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#540992 - 06/14/19 01:29 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 261
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Offline
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Below is a screen shot of Tracktion with one of my songs pieced together---the 7+ minute ballad that I spent 30 hours on in one particular week a couple of months ago. The first track is the drum track. It was produced from a single .WAV file from BiaB that I replicated six times. The reason I had to do this is that the primary down beat of the drums switched at various places in the song.

The second track contains two copies of a partial drum track that my producer had created for me so that I would know where the primary down beat of the drums was occurring in the verses. Appended onto the end of the second copy of his drum track are three copies of BiaB's drum track, which I needed to bump up the volume of the first track to match the volume of my producer's drum track.

The third and fourth tracks contain two copies of BiaB exported .WAV files stitched together. The third track is the finger-picking guitar and base guitar combined from BiaB, and the fourth track is the strumming guitar from BiaB.

The fifth track is a full-length .WAV file of an earlier version of the same song that I had previously exported from Traction after I had stitched together two copies of a BiaB exported .WAV file of all the instruments in my song except for the drums.

The seventh track contains four copies of a three note transitional drum section that I exported from MuseScore to emulate and replace the transitional drum sections in my producer's partial drum track. I created these to make it easier for me to adjust the location of these transitional sections if I needed to add or remove a measure before or after the occurrence of these transitional sections.

The eighth track contains a .WAV file of the melody of my entire song that I exported from MuseScore.


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BiaB 2021 Win UltraPAK Build 833, Xtra Style PAKs 1-11, RB 2021, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Intel Q9650 3 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 500 GB SSD & 2 TB HDD, Tracktion 6 & 7 (freebies), Cakewalk, Audacity, MuseScore 2.1 & 3.4, Synthesizer V

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#541013 - 06/14/19 04:06 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Have you tried importing as a midi file as opposed to xml?
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#541015 - 06/14/19 04:33 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
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silvertones Offline
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Have you tried importing as a midi file as opposed to xml?
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#541017 - 06/14/19 04:53 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
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Jim Fogle Offline
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Muzikluver,

Mixers blend two audio clips together to create a continuous sounding audio sound by performing a cross fade (also written as crossfade). Track 1 audio is reduced while track 2 audio is increased. Band-in-a-Box and RealBand automatically cross fade when linking two audio clips together to create RealTracks. Many daws have an automatic crossfade feature that can be turned on while editing tracks together. I don't know if Traction has a crossfade feature.

+++ HERE +++ is a video by the University of Kentucky that demonstrates a cross fade.
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#541027 - 06/14/19 05:58 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: silvertones]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 261
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Offline
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Originally Posted By: silvertones
Have you tried importing as a midi file as opposed to xml?

No because a midi file wouldn't have all the chords. Also, the melody is included in the .XML file as midi and ends up as Piano2 in Track 6 of BiaB. I always turn that off and import a .WAV file of the melody from MuseScore because it sounds much better than the midi track.
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BiaB 2021 Win UltraPAK Build 833, Xtra Style PAKs 1-11, RB 2021, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Intel Q9650 3 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 500 GB SSD & 2 TB HDD, Tracktion 6 & 7 (freebies), Cakewalk, Audacity, MuseScore 2.1 & 3.4, Synthesizer V

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#541043 - 06/14/19 07:55 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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RB can interpret them.
The melody wave is probably better because the synth in the notation program. Change the synth in RB to something better than the awful wave table.
I assume your song is a complete score in the notation program.
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#541045 - 06/14/19 08:24 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6567
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
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<<< Instead of exporting multiple .WAV files from BIAB or RB and then stitching those separate files together into one full length song in a DAW, I've been exporting one .WAV file from BIAB that contains all the elements of my song after which I replicated that .WAV file two or more times in Traction and then stitched those separate .WAV files together (after cropping them properly) into one full length song that I could export as a single .WAV file. >>>

It's my suggestion you export multiple .WAV files from BIAB and stitch the audio files into your full length song in a DAW rather than attempting one .WAV file that contains all the elements of the song that you cut/paste/copy to increase the length of your song. Here's why. The elements of your song you are replicating are exact duplicates of the original audio you're replicating. What you are doing is looping the same audio. So if you copy a verse and paste that verse into another verse, it's the same audio. Whereas if you construct your song in BIAB with each verse having it's audio generated and rendered where each verse is constructed by its own .sgu file, no verses will be exactly alike. Your song will sound much better and also more human. The result will carry over into every section of your song, be it intro, chorus, verses, bridge and outro.

<<< My concern from the beginning of my use of BIAB was (and still is) that piecing together chunks of short BIAB generated song tracks into a single, long song arrangement would result in odd and/or glitchy audio seams occurring at the junctures of those chunks. >>>

This is one of the unique features of the intelligence of BIAB generated audio and should never be a problem or concern. Learning and applying proper multitrack recording techniques will virtually assure successful smooth transitions.



<<< No because a midi file wouldn't have all the chords.>>> BIAB automatically decodes and populates the Chord Chart. Since you've written the song, you will immediately detect any errors and can manually correct those you find.
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#541055 - 06/14/19 09:59 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 261
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Offline
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Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 261
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
Mixers blend two audio clips together to create a continuous sounding audio sound by performing a cross fade (also written as crossfade). Track 1 audio is reduced while track 2 audio is increased. Band-in-a-Box and RealBand automatically cross fade when linking two audio clips together to create RealTracks. Many daws have an automatic crossfade feature that can be turned on while editing tracks together. I don't know if Traction has a crossfade feature.

I'm familiar with crossfading from the gradual transitions between songs on AM and FM radio and from creating my own custom compilation cassette tapes decades ago. Yes, Tracktion does have a cross fade feature along with several other fade features. Check out the section under the red arrow in the attached image below.


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BiaB 2021 Win UltraPAK Build 833, Xtra Style PAKs 1-11, RB 2021, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Intel Q9650 3 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 500 GB SSD & 2 TB HDD, Tracktion 6 & 7 (freebies), Cakewalk, Audacity, MuseScore 2.1 & 3.4, Synthesizer V

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#541056 - 06/14/19 10:30 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: silvertones]
Registered: 04/17/18
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Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Offline
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Quote:
RB can interpret them.

Thanks for the suggestion, silvertones. I may try that with my next song, but I doubt that RB's chord interpretation will match the chords that I've come up with from my own analysis of the melody and experimentation on my guitar. Even after I've figured out all the chords to my songs (I do that last after I've written the melody and lyrics and entered them into MuseScore), my producer will always recommend a few chord changes at various locations in my songs. Sometimes, he recommends that I change a melodic section to eliminate a chord or two or to change a strong chord progression to a weak one (or vice-versa), as he did with the last song I gave him.
Quote:
The melody wave is probably better because the synth in the notation program. Change the synth in RB to something better than the awful wave table.

That's a great idea! I don't know how to do that, but I can check the manual. This would eliminate a recurring step and save me some time.
Quote:
I assume your song is a complete score in the notation program.

Yep, it sure is. That's where I put most of my effort in the beginning of the songwriting process for precise documentation of the melody and lyrics to my songs because I'm not a singer. This reduces the amount of time I have to spend prepping my songs in BiaB.
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BiaB 2021 Win UltraPAK Build 833, Xtra Style PAKs 1-11, RB 2021, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Intel Q9650 3 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 500 GB SSD & 2 TB HDD, Tracktion 6 & 7 (freebies), Cakewalk, Audacity, MuseScore 2.1 & 3.4, Synthesizer V

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#541060 - 06/14/19 11:43 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 261
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Offline
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Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 261
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Quote:
It's my suggestion you export multiple .WAV files from BIAB and stitch the audio files into your full length song in a DAW rather than attempting one .WAV file that contains all the elements of the song that you cut/paste/copy to increase the length of your song. Here's why. The elements of your song you are replicating are exact duplicates of the original audio you're replicating. What you are doing is looping the same audio. So if you copy a verse and paste that verse into another verse, it's the same audio. Whereas if you construct your song in BIAB with each verse having it's audio generated and rendered where each verse is constructed by its own .sgu file, no verses will be exactly alike. Your song will sound much better and also more human. The result will carry over into every section of your song, be it intro, chorus, verses, bridge and outro.

Thanks for your suggestion, Charlie, but this would not be beneficial for demos of my songs that I take to my producer because he'll be creating his own arrangement for those songs. So, going through the extra effort with these additional steps would be a waste of time. However, your suggestion is great for demos of my songs that I want to share with other people besides him---especially if I'm pitching a song to an artist, label, singer, etc. with the goal of having them acquire or license it for their use. I have a couple of song demos that I need to redo in BiaB using your suggestion to make them sound even better than they already do sound.

Quote:
<<< My concern from the beginning of my use of BIAB was (and still is) that piecing together chunks of short BIAB generated song tracks into a single, long song arrangement would result in odd and/or glitchy audio seams occurring at the junctures of those chunks. >>>

This is one of the unique features of the intelligence of BIAB generated audio and should never be a problem or concern. Learning and applying proper multitrack recording techniques will virtually assure successful smooth transitions.

The key phrase here is "Learning and applying proper multitrack recording techniques . . . ." This is going to take some time for me to do as I become more and more familiar with the features and capabilities of both BiaB and RB by experimentation, by watching the tutorial videos on this website and on Youtube, by reading the manual as needed, and by reading the discussions in both the BiaB forum and this one.

Quote:
<<< No because a midi file wouldn't have all the chords.>>> BIAB automatically decodes and populates the Chord Chart. Since you've written the song, you will immediately detect any errors and can manually correct those you find.

Silvertones made the same comment about RB, to which I responded as follows:

"Thanks for the suggestion. I may try that with my next song, but I doubt that RB's chord interpretation will match the chords that I've come up with from my own analysis of the melody and experimentation on my guitar. Even after I've figured out all the chords to my songs (I do that last after I've written the melody and lyrics and entered them into MuseScore), my producer will always recommend a few chord changes at various locations in my songs. Sometimes, he recommends that I change a melodic section to eliminate a chord or two or to change a strong chord progression to a weak one, as he did with the last song I gave him."
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BiaB 2021 Win UltraPAK Build 833, Xtra Style PAKs 1-11, RB 2021, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Intel Q9650 3 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 500 GB SSD & 2 TB HDD, Tracktion 6 & 7 (freebies), Cakewalk, Audacity, MuseScore 2.1 & 3.4, Synthesizer V

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#541091 - 06/15/19 05:48 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6567
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
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<<< this would not be beneficial for demos of my songs that I take to my producer because he'll be creating his own arrangement for those songs.>>>

I don't understand what you mean by your statement above. What do you provide to your producer as a demo for him to create his arrangement? A single stereo audio file? an .XML file? A Pro Tools or other DAW session containing all the individual tracks?

How does his arrangement based from your demo and suggested changes to your demo affect how you created or will edit your demo?


Edited by Charlie Fogle (06/15/19 05:53 AM)
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#541096 - 06/15/19 06:18 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 8021
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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It will. It'll interpret the midi notes in the score.If you get weird chords they will be technically correct but may not be pleasing. Those you can change.
Btw also drop the use of biab. I did 10 years ago. Learn RB it does more than biab.The xml file should work the same.
Before you import turn all bb tracks in RB to regular tracks.This should give you the whole song in midi format.Right click on a track in RB and generate any Real track. Forget about styles for RT. Just add 1 track at a time with musicians you want not those dictated by the style.
Sidebar: I'm a pro player playing 4 days a week for 8 months. Then I go into new song mode. I have over300 songs done this way.
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#541097 - 06/15/19 06:27 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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In these days if you don't submit a perfect demo to a producer he wont even listen. Even if the song than goes 180°. I also do some local producing. If the artist doesn't care about his demo why should I.
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#541098 - 06/15/19 06:32 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
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silvertones Offline
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Send me a link to an xml file and I'll send you back a song done my way.
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#541103 - 06/15/19 07:21 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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In these days if you don't submit a perfect demo to a producer he wont even listen. Even if the song than goes 180°. I also do some local producing. If the artist doesn't care about his demo why should I.
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
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#541108 - 06/15/19 08:01 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 8021
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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It takes less than 1 min. to generate a 320 bar Real Track track.
BTW even though your tracks in RB have been made to regular tracks as long as they are REAL TRACKS you can still regenerate the whole track or just sections.
You can also edit just like a word Processor. Make sure to use the "snap feature" You can cut, copy, paste etc.
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John
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#541112 - 06/15/19 08:33 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 8021
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
Starting out with all regular tracks in RB and generating a track I noticed at the very top " generating 1/2. It generated up to bar 240 than 240 to the end. Small vertical bar at 240. Changed chord at bar 240 and it followed. It was seamless.I suspect the onger the song the more steps.


Edited by silvertones (06/15/19 08:34 AM)
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John
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#541113 - 06/15/19 08:38 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 8021
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Once done there is also a feture to save all tracks as individual wav files. It even makes the folder. Then just drag and drop into Traktion. Easy peasy.
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#541114 - 06/15/19 08:39 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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BTW I use RB 2019 Build4
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John
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#541125 - 06/15/19 10:12 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 261
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Offline
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Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
<<< this would not be beneficial for demos of my songs that I take to my producer because he'll be creating his own arrangement for those songs.>>>

I don't understand what you mean by your statement above. What do you provide to your producer as a demo for him to create his arrangement? A single stereo audio file? an .XML file? A Pro Tools or other DAW session containing all the individual tracks?

How does his arrangement based from your demo and suggested changes to your demo affect how you created or will edit your demo?

As I mentioned in a previous post (either in this discussion or in the BiaB discussion of my idea to fix the 255 bar limit), the last song I gave my producer two months ago is the first song for which I created a demo using BiaB and gave that to him instead of just a lead sheet with melody, lyrics, and chords. For the first six songs he produced for me since February 2017 when I started working with him, I only gave him a lead sheet and a midi file of the melody, and he created his arrangement from those. In other words, the lead sheet and midi file have always been the focus. All the changes that I make to my songs are put into the lead sheet.

But with my most recent song that I took to my producer, I used an .XML file of my lead sheet to create a basic arrangement and demo with BiaB so that my producer didn't have to play my song on his guitar (I don't play it for him). This made it easier for him to identify any potential problem areas that needed additional work done to them because he didn't have to learn how to play the song at the same time that he was critiquing it. However, I didn't just give him a stereo .WAV file for him to listen to. Instead, after I exported BiaB's arrangement minus the melody track to a stereo .WAV file, I imported the .WAV file into ActivePresenter as an accompanying track to the melody that already existed in a video that I had used ActivePresenter to create by capturing the lead sheet one section at a time using MuseScore's "Play" function. In other words, I used the demo arrangement from BiaB to enhance the video I had made of MuseScore playing the melody of my song as it scrolled through the lead sheet. This enabled my producer to see and hear everything that was going on in my song without him having to touch his guitar or my lead sheet by watching the video I had created.

Because this last song was the first song for which I used BiaB, it took me several weeks of going back and forth with my producer for me to realize that I needed to fine tune and simplify my BiaB arrangement so that it only contained four instruments---drums, bass guitar, and two guitars (one strumming the chords, and the other finger picking those chords). Keeping my arrangement simple and clean made it easier for him to focus on the lyric/melody/chord interactions in my song as he monitored the drum track for any primary down-beat switching that occurred. And when he discovered a problem (which there were a few), he told me what I needed to do to fix it either by modifying the melody, changing a chord or two, adding or removing a chord, adding or removing a measure, or modifying the drum track itself, as I illustrated in the Tracktion screen capture I shared a few posts ago. With the exception of the drum track issue, all of the problems I fixed were accomplished by making changes to the lead sheet and then using the .XML file of a new version of that lead sheet to create a new arrangement with BiaB and a new video with ActivePresenter.

One final point I need to make. I am primarily a songwriter and a mediocre guitar player. I am not a singer, performer, arranger, or producer, and I don't know if I'll ever be any of these (although anything is possible, so I won't rule these out). So, for the songs that I take to my producer, I don't need or want a top-notch arranged and produced demo of those songs. But for my other songs that I probably won't be taking to him, I want to create a decent enough demo of those songs that I can share with family and friends and also present to others in the music industry with the goal of finding a way to get those songs professionally produced, performed, and released to the public. Currently, my main focus is on finishing the album project that I started over two years ago. At the same time, however, I want to use BiaB, RB, and any other helpful program to continue the development of other songs I've written that won't be going on this album. In the process, I'm willing and eager to learn to use these programs to their full potential in all the ways that will meet my needs. But I don't want to get bogged down in learning skills and procedures that I don't really need to learn and won't end up using on a regular basis.
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BiaB 2021 Win UltraPAK Build 833, Xtra Style PAKs 1-11, RB 2021, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Intel Q9650 3 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 500 GB SSD & 2 TB HDD, Tracktion 6 & 7 (freebies), Cakewalk, Audacity, MuseScore 2.1 & 3.4, Synthesizer V

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Enhance Your Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows Installation

Attention Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows users - update for FREE today!

We've added a new "record using" option within the Audio Settings dialog, and updated many existing features based on user feedback.

This free update also includes the most recent build of our DAW Plugin (3.9.12).

Learn more about this free update and download it today.

Ordering Your Band-in-a-Box® is Easy!

When you order any PG Music products directly from www.pgmusic.com (or www.bandinabox.com) you'll receive immediate links to start downloading your order! Even if you choose to have a backup copy of your Band-in-a-Box® packages shipped, you'll still have the download links available to you - no need to wait!

We've made it even easier to get started with Band-in-a-Box® with the Easy Payment Plan 4 - when you choose this payment option you'll pay four equal monthly payments starting on the day of your order.

Choose your Band-in-a-Box® for Windows package & order here.

Using Mac? Order here.

When you get to the checkout, simply click on Select Easy Payment Plan 4 for this product to apply this option.

Note: This only applies to this Band-in-a-Box product, and does not apply to other products that you might have in your order, including the physical backup copy if selected.

Band-in-a-Box® File Associations

You may have noticed when you were installing Band-in-a-Box® for Windows that you were asked if you would like to Associate Band-in-a-Box songs and styles with Band-in-a-Box? But, what does that mean?

It's actually pretty simple - basically, if you select this option while you're installing the program, files with the extensions .SGU, .MGU, and other Band-in-a-Box files will open directly in the program if you select them from outside the program.

Missed this option during your setup, but you'd like to apply it now? Go to File | File Utilities | Associate File types with Explorer within the program.

New Update for RealBand 2021 Available!

Do you use RealBand (included in all Band-in-a-Box® for Windows purchases)? Download the latest free update, which resolves a small viewing issue for Windows 11 users.

When you download the latest update for RealBand 2021, it will add all the updates we've made this year. See the full list here.

Ear Training Games in Band-in-a-Box® for Windows

October 1, 2021 is National Kids Music Day!

Head to the Practice Window in Band-in-a-Box® for Windows, and you'll see fun games that are fun ear training options for kids: Music Replay & Pitch Invasion.

Of course, you don't have to be a kid to like these games, I think there a fun way to learn at any age!

Music Replay is just what it sounds like - the program plays a 1-bar melody, and the user plays it back. Get it right, and you'll keep building that melody (and skill) within the game - get it wrong, and you'll be met with a warning tone and have to try again... it's quite addictive, and a lot of fun!

If you like a classic arcade game, then you'll love Pitch Invasion! We've managed to incorporate aliens with pitch-recognition skills in this exciting game, where you'll match the pitch of the alien ship descending towards your planet trying to destroy your collection of instruments - match the pitch and you've saved your instruments, make a mistake and the ship keeps coming... you'll have a few tries to get it right, if you're quick, but if all your instruments are destroyed - it's game over! The game speeds up as your skills improve, and you'll earn points along the way, with bonus points available throughout the game.

Open up your Band-in-a-Box® for Windows today to give it a try!

These ear training games are also included in Musical Arcade for Windows.

How to Make Backing Tracks with Band-in-a-Box®, by Nick Kellie

Band-in-a-Box® endorsing artist Nick Kellie recently got his hands on the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Mac, and put together this video showing off just how easy it is to make backing tracks in Band-in-a-Box®!

Band-in-a-Box Demo - How to make backing tracks

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