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#544500 07/07/19 09:49 AM
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mrgeeze Offline OP
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Made progress on the quality and consistency of my backing tracks as a result of the great help on this forum.

My workflow:BIAB to Logic Pro X with a Limtiter and LUFS meter
Getting pretty consistent tracks. I've even used some automation and de-essing to address some problems. I'm no George Martin but the stuff is getting better.

For live performance
I purchased an Electro Voice Evolve 50 Line Array PA.
I use a Tech21 FlyRig for my guitar processor
I play a Telecaster or PRS Custom 24 through the flyrig direct to the EV.
I use an Ipad with Anytune Pro for setlists and playback also through the EV.
I use a Blueboard bluetooth Midi Controller (with a volume pedal) to control song start/stop, next/previous , etc on Anytune.

The EV PA really makes a great difference in the quality of the backing tracks. The 12" woofer moves enough air to handle the bass and kick drum well and keep good separation between the instruments. The mud is gone.
The line array technology really disperses the sound nicely, not overwhelming volume.

The EV base is about 40 lbs, a little heavier than I wanted but not too bad.
I can pack in my entire setup in 2 trips to the car.
I can setup easily in 10 minutes.

I'm getting good feedback from the crowd and a few more gigs are coming my way.

Now I am thinking about the next step.

Perhaps I should record some of my guitar tracks along with the backing tracks and create a CD?

I've been asked a few times at gigs if I had CD's available for sale

I've got the gear to record my guitar with the backing track arrangements I have. Admittedly Its not a "real" band backing me but it will probably have to do for the time.

Wondering whether I should go down this road?

I don't feel CD's are dead, actually there seems to be some interest from my ever growing fan base. At least my 90 year old mother seems to want one, though I'm not sure she has a CD player.

What tools and/services do folks use for creating and duplicating CD's.
What about creating the jackets. Prefer cardboard to jewel cases

For cover artwork will probably just use jpegs and some simple text for credits.

Anyway, just wondering what experiences the folks on this forum have experienced.

Thanks,


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It never hurts to be able to fulfill a customer request. It should be pretty easy to have one or more CDs available upon request.

If you have a computer with a CD burner it's easy enough to make audio CDs suitable for distribution. Windows includes burning software with the Windows Media Player application.

Blank CD-R media is relatively inexpensive. You'll find media rated for 650 MB of data and 74 minutes of audio or 700 MB of of data and 80 minutes of audio. While both will playback in most audio players, get the 650 MB / 74 minutes if given the choice. The original CD standard was for 650 MB of data and 74 minutes of audio playback so the lower rated CD-R will playback in even the oldest of audio CD players. +++ HERE +++ is an example of what is available on Amazon.

You can use an ink jet or laser printer, and blank labels with label design software to make labels. You'll also need a label stamper to accurately apply the label to the CD. The same label design software can be used to design sleeves but then you would need to adjust the printer to physically handle the sleeves.

There are several online sites where you can design and print CDs in small batches.

Many wedding photographers offer CDs as part of their wedding package. You may want to ask for advice about supply costs, sources and design.


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Be careful and/or mindful of copywriter issues when selling CDs.


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kunaki.com

Press on demand, can handle sales through the website, fully automated.

I've used them for runs between 5 and 25 copies. Quality is quite high, from my experience. You'll need one fully burned CD, your own artwork, and the ability to use their software to upload all of it in a package.


BIAB 2021 Audiophile. Windows 10 64bit. Songwriter, lyricist, composer(?) loving all styles. Some pre-BIAB music from Farfetched Tangmo Band's first CD. https://alonetone.com/tangmo/playlists/close-to-the-ground
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mrgeeze Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Teunis
Be careful and/or mindful of copywriter issues when selling CDs.


I spent a little time reviewing this subject.
I was left more confused than ever. At present I think I need fill out forms every month/quarter and remit a whole bunch of people a never ending stream of very small amounts of money.

I don't wish to run afoul of these laws.
I would like the songwriters to get their due.

Is there a practical way for a very semi-pro person to keep the copyright people happy without employing a CPA firm?


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Originally Posted By: mrgeeze


Is there a practical way for a very semi-pro person to keep the copyright people happy without employing a CPA firm?


At least two ways come to mind.

1) write your own songs.
2) contact Harry Fox for a mechanical license if you are doing covers. It's a one-time fee based on the number of CDs you print.


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mrgeeze Offline OP
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Thank you Matt
Harry Fox should handle the covers.

Truth is, I know nothing about what is involved in protecting my original compositions.
I have quite a few of them now.


Can you suggest a good approach for my own tunes?

Again,
thanks,


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Originally Posted By: mrgeeze
Thank you Matt
Harry Fox should handle the covers.

Truth is, I know nothing about what is involved in protecting my original compositions.
I have quite a few of them now.


Can you suggest a good approach for my own tunes?

Again,
thanks,


Every country can have different copyright laws. In the USA you can copyright music by either sheet music, on line or audio discs, MP3 or Wav: I have copyrighted some of mine via uploaded MP3s. Note that the rules are consistently changing so be sure to check the copyright website to insure you are doing it correctly.


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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I agree with the abovet. Purchase licenses for covers via Harry Fox and burn a few CDs with minimalist art work but include references to licenses per each song. If somebody wants to buy a CD at a gig the absence of world class artwork isn’t going to make any difference. If sales justify it then move on to, I suggest, CDBaby for more CDs and possibly distribution on the streaming platforms.

Bud

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mrgeeze Offline OP
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Thanks for all who have contributed so far.

I spent a little time on HarryFox without great success.
My hit rate was at best 50% for the cover material I would like to use on my first CD.

Either the song was not there (multiple search attempts) or they did not handle the particular song/artist

Also,the search time took the better part of a minute for each tune.
Seems like perhaps they need to upgrade the PC/XT they are running their database on.

All in all my user experience was less than optimal.

Honestly, the stuff I'm after is not that far out (Bill Frisell, Coltrane, Santana, Zappa, etc)

I spent some time on the CDBaby website and found a site called easysonglicensing.com
They seem to offer a similar service

Anybody use them?
Any other suggestions.

Ballpark figure a run of 100 cd's with 10-15 covers will cost me somewhere between $100-200 for the licensing.
Probably a 2-3 bucks to make the CD's with cover & art.

Say $5 per cd all in cost. Sound about right?

I'm guessing $10 a cd at the gig is a pretty fair price?
Looks like only need to sell a couple hundred thousand of them to make some decent dough.


Last edited by mrgeeze; 07/09/19 10:50 AM.

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Quote:
Say $5 per cd all in cost. Sound about right?

Depends .. the artwork is a one time cost and .. the more CDs you make the the less each costs.

We didn't have licensing costs (all original songs) but the copyright costs probably balanced that out (or worked to your advantage actually)

We usually went with a 500+ CD order, so the cost of each was less.
Then when we ordered again the cost dropped again. We were lucky and usually sold a couple thousand at least.

The key is to be able to sell them at the gig.
We usually sold them at more than $10 and our average cost was less than $5.

A signed CD for $15 seemed to work well .. you had to actually spend the time signing them when people bought them, but that 'personalized' aspect seemed to be the most successful option monetarily for us at shows.
Sure, some of the unsigned CDs (for less) sold, but the consumer knowing they got a couple minutes with each band member (to sign it) was a more successful marketing angle for us.

Also, once you invest in the artwork it's yours; it's pretty cheap to make T-Shirts and sell them at the same table. <grin>
T-Shirts didn't usually add much profit to the gig (though they did add to it), but they were a novelty that some bought (and also were good for mid-show raffles and such) .. plus every time it got wore it was free advertising.

/marketing!
//Having someone that looks good in the T-Shirt working the table also helps smile

Last edited by rharv; 07/09/19 02:20 PM.

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Don't use samples (bits of recording) from commercial recorded music ever period. These are covered by the portions of copyright law related to Mechanical" royalties. The record company owns these rights. They are under no obligation to let you use the material without express permission.

If you do a "cover" and can't find it listed with Harry Fox, contact the publisher of record and/or the PRO of record. Last I knew, they can't deny you the right to cover the song commercially as long as royalties are paid. Your contact should be for purposes of determining how/where royalties are to be paid. Don't be surprised if they simply blow you off as not worth their time to respond. Keep record of your contact. Or just don't use the song.

You can claim your copyrights for any song you wrote simply by putting it to physical media. If you are concerned about infringement against you, burn the song (or album) to CD, put it in an envelope with lyric and chord sheets, mail it to yourself, and put it unopened in a lockbox. If you want to go the full route with the Copyright Office, you can pay the same fee for an album's worth of music as for a single song.

Don't let any of this bother you too much. Lawyers are not going to work for the principle of the thing. If little or no money is involved, don't sweat the small stuff. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be concerned with the principle of the thing. Don't sell your cover of a song without "permission" even though "permission" can't be refused. Sleep well.

If you are serious as a song-writer it may be good to set up your own publishing company. There are publishers who do little or nothing besides handle the paperwork side of the business for either a fee or a smaller cut. Don't expect them to shop your songs to other artists or do much of anything else with it, but it's an avenue worth exploring if you don't have time/expertise to fully self-publish.

Don't over-estimate your worth. Don't underestimate your worth. Don't measure your worth completely in money in either case.

If 500 copies seems an awful lot selling a few at gigs, consider kunaki.com. I don't think you'll be paying $5 a CD (if artwork is not an upfront expense) unless you are ordering just a few at a time and shipping averages too much. But it may help you keep costs down by not paying for a lot of unsold CD's and ordering a more manageable amount at a time--25, 50, 100?. Up to you.

I have put out 5 CD's overflowing--14 songs minimum. One went to CDBaby and is now splattered all over the internet. Other than physical CD's, I've earned almost 0 from streaming through CDBaby. I've sold copies through kunaki.com to friends/contacts online. I've sold a few to curious shoppers in friend's stores. I've given away quite a few, though some people look at me like a kid getting socks for Christmas.

Have fun.






Last edited by Tangmo; 07/09/19 05:30 PM.

BIAB 2021 Audiophile. Windows 10 64bit. Songwriter, lyricist, composer(?) loving all styles. Some pre-BIAB music from Farfetched Tangmo Band's first CD. https://alonetone.com/tangmo/playlists/close-to-the-ground
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Originally Posted By: Tangmo
................

You can claim your copyrights for any song you wrote simply by putting it to physical media. If you are concerned about infringement against you, burn the song (or album) to CD, put it in an envelope with lyric and chord sheets, mail it to yourself, and put it unopened in a lockbox.


This will not work in the USA. Whomever has the copyright owns the song. Thus if you mail yourself a song as above, put the song on the Internet and I like it I can copyright right it. Then I own the song.

Originally Posted By: Tangmo

If you want to go the full route with the Copyright Office, you can pay the same fee for an album's worth of music as for a single song.
........................


This is the only way to own a song in the USA.


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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Dunno Mario, this is from US government site indicating it’s not necessary to copyright unless you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement. I’ve never taken the time to copyright and plan to take my chances smile as I don’t expect folks queued up to steal my works!

When is my work protected?
Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration.”

Why should I register my work if copyright protection is automatic?
Registration is recommended for a number of reasons. Many choose to register their works because they wish to have the facts of their copyright on the public record and have a certificate of registration. Registered works may be eligible for statutory damages and attorney's fees in successful litigation. Finally, if registration occurs within five years of publication, it is considered prima facie evidence in a court of law. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration” and Circular 38b, Highlights of Copyright Amendments Contained in the Uruguay Round Agreements Act (URAA), on non-U.S. works.


https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#what

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Mario, if I wrote the song and put it on physical media (down to words and chords on the back of an envelope) I own the song. This is not hippy-speak. This is the law and the intent of the law. In your scenario, if you were to discover that song and register a copyright, you haven't been granted ownership of that song. You've (probably) committed fraud. There is nothing stopping a person from registering a copyright EVEN IF the song is already registered by someone else. There is no person or persons in the copyright office who is making a determination whether or not the work you are registering is original.

This differs from the Patent Office where there ARE people who make the determination whether or not your invention is suitably original enough to warrant a patent and the extent of what is patent-able in your invention. The first to file a successful patent application owns the patent. There is no such corollary in copyright. All the copyright office does is register a claim. It is up to the individuals to prove a claim in the event of disagreement.

Everything I have read from music industry insiders for 20 years has said the same essential thing. Don't fret. Take sensible precautions befitting your position in the industry. And understand that the best way to "protect" yourself is to "publish". If you "published" first, it's yours...even if that only involves getting it out of your head and onto something physical. To "steal" otherwise requires someone to read your mind.


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Janice, Bud and, Tangmo, you may be right. I am on a number of patents and music copyrights and have been in involved in both processes. I think I have mixed them up in my message. Sorry about that. CRS!


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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If you decide to sell CD's at gigs, also set up a web site and have them available there 24/7-365 so your cd can be purchased on line. There will surely be instances when someone may hear your music but not be in a position at that moment to purchase. I've had instances where I've been approached about my original music playing somewhat loudly while I was at a gas station filling up. I was sitting in my car at Walmart at the beach once while my wife was shopping playing a CD I'd burned of a Floyd Jane collection of originals somewhat loudly and with my windows down. A car with two gentlemen were who were also waiting for their spouses just across from me. Their wives returned to the and over hearing their conversation, the wives were ready to go but one of the gentleman said he wanted to delay leaving so he could listen through to the end of Floyd's song playing. A bit of quick marketing would likely have resulted in a sale there as well. I'd suggest investing in business cards with your web site and you may get many, but I'm sure you could steer customers to your site.

Learn the micro niche technique. It's been discussed here on the forum in the past with mixed results of its viability but the math is solid. The idea is to sell a passive product such as a CD, on line course, Tutorial, etc that you create once but can sell the resultant product time and again. For instance, you make a 10 song CD once but you can continue to print copies and sell them forever but your goal is to make 1,000 sales in a period of a year. In Rharv's example of a signed CD for $15, 1,000 sales is $15,000 per year. That's more than you'd earn working at McDonald's or a shoe store...

It's also more easily achieved than you may imagine when you have your CD available 24/7 on a website on the internet. The trick and/or work is developing methods to steer customers to your site or to your gigs...


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Not sure who is making new copies, but I just found copies of our old CD on Amazon, and we haven't printed any in 5 years or so.
I also notice it's now on Spotify and other places. Need to be more vigilant I guess.

If someone on Amazon is selling them for $14 (13.99) then $15 at a show doesn't seem unfair at all.


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BTW, I've been very happy with Kunaki. I've never had a dud CD and the CD's always look great. You can let the app design the full color cover for you, or you can do it yourself. If you've never used them, you get one free CD to try out the service. Costs scale according to how many you need (and there is a shipping charge).

1-5 copies: $1.10 per copy
6-99 copies: $1.90 per copy
100-499 copies: $1.50 per copy
500-749 copies: $1.25 per copy
750+ copies: $0.90 per copy

So, I plugged in 500 copies sent to my address, which would cost $625 for the shrink wrapped jewel case CDs, plus total shipping of $181.50 (36 cents per unit), for a total of $806.50 for 500 units. Look at the distribution tab on the web site for more information about how to get CD's in the hands of your customers.




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Thirteen years ago, I paid twice those rates for Oasis to print the CDs.


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Qty 500 might be "irrational exuberance " for my first release.

I have looked at Kunaki and am happy to have your opinion of their work.

It looks like the major cost in the effort might be paying the royalties
I expect to pay about between $20-25 per song for 10-15 conves range at quantity 101.
That was through easysonglicensing.com.
I don't mind paying. I certainly want to be paid once all my songs for the ages hit the street.
I'd rather spend less but really want a one stop shop to handle all the copyright stuff

All in less than $500 for the cd's seems good value and the learning experience along the way.

Now all i need is some time to tweak the arrangements and lay down the guitar tracks.


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The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

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