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#547430 - 07/30/19 09:26 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 12/20/00
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jford Online   content
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As I understand it, in BIAB, you can mix and match default a GM soft synth and VSTi synths, but you can't mix and match an external hardware synth and VST synths, because there is only one output MIDI port (unlike in Realband). Because Coolsoft Virtual MIDI synth presents itself virtually as if it were an external hardware synth (even though it uses your sound card for its output), that's how BIAB sees it and so the hardware synth rule applies.

I didn't go back and read all four pages of posts, but if you install something like VSTSynthfont (which will not present itself as a virtual hardware synth), you can run Timbres of Heaven soundfont in VSTSynthfont, and concurrently use Kontakt or some other VSTi on other tracks.
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#547441 - 07/30/19 10:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 180
NigelSpiers Offline
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Hi John,

Thanks for this tip - and I assume if I install VSTSynthfont with Timbres of Heaven soundfont I can then mix and match Real Tracks with MIDI tracks without them going out of time - is this correct?

Thanks & Best Regards
Nigel

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#547454 - 07/30/19 11:32 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 12/20/00
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jford Online   content
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Nigel, you should be able to, although as with anything, it depends on your computer and sound card settings. But I mix and match RTs and MIDI all the time without going out of sync.
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#547467 - 07/30/19 01:34 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 867
Loc: Cornwall UK
Mike Head Offline
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Posts: 867
Loc: Cornwall UK
Hi John

Thanks for coming in on this.
I had not come across this, as I don’t normally mix real and midi. But its good to be aware.
The timbres of heaven sound font in Vstsynthfont seems like a good one.

I guess the other reason I had not come across this, is in BIAB I often use the Yamaha XG lite vsti that I uploaded and its pat file to select higher banks, as my default synth.
Then off course I have no probs with mixed real content,
Thanks again for your help and interest.
Mike
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#547798 - 08/01/19 10:43 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 180
NigelSpiers Offline
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Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 180
Hi John & Mike,

OK - so I purchased Kontakt 6 this week and tried out the Factory Instruments that are bundled with it - appalling - much worse than Coyote!

So I purchased a Big Fish Audio set of Instruments called "Crossroads Blues". When I played them in Kontakt they sounded fine. However when I then go into BIAB and load an all MIDI style and then link each instrument in the Plugin window to the Big Fish Crossroads Blues instruments (making sure I set the MIDI channel correctly for each instrument i.e. 3 for Piano, 7 for Guitar etc) it plays a cacophony of pre-recorded random sounds, phrases and rhythms which have nothing at all to do with the BIAB style and are not musical at all!

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks for your assistance.

Best Regards

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#547816 - 08/02/19 05:38 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 12/10/15
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Loc: Cornwall UK
Mike Head Offline
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Hi Nigel

Not sure what your problem is but all I can say there is two ways of doing this.

Set up a Kontakt multi to insert in BIAB once and chose your channel for each instrument in the multi.


Or my preferred method,
Insert multiple separate instances of Kontakt for each BIAB track and set those individual instances Kontakt input to match the BIAB ch numbers one at a time.
Mike
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BIAB2019,UltraPlus, Asus N55S,W10/64,Akai EIEpro,
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#547817 - 08/02/19 05:45 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4885
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Notes Norton Offline
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I prefer hardware synths. There is practically no latency, they do not tax your computer CPU because everything is stored in the synth itself instead of having to 'do the math' for every note, nuance, and change in the MIDI stream, you can mix and match at will because they all have about the same latency (about 5ms) and when the OS changes, the synths still work (synths I bought when Windows 3.1 was new still work) --- but most of all IMHO they sound better.

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#547820 - 08/02/19 06:21 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 180
NigelSpiers Offline
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Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 180
Hi Guys,

Thanks for your suggestions.

I note that when I play the instruments in the "Crossroads Blues" library in Kontakt they play not single notes as I expected but phrases and the instruments are labelled Guitar - Verse 1, Verse Two, Intro, Ending etc. So when they are triggered by BIAB I think they are playing these phrases rather then the notes dictated in the BIAB style.

This non-GM MIDI and buying Instrument libraries is all new to me. So I may be entirely wrong with my above thoughts and further more I may have purchased an Instrument library not designed to be used with BIAB.

If you have purchased a Kontakt (non Native Instruments) library and it works well with BIAB Midi styles and has very high quality instrument sounds (as good or better than the BIAB Real Tracks) then I would love to hear your thoughts and suggestions.

Thanks & Best Regards
Nigel

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#547821 - 08/02/19 06:28 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 180
NigelSpiers Offline
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Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 180
Hi Bob,

Thanks for your suggestion of a hardware Synth.

I used to use an SD2 hardware Synth many years ago before Real Tracks came along and it was fine at the time.

But I have been spoiled by the Real Tracks and I now want the same or better instrument and playing quality for BIAB MIDI Styles - hence my trip down the Kontakt route.

Best Regards
Nigel

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#547827 - 08/02/19 06:39 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 12960
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Hi Nigel,

As far as I know there are no GM modules for Kontakt.

I have Kontakt and a lot of third party patches for it and most all of them are better then the Kontakt Library, which is quite old now. Let use know what sounds you are looking for and we can point you in the right direction.

PS - you might want to start a new thread with something like sounds for Kontakt as its title as some Kontakt owners might not be following this thread.
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#547842 - 08/02/19 08:20 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11684
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
jford Online   content
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11684
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The Kontakt factory library content is just okay; I hardly ever use. They are just basic sounds; not the high quality sounds that sound designers try to produce. It comes with Kontakt, so you have something to start of with, but better are other Kontakt libraries. I've got some phenomenal sounds that run in Kontakt and wouldn't trade them for the world.

The good news is that now that you have the full Kontakt, you will later be offered some pretty good sales on other libraries from Native Instruments. Session Brass, Session Strings, Session Guitarist, Symphony Series are all pretty cool. And then add libraries from Indiginus and Realitone, and other vendors. While there is a lot of free Kontakt content out there, you can also drop a lot of dollars as well, but there's some pretty cool stuff.

I've got the Komplete 12 Ultimate - Collector's Edition (which I've been upgrading each version since I bought Komplete Ultimate 8 several years ago).

Of course, they key is understanding that, as Mario said, Kontakt is not a GM module; you just use it for specific instruments. In BIAB and RealBand, you have to make sure you match the track channel to the channel you load an instrument on. Kontakt will not auto-load any instruments; you have to do it manually (as I'm sure you've found out).

Also, since it's not GM, you will also find that instrument ranges may differ from standard GM output, depending on the Kontakt instrument you select. There may also be key switches. That's why Kontakt works best when used on the Melody or Soloist track, as you have much better control over the notes played. The notes from styles are based on using a GM synth, and so your results may vary. It can be done on accompaniment tracks, but you just have to pay attention to what's being generated and marry it with an appropriate Kontakt sound library instrument.
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#547843 - 08/02/19 08:25 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 867
Loc: Cornwall UK
Mike Head Offline
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Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 867
Loc: Cornwall UK
Hi Nigel

I feel for you and your venture into buying Kontakt libraries
Many of them are mapped to the keyboard to do all sorts of things using key switching and are not therefore just single note.
I have a very good cine orchestra that plays major or minor legato or staccato chords on strings depending where you play it on the keyboard.
Obviously I cant use that to play midi notes from biab as a string instrument voice.

If I need really good midi voices better than my vsti or sound font players I use my Yamaha Clavinova CVP405 as an external synth, no latency and about 700 midi (using a pat file) voices including a full XG/ gm set.

Might be worth a thought to look out for a decent keyboard just make sure it has a full set of midi voice not just a few pianos

Here is a pic of my hook up this allows me to record from BIAB and includes ALL tracks midi & audio + mic etc. BIAB is set to send silent control chords from the chord sheet to my VH in the clavinova for vocals.

.


Attachments
35ksor5.jpg




Edited by Mike Head (08/02/19 08:28 AM)
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#547853 - 08/02/19 09:44 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19547
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Nigel, once you go down the software synth route, I can't help; others here will. But I'll just comment on your comment that you had an Edirol SD20. So did I. It really wasn't bad at all; for anyone not recognizing the name, it used the Roland sound set. The bigger brothers of this were the Edirol SD80, which I used for years, and the SD90 which Notes used. The sound set was only a little better (and the 90 handled audio; the 20 and 80 were just MIDI synths). I then made the next moves up, to the Roland Fantom and now to the Integra-7. But they are basically just improvements to that old SD-20, which was an improvement to the old 8080.

I also use a hardware MIDI synth, for the reasons Bob gave. I'm a composer and arranger, and I don't want to be bogged down by the computer. The hardware synth just works. No foolin' needed.
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#547857 - 08/02/19 10:31 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7285
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Offline
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Nigel, I just looked up your Crossroads Blues library. It says it's a blues song construction kit and it consists of "100% live played, hand-made loops". What that means is it's similar to Real Tracks. You get 1, 2 or maybe even 4 bar phrases to use. Take guitar for example. They probably have loops of many different guitarists playing blues phrases using many different guitar types and they also give you all the different guitar midi instruments. All you need to do is understand the differences between using these loops and using the individual instruments. The only mistake you made is not realizing you loaded in loops into your instrument tracks rather than the midi instrument itself.


Now if you like blues styles, try those loops in Real Band I'll bet they sound very good. Big Fish Audio has a good reputation so don't worry, that library is solid. Biab also can use loops it's just if you want to construct a song just using loops then a DAW like RB is better suited for that.

EDIT

For your purposes, I'm totally wrong. I just checked this out further because I may be interested in it myself. This is all AUDIO loops, no midi so unless you still want to keep the audio loops, this is no good for you. There are other pure midi instrument sound libraries available so see if you can exchange this for one of those.

Bob
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#547858 - 08/02/19 10:36 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/16/17
Posts: 1271
beatmaster Online   happy
Expert

Registered: 05/16/17
Posts: 1271
Sampletank

stands upin my opinion to a lot of other stuff really well , I have tried it against some hardware modules like sonic cell and ketron and its better in some areas than them.

Just putting another wee idea for you to look at .


Edited by beatmaster (08/02/19 10:37 AM)
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#547967 - 08/03/19 10:52 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 07/06/00
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Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Notes Norton Offline
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Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
<...snip...>The bigger brothers of this were the Edirol SD80, which I used for years, and the SD90 which Notes used. <...snip...>

I also use a hardware MIDI synth, for the reasons Bob gave. I'm a composer and arranger, and I don't want to be bogged down by the computer. The hardware synth just works. No foolin' needed.

I still use the SD90, it's a great synth with some fantastic sounds.

I dabbled in soft-synths a few years ago, and really couldn't find any that sounded better than the hardware synths I own. But that was a few years ago.

Good luck with your soft synth quest. Let us know what you find, perhaps I'll be able to help another.

Notes
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#547968 - 08/03/19 10:59 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 07/12/00
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Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Yes, it's probably time I did another survey to see what's out there in software MIDI synths. One disadvantage of using a hardware MIDI synth like I do is that you can't render a song in BIAB; you must record the output in real time.
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#548109 - 08/04/19 06:47 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 07/06/00
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Notes Norton Offline
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Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Yes, it's probably time I did another survey to see what's out there in software MIDI synths. One disadvantage of using a hardware MIDI synth like I do is that you can't render a song in BIAB; you must record the output in real time.


That's no problem for me.

The advantage after saving to MIDI is that I can stack a half dozen sound modules, all with the same latency (5-6ms), choose the best sounds from each (the bass from one module, the snare from another, the guitar yet another etc.), feed them through a mixer where I can adjust individual volumes and tones, and record them into Power Tracks Pro or another DAW, add a little BBE Sonic Maximizer plug in, and save as an audio file that sounds much, much better than what BiaB may have rendered.

It's a little extra play (some call it work) time, but the end results can be so much better. And playing around with the sound is fun anyway.

Insights and incites by Notes
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100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
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#548114 - 08/04/19 08:24 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: Notes Norton]
Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
2bSolo Offline
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I don't have any tips as sophisticated as some of the forum members. But I have been working on a blues/soul project for the last year, and I have learned a couple of cheap and easy things you can use.

The Sampletank piano is pretty good when it's mixed. You can record it, copy it to another track, pan the tracks slightly and make one a little later than the other (offset-just a few milliseconds).

If you download Cakewalk, you can use the TTS piano and do the same thing.

I use Westwood Drums and MT Power Drums, depending upon the song. They sound great IMO.

If you learn how to do some Notation Editing and Piano Roll Editing in BIAB, you might like the results. You can get rid of notes that don't work and put in some you like. In Piano Roll, you can change the velocity (already mentioned) and create crescendos/decrescendos (swells and fades). That helps to get a more natural sound. If you decide to try editing, there are a few things to be careful about. If you PM me, I will share those with you.

Hope something here helps. Good luck on your journey.

2b
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#548116 - 08/04/19 09:27 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/13/03
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silvertones Offline
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Midi came out in 1983.A whole lot of water under the bridge. A lot to learn before purchasing a program like BIAB.If I were you I'd set BIAB aside and do all the learning about midi you can get your hands on. Even some experienced people are using VST and VSTi, and DX and DXi interchangeably. Even PG calls their plugin a VST. Which is wrong sort of.
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-After you’ve added the bar lines, IF you adjust the first or second bar and the tempo of the first bar changes accordingly, the program automatically changes the tempo of the song to match.
-Multi-window display. This gives the Audio Chord Wizard a multi-window view so that you can see and edit both the Audio Edit window and the Chords Sheet at the same time. This display is best viewed with a small toolbar mode. This allows you to see the chords as they are being interpreted by the wizard.
-The Audio Chord Wizard can send the transcribed MIDI notes to the Soloist track for further analysis by the user (via Piano Roll or Notation window). Note that this is a "snapshot" view every 8th note of the pitches present, not an attempt at polyphonic transcription. To use this feature, enable the "MIDI to Soloist" check box.

Read more about these enhancements here, or jump to the New Feature - Audio Chord Wizard (ACW) Enhancements section of our New Features video here.

The Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows® Special ENDS January 15th!!!

IT'S YOUR LAST WEEKEND TO SAVE UP TO 50% ON YOUR BAND-IN-A-BOX® UPGRADE!

Our SALE on Band-in-a-Box® 2020 Upgrade purchases ends January 15, 2020, so there is still some time to save up to 50% when you purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows Upgrade!

Customers LOVE Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows with over 50 new features, plus the 202 New RealTracks, new RealStyles, 15 new MIDI SuperTracks, 170 new Instrumental Studies, 30 new MIDI Styles, 280 RealDrums Transcriptions, the 2020 Free Bonus PAK, 2020 49-PAK, and new Xtra Styles PAK 8!

We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some amazing Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Windows 2020 packages, but for more even more Add-ons (including 40 Unreleased RealTracks) upgrade it to the 2020 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.

Check out our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.

Learn more about all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows at: www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.new.htm

If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows Patch Update Available! (Build 643)

Still using Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows? Build 643 is a free update full of updates for version 2019, and includes a VST DAW Plugin update to 1.16.29.

Learn more and download here. | Direct download

Note: this patch is not intended to update your version to the recently released Band-in-a-Box® 2020, which is available for purchase here.

Summary of Changes for Version 2019 Build 643 (Jan 14 2020):
Fixed: Practice window | Master Solos | Blues Piano, displays N/A.
Fixed: The Drop Station would not update if dropping a file onto Presonus Studio One.
Fixed: Possible freeze when importing compressed audio files.
Fixed: Crash with error "external exception C06D007F" while launching if using Windows XP.
Fixed: Access violation in Song Titles browser if no song is selected when clicking [Close].
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box might crash during bootup if there is a problem with font installation (usually after upgrading Windows 7 to Windows 10).
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box might crash during bootup if an ASIO driver was previously selected, and the device is no longer connected to the computer.
Fixed: If an ASIO driver cannot connect during bootup, the default WAS driver should be used instead.
Improved: BootupLog.txt will include more elaborate information when troubleshooting bootup problems. This only applies if WriteBootUpLog.txt is present in the Data folder.
Fixed: RealTracks #2975 (Vocal Oohs-Aahs) sometimes played incorrect chords for m7b5 and C7.
Fixed: Some bars for the B section of RT 2529 were dropping out.
Fixed: Some Bass and Nylon Guitar RealTracks (including 2718, 2724, 2722, 2725, 2719) have RealCharts added.
Fixed: Several Piano and Organ MIDI SuperTracks have been edited to remove spurious MIDI events (e.g. mod wheel sometimes caused 'warbling' effect).
Updated: PDF and help (routine cleanup/updaes).
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box might crash when opening a song that contains note-based lyrics.
Fixed: Lyrics would not display in the Big Lyrics if "Show chord symbols above the lyrics" was enabled.
Fixed: Bar Lyrics and Section Text layers do not line up with bars in Notation window if there are repeats in song, and fake sheet mode is enabled.
Fixed: Possible crash if editing a text layer while using the floating Notation Window.
Fixed: "There is no audio file currently recorded" error message when using Audio > Plugin.
Fixed: If using the 64 bit version of Band-in-a-Box, the BB2Go window would display an erroneous QuickTime version, and converting files to .m4a would fail. QuickTime is only available for the 32 bit version, but is only required if using Windows Vista or earlier.
Fixed: Sforzando might not automatically be added to the VST list, causing Hi-Q patch selection to fail.
Fixed: [Video] > Render Video(s)... menu item should launch the Make Chordsheet Video dialog if Video RealTracks export is not available.
Fixed: When choosing a compressed format for rendering files, and "One file per track" is enabled, the resulting files are .wav format instead of the compressed format.
Fixed: Dragging a single track to export MIDI causes that track to be permanently soloed.
Fixed: The About dialog said 'for Macintosh' instead of 'for Windows'.
Fixed: StylePicker: User Category list wasn't refreshing after choosing a new user category.
Changed: Default the 'include similar styles in the stylepicker' to false each bootup.
Fixed: melodists were getting quantized incorrectly.
Fixed: Rebuilding styles list was causing errors sometimes.
Fixed: Clicking OK in the MIDI/Audio Driver Setup dialog should not close the floating Mixer window.
Fixed: Applying audio effects using Audio > Plugins would fail with error "Plugin cancelled. Original file is preserved".
Fixed: Audio will not import to a custom position if there is already audio on the Audio track.
Fixed: Audio > Edit Audio > Timeshift Audio would crash the program if the Audio Edit window was not open.
Fixed: Close button in Select chorus start/end dialog should behave like Cancel, ie user clicking on bar afterwards shouldn't do anything.
Fixed: Wrong notes on Oohs and Aahs RealTracks.

Summary of changes for Band-in-a-Box DAW Plugin 1.16.29:
Fixed: bounds when highlighting in chord sheet
Fixed: make selected cell at the end after pasting
Fixed: some styles not dragging all tracks from blue button
Fixed: losing focus in chord sheet
Fixed: plugin stops playing non-synced tracks when closing and then opening plugin
Fixed: track text not resizing correctly
Fixed: C#7b5b9b13 to chord sheet
Fixed: Audio stutters when resizing plugin in some DAWs
Fixed: auto gen after open feature not working in Studio One 4
Fixed: Open dialog in infinite loop
Fixed: Alert window buttons "punch hole" when pressed
Fixed: distortion when stopping playback in pro tools
Fixed: Verify folders before each call to Biab
Fixed: Send space bar keystrokes to DAW
Fixed: Added message if attempting to drag tracks before generating
Fixed: Transpose not working
Added: shift-arrows to select in chord sheet
Added: SHIFT-TAB to go backwards in chord sheet, TAB to go forward
Added: SHIFT-ENTER to go backwards in chord sheet
Added: copy selected cell if nothing highlighted
Added: support for all Biab file types

New Left-Handed & Student View Guitar Window in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows!

With Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows, the Guitar window has been remade and now supports the left-handed (in addition to right-handed) guitar and student view!

The student view is the view a student (or YouTube video watcher) would have of the (right-handed) guitar facing him with the head at the right and low notes at the top. There's also a left-handed student view, so all 4 possible views are supported.

To change the view, press the [Guitar] toolbar button to open the Guitar window and then the [Settings] button.

See this new feature in action when you jump to the "Left-Handed & Student View Guitar Fretboard" topic in our 2020 New Features video: Click here...

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