|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,113
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,113 |
Afternoon folks, I know someone here will know the answer to this  Are there copyright implications with quoting a line from someone else’s song? Totally different melody, but a sentence used in another song. Rest of the lyrics are original. Reason I’m asking is that my songwriting partner sent me back a demo of a new song we are working on, and one line from her lyric is a line used in another song. Very easy to change the lyric if needed, but it’s a cool line and would be nice to use it if we can. Thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,272
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,272 |
Hey Dave, it's hard to say. Length of the line and how common/uncommon the actual words are, play a lot into it. This may help? The Law
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 8
Newbie
|
|
Newbie
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 8 |
Many modern artist are doing the same thing, though not sure about the technicalities. They call it sampling.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,125
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,125 |
Many modern artist are doing the same thing, though not sure about the technicalities. They call it sampling. Sampling has come under much legal scrutiny lately. As with any activity sampling sort of flew under the radar until it reached a high enough level of popularity to be considered successful (feel free to substitute the term money maker for successful). Now many record labels, artists, artist agents and artist estates line up to sue on the grounds of copyright infringement anytime a recording containing non licensed samples even remotely becomes successful. Past recordings containing non licensed samples keep having their day in court over the same issue. There ain't no free ride and few free passes anymore but, if you own the copyright, that's a good thing.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,113
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,113 |
Guys, this has nothing whatsoever to do with sampling! That is not what I was asking about. Thanks for the link HTL, very helpful We have decided to change the lyric in question.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,945
PG Music Staff
|
|
PG Music Staff
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,945 |
These are just my personal thoughts, but you could always talk to a lawyer that specializes in the field. Then you'd know for certain, but there are probably some references online as well. I just don't know how true they would be depending on the source.
Cheers,
Ember
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,125
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,125 |
Dave,
I'm sorry I went off topic.
I was trying to help KennethSennet understand that from a legal standpoint it most likely dosn't matter if you are copying lyrics or audio samples. As the lawyer noted in the link HearToLearn posted it's still copying.
Again, I apologize.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,113
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,113 |
Absolutely no need to apologize Jim, it’s all good Lyric has already been rewritten, it actually fits the song better than the quote. Thanks everyone for your input!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,378
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,378 |
Now I have to know what the line was!!!! If it makes you feel better, I quoted a line from "New York, New York" in that Mr. Jay song and nobody called me out then or now.
Last edited by Tangmo; 05/10/19 05:05 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 723
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 723 |
I'm glad Blue Attitude has answered his post to his satisfaction. However, I feel this is a topic of interest to many others for exactly the same question. I know The Rolling Stones was sued for a song as also was Led Zeppelin and Ed Sheerhan. I believe these suits were more for riffs or melodies but I'm sure a judge somewhere could apply it to lyrics of any song that was successful. I also know the Marvin Gay Estate is pretty suit happy if they hear anything that resembles any of Marvin Gay music.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,378
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,378 |
From what I could gather, the Ed Sheeran suit was pretty lame. The plaintiffs were trying to argue that the use of a chord progression was infringement. I haven't heard what happened in that suit, but that is draconian. The suit against George Harrison had more merit, but if musical phrases and chord progressions are "copyright-able" then new music is dead.
I think if I had a commercial song with an important passage that was very closely related to another, I'd have my people contact their people and work out something. If my hook was the same lyric as another person's hook and the lyric was "unique" and not everyday speech, then a plaintiff may have a point. If I included somebody else's hook that seemed like a "quotation" then things might be more iffy. Time for people to talk to people. "Hey, my client has a song that pays homage to your client's song "Breaking Wind". We'd like to avoid future issues and are asking your opinion."
Of course, I'd have to talk to my people to see if that was the right advice. And you should talk to your people before you listen to either me or my people.
Carry on.
Last edited by Tangmo; 05/10/19 08:14 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,113
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,113 |
Now I have to know what the line was!!!! LOL! The line was "Summertime, and the living is easy" sung with a totally different melody.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,113
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,113 |
I'm glad Blue Attitude has answered his post to his satisfaction. However, I feel this is a topic of interest to many others for exactly the same question. I know The Rolling Stones was sued for a song as also was Led Zeppelin and Ed Sheerhan. I believe these suits were more for riffs or melodies but I'm sure a judge somewhere could apply it to lyrics of any song that was successful. I also know the Marvin Gay Estate is pretty suit happy if they hear anything that resembles any of Marvin Gay music. Zeppelin was successfully sued by Willie Dixon for a couple of songs, actually settled out of court. In that case it was using his lyrics. In one of the songs, "Bring it on Home", the songwriting credit actually reverted to Dixon. The other song was "Whole Lotta Love". They were also sued by the estate of Randy Wolf (Randy California) for the chord progression and arpeggios used in Stairway to Heaven, identical to a short section of the instrumental "Taurus" by the band "Spirit", however that was unsuccessful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,880
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,880 |
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,880
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,880 |
Dave,
The line probably would have been OK.
