HI ALL I can’t think of a better place to ask this question as I know many of you will have strong views on this. What is the difference between real country music and modern country music and where does it merge. Is it dependent on the instruments used or the lyrics, style of music. Would I be right in thinking that Hank Williams , Hank Snow, George Straits, George Jones, Alan Jackson, Patsy Cline, etc are what you would call Real country So what is modern country example ? And where do you put folks like Slim Witman. Sure this will bring forth a host of opinion. Look forward to your thoughts even controversial ones. Mike
I think more than anything else that it's just perspective and personal opinion. I wouldn't say modern country is any less real. I would say, at least in my opinion, it's more accurate to say traditional country versus modern country. I think what makes something more "traditional" is country that follows the classic stereotypes, where modern can have some of those traditional elements but still plays around and experiments a little bit and brings in something new or unexpected.
Last edited by Ember - PG Music; 04/06/1908:06 AM.
I really don't have personal answers for this discussion... But I'll be curious enough to check back to see where folk place Slim Whitman in this discussion He had a unique & not unpleasant voice but I wouldn't know what category to place him.
Many of us in the forum are old enough to remember when the Opry banned drums from stage because they weren’t “country”. Flat and Scruggs broke up in part because Scruggs wanted to introduce electric bass into their music and Lester thought that wouldn’t be Real bluegrass. I think I’ll leave this dog lie.
Many of us in the forum are old enough to remember when the Opry banned drums from stage because they weren’t “country”. Flat and Scruggs broke up in part because Scruggs wanted to introduce electric bass into their music and Lester thought that would be Real bluegrass. I think I’ll leave this dog lie.
Keith,
You may be interested to learn that Randy Mason, Brent's brother, is the house drummer at Ryman Auditorium, home of the Grand Ole Opry.
The responses to your question should be interesting reading. First do you mean live or recorded music? My answer is geared toward recorded music because it's the recording publicity people and media programmers that stick genre names on not just recordings but also the artists and entertainers. Those decisions determine how artists and their recordings are marketed.
To me it's song arrangement, instrumentation, how tracks are recorded and how a recording is mixed and mastered as much or more than the song or artist. (Note: for this conversation I'm treating vocalists as instruments. A good vocalist will adapt and embellish to fit into the song production.) Modern artists can and do record real country but it sounds different than the recordings of decades ago. However, many real country artists have released modern country material without success since they have a difficult time developing a feel for the songs, arrangements and production. Even when they do succeed many times the listening audience is not accepting of the change.
Real country music, versus classic country music, has its roots in genres now called Old Timey, Bluegrass, Blues, Ragtime, Rockabilly, Hawaiian, Western Swing, and Folk. Current country music adds elements of Rock, Pop, Rap, Funk and Hip Hop into the mix.
Genre labels can be very loose as numerous examples demonstrate. Classic country artists Jerry Lee Lewis and Johnny Cash are in both the Country Music and Rock & Roll halls of fame. The Charlie Daniels Band is enshrined in the Country Music Hall of Fame. Singer/Entertainer Charlie Rich burned the card announcing John Denver as Country Entertainer of the Year on an award show broadcast on live television. Charlie Rich believed John Denver was a pop artist, not country.
Four good examples to listen to as a positive demonstration of production changing everything are the artists Don Williams, Conway Twitty, Johnny Horton and Jim Reeves. (Interesting non related side note, did you know heart throb singer Michael Bolton began his career as the lead singer of a heavy metal band?) Each of these singers re-recorded songs they recorded early in their career and it's the re-recorded version that is more well known.
You may be interested to learn that Randy Mason, Brent's brother, is the house drummer at Ryman Auditorium, home of the Grand Ole Opry.
I didn’t know that Don. As much as there has been resistance in some parts of Nashville to change in the genre, what makes money and what the artists want to play is what determines what is heard. I can’t tell you how many times I introduced more modern country songs into my act and heard my wife call out “Stop playing that Heavy Metal” while I was practicing.
Country Music has gone through so many evolutions and revolutions that to put a demarcation between the end of one style and the beginning of another is IMO hardly possible. Plus the question is a bit loaded as it implies that modern country is not “real.” Were one to actually define real I think whatever the definition one would find elements of it in today’s country and Americana. Maybe not topping the charts but available if you look.
[quote=Don Gaynor][ Keith, I can’t tell you how many times I introduced more modern country songs into my act and heard my wife call out “Stop playing that Heavy Metal” while I was practicing.
Traditional country, hill music, was transformed by AM radio, Grand Old Oprey, (the Mecca,) the record business, in that order, incrementally. Rock and Roll, Rockabilly, and Southern Rock in the 60's, becoming more bluesy and daring both in subject matter and performers public personas. I think modern entered the picture first as crossover then as a genre directed at broadening the audience. That was about 1) sales and 2) the shrinking world. Just a casual and impartial observer, speaking.
I don’t know a single thing about this genre (came to be educated) so I don’t have anything to offer except a joke I remember hearing. In traditional country, your wife and dog leave you. In modern country, your dog comes back.
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Well some interesting replies Mind you I often wondered how those cowboys rode a horse and played a Guitar and sang at the same time! I guess for me I am a bit stuck in shall we say older country music and artist that I grew up with some even on a wind up gramophone. Chet Atkins, Hank Snow, Patsy Cline, and others that I mentioned earlier. Then later say Jim Reeves, Dolly Parton. Kenny Rogers, and so on. I can see that it has evolved along the way from Blue grass, Honky-tonk and what I loosely term cowboy ballads. With many crossovers along the path, artist as well like Taylor Swift.
Some one once said to me that country music was all lying dyeing, cheating and crying, Full of lost lovers dead or lame horses or dogs all in all a miserable lot. Oh and don’t forget the railroad and trains. There is a whole lot of good stuff out there, that’s for sure for any taste, Mike
I have to say this is easily one of the most respectful conversations around this topic I've seen (here or elsewhere).
There is a lot I could say here; but there are hints of what I would say in much of what has already been said; some in previous posts on the forum as well.
I think Floyd sums it up pretty well when saying more traditional country is all about the story. Modern country is more like a slogan based style of music.
I very specifically said "modern" and not "current" when saying that. There are actually many more traditional country songs that are currently being made. They may not get as much radio play; but some of them do. I guess it's what you look for.
From what I've seen; many times when comparing the two time frames of music; they compare extremes. They will take some that is REALLY traditional and compare it to something that is VERY pop country. Very seldom will they take a traditional country song from years back and compare it to a traditional country song of today. They also seem to forget some of pop country form "back in the day." I've never figured out why people do that.
Usually in this discussion someone posts the video of how "all" current country sounds the same. Unfortunately they used pitch and time alterations to make that happen. People who don't normally listen to that style use it as "proof" of how it all sounds the same. I truly believe you could pick pretty much any period of time, do the same thing they did, and make a similar point. I'm not arguing that it doesn't sound similar...but that's what genres are. lol
Speaking of genres; I would say countries current state is pretty diverse. Bud on the forums described Americana as "One Big Tent" with many sub-genres within that tent. I would agree. I also think that applies to rock music and country. There's just a lot going on in music right now.
This subject couldn't be more timely for me. I was driving this morning and had on, at least I thought I did, a local country radio station. I heard a little bit older song I like; but wasn't really paying attention either...until the next song came on. It was, I thought, a pop song. It sort of sounded a little like a current boy band type of sound that my daughters listen to. My first thought was "I thought I had a country station on; but...oh wait! It is a country station!" It's a song I started hearing over the last month and it's a Thomas Rhett song. I missed the intro; so I didn't know it was a country song. lol Anyway, here is the song...
Incidentally, Thomas Rhett's real name is "Thomas Rhett Akins." He is the son of the country singer Rhett Akins. His dad's name also happens to be "Thomas Rhett Akins." His dad went with "Rhett Akins"; and he went with "Thomas Rhett" to differentiate himself.
Here is one of his dad's bigger songs...
He was more of a mid-90's country guy. He still writes a fair amount; and much of it for and with others.
So country surely has different and aspects to it. I think the change is great. I also think the traditional is great.
I've always looked for appreciation in any music. If I don't like it; it doesn't mean "it sucks."
Anyway, production varies wildly. Some of the current stuff is VERY produced; others more "raw." Between the two; I would say there is much more produced though, overall, on the radio.
Believe it or not; the subject matter of the songs are still pretty similar. It's the delivery that has changed. There is still a lot about love; loss, drinking...what you would expect. I'm glad no one has brought up (until me now) "sugar shaker" and "bed of my truck." The first wasn't used much at all; the second was very much a theme...just pick ups in general. But I think that's always been.
Very good thread you started. I get where people may not like the genre. I never understand where someone would have problem with someone else liking it.
Last edited by HearToLearn; 04/07/1909:43 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
Thomas Rhett is an interesting example of where modern country is progressing. He's college educated, writes many (maybe all) of the songs he records. Because the songs he sings are about the lifestyle of twenty somethings his audience can easily relate to him and his songs.
Thomas Rhett is an interesting example of where modern country is progressing. He's college educated, writes many (maybe all) of the songs he records. Because the songs he sings are about the lifestyle of twenty somethings his audience can easily relate to him and his songs.
Actually he's involved in the writing. He has a GOOD number of writers he works with. One of which, is his dad. But, yes...many of his songs pull from life experiences.
Usually, in country music...actually, a lot of radio music...if someone is talking about a song they wrote; there are other writers involved. The funny thing is; I'm frequently surprised at how many will say "Oh I know" but don't think that's the case with the songs THEY like. Funny how that works. That being said; country at least mentions the writers fairly often and even give awards to them. That impresses me.
Producers...now that's a different story. He's worked with a number of them but really gravitates towards Dann Huff and Jesse Frasure. Dann's the man.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
A quote in Rolling Stone mag regarding the ACM awards.
"The through-line of the broadcast, however, was the forcefulness with which this year’s ACMs leaned toward country traditionalism. Singers like Chris Stapleton (“A Simple Song”) and Luke Combs (“Beautiful Crazy,” featuring Amanda Shires on fiddle) favored balladry more than usual, and the genre’s fondness for old-time religion also came back into play.”
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