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#543737 - 07/02/19 06:30 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] 255 bar limit
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silvertones Offline
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Refresh my memory. I think a lot of folks "unfold the chord sheet to 1 large song for ease.
Let's say I have a song bar 1-4 is an intro. The next 12 bars are a verse. Then there's another identical verse. If I don't unfold the chord sheet and use a repeat for verse 2 will that count as 12 measures or 24.
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#543758 - 07/02/19 08:28 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 255 bar limit [Re: silvertones]
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Jim Fogle Offline
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Neither 12 or 24. The song will have 30 or 32 bars. 4 (intro) + 12 (verse 1) + 12 (verse 2) equals 28 bars. Then there is the 2 or 4 bar ending. Then there are the bars that are doubled when half, double or triple time is used.

In my analogy the program has to "unfold" the chorus to keep track of the possible preference options (middle chorus variations). But the program could just as easily have multiple counters to keep track of both bars and repeats.

I believe repeats are available more to accommodate display of the chord sheet and song file printouts than how the program keeps track of the song timeline.

Of course, all of this is conjecture as I have no way of knowing.
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#543774 - 07/02/19 09:38 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 255 bar limit [Re: silvertones]
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I don't know, either. But should we also include the two-bar count-in in this computation?
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#543804 - 07/02/19 01:15 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 255 bar limit [Re: silvertones]
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silvertones Offline
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I'll do a test and see. Jim I don't mean the repeat at the top.l mean if the chords are entered just like sheet music with repeats, coda, return to coda etc.I think 12 bars with a repeat at bar 16 to start at bar 5 would only "count" for viab purposes as 12 bars.Just a guess.
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#543809 - 07/02/19 02:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 255 bar limit [Re: silvertones]
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silvertones Offline
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Right click on chord call and choose repeats,do el coda etc.So I believe you can have a song that is actually more then 255 bars but you only have 255 bars to enter chords. If you look at sheet music the song is always longer then the number of written bars.
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#543810 - 07/02/19 02:10 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 255 bar limit [Re: silvertones]
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silvertones Offline
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Yep song can be longer then 255 by using the et click chord cell and using normal chord entry with repeats, coda etc.
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#543811 - 07/02/19 02:14 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 255 bar limit [Re: silvertones]
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silvertones Offline
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I set, at the top
1.255 bars
2. 1 chorus
3. No repeats
Entered some chords
4. Entered a repeat at 200 to start at 5. It did.
5. It then played to the end.
455 bars long. The song not the chord sheet
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#543813 - 07/02/19 02:16 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 255 bar limit [Re: silvertones]
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silvertones Offline
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If musikluver had entered the notation in his xml file standard I believe it would have worked.
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#543826 - 07/02/19 03:26 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 255 bar limit [Re: silvertones]
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muzikluver Offline
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Originally Posted By: silvertones
If musikluver had entered the notation in his xml file standard I believe it would have worked.

Unfortunately, Silvertones, if you're suggesting that I could have used repeats for the verses and choruses in my song so that the chord sheet wouldn't have exceeded 255 bars in BiaB or crossed the 240/241 bar boundary in RB (and thus avoid the erroneous chord change that occurred in bar 241), I have to inform you that your suggestion won't work for this song due to the differences that exist in each verse and each chorus. For example, the first line of the first verse lasts for four measures, but the first line of the second verse lasts for only three measures. There are also some places in each verse where the melody is slightly different because of the lyrics. The same is true of the choruses. The melody in the second chorus is slightly different from the melody in the first and third chorus. The only thing that could be repeated is the musical interlude that occurs between the first chorus and the second verse and between the second chorus and the third verse. But even doing this wouldn't have been enough to not exceed 255 bars in BiaB or avoid the 240/241 bar boundary in RB because these interludes aren't very long. Plus, attempting this would be very tricky.

However, your suggestion might have been possible with my other long song that I gave to my producer a couple of months ago, but I'd have to take a close look at it to be sure.
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#543840 - 07/02/19 04:29 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 255 bar limit [Re: silvertones]
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silvertones Offline
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I agree RB is still screwed.Just wanted to let you know what I found with BIAB. Yes if all your verses/choruses etc are completely unique then you are correct. It wouldn't work.
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#543863 - 07/02/19 06:08 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 255 bar limit [Re: silvertones]
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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<<< I agree RB is still screwed. Just wanted to let you know what I found with BIAB. Yes if all your verses/choruses etc are completely unique then you are correct. It wouldn't work. >>>


Unless you're working with recorded audio rather than generated audio. There is no bar limitation nor will there be any erroneous chord change with recorded audio even if it was originally generated in BIAB. RB functions as any other DAW when you use audio/midi and not BIAB generations that involve those two limitations when attempting a single render. In a single render attempt in RB, it's still screwed up.
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#543867 - 07/02/19 07:21 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 255 bar limit [Re: silvertones]
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silvertones Offline
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Charlie you're missing the point.
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#543868 - 07/02/19 07:46 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 255 bar limit [Re: silvertones]
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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That's probably true. What's the point?
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#543870 - 07/02/19 07:55 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 255 bar limit [Re: silvertones]
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silvertones Offline
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If you enter chords for 12 bars then use the repeat/coda feature and tell it to repeat from bar 5 to bar 10 a 100 times then generate it'll play 1000 bars.It only generates bar 5 thru 10 but plays it over and over for 1000 bars.
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#543874 - 07/02/19 09:03 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 255 bar limit [Re: silvertones]
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This is where it all gets confusing; it depends on when you stop relying on BiaB features/apps
Once you ask RB to behave like BiaB .. it does!
Once you tell it explicitly not to, it doesn't, at least in my experience.
Depends on what features you use and how.

Like I said right off, it can be confusing, but FTR I think Charlie was referring to RB and not BB in his post
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#543898 - 07/03/19 06:32 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 255 bar limit [Re: silvertones]
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silvertones Offline
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The original post by musikluver yes was about RB but then the issues with RB brought biab 255 bar limit into the picture. I was clarifying that biab only sort of has a 255 bar limit.
Some do a song in biab as I said then import the sgu/mug into RB and see what happens.
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#544039 - 07/04/19 06:53 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 255 bar limit [Re: silvertones]
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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Originally Posted By: silvertones
If musikluver had entered the notation in his xml file standard I believe it would have worked.


This is correct if an XML file is capable to do repeats/codas, etc and BIAB reads the XML file correctly. Entering chords manually works as expected.

I manually entered chords and created a 32 bar BIAB template song and set it to repeat between 5-32 10 times to create a song structure to use. It has a 4 bar INTRO, VERSE1=8 bars, CHORUS=8 bars,VERSE2=12 and a 2 bar ending so when it plays, it exceeded the 255 bar limit of BIAB just as Silvertones indicated.

I saved the file and opened the SGU file in RealBand. I had used a midi style with RealDrums in my BIAB song, so I added three RealTracks to the RB song and saved the song in RB format, SEQ. The three RealTracks and RealDrum track generated all the measures without error and specifically, no erroneous chord at bar 240-241. The 255 bar limit was no issue whatsoever.

Regarding Muziluver's comments:

"I have to inform you that your suggestion won't work for this song due to the differences that exist in each verse and each chorus."

This is incorrect. I was able to edit the RB song without any issues.

"For example, the first line of the first verse lasts for four measures, but the first line of the second verse lasts for only three measures. There are also some places in each verse where the melody is slightly different because of the lyrics. The same is true of the choruses."

I was able to delete a measure from the first line of my second verse and the RealBand program deleted the measure and seamlessly crossfaded the preceding and following bars. I also edited the chord chart for verses and chorus's and regenerated those specific sections without issue and without having to regenerate the entire song.

"There are also some places in each verse where the melody is slightly different because of the lyrics."

This should be no problem. If the melody line is midi, that's quick and easy to edit. If it's audio, that section would have to be overdubbed (punched in/out) but again, only that particular section would require editing, not the whole melody track or all the lyrics.


"attempting this would be very tricky."

Not at all. Very easy and straightforward DAW editing of copy/paste and edit/regenerate Chord changes.

Whether the song originates in BIAB or RB, the key for this to work is to structure the song and break it into sections using Part Markers. In RealBand, the Part Markers can be named to match the song structure and each individual section can be highlighted\selected to edit the chord chart, tempo, key signature, number of measures and regenerated by each individual section quickly and easily. For instance, select the last measure of VERSE 2 and Edit\Delete Bars from Song and designate the number of Bars to Delete. Insert Bars works the same way. RealBand will automatically crossfade the preceding and following bars seamlessly. If you edit any chords in a section, Highlight the section and regenerate that section.



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Edited by Charlie Fogle (07/04/19 09:59 AM)
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#544070 - 07/04/19 10:22 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 255 bar limit [Re: silvertones]
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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Just an FYI. I encountered editing,rendering and multi riff RealTrack issues using Silvertone's step by step instructions that included having repeats to be only one chorus. While the regenerations did not affect the midi tracks, the whole process was cancelled so no changes were made to the midi tracks either.

But, when I changed the Chorus repeats, I did not have any problems at all editing, rendering or multi riffing RealTracks or the midi tracks anywhere along the length of the song.

so as long as Muzikluver or anyone else can keep track of where they are in their song and use part markers to mark and navigate between intro, verses, bridges, Chorus's and outro's, they should be able to accomplish creating, structuring, editing and rendering their project in RB.
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#544084 - 07/04/19 12:25 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 255 bar limit [Re: silvertones]
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silvertones Offline
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Thank you Charlie for doing this.You added validity to my being. grin
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#544088 - 07/04/19 01:14 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 255 bar limit [Re: silvertones]
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silvertones Offline
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I think I can say this.
I just tested RB build 4 release 4 and all works as it should. Hopefully nothing new pops its head up.
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