The music was written by George Gershwin who died in 1937 and the lyrics were by DuBose Heyward who died in 1940.
According to Google, the current copyright in the USA is 70 years after the death of the last composer in the case of a joint work (if I understand things correctly). Since 1940 + 70 = 2010, the work is out of copyright. This principle is most likely reflected in trade agreements between other countries.
That said, as Pat Pattison once stated at a seminar I went to too... "Never be afraid to throw out pet lines, there's always something better waiting in the wings that wants to come on stage". I always keep that in mind.
What's interesting about your situation and copyright is that you'd be governed firstly by Canadian laws and Chris's lyrics would be governed by firstly by German laws. I have no idea how that works!
I'm looking forward to hearing the song!
All the best,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,097
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,097 |
I have a friend that saw four lines of a poem written on a small rock in a gift shop with credit for authorship listed as anon. He used those four lines as lyrics in the second verse of a song. It's obvious the words are from the poem. It's a fairly long poem but the first verse is quite famous and quoted in many different formats. I've always advised to change those lines but he hasn't felt the need to do that. Is it Plagiarism or Inspiration? Here is a posting of the poem and how a funeral service instructs a family can adapt and personalize it for use in a specific funeral. "This is another very popular and flexible poem with words that are easy to adjust, lines can be added or removed, a name could be inserted to make it more personal and all religious references could also be removed if required.""If tears could build a stairway and thoughts a memory lane I'd walk right up to heaven and bring you home again" Funeral Helper But then today, I found this post by Ann Parlett: Poem Author Of course there's the story of Lennon and McCartney setting in front of a framed Victorian circus poster from 1843 that John Lennon purchased from an antique store and transformed the poster wording into song lyrics. This authorship of Lennon/McCartney is similar to me to the unknown author of the poem above. (that would be my defense anyway);) How many songs from the 50's-60's talked of the girl putting on her red dress to party? How many songs say I love you? Every country song today plagiarizes pickup trucks, beer, country girls, acoustic guitars, tractors, guns, riverbanks, country roads, cowboy hats, boots and either George Jones, Merle Haggard or Hank Williams. This topic actually tracks closely my latest non-published project that will likely go as far as my last 10 or so non-published projects but I think it could generate some interesting conversation. I may start a new thread so as to not disrupt this one.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,378
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,378 |
Now I have to know what the line was!!!! LOL! The line was "Summertime, and the living is easy" sung with a totally different melody. Ok, then. In the legal sense, that may have been "okay" to use for reasons Noel explained above. But that line is too recognizable to "copy" in a creative sense. The only real setting I personally would see that line being other than "copying" is if it were an obvious reference, or should be perceived as an obvious reference--law or no law. Context is key. I think you probably did right to change it, and I'm glad the change works better.
Last edited by Tangmo; 05/11/19 10:10 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,944
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,944 |
Perhaps I'm wrong but... I think you will only be sued if you make tons of money from a song that has a plagiarism ... The rest of us will be blocked or be asked to remove the offending song.
Jim
†=☮&♥
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,378
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,378 |
Jim is correct. You can only be sued for damages. If you caused no loss of revenue for infringing, or did not otherwise damage the value of copyrighted work, what can they "get" out of you? If you've had no revenue, they'd have a hard time proving you deprived them of revenue by infringement. Other damages can be claimed against artists and publishers (including this forum, YouTube, SoundCloud, etc.) that are just not worth the hassle. I'd want my legal team to have as little to do as possible. My greatest financial hope for my music is that some big name act steals enough of my stuff to make suing him a good career move. 
Last edited by Tangmo; 05/11/19 11:37 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,880
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,880 |
My greatest financial hope for my music is that some big name act steals enough of my stuff to make suing him a good career move. Nice plan! Hope it works out for you
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,605
Posts735,009
Members38,514
| |
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean