|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,122
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,122 |
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,352
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,352 |
Jim, thanks for the link, Very interesting.
I was working in that country some years ago and a motorist enthusiast was bragging about being able to reproduce items. He had a motoring magazine with a picture of a flash car with Mag Wheels. I asked him could he copy those wheels? His answer: 'We can copy whole %$#@* car'
Buyer beware.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,094
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,094 |
The safest thing is to buy from a factory authorized dealer.
Sweetwater, GC, or SamAsh is less likely to sell you a fake, since they order from Sure, Sennheiser, Gibson, Fender and so on.
The age old advice is "if the deal seems too good to be true... ... ..."
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,055
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,055 |
This begs a question...are these products comparable to the original? I'd never knowingly buy a rip off but remain curious as to their quality.
Bud
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,122
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,122 |
Many of these manufacturers get the seed money to start their factory by assembling the copied product as an Original Equipment Manufacturer, or OEM as it is more commonly known, for a well known western name brand.
The manufacturer provides a new assembly factory with engineering drawings, supply sources, quality standards and practices. The manufacturer likely even has one or more onsite personnel to assist with building the assembly line, onsite engineering, quality control as well as provide oversight.
The factory purchases more parts than is required to fill the OEM order. First shift will build the OEM product while the manufacturer's representative(s) are onsite. Assembly shifts to the factory's product while the manufacturer's representative is offsite.
As you can guess, under this model the factory can duplicate the build quality and workmanship the original manufacturer built their name and reputation on.
The next step happens when the standard of living reaches a certain point, labor becomes too expensive and environmental concerns too much to ignore. The OEM moves assembly to another country and repeats the process. The factories left behind adapt their business model or close down.
In addition to having a facility, trained workforce and supply line set up to create products for the world marketplace, many of these facilities now have young management and engineering teams trained in the US or other western countries. There are many students that are eager to return home and establish their own reputation.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
this is just part of working in a global economy where all of the players have different sets of rules. Some of this is down to us accepting electronic products made in China. It’s nearly unavoidable these days.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,055
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,055 |
As much as we use and like Amazon I would assume that electronic purchases from Amazon “associates” would run a signifant risk of this. Particularly when the product has a zillion specious reviews.
Bud
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,122
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,122 |
Bud, I don't know if you've heard of Alibaba but it is the world's largest retailer. Some say it is bigger than WalMart and Amazon combined. It is based in China but has operations in more than 200 countries. If you want to import Chinese hardware Alibaba's import/export website portal is an easy window into what is available. +++ HERE +++ is a 32 channel 4 bus mixing console available for $50 to $500 US depending on the lot size. The manufacturer, Guangzhou Samual Electronics Co., Ltd., can ship up to 500 units every month for as many months as you want. +++ HERE +++ is the Wikipedia blurb. It's interesting reading. +++ HERE +++ is a Wall Street Journal (WSJ) article that is good reading too. The WSJ article also directly addresses counterfeit products.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,055
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,055 |
Great info. Thanks. I had run across Alibaba on Apple News but had not taken the time to read it in depth.
Bud
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,095
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,095 |
For anyone that may be interested in throwing $50 away, the knockoff 32 channel 4 bus mixer Jim linked to on Alibaba appears to be an exact knockoff in appearance and specs to the Yamaha 32 Channel/4 Bus Audio Mixing Console model MG32/14FX which retails for $1,399.99 at all the big box music stores. I'm not sure that would actually be throwing $50 away if it works.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,352
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,352 |
Mr Yamaha wouldn't be impressed 
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,094
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,094 |
I know from being on the "Sax On The Web" forum for years that by far the vast majority of Chinese saxophones that replicate the great historic and modern saxes (sometimes with spelling errors) are cheap copies that are not worth the money spent on them. Thin brass, flimsy key-work, lousy intonation, and terrible tone.
I would assume the same for most electronics copies. Especially if the price is only a fraction of what they are copying.
I gig for a living and I depend on my gear. I won't take the chance on a product that has a high probability of being inferior. Failure on the gig is something that must be minimized.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,846
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,846 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,122
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,122 |
There are many YouTube videos pointing out differences in material, components, workmanship, fit and finish between "cheap knockoff instruments and "the real deal". However there are also some companies that do care about the product they produce and have learned the skills that they need to have to make good product. The problem for buyers is discovering the manufacturers that care. Likewise, the problem with those manufacturers is finding customers willing to pay enough for quality merchandise for the company to stay in business.
But counterfeit merchandise is really nothing new and it's not just musical instruments.
Seiko, Citizens and Rolex watches were fighting counterfeit watches in the seventies. All the major collegiate associations and professional sport teams have investigators combing online stores, third party ticket vendors and flea or night markets for counterfeit goods or tickets. So do most tour entertainment bureaus. There is a lot of money to be made with little risk.
Oh and Charlie, that $50 US price for the 32 channel 4 buss mixer is the price of each mixer when you order 500 units. That's 25,000 US + shipping costs + tariff and custom fees. If I bought one I'm not so sure I could sell the other 499 units to retrieve my investment.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,095
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,095 |
<<< Oh and Charlie, that $50 US price for the 32 channel 4 buss mixer is the price of each mixer when you order 500 units. That's 25,000 US + shipping costs + tariff and custom fees. If I bought one I'm not so sure I could sell the other 499 units to retrieve my investment. >>>
Lol, they wouldn't get my $50 if that were the single unit price although it would be fun to open one up and see what's really there.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,987
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,987 |
I recently sold my Shure SM-57 on eBay and the buyer really put me through the 3rd degree before committing. I sold it for $85, exactly what I had paid for it. A mute has little use for a microphone. lol
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,094
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,094 |
After years of torture and abuse, the Sennheiser MD-421 died. It's been my faithful friend since 1985, it's been dropped, rained on, and abused for almost 35 years. What did I do? I bought a brand new MD-421 II at Sweetwater (my local Mom & Pop store couldn't get one). I have no reservations about it being authentic or not.
Notes
Last edited by Notes Norton; 04/04/19 02:41 AM.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,578
Posts734,671
Members38,499
| |
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean