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#531813 - 04/06/19 06:12 PM [RealBand] Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms?
Registered: 04/09/02
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Funkifized Offline
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How can I get horn parts from a .mid file to sound more human? All of the horns starting and stopping exactly together, with no change in dynamics, etc., makes them sound like a keyboard part. Surely there is a way to randomize the enterances and exits by a few midi clicks from each other, and set a decrescendo/crescendo to work on long notes to sound like a section.
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#531837 - 04/07/19 02:14 AM [RealBand] Re: Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms? [Re: Funkifized]
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DeaconBlues09 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Funkifized
How can I get horn parts from a .mid file to sound more human? All of the horns starting and stopping exactly together, with no change in dynamics, etc., makes them sound like a keyboard part. Surely there is a way to randomize the enterances and exits by a few midi clicks from each other, and set a decrescendo/crescendo to work on long notes to sound like a section.


Oh, abso-frikkin'-lutely it can do this!

The breadth of sophisticated options you have in this regard are dizzying. Check out the section titled something like "Intelligent Humanize of Melody/Soloist Track" under Chapter 10 (Working with MIDI).
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#531920 - 04/07/19 05:26 PM [RealBand] Re: Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms? [Re: Funkifized]
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Jim Fogle Offline
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Take a look at pages 97 through 101 of the 2019 RealBand User Manual for a very good overview of RealBand's MIDI editing tools with descriptions about how to use each one.
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#531946 - 04/07/19 09:42 PM [RealBand] Re: Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms? [Re: DeaconBlues09]
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Funkifized Offline
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Except I'm not trying to humanize the melody in BIAB, I'm trying to humanize horn parts in a midi file in RealBand. I'm not seeing anything that's helpful in this regard.
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#531947 - 04/07/19 09:45 PM [RealBand] Re: Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms? [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 04/09/02
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Funkifized Offline
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I'm not sure if I'm seeing the same thing you are. I don't see anything that is helpful at all in this regard. One problem is the horns are all on the same track. I don't know if they can be randomized in contrast to each other unless they're on different tracks. The manual is no help with this stuff.
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#532013 - 04/08/19 07:38 AM [RealBand] Re: Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms? [Re: Funkifized]
Registered: 12/27/03
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MarioD Offline
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Originally Posted By: Funkifized
Except I'm not trying to humanize the melody in BIAB, I'm trying to humanize horn parts in a midi file in RealBand. I'm not seeing anything that's helpful in this regard.


Here are a few suggestions:

1-have each horn on a separate track

2-nunge each track either slightly forward or backward. Do not move them so much that they are not in sync. Make them sound more like a chorusing effect.

3-for woodwinds add a little up pitch bend at the start of a few notes. Start the pitch bends a little lower and then bring them to pitch. Vary the depth and ending points of each woodwind track. Occasionally do the same for the horns.

4-add a little vibrato to some tracks. You can do this via the pitch wheel but some sound sources allow you to do this with the mod wheel.

5-add some volume changes to each track. Add crescendos and decrescendos where appropriate.

Some sound sources have individual horn/woodwind nuances assigned to specific notes.

Also how are you inputting these tracks? If by keyboard a breath controller is perfect for adding volume changes. I use an Akai EWI-USB wind controller. This way I can control the volume and pitch bends simultaneously.

I will gladly help you in any way that I can. Just PM me as I rarely view the threads here.
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#532058 - 04/08/19 01:08 PM [RealBand] Re: Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms? [Re: Funkifized]
Registered: 08/20/11
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Jim Fogle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Funkifized
I'm not sure if I'm seeing the same thing you are. I don't see anything that is helpful at all in this regard. One problem is the horns are all on the same track. I don't know if they can be randomized in contrast to each other unless they're on different tracks. The manual is no help with this stuff.


Huh?

Maybe we need to revisit your original question
Quote:
How can I get horn parts from a .mid file to sound more human?
The tools to edit MIDI tracks are described on pages 96 to 101 in the 2019 RealBand user manual.

While RealBand does have a MIDI event list editor (see screen shot) it is limited as compared to the MIDI event list editor in Band-in-a-Box. In BiaB you can filter by channel and then copy and paste each channel to an unused track in RealBand.


Attachments
Clipboard01.jpg


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#532065 - 04/08/19 02:46 PM [RealBand] Re: Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms? [Re: Funkifized]
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jford Offline
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If your horn parts are just a stacked chord on the same MIDI channel on the same track assigned to some brass instrument patch, then yes, you are going to have a lot of difficulty getting it to sound good.

As already stated, you need to separate out each of the parts into their own tracks and using separate MIDI channels (at least for synths that respond to specific channels).

Then you can start making changes on an instrument-by-instrument basis.

One thing you can try is to save the chorded horn part out to a MIDI file, then bring that file into a notation program that supports splitting out the parts from a chord. As I recall, Finale does this (but it's very expensive); however, I think I saw that MuseScore might do this as well (but have never tried it - a Google search seemed to say that it could). That way, you can get the parts separated into different tracks/channels. Bring it back into RealBand, assign your instruments, and make the changes as suggested here. It takes a lot of work, but the result should be worth it.
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#532077 - 04/08/19 04:02 PM [RealBand] Re: Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms? [Re: jford]
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MarioD Offline
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I don't use RB so I have to ask this question.
Does RB allow you to separate a MIDI track by notes? If so he then can assemble a track with what he thinks are the trumpet notes, sax notes, trumpet #2 notes etc. This technique is one that I use to separate drum kits.
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#532085 - 04/08/19 05:25 PM [RealBand] Re: Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms? [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 04/09/02
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Funkifized Offline
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I don't see anything on p. 96-101 that talks about changing the attack of notes, nor changing the dynamics, especially in parallel with other notes.
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#532090 - 04/08/19 05:33 PM [RealBand] Re: Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms? [Re: Funkifized]
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rharv Offline
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One way dynamics can be (crudely) limited is using the Data Filter.
You can set a MIN/MAX setting for the velocity of a MIDI track based on a given channel and note range.

The Data Filter is powerful if you can use it.
Most Edit windows offer the option to enable the Data Filter using a check box .. and a secondary one if needed.

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#532091 - 04/08/19 05:36 PM [RealBand] Re: Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms? [Re: jford]
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Funkifized Offline
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I have Finale. I've got the woodwinds separated into separate tracks into RealBand. There must be some way to randomize the attacks of each instrument, no? And apply a template type of dynamic change to long notes played by the horn section?

These were entered from a .mid file that I didn't initiate.


Edited by Funkifized (04/08/19 07:01 PM)
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#532142 - 04/09/19 06:35 AM [RealBand] Re: Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms? [Re: Funkifized]
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jford Offline
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This may or may not work. You could load each MIDI track into BIAB (instead of RealBand), and then use the embellisher feature to humanize each one, save it back to MIDI (use a different file name so you don't lose your original source in case you have to do it again), and then bring it back into RealBand. A little extra work, but it might do what you are looking for.

Other than that, you'll just need to probably bring up the piano roll editor on each track and slightly offset start/stop times for notes, as well as adjust velocity and/or volume accordingly.

For what it's worth, I also made a feature request to add the embellisher feature to RealBand, but I suspect it will be quite a while before we would see it.
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#532325 - 04/10/19 12:26 PM [RealBand] Re: Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms? [Re: Funkifized]
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Funkifized your problem is you have a bad midi file. You're trying to put gold sparkled lipstick on that pig. Go to any one of the good commercial midi file sites and buy a proper file for five or six bucks. It's all about how the file was created. Good ones have all that built in.

If you insist on trying to fix it then RB is the wrong DAW for this. Other DAW's do have a built in humanizing utility with presets. RB will allow you to do it but it'a all manual labor done track by track and note by note.

Bob
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#533484 - 04/19/19 10:59 AM [RealBand] Re: Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms? [Re: jazzmammal]
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Funkifized Offline
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Well, the idea was to do my own file in RB, not have to buy .mid files from others.

And I'm not even seeing any way of doing this note-by-note. How does one edit .mid information in RB?


Edited by Funkifized (04/19/19 11:01 AM)
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#533495 - 04/19/19 01:48 PM [RealBand] Re: Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms? [Re: jazzmammal]
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Funkifized Offline
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Aren't we supposed to be able to create and/or edit midi files in Real Band? It's a sequencer, no?
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#533496 - 04/19/19 01:53 PM [RealBand] Re: Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms? [Re: Jim Fogle]
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Funkifized Offline
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I'm not seeing any such overview of midi editing tools.
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#533522 - 04/19/19 04:53 PM [RealBand] Re: Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms? [Re: Funkifized]
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MarioD Offline
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Check the piano roll view (PRV), notation and/or the event list. All three will let you edit MIDI.

PS - I do not use RB so others will have to help you further. I know in my DAW, Studio One Pro 4, I use the PRV for virtually all of my MIDI editing. YMMV
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#533581 - 04/20/19 08:17 AM [RealBand] Re: Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms? [Re: Funkifized]
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2bSolo Offline
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You can edit in Notation or Piano Roll.

A few notes of caution about this.

1. Be absolutely sure you have all the chords, part markers and bar settings the way you want them before you start editing. Also, tempo and number of measures. In Song Settings, uncheck the box Create 2 Bar Ending. If you change any of these, your edits are gone.

2. Be sure you unfreeze the track you want to edit.

3. Freeze that track after you edit.

4. Keep all other tracks frozen.

5. Save the file. OFTEN.

I learned this the hard way, so take it from a fool who knows.

If you do these things, it isn't hard. Good luck.

2b
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#533589 - 04/20/19 08:57 AM [RealBand] Re: Arranging horns: Humanizing rhythms? [Re: Funkifized]
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rharv Offline
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If you want old school MIDI event editing, indeed use the Event List.
If you want finer control over what you are editing, enable the Data Filter when doing MIDI edits.

As mentioned the Notation and Piano Roll windows also offer editing options.
Yes, RB is a sequencer.
As such, even Audio tracks appear to be initially triggered by MIDI events in the Event List.

That's one reason I often suggest setting the Resolution as high as your system can handle reliably; more accurate Audio editing by virtue of smaller slices allowed in the Selection/Edit/Move options.

For some this may be no big deal, but here it is well worth taking advantage of when working with Audio .. with MIDI maybe not so much, but still technically allows more accurate edits. You can trigger a MIDI event with 1/3480 accuracy per beat as opposed to the 1/120 accuracy RB defaults to (and I think BiaB forces you to use).

Event List for Audio track and MIDI track shown below.



Attachments
AudioEventList.jpg

MIDIEventList.jpg




Edited by rharv (04/20/19 09:48 AM)
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Fixed: Some Bass and Nylon Guitar RealTracks (including 2718, 2724, 2722, 2725, 2719) have RealCharts added.
Fixed: Several Piano and Organ MIDI SuperTracks have been edited to remove spurious MIDI events (e.g. mod wheel sometimes caused 'warbling' effect).
Updated: PDF and help (routine cleanup/updaes).
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box might crash when opening a song that contains note-based lyrics.
Fixed: Lyrics would not display in the Big Lyrics if "Show chord symbols above the lyrics" was enabled.
Fixed: Bar Lyrics and Section Text layers do not line up with bars in Notation window if there are repeats in song, and fake sheet mode is enabled.
Fixed: Possible crash if editing a text layer while using the floating Notation Window.
Fixed: "There is no audio file currently recorded" error message when using Audio > Plugin.
Fixed: If using the 64 bit version of Band-in-a-Box, the BB2Go window would display an erroneous QuickTime version, and converting files to .m4a would fail. QuickTime is only available for the 32 bit version, but is only required if using Windows Vista or earlier.
Fixed: Sforzando might not automatically be added to the VST list, causing Hi-Q patch selection to fail.
Fixed: [Video] > Render Video(s)... menu item should launch the Make Chordsheet Video dialog if Video RealTracks export is not available.
Fixed: When choosing a compressed format for rendering files, and "One file per track" is enabled, the resulting files are .wav format instead of the compressed format.
Fixed: Dragging a single track to export MIDI causes that track to be permanently soloed.
Fixed: The About dialog said 'for Macintosh' instead of 'for Windows'.
Fixed: StylePicker: User Category list wasn't refreshing after choosing a new user category.
Changed: Default the 'include similar styles in the stylepicker' to false each bootup.
Fixed: melodists were getting quantized incorrectly.
Fixed: Rebuilding styles list was causing errors sometimes.
Fixed: Clicking OK in the MIDI/Audio Driver Setup dialog should not close the floating Mixer window.
Fixed: Applying audio effects using Audio > Plugins would fail with error "Plugin cancelled. Original file is preserved".
Fixed: Audio will not import to a custom position if there is already audio on the Audio track.
Fixed: Audio > Edit Audio > Timeshift Audio would crash the program if the Audio Edit window was not open.
Fixed: Close button in Select chorus start/end dialog should behave like Cancel, ie user clicking on bar afterwards shouldn't do anything.
Fixed: Wrong notes on Oohs and Aahs RealTracks.

Summary of changes for Band-in-a-Box DAW Plugin 1.16.29:
Fixed: bounds when highlighting in chord sheet
Fixed: make selected cell at the end after pasting
Fixed: some styles not dragging all tracks from blue button
Fixed: losing focus in chord sheet
Fixed: plugin stops playing non-synced tracks when closing and then opening plugin
Fixed: track text not resizing correctly
Fixed: C#7b5b9b13 to chord sheet
Fixed: Audio stutters when resizing plugin in some DAWs
Fixed: auto gen after open feature not working in Studio One 4
Fixed: Open dialog in infinite loop
Fixed: Alert window buttons "punch hole" when pressed
Fixed: distortion when stopping playback in pro tools
Fixed: Verify folders before each call to Biab
Fixed: Send space bar keystrokes to DAW
Fixed: Added message if attempting to drag tracks before generating
Fixed: Transpose not working
Added: shift-arrows to select in chord sheet
Added: SHIFT-TAB to go backwards in chord sheet, TAB to go forward
Added: SHIFT-ENTER to go backwards in chord sheet
Added: copy selected cell if nothing highlighted
Added: support for all Biab file types

New Left-Handed & Student View Guitar Window in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows!

With Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows, the Guitar window has been remade and now supports the left-handed (in addition to right-handed) guitar and student view!

The student view is the view a student (or YouTube video watcher) would have of the (right-handed) guitar facing him with the head at the right and low notes at the top. There's also a left-handed student view, so all 4 possible views are supported.

To change the view, press the [Guitar] toolbar button to open the Guitar window and then the [Settings] button.

See this new feature in action when you jump to the "Left-Handed & Student View Guitar Fretboard" topic in our 2020 New Features video: Click here...

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