruce Springsteen has been catching hell for using teleprompters" which just proves my point that people are looking for authenticity in a performance from a pro like Bruce! But having lyrics on a tele is a whole lot different than not actually singing, right? I mean, if you're OK with backing tracks because the quality is better, why not just lip synch to the studio version of the songs like they did in the 60s? And then, if you're gonna have that, why should the star even have to show up? Just play their CD for the concert!  Obviously there is a line there somewhere where it ceases to be a live show but we might not all agree on where that line is. For me, the second a performer starts singing and drums start playing without a drummer I'm calling *FAKE*! And as I said, I simply will never pay to watch someone "perform" with prerecorded tracks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,283
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,283 |
This all comes down to what you personally want to be involved in. Real or recorded, there is plenty of room for both.
I personally think the issue is less about electronic support than being dishonest about it use. I would prefer bands like U2 and the Stones to just say we are using backing tracks to get a better sound, get over it!! Cheers, Billy In reading your comment above and contemplating this topic it seems to me now there's a point where a concert one spends good money to attend is actually a total performance as expected by the group or just a simulation of backing tracks?....or both? Adding lots of colorful video for the big screens to distract from any backing track perception by the critical listeners? I portend that trend (backing tracks) will become more mainstream if it isn't already. I may be revealing my ignorance here. But...I'm old and come from an antiquated perspective. In the live venue...it'a all about the band's performance. Hence, I may have a more hard line stance for my preference and what I'd spend money on. A simulation in any aspect isn't one of them.  Is it "cheating"....to each their own take on it works for me. Carry on....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 03/04/19 07:05 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 734
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 734 |
A friend is using backing tracks currently.
I have not seen anyone reacting poorly to the fact his is not using a full band.
...Deb
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,988
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,988 |
as long as I am playing my bit live its not cheating. i'm a singer who plays guitar and both vocal and guitar are live. and the backing tracks i use are all created by me. harmonies are me singing in the recording too.
so its all me - just some of it pre-prepared. and the audience want entertainment not musical puritanism.
i've played live in bands in the past and you do miss the telepathy when you signal the rest of the band to 'go round again' but at least the drummer doesn't go off with strange women in the interval.................
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,814
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,814 |
I have two different opinions on this depending on the venue.
1-for a duo or single performer using backing tracks in a venue that can not afford a full band then that is not cheating IMHO. That place would not have any music if it wasn't for that performer and his backing tracks.
2-I am against big name performers in large venues that charge a lot of money to get in using backing tracks, pyrotechnics, and/or distracting videos. (live videos of the performing artists are OK). I want to hear how the musicians play live, like in the good ol' days, not see a fake show.
YMMV
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,326
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,326 |
It's certainly not cheating to use backing tracks. It's a matter of economics. If the venue is small, they can't afford to pay for a band. In addition, the musican's quality or talent level is top notch professional with BB tracks. You can't often find the level of professionalism with local musicians that you get from BB tracks.
I don't play live anymore, but if I did, I would not hesitate to use BB tracks. I record in the studio and more than once, when I post on a site other than here, I have had people ask me who is playing on my tracks because they are really good.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 321
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 321 |
I have two different opinions on this depending on the venue.
1-for a duo or single performer using backing tracks in a venue that can not afford a full band then that is not cheating IMHO. That place would not have any music if it wasn't for that performer and his backing tracks.
2-I am against big name performers in large venues that charge a lot of money to get in using backing tracks, pyrotechnics, and/or distracting videos. (live videos of the performing artists are OK). I want to hear how the musicians play live, like in the good ol' days, not see a fake show.
YMMV I totally agree with MarioD on this one. In addition, the majority of places that I play are very "volume sensitive", and really don't want a live band with drums, etc. I include the following when I'm soliciting a venue for a potential gig: I’m able get a full band sound by using High Quality Instrumental Accompaniments. My "virtual band" is quite popular and perfect for all venues, because I have complete control of the total volume. This works great in all settings--including “intimate” ones like restaurants and wineries--because it allows patrons to enjoy the music while still being able to converse, place orders, discuss various wines, food, etc. with the staff. Frank
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,129
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,129 |
I don't think using backing tracks is cheating as long as you're representing yourself as a "one man band".
Have you ever watched a lounge act with someone playing an arranger keyboard and pedal bass while singing or a karaoke performance? The idea is to perform and entertain the audience.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,097
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,097 |
If you go to a Paul McCartney concert, you don't get the same as you would 20-50 years past.
If you attend an Eagles concert today, it's not the same authentic Eagles anymore. The same can be said for a Drifters concert, Four tops or Temptations. None of the original members tour and in several of those groups, none of the original members are still alive, yet you can book or attend concerts by all these groups and you'll pay the ticket price as if they are legitimate and they'll be represented as being the real deal.
A year or so ago, I posted a video of the Jason Aldean FOH engineer giving their tour setup and according to the engineer, they were running servers, tracks, VST's VsTi's, pre-recorded BGV's and more than 255 Effects on the instruments and vocals. There were a ton of vocal effects on Aldean's voice alone including 4 separate compressors. At that concert, you were not hearing the 'real' and 'raw' Jason Aldean with just a 'little' reverb added. You heard tracks playing during times he may be dancing around or playing a difficult lead fill or solo. You were hearing pitch correction and auto tune, etc.
Billy is right, all major tours have backing musicians playing along with the stars, backing tracks, pre-recorded vocal parts, Pre-recorded BGV's and such. It's nothing new. Check out David Wills of ProAudio DVD's. He was a programmer and sound engineer for Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, Diana Ross and a ton of other major acts and even back then, they programed and choreographed every instance of every song.
Anybody that thinks it cheating likely hasn't done it and is unaware of the skill, timing and practice required to pull it off in a acceptable presentation. It's not easy to do and it requires lot's of practice and skill. It is hard work....
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,523
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,523 |
The biggest hoax in the history of backing tracks was produced by Frank Farian who I think is still alive and living here in Miami.
Milli Vanilli is a pretty sad story of two European kids who got caught up in a multi million dollar lie. It resulted in the death of Rob Pilatus, one of the two "lip sink"
singers. Frank sold this idea to Arista Records and I can not imagine that Clive Davis was not well aware of what was going on. Many law suits resulted from all this. Grammys were won and given back. But at the end of the day millions of dollars were made.
You would think after all this backing tracks and fake stuff would be less tolerated. In fact, they have just proliferated. If people will buy it, someone will sell it.
Cheating... the act or an instance of fraudulently deceiving. If I am standing playing guitar and drums, bass, and piano are coming through the PA who could I possible be fraudulently deceiving?
This is not an issue about using backing tracks, only about being deceptive about there use.
My take,
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment
If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,567
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,567 |
If you attend an Eagles concert today, it's not the same authentic Eagles anymore. The same can be said for a Drifters concert, Four tops or Temptations. None of the original members tour and in several of those groups, none of the original members are still alive, yet you can book or attend concerts by all these groups and you'll pay the ticket price as if they are legitimate and they'll be represented as being the real deal. True but many of the groups are in fact original members! I go see The Moody Blues every other year or so and they are original except for the flute player and they have a second drummer. One of the first things I do when considering seeing one of these old groups is check to see if the original singer and guitar players are in the lineup and if not...NOPE!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,073
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,073 |
Dictionary definition of cheating: “To act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.” Your situation certainly does not meet that definition. No worries. Enjoy your performances. Bud
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,169
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,169 |
I ask does it matter almost everyone these days is using something for assistance or methods to make them sound better live. In the good old days one stood there either alone or with several mates and knocked out a tune, had a good time and hoped for the best, it worked but now it can be much better.
I can recall back about 1974 we were doing a show as the second band to a guy that had a hit on the radio. He asked could we do the song so he could say “we don’t want to show up the local band”. Later that night they had a really nice harmony coming out and there was nobody at the mikes. (That I called cheating). He was however very upset we he discovered we were in fact getting paid more than he was. We did the same show the next year he was nowhere to be seen.
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home,
Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612
BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,414
PG Music Staff
|
|
PG Music Staff
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,414 |
I wouldn't say using backing tracks is cheating, personally. For a small time local musician, hiring a whole band isn't possible. We have the resources now, might as well use them. If you're a big name artist though and still using backing tracks, I'll find it questionable.
Cheers,
Deryk
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,620
Posts735,182
Members38,517
| |
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean