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#540992 - 06/14/19 01:29 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 241
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Online   content
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Below is a screen shot of Tracktion with one of my songs pieced together---the 7+ minute ballad that I spent 30 hours on in one particular week a couple of months ago. The first track is the drum track. It was produced from a single .WAV file from BiaB that I replicated six times. The reason I had to do this is that the primary down beat of the drums switched at various places in the song.

The second track contains two copies of a partial drum track that my producer had created for me so that I would know where the primary down beat of the drums was occurring in the verses. Appended onto the end of the second copy of his drum track are three copies of BiaB's drum track, which I needed to bump up the volume of the first track to match the volume of my producer's drum track.

The third and fourth tracks contain two copies of BiaB exported .WAV files stitched together. The third track is the finger-picking guitar and base guitar combined from BiaB, and the fourth track is the strumming guitar from BiaB.

The fifth track is a full-length .WAV file of an earlier version of the same song that I had previously exported from Traction after I had stitched together two copies of a BiaB exported .WAV file of all the instruments in my song except for the drums.

The seventh track contains four copies of a three note transitional drum section that I exported from MuseScore to emulate and replace the transitional drum sections in my producer's partial drum track. I created these to make it easier for me to adjust the location of these transitional sections if I needed to add or remove a measure before or after the occurrence of these transitional sections.

The eighth track contains a .WAV file of the melody of my entire song that I exported from MuseScore.


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#541013 - 06/14/19 04:06 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Have you tried importing as a midi file as opposed to xml?
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#541015 - 06/14/19 04:33 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
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silvertones Offline
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Have you tried importing as a midi file as opposed to xml?
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#541017 - 06/14/19 04:53 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
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Jim Fogle Offline
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Muzikluver,

Mixers blend two audio clips together to create a continuous sounding audio sound by performing a cross fade (also written as crossfade). Track 1 audio is reduced while track 2 audio is increased. Band-in-a-Box and RealBand automatically cross fade when linking two audio clips together to create RealTracks. Many daws have an automatic crossfade feature that can be turned on while editing tracks together. I don't know if Traction has a crossfade feature.

+++ HERE +++ is a video by the University of Kentucky that demonstrates a cross fade.
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#541027 - 06/14/19 05:58 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: silvertones]
Registered: 04/17/18
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Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Online   content
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Originally Posted By: silvertones
Have you tried importing as a midi file as opposed to xml?

No because a midi file wouldn't have all the chords. Also, the melody is included in the .XML file as midi and ends up as Piano2 in Track 6 of BiaB. I always turn that off and import a .WAV file of the melody from MuseScore because it sounds much better than the midi track.
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#541043 - 06/14/19 07:55 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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RB can interpret them.
The melody wave is probably better because the synth in the notation program. Change the synth in RB to something better than the awful wave table.
I assume your song is a complete score in the notation program.
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#541045 - 06/14/19 08:24 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6238
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
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<<< Instead of exporting multiple .WAV files from BIAB or RB and then stitching those separate files together into one full length song in a DAW, I've been exporting one .WAV file from BIAB that contains all the elements of my song after which I replicated that .WAV file two or more times in Traction and then stitched those separate .WAV files together (after cropping them properly) into one full length song that I could export as a single .WAV file. >>>

It's my suggestion you export multiple .WAV files from BIAB and stitch the audio files into your full length song in a DAW rather than attempting one .WAV file that contains all the elements of the song that you cut/paste/copy to increase the length of your song. Here's why. The elements of your song you are replicating are exact duplicates of the original audio you're replicating. What you are doing is looping the same audio. So if you copy a verse and paste that verse into another verse, it's the same audio. Whereas if you construct your song in BIAB with each verse having it's audio generated and rendered where each verse is constructed by its own .sgu file, no verses will be exactly alike. Your song will sound much better and also more human. The result will carry over into every section of your song, be it intro, chorus, verses, bridge and outro.

<<< My concern from the beginning of my use of BIAB was (and still is) that piecing together chunks of short BIAB generated song tracks into a single, long song arrangement would result in odd and/or glitchy audio seams occurring at the junctures of those chunks. >>>

This is one of the unique features of the intelligence of BIAB generated audio and should never be a problem or concern. Learning and applying proper multitrack recording techniques will virtually assure successful smooth transitions.



<<< No because a midi file wouldn't have all the chords.>>> BIAB automatically decodes and populates the Chord Chart. Since you've written the song, you will immediately detect any errors and can manually correct those you find.
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#541055 - 06/14/19 09:59 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 241
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Online   content
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Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 241
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Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
Mixers blend two audio clips together to create a continuous sounding audio sound by performing a cross fade (also written as crossfade). Track 1 audio is reduced while track 2 audio is increased. Band-in-a-Box and RealBand automatically cross fade when linking two audio clips together to create RealTracks. Many daws have an automatic crossfade feature that can be turned on while editing tracks together. I don't know if Traction has a crossfade feature.

I'm familiar with crossfading from the gradual transitions between songs on AM and FM radio and from creating my own custom compilation cassette tapes decades ago. Yes, Tracktion does have a cross fade feature along with several other fade features. Check out the section under the red arrow in the attached image below.


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#541056 - 06/14/19 10:30 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: silvertones]
Registered: 04/17/18
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muzikluver Online   content
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Quote:
RB can interpret them.

Thanks for the suggestion, silvertones. I may try that with my next song, but I doubt that RB's chord interpretation will match the chords that I've come up with from my own analysis of the melody and experimentation on my guitar. Even after I've figured out all the chords to my songs (I do that last after I've written the melody and lyrics and entered them into MuseScore), my producer will always recommend a few chord changes at various locations in my songs. Sometimes, he recommends that I change a melodic section to eliminate a chord or two or to change a strong chord progression to a weak one (or vice-versa), as he did with the last song I gave him.
Quote:
The melody wave is probably better because the synth in the notation program. Change the synth in RB to something better than the awful wave table.

That's a great idea! I don't know how to do that, but I can check the manual. This would eliminate a recurring step and save me some time.
Quote:
I assume your song is a complete score in the notation program.

Yep, it sure is. That's where I put most of my effort in the beginning of the songwriting process for precise documentation of the melody and lyrics to my songs because I'm not a singer. This reduces the amount of time I have to spend prepping my songs in BiaB.
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#541060 - 06/14/19 11:43 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 241
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Online   content
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Quote:
It's my suggestion you export multiple .WAV files from BIAB and stitch the audio files into your full length song in a DAW rather than attempting one .WAV file that contains all the elements of the song that you cut/paste/copy to increase the length of your song. Here's why. The elements of your song you are replicating are exact duplicates of the original audio you're replicating. What you are doing is looping the same audio. So if you copy a verse and paste that verse into another verse, it's the same audio. Whereas if you construct your song in BIAB with each verse having it's audio generated and rendered where each verse is constructed by its own .sgu file, no verses will be exactly alike. Your song will sound much better and also more human. The result will carry over into every section of your song, be it intro, chorus, verses, bridge and outro.

Thanks for your suggestion, Charlie, but this would not be beneficial for demos of my songs that I take to my producer because he'll be creating his own arrangement for those songs. So, going through the extra effort with these additional steps would be a waste of time. However, your suggestion is great for demos of my songs that I want to share with other people besides him---especially if I'm pitching a song to an artist, label, singer, etc. with the goal of having them acquire or license it for their use. I have a couple of song demos that I need to redo in BiaB using your suggestion to make them sound even better than they already do sound.

Quote:
<<< My concern from the beginning of my use of BIAB was (and still is) that piecing together chunks of short BIAB generated song tracks into a single, long song arrangement would result in odd and/or glitchy audio seams occurring at the junctures of those chunks. >>>

This is one of the unique features of the intelligence of BIAB generated audio and should never be a problem or concern. Learning and applying proper multitrack recording techniques will virtually assure successful smooth transitions.

The key phrase here is "Learning and applying proper multitrack recording techniques . . . ." This is going to take some time for me to do as I become more and more familiar with the features and capabilities of both BiaB and RB by experimentation, by watching the tutorial videos on this website and on Youtube, by reading the manual as needed, and by reading the discussions in both the BiaB forum and this one.

Quote:
<<< No because a midi file wouldn't have all the chords.>>> BIAB automatically decodes and populates the Chord Chart. Since you've written the song, you will immediately detect any errors and can manually correct those you find.

Silvertones made the same comment about RB, to which I responded as follows:

"Thanks for the suggestion. I may try that with my next song, but I doubt that RB's chord interpretation will match the chords that I've come up with from my own analysis of the melody and experimentation on my guitar. Even after I've figured out all the chords to my songs (I do that last after I've written the melody and lyrics and entered them into MuseScore), my producer will always recommend a few chord changes at various locations in my songs. Sometimes, he recommends that I change a melodic section to eliminate a chord or two or to change a strong chord progression to a weak one, as he did with the last song I gave him."
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#541091 - 06/15/19 05:48 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 04/07/13
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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<<< this would not be beneficial for demos of my songs that I take to my producer because he'll be creating his own arrangement for those songs.>>>

I don't understand what you mean by your statement above. What do you provide to your producer as a demo for him to create his arrangement? A single stereo audio file? an .XML file? A Pro Tools or other DAW session containing all the individual tracks?

How does his arrangement based from your demo and suggested changes to your demo affect how you created or will edit your demo?


Edited by Charlie Fogle (06/15/19 05:53 AM)
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#541096 - 06/15/19 06:18 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 8021
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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It will. It'll interpret the midi notes in the score.If you get weird chords they will be technically correct but may not be pleasing. Those you can change.
Btw also drop the use of biab. I did 10 years ago. Learn RB it does more than biab.The xml file should work the same.
Before you import turn all bb tracks in RB to regular tracks.This should give you the whole song in midi format.Right click on a track in RB and generate any Real track. Forget about styles for RT. Just add 1 track at a time with musicians you want not those dictated by the style.
Sidebar: I'm a pro player playing 4 days a week for 8 months. Then I go into new song mode. I have over300 songs done this way.
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#541097 - 06/15/19 06:27 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
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silvertones Offline
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In these days if you don't submit a perfect demo to a producer he wont even listen. Even if the song than goes 180°. I also do some local producing. If the artist doesn't care about his demo why should I.
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#541098 - 06/15/19 06:32 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
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silvertones Offline
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Send me a link to an xml file and I'll send you back a song done my way.
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#541103 - 06/15/19 07:21 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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In these days if you don't submit a perfect demo to a producer he wont even listen. Even if the song than goes 180°. I also do some local producing. If the artist doesn't care about his demo why should I.
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#541108 - 06/15/19 08:01 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
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silvertones Offline
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It takes less than 1 min. to generate a 320 bar Real Track track.
BTW even though your tracks in RB have been made to regular tracks as long as they are REAL TRACKS you can still regenerate the whole track or just sections.
You can also edit just like a word Processor. Make sure to use the "snap feature" You can cut, copy, paste etc.
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#541112 - 06/15/19 08:33 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Starting out with all regular tracks in RB and generating a track I noticed at the very top " generating 1/2. It generated up to bar 240 than 240 to the end. Small vertical bar at 240. Changed chord at bar 240 and it followed. It was seamless.I suspect the onger the song the more steps.


Edited by silvertones (06/15/19 08:34 AM)
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#541113 - 06/15/19 08:38 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Once done there is also a feture to save all tracks as individual wav files. It even makes the folder. Then just drag and drop into Traktion. Easy peasy.
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#541114 - 06/15/19 08:39 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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BTW I use RB 2019 Build4
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#541125 - 06/15/19 10:12 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 241
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Online   content
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Posts: 241
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Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
<<< this would not be beneficial for demos of my songs that I take to my producer because he'll be creating his own arrangement for those songs.>>>

I don't understand what you mean by your statement above. What do you provide to your producer as a demo for him to create his arrangement? A single stereo audio file? an .XML file? A Pro Tools or other DAW session containing all the individual tracks?

How does his arrangement based from your demo and suggested changes to your demo affect how you created or will edit your demo?

As I mentioned in a previous post (either in this discussion or in the BiaB discussion of my idea to fix the 255 bar limit), the last song I gave my producer two months ago is the first song for which I created a demo using BiaB and gave that to him instead of just a lead sheet with melody, lyrics, and chords. For the first six songs he produced for me since February 2017 when I started working with him, I only gave him a lead sheet and a midi file of the melody, and he created his arrangement from those. In other words, the lead sheet and midi file have always been the focus. All the changes that I make to my songs are put into the lead sheet.

But with my most recent song that I took to my producer, I used an .XML file of my lead sheet to create a basic arrangement and demo with BiaB so that my producer didn't have to play my song on his guitar (I don't play it for him). This made it easier for him to identify any potential problem areas that needed additional work done to them because he didn't have to learn how to play the song at the same time that he was critiquing it. However, I didn't just give him a stereo .WAV file for him to listen to. Instead, after I exported BiaB's arrangement minus the melody track to a stereo .WAV file, I imported the .WAV file into ActivePresenter as an accompanying track to the melody that already existed in a video that I had used ActivePresenter to create by capturing the lead sheet one section at a time using MuseScore's "Play" function. In other words, I used the demo arrangement from BiaB to enhance the video I had made of MuseScore playing the melody of my song as it scrolled through the lead sheet. This enabled my producer to see and hear everything that was going on in my song without him having to touch his guitar or my lead sheet by watching the video I had created.

Because this last song was the first song for which I used BiaB, it took me several weeks of going back and forth with my producer for me to realize that I needed to fine tune and simplify my BiaB arrangement so that it only contained four instruments---drums, bass guitar, and two guitars (one strumming the chords, and the other finger picking those chords). Keeping my arrangement simple and clean made it easier for him to focus on the lyric/melody/chord interactions in my song as he monitored the drum track for any primary down-beat switching that occurred. And when he discovered a problem (which there were a few), he told me what I needed to do to fix it either by modifying the melody, changing a chord or two, adding or removing a chord, adding or removing a measure, or modifying the drum track itself, as I illustrated in the Tracktion screen capture I shared a few posts ago. With the exception of the drum track issue, all of the problems I fixed were accomplished by making changes to the lead sheet and then using the .XML file of a new version of that lead sheet to create a new arrangement with BiaB and a new video with ActivePresenter.

One final point I need to make. I am primarily a songwriter and a mediocre guitar player. I am not a singer, performer, arranger, or producer, and I don't know if I'll ever be any of these (although anything is possible, so I won't rule these out). So, for the songs that I take to my producer, I don't need or want a top-notch arranged and produced demo of those songs. But for my other songs that I probably won't be taking to him, I want to create a decent enough demo of those songs that I can share with family and friends and also present to others in the music industry with the goal of finding a way to get those songs professionally produced, performed, and released to the public. Currently, my main focus is on finishing the album project that I started over two years ago. At the same time, however, I want to use BiaB, RB, and any other helpful program to continue the development of other songs I've written that won't be going on this album. In the process, I'm willing and eager to learn to use these programs to their full potential in all the ways that will meet my needs. But I don't want to get bogged down in learning skills and procedures that I don't really need to learn and won't end up using on a regular basis.
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We think you'll love the new RealStyles and MultiStyles added with Xtra Styles PAK 11, which includes new sounds like modern reggaeton, medieval-inspired folk pop, Americana power ballad, speakeasy vocal jazz, R&B and reggae fusion, and more!

Video: Xtra Styles PAK 11 Demos for Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows

XTRA STYLES PAKS ARE ON SALE UNTIL MAY 31st! During our Xtra Styles PAK 11 special, all of our Xtra Styles PAKs 1-11 are on sale for just $29 each (reg. $49)! Looking for more Xtra Styles PAKs? Until May 31st, you can purchase our complete library of all 1,800+ RealStyles with the Xtra Styles PAK 1-11 Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Learn more & order now.

Interested in a specific genre? These can be purchased for $15 each - pick & choose here.

NOTE: Xtra Styles PAKs require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition version 2020 or 2021. (Xtra Styles PAK 11 requires the 2021 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition.) Xtra Styles PAKs won't work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

Learn more & listen to demos of Xtra Styles PAK 11.

Get To Know the Band-in-a-Box® Song Settings

Want to customize your Band-in-a-Box® song? Head into the Song Settings window to adjust settings for endings, tags, style variations, pushes, rests, chord embellishments, and more!

To access Song Settings in Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows, use Ctrl+N or choose the Edit | Song Form | Settings (for This Song) option.

Looking to mix up the styles playing for each chorus? You can do that!

Want Pedal Bass in your middle chorus? You can do that too!

Hoping to fade the ending to your song? Also an option from within this window!

There are additional Ending options, RealTracks options (including half-time/double-time, 'bluesy' solos, Natural Arrangements, etc.), and more!

Learn more about Band-in-a-Box® Song Settings.

Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows Documentation Today!

Download the latest Update for Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows to access the updated PDF manual and updated help file.

We've also addressed user reported concerns regarding Plugins Options, Drum Kit window MIDI events, the 2 bar lead-in for exported MIDI files, read-only Audio tracks, and more!

The latest update is available for FREE to all Band-in-a-Box® 2021 Windows users.

Learn more and download now.

Band-in-a-Box® 2021 Portuguese for Windows is Here!

Estamos ocupados e adicionamos 80 novos recursos e uma coleção incrível de novos conteúdos, incluindo 202 RealTracks, novos RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Estudos Instrumentais, Performances de Artistas, Bonus RealDrums "Singles", transcrições de RealDrums, MultiStyles PAK 1, Xtra Styles PAK 10 e mais!

Novas Funções | Pacotes

Band-in-a-Box® 2021 Spanish for Windows is Here!

En PG Music tenemos el placer de anunciar la disponibilidad de Band-in-a-Box 2021 en Español. Despues de arduo trabajo hemos agregado, entre otras cosas, 80 funciones nuevas y una gran colección de nuevas incorporaciones y contenido que incluyen 202 RealTracks, nuevos RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Estudios Instrumentales, Interpretaciones de Artistas, RealDrums 'Single' adicionales, transcripciones de RealDrums, MultiStyles PAK 1, Xtra Styles PAK 10 ¡y mucho mas!

Nuevas características | Todos los Paquetes

New Update Available for Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows!

Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2021 today!

We've applied some updates to a variety of Add-ons, improved transcriptions and simple tags, resolved playback issues with MIDI tracks, and more. Plus, this free update adds the latest DAW Plugin 3.46!

Learn more & download now.

Band-in-a-Box® 2021 Polish for Windows is Here!

Efektem naszej ciężkiej pracy w ostatnim czasie jest m.in. dodanie 80 nowych funkcji i wspaniałej kolekcji nowych dodatków i zawartości, które obejmują 202 RealTracks, nowe RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Studia Instrumentalne, Wykonania Artystów, dodatkowe RealDrums "Pojedyncze ", transkrypcje RealDrums, pakiet MultiStyles PAK 1, Pakiet Xtra Styles PAK 10 i wiele innych!

Nowych | Pakiety

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