Hi all Your thoughts on this would be appreciated. There does not seem to be any integration with control surfaces for midi. Even for using simple midi learn or choice of controller for say standard midi controllers for mixing like cntr 7 vol, 10 pan, and the mute and solo buttons. It would be nice to have hands on hardware for even the basic mixer track functions in BIAB when using midi styles, and melody and soloist. Many of us have midi controller keyboards that do a lot more than send midi note data My own has 8 sliders, 8 buttons for mute, and solo, 8 programmable rotary continuous controllers, and 8 drum pads. Then you can have multiple pages of each . Auto map compatibility would be nice but mid learn would be fine. Can’t understand why we don’t have it. Or have I missed something?
Mike 48 key version shown I have the 61 same functions.
I started asking for this more than 15 years ago for my Tascam FW-1884. I now use a Behringer X-Touch. Neither works with BIAB.
The important request here is that BIAB should support the Mackie Control protocol; then all of these devices could work.
Note there is support for the old Frontier Design Tranzport (or at least there was; I haven’t checked in BIAB 2019 64-bit). This was something of a MIDI control surface as far as transport control. Pretty neat, actually. But not what you want.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
USB. There was a remote transmitter with about a 30-foot range on a short cord that plugs in to USB. [The only connection point on the unit itself is for an optional 1/4" footswitch.]
The software hasn't been updated since 2010 or so, and it was only 32-bit at that time. That indeed makes it OBE (Order of the British Empire?).
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Thanks. I was curious as the Tascam DP-24 (the first generation model with midi ports and CD) had some elementary midi control capability and it had me wondering if it was possible it may work with BIAB through a midi connection.
I still have a Tranzport and it's so basic and limited as to be useless to me.
In addition to many requests over the years for this I would add touch screen control to that. Hey, they finally did 64 bit so maybe a hardware controller interface and touch control could be coming too. Anything to make Biab not seem like it's an antiquated 30 year old piece of software would be good. It's not like these things are something new in the digital audio world...
Now that over 2 years have passed and we now have a lot more tracks available, have things changed? Is there some integration now with standards like Mackie ot HUI control interfaces?
“Musicians”: UltraPak 2024 DAW: StudioOne Pro 6.5 "Instruments": VSTs and REs Notation: Notion 6 Interface: NI Komplete Audio 6 Mic: RØDE NT1-A Controller: Panorama P6/KAWAI VPC1/Atom OS: Win 10 64 Pro
I still have a Tranzport also, but haven't used it with BIAB in many years. A decade or more. It was really only a start/stop remote.
Uncle Paul, no, BIAB 2022 has not changed to permit this. A few of us did have a discussion with the developers and I raised this directly. We did get an acknowledgement to revisit the Tranzport code and see if it might be adapted for the Mackie standard. I have a Presonus Faderport 8 and it would be amazing to use that in the BIAB mixer!
Note that BIAB 2022 did introduce the volume automation concept and that is a precursor to having a Mackie-type MIDI control surface work, so I take that a a hopeful sign. No promises, of course.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Wow, that Bome MIDI Translator takes me way back. For awhile, it was popularly used for controlling SONAR. I'm pleased to see it is still being updated. I took it off my PC when I stopped using SONAR.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
This topic has revived with the above latest 'wish' posted with no elaboration to any pro's to substantiate anything other than it being a 'wish'. It's better to discuss it here rather than interfere with the wish itself.
I need more information before I can support the wish so far. From the perspective of how most users complete a song, and with the primary use a generated BIAB track has in a song project, there's very little benefit or advantage that a control surface adds to the development of a BIAB track.
For instance. "Now that over 2 years have passed and we now have a lot more tracks available, have things changed? Is there some integration now with standards like Mackie ot HUI control interfaces?"
OK. Let's the discuss the benefits. We now have single channel volume automation. Why do we need an 8 channel X-Touch? It still makes more sense to me to export a BIAB track flat, centered and dry to a DAW that can use all of the features and tools of the X=Touch rather than start/stop of an expensive device.
My impression from posts in the BIAB Forum is BIAB tracks are overwhelmingly edited and completed in DAW's. That makes sense and down grades midi controllers usefulness to generating tracks because most discussions present a DAW is the better choice.
It seems that BIAB is better suited and used primarily as a tracking tool rather than a mixing tool. Most discussions I've read treat BIAB's one track at a time process as rudimentary, crude and outdated in comparison to the modern DAW.
While I agree this function is better for most users in a DAW, let me make a case for adding it into BIAB.
1. BIAB used to support this concept with the Frontier Design Tranzport 2. BIAB 2022 has already added better control of volume curves 3. BIAB has already added many more tracks 4. Providing fader control of those volume curves is the natural next step
For anyone who may not know what we're talking about, with a MIDI Control Surface, you set the track(s) you want to record levels on (arming the track for automation) and then, as the track(s) play back, you ride the fader control(s) to adjust the volume. Once your volume curve(s) are recorded, the song will now play back with the adjustments of levels you have added. Any good commercial DAW can do this.
However:
I'm a composer and arranger, and I do orchestration. I am constantly tweaking my songs, so I don't do much post-production (what is best done in a DAW to produce a radio-ready mix). I just make composer demos that the bands I play in can learn from before we perform the music live. It's very likely that, after a rehearsal, I come back to the song to make adjustments. So, I want to stay in BIAB as long as possible. I have the audiophile version because I am more inspired by having the best sound available as I compose. The natural next step is to be able to use faders and automate the volume curves so I hear all the tracks in my songs as I want them, while I am still composing them.
OK, so the way I use BIAB maybe doesn't apply to a large number of people. I get that. And I'm no fan of feature creep. But if BIAB users had a MIDI Control Surface and could easily do volume automation, I'll bet they would find it very useful, even essential. The Mackie Control standard would be sufficient; all the popular brands can emulate that. You'll see in my signature I use a Presonus Faderport 8. For BIAB, it just sits there unused.
Thanks for listening.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
The changes PG Music made in 2022 indicate that PG Music is trying to provide the tools a user need to keep a project "inside the Band-in-a-Box" for as long as possible. It is with that spirit in mind that I make the request.
Each track of the Band-in-a-Box audio mixer has controls for volume, panning, built-in reverb and tone. Some of each track's controls are more accessible than others. In particular, track tone controls are almost inaccessible to the point many users do not even realize the tone controls exist.
The main reason I like to use a surface control is because with physical controls I can concentrate on what I'm hearing, not on what I see. Try closing your eyes and use the computer mouse to change the panning of a track.
I see surface control as both adding value to the product and satisfying customers that want to use the feature.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Matt and Jim. I'm familiar with Control Devices and own or have owned several different brands and models of controllers and used others in live environments. If control surface capability is added to BIAB, I'll certainly embrace and use it. My earlier comments were made to learn more about how users will integrate into their workflow. As stated, what seems to be the current preferred method is to mix, edit, pan and level tracks in a DAW. It also appears controllers have limited appeal and benefit to BIAB from past experience and the lack of discussion and participation in the BIAB forums.
I agree with both Matt and Jim there's advantages to remain in BIAB as long as possible and in fact I complete my projects, those for fun and any serious project, solely in BIAB since around 2017 as far as I can determine. The reason I can do this is mostly my use of the Audio Editor, RealTrack Medley Maker, the Audio Track and the Artist Performance Track feature. The perception that BIAB was once limited to Seven Tracks and an Audio Track has never been a limitation or a barrier to publish songs consisting of dozens of instruments.
With these tools I can output a finished stereo mix indistinguishable from a DAW project and have as many instruments I want to include in my song, automate volume levels, panning and create professional grade smooth transitions, cross fades, fade in, fade out all with quality FX's like reverb, compression and eq.
My familiarity with both BIAB's advanced editing and mixing techniques and Midi Controllers make me lean toward the better work flow is to continue with BIAB for track generation and external DAWs and controllers to mix and automate these tracks.
In regard to Matt's tweaking, if it's limited to volume, panning, Fx, or EQ adjustments, there's no need to return from the DAW to BIAB for that task. If a track needs tweaking with multi riff or regeneration or even replacing an instrument or regenerating an entire song due to changing tempo, key signature , style or chord progression, there's no need for a midi controller. He has a controller and likely it would be convenient to his well established workflow but I don't know how that translates to the broader BIAB user base.
In regard to Jim's main purpose for a controller to pan a track with his eyes closed, I explained to him how to that in BIAB...
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A few excerpts:
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