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#543007 - 06/27/19 12:05 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Mac OS Catalina [Re: Mike Halloran]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 4071
Pipeline Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 4071
If you don't know how to do it your best to leave it alone.
I have no problem at all doing it.
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#543128 - 06/27/19 06:25 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Mac OS Catalina [Re: Atmospheric]
Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 946
JayO Offline
Expert

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 946
Hey Mike, I wouldn't be so quick to write Pipeline off.
Look for some of his older posts, he's done some crazy stuff just because he could. smile

I actually followed the instructions he posted for running RealBand in a WINE wrapper a while back and it worked surprisingly well.
I also played around with it for a while too, but found it a bit kludgey routing MIDI over IAC busses, and audio through Soundflower just to link the Windows and Mac sides.
Amazingly though, it did work pretty well feeding into Logic on the Mac side (and with surprisingly little latency too). shocked

So if anybody here could do something that most would call "impossible" it would be Pipline. laugh

As far as multiple operating systems/backward compatibility, if that's one of the points of contention (I'm not sure if I'm following this discussion correctly, it's getting a bit confusing now). LOL blush

Right now I currently have Snow Leopard, El Capitan, and High Sierra partitions I can boot from, and I'm sure I can still boot all the in between versions if I bothered to load them.
I have a drive sitting on the desk which I was booting Mojave from, but too many plugin UI graphics glitches with my "non metal" card, so I shelved it for now.

One of my main reasons for multi-booting is that I have a lot of older work in Cubase SX3 which was PPC only, so I boot into Snow Leopard fairly often to export files for use in Logic or Cubase 10.
It's a testament to how far the hardware has come in 10 years that I can run a PPC program in a 10 year old operating system, even through "Rosetta's" dynamic compilation and have it feel like the same performance as back in the day (feel not benchmarks).
With 12 cores, solid state drives, and boatloads of RAM I can run anything all the way back to the advent of 32 bit programs (be it PPC or Intel) and have it actually be useable.

Sorry if I lost the point of this conversation, and sent it out into left field, but I believe you were still talking about backward compatibility right ?
If not then as Emily Litella used to say... "never mind". blush

Anyway... back to Catilina....
I've been using BIAB since version 3 or 4 (late '80's can't remember), and I've seen PG make the leap from 16 to 32 bits, 68K to PPC, PPC to Intel, and every roadblock Apple has thrown up with their OS updates in between.

I have complete confidence that they will be able to make the transition to 64 bits.

- Jay
_________________________
MacPro 5,1/12 core@3.46GHz -- OS X 10.14.6 -- ATI 7970 -- 32 Gig RAM -- Crucial 500GB OS SSD -- Samsung EVO 1TB Audio/Sample SSD -- BIAB 2019 -- Logic Pro X -- Cubase Elements 10 -- Too many plugins

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#543223 - 06/28/19 11:29 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Mac OS Catalina [Re: Atmospheric]
Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 250
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Mike Halloran Offline
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Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 250
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
I know why I threw the red flag and have no intention of going down that rabbit hole.

Anyway, the MacOS is going forward. BIAB must do the same and we've been told they are so all's good on that front. Just wish they'd hurry up

Posts about how the Mac OS should try to remain backwards compatible are pointless. Apple announced this (removing 32 bit support) for what became Yosemite OS 10.10 then kicked the can. I'm glad to see it. Every major OS/iOS upgrade has benefited me greatly—would I feel the same were I not handicapped? Pointless speculation since I can't undo what happened.

Comparisons with Windows are just silly. First off, the vaunted backwards compatibility is more legend than fact — as I found when I was supporting 95/NT apps the week that XT was released (that was a nightmare for many companies). I signed an NDA regarding how it affected aspects of our product. Later, some of my older apps never survived the transition to Win7. I think my current company is officially Windows but most of us use Macs now because of our core app — it's possible I was the first to discover the advantages.

In any case, that Apple is pulling the plug on 32bit and Microsoft isn't (yet?) can be subject for endless discussion but it doesn't mean anything really. It's a fact and isn't going away. No amount of yak, yak, yak can change that.

In short: There's no problem to be solved here other than we haven't seen BIAB 2019 for the Mac. I'll be surprised if it's released before September when it will be tested against the shipping OS 10.15 but that's a guess. Until PG Music lets us know, all we can do is speculate.
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BIAB 2019 Audiophile 2017 iMac Pro 2T SSDx2 Mojave; 2012 MBP Catalina
Overture 5 DP 10 LogicProX Finale 26, Encore 5.0.7 SmartScoreX2P Notion 6
Legacy G4-1K DP OS 10.4.11 / OS 9.2 Apps

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#543857 - 07/02/19 05:22 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Mac OS Catalina [Re: Atmospheric]
Registered: 09/28/14
Posts: 67
Loc: Chicago and Twin Cities
Bob P Offline
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Registered: 09/28/14
Posts: 67
Loc: Chicago and Twin Cities
I think BIAB as a AU inside of Logic Pro will really expand the market for PG and can be a game breaker for publishers who are using a lot of inferior solutions. I think the secret we all have here (and the competitive advantage) will disappear as more people use this.

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#543914 - 07/03/19 08:18 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Mac OS Catalina [Re: Bob P]
Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 250
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Mike Halloran Offline
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Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 250
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Originally Posted By: Bob P
I think BIAB as a AU inside of Logic Pro will really expand the market for PG and can be a game breaker for publishers who are using a lot of inferior solutions. I think the secret we all have here (and the competitive advantage) will disappear as more people use this.
Yes, that feature in 2019 for Windows shows promise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8aAOQmhOw8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVShb4lZr4w

Ok, I'll bite. How would BIAB as a plugin in Logic be a "game breaker for publishers"?

I can see it benefitting composers and arrangers — especially those under a deadline but publishers? What am I not seeing?

I used to use the BIAB plugin in Finale when doing infomercials under deadline so I know the value.

We can hope that 2019 for Mac will include the new plug as an AU. If not, a 64 bit VST will be fine for most of us though not Logic users.

I'd really like to see the BIAB plugin come back for Finale. That would be really nice.
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Audiophile 2017 iMac Pro 2T SSDx2 Mojave; 2012 MBP Catalina
Overture 5 DP 10 LogicProX Finale 26, Encore 5.0.7 SmartScoreX2P Notion 6
Legacy G4-1K DP OS 10.4.11 / OS 9.2 Apps

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#544667 - 07/08/19 06:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Mac OS Catalina [Re: Mike Halloran]
Registered: 09/28/14
Posts: 67
Loc: Chicago and Twin Cities
Bob P Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/28/14
Posts: 67
Loc: Chicago and Twin Cities
Sorry-- you are correct-- I didn't proof read--- I wrote publishers when I really meant producers/composers

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#545105 - 07/12/19 04:06 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Mac OS Catalina [Re: Mike Halloran]
Registered: 11/28/18
Posts: 4
Robert Wood Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/28/18
Posts: 4
Originally Posted By: Mike Halloran

Anyway, the MacOS is going forward. BIAB must do the same and we've been told they are so all's good on that front.


Hi Mike - has PG Music officially stated they are developing a proper 64-bit app for Mac? Looking at the state of the current app, and the UX, I am worried that the (not insignificant amount of) money I tipped into buying this product 6 months ago is going to be wasted.

I find it quite bizarre that PG Music keeps silent on their plans, and doesn't discuss a roadmap. They currently own this market, but are missing out on all the music producers who use iOS, and potentially MacOS and iPadOS going forward. If we knew they were properly redeveloping the app in Swift, and had their eye on SwiftUI and Project Catalyst, it would be a great relief for the future of the app in the Apple world. Unfortunately, from what I can see of their customer support and the existing app, I am not particularly confident that they are on top of this. I seriously doubt we will see an AUV3 Band in a Box plugin anytime soon, if ever - which would be a waste of the resources and IP they have built over the years. It's not like they haven't had enough time to develop a proper product roadmap for Apple's technology future. And a hell of a lot of musicians and producers are all-in on Apple and Logic Pro.

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#545160 - 07/12/19 10:29 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Mac OS Catalina [Re: Atmospheric]
Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 250
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Mike Halloran Offline
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Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 250
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
That 2019 for the Mac is coming was mentioned in response to one of many threads on this subject. I don't have time to look through all of them to find it.

Since it must be compatible with the next MacOS, I'll be surprised if it's released before Catalina.

Quote:
I seriously doubt we will see an AUV3 Band in a Box plugin anytime soon, if ever
Since no version of BIAB exists for iOS, I can't imagine we will in 2019. The app called Band in a Box in the App Store is a client app for certain BIAB Windows functionality on your iOS device—not the same thing.

AUv3 is not required for Catalina. I think the rollout to Marzipan based apps will be a lot slower than any of the wishful thinkers would like to see.

With Marzipan, OS 10.15 is making this possible—iOS apps to the Mac, not waving some kind of magic wand that just allows it to happen. It's a one-way street and does nothing to make Mac apps run in iOS.

Logic users will need to see an AU plugin for that new DAW functionality so it will be nice if it's there. Most other DAWs on the Mac can use VSTs including Digital Performer. I will be upset only if the plugin isn't there.
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Audiophile 2017 iMac Pro 2T SSDx2 Mojave; 2012 MBP Catalina
Overture 5 DP 10 LogicProX Finale 26, Encore 5.0.7 SmartScoreX2P Notion 6
Legacy G4-1K DP OS 10.4.11 / OS 9.2 Apps

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#545244 - 07/12/19 09:10 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Mac OS Catalina [Re: Mike Halloran]
Registered: 11/28/18
Posts: 4
Robert Wood Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/28/18
Posts: 4
Originally Posted By: Mike Halloran
That 2019 for the Mac is coming was mentioned in response to one of many threads on this subject. I don't have time to look through all of them to find it.


What I am wanting to know is whether PG Music has ever officially stated that BIAB 2019 for Mac was coming - and that it would be 64 bit. I have tried to ask customer support but they were totally evasive. I worry that this major redevelopment might be too hard and not deemed worthwhile.

Originally Posted By: Mike Halloran
Since no version of BIAB exists for iOS, I can't imagine we will in 2019. The app called Band in a Box in the App Store is a client app for certain BIAB Windows functionality on your iOS device—not the same thing.

AUv3 is not required for Catalina.


My mistake, I meant to say AU, not AUV3. Many Mac users would be using Logic Pro X and a VST won't be much use. Sure, I would love to see BIAB on iOS but understand that is not viable at the moment due to the state of the legacy code.

Originally Posted By: Mike Halloran
I think the rollout to Marzipan based apps will be a lot slower than any of the wishful thinkers would like to see.


What I am getting at is if PG Music were to outline that they were redeveloping this properly utilising the Cocoa framework and programming it with Swift then a number of future possibilities will start to open up. And declarative user interfaces in SwiftUI, along with Project Catalyst/Marzipan, are as close to a magic wand as an Apple developer is likely to find... :-)

I am just hoping PG Music are all in with where Apple is going - but am not feeling confident from my experiences to date. I don't mind if they initially have to launch a very limited feature set providing they have built something on a proper modern framework.

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#545374 - 07/13/19 05:46 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Mac OS Catalina [Re: Atmospheric]
Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 250
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Mike Halloran Offline
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Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 250
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Quote:
My mistake, I meant to say AU, not AUV3
Ok, that makes more sense.
Quote:
Many Mac users would be using Logic Pro X and a VST won't be much use.
I've said the same thing but there are other DAWs that can use VSTs on a Mac — such as nearly all others.

Finale must use AUs only but it isn't a DAW. I'd really like to see a BIAB plugin for Finale but, if not, I can fire up Finale 2014.5 on one of my other iMacs that doesn't run Mojave and use the BIAB plugin there like I did in 2002. If I need to badly enough, I'll make it work.

How often does PG Music tell us in advance what's coming? Not very... though sometimes they do.

I have no pipeline into them except the same as anyone else—email and phone. I don't really care about the timeline—it happens when it does and I have my upgrade budgeted for that eventuality.

If 2019 doesn't happen, I'll pull out one of my older iMacs to run 2018 when I need to (I have a few that can't run Catalina) but my iMac Pro will be updated within a few weeks of the general release—my music industry day job will require it.

Worst case for me? Nothing changes and I keep my money. PG Music won't get my upgrade $$$, however, and I have the Audiophile version.

I spent over a decade working for a Windows software company and have consulted to Apple (scanning and printing working properly beginning OS 10.8.2—you're welcome). Not knowing exactly what's coming and when; not being told or having to keep info secret till a release, not revealing beta, NDAs, not discussing anything about what I do for a living... All in a day's work in the Silicon Valley.
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BIAB 2019 Audiophile 2017 iMac Pro 2T SSDx2 Mojave; 2012 MBP Catalina
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#545857 - 07/18/19 06:11 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Mac OS Catalina [Re: Atmospheric]
Registered: 07/08/19
Posts: 39
Loc: Worcester, United Kingdom
TRYUK Offline
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Registered: 07/08/19
Posts: 39
Loc: Worcester, United Kingdom
Re Band in a Box 2019 for Mac.

I am not sure if this is true or not, I found it on the Facebook Band in a Box user-group. Joanne Cooper who is an authorised seller in Johannesburg claims the word from PG Music is late August.

We will just have to wait and see I guess, but I hope its true or I will be stuck on Mojave.
_________________________
Mojave 10.14.6, iMac 4K, Logic Pro X, BiaB UltraPak 2019 Mac, Native Instruments A61.

Catalina 10.15, MacBook Air, Logic Pro X, BiaB Ultrapak 2019 Mac, Arturia Keystep.

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#545919 - 07/18/19 01:36 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Mac OS Catalina [Re: Atmospheric]
Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 250
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Mike Halloran Offline
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Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 250
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Quote:
Joanne Cooper who ... claims the word from PG Music is late August.

That should be around the time that the final beta is released for Catalina. Makes sense.

Thanks for the heads up!
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Audiophile 2017 iMac Pro 2T SSDx2 Mojave; 2012 MBP Catalina
Overture 5 DP 10 LogicProX Finale 26, Encore 5.0.7 SmartScoreX2P Notion 6
Legacy G4-1K DP OS 10.4.11 / OS 9.2 Apps

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#546060 - 07/20/19 05:58 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Mac OS Catalina [Re: Mike Halloran]
Registered: 09/28/14
Posts: 67
Loc: Chicago and Twin Cities
Bob P Offline
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Registered: 09/28/14
Posts: 67
Loc: Chicago and Twin Cities
Is the audiophile version that much better to justify the cost?

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#546090 - 07/20/19 11:12 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Mac OS Catalina [Re: Bob P]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5445
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5445
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Originally Posted By: Bob P
Is the audiophile version that much better to justify the cost?


The answer is, it depends. For education, practice and hobbyist use, the answer is likely no. For users that create audio for commercial distribution or have really good hearing, yes.

The difference essentially boils down to the answer to the question, Can you hear or need the difference in fidelity between using a compressed (lossy) or uncompressed (lossless) audio file? Generally speaking most people can not tell the difference when a compressed or uncompressed RealTrack or RealDrum audio file is played. Those that do hear distortion in the higher frequencies.

User Matt Finley created a post that provides a more detailed answer +++ HERE +++
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Jim Fogle
2019 UltraPlusPak BiaB(637) RealBand(Build 5)
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#546151 - 07/20/19 07:15 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Mac OS Catalina [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 250
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Mike Halloran Offline
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Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 250
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
Originally Posted By: Bob P
Is the audiophile version that much better to justify the cost?


The answer is, it depends. For education, practice and hobbyist use, the answer is likely no. For users that create audio for commercial distribution or have really good hearing, yes.
...

What Jim says.

Often, the Audiophile Tracks don't have what I need. That's ok—like the rest of BIAB, they're time savers. If I'm not using the Audiophile tracks, it's because I've ported the MIDI over into a DAW and am assigning other VIs (virtual instruments).

When I pull out BIAB, someone is getting invoiced. My customers are getting the best quality that I can deliver — whether they can hear it or not.
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Audiophile 2017 iMac Pro 2T SSDx2 Mojave; 2012 MBP Catalina
Overture 5 DP 10 LogicProX Finale 26, Encore 5.0.7 SmartScoreX2P Notion 6
Legacy G4-1K DP OS 10.4.11 / OS 9.2 Apps

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#546157 - 07/20/19 08:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Mac OS Catalina [Re: Mike Halloran]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 4071
Pipeline Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 4071
Originally Posted By: Mike Halloran
You described a technical impossibility..


Now that's working fine, I just need the MacBB 2019.8
but while I'm waiting I can boot up on Win7 or Win10 and use WinBB 2019.
If an app won't run I boot on the Mac volume that will run it.
I can use any OS without feeling embarrassed or ashamed that my Mac or Win friends will find out that I'm doing such a sacrilegious thing.
I have no problem using any OS all day long as long as I can create music on it smile I drove a BMW the other day and then got out into a Honda, they were a bit different but I soon got the hang of it.







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PG Music News
Notation Enhancements in Band-in-a-Box® 2019

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows was released in December 2018, and included many new features and enhancements - like the enhancements we made to our Notation window!

These include:
-Pressing the space bar plays the song from the current location.
-Double-clicking on the Standard mode Notation window (or on the time line in Editable or Staff Roll mode) plays the song from the current time location.
-The right-click menu in the Editable or Staff Roll mode Notation window has an option to change the current beat resolution. Previously, the only way to do this was to right-click on the time line.
-Clicking close to a stave line will put a note on the stave line instead of between stave lines. Previously, you had to click extremely close to a stave line to insert a note on it.
-In the Notation Windows Options dialog, the clefs split point asterisk indicates that C5* is middle C.
-The clefs split point can be set by the spin controls.
-You can quickly enter forced accidentals from the right-click menu.
-A new track type (Drums) is available for the Melody and Soloist tracks.
-Holding down the Ctrl key and pressing the zoom in/out buttons results in finest possible incremental adjustment in size.
-There's a keystroke entry mode -the "N" mode, which lets you enter a melody entirely using keystrokes. The keystrokes are N to enter a note, up/down cursor to change its pitch, and left/right cursor to move the time line.
-A new button in the Print Options dialog lets you quickly print a "chords only" fake sheet. You can also access this from the right-click menu on the Chord Sheet.
-You can now edit any track in the Event List Editor. When the dialog opens, it will show you the MIDI data in the current notation track.


There's detailed information on our 2019 notation enhancements here: Band-in-a-Box® 2019 New Feature - Notation Enhancements

Jump to the Notation topic in our Band-in-a-Box® 2019 new features video.

Band-in-a-Box® Drum Features!

Today is National Drummer Day!
(not to be confused with National Hug a Drummer Day, which is October 10th)

Band-in-a-Box® is a great resource for drummers! Practice with an on-demand back-up band, learn from the Pro's with RealDrums notation (RealCharts, new with version 2019), MIDI drums notation, or play in the Drum Kit Window!

Not a drummer? Add drums to your Band-in-a-Box® project with RealDrums! Whether you're looking for Bluegrass, Blues, Bossa, Country, Dance, Dixieland, Folk, Funk, HipHop, Jazz, Latin, Metal, Pop, RnB, Rock, Soul, Techno, Traditional, Waltz, or World (and variations within) - you'll definitely find what you're looking for in our RealDrums library - there are over 500 available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac Build 315 Update Available!

Attention Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac users - a new FREE patch update (build 315) is available!
Review details and download here

Summary of changes for build 315 (Nov 15, 2019):

Fixed: Exporting MusicXML files was not working.
Fixed: When using "Auto-Hand split Piano track" feature, exported MIDI files contain wrong note durations on the Piano track.
Fixed: Note-based lyrics were not included when exporting MIDI files.
Fixed: User should be prompted to save their song when exiting, if they had added or removed plugins.
Fixed: The Record Audio dialog always says “Track type is Stereo” even if the track type is mono.
Fixed: The [Audio Options…] button in the Record Audio dialog was launching the Audio Devices dialog instead of the Audio Settings dialog.
Fixed: Loops dialog title bar displays wrong track name.
Fixed: Large patch map files are not completely loaded (were limited to 1985 patches).
Fixed: Notation context menu > Edit Section Text… did not do anything.
Fixed: Notation context menu > Insert Section Text… did not do anything.

My Favorite Things - Nudge Chords in Band-in-a-Box®

Love this time saving feature.

Ever fill in the chordsheet fully or for part of song, and then discover you want to add or take away an extra beat or more somewhere in the chordsheet.

Nudge chords (melody) from the Edit Menu is your friend here, the dialog will give you all the options either to remove or add beats where its needed.

Love it.
-musiclover

To learn more about this feature, read the "Advanced Chord Entry and Editing Features" topic when you click here.

Band-in-a-Box® Video Testimonial & Demo - Rodney Gene Junior

Band-in-a-Box® endorsing artist Rodney Gene Junior has shared his latest User Testimonial and Demo with us, and we LOVE it! Not only does Rodney share with the viewer his enthusiasm for our program, he also shares a few examples of how he uses Band-in-a-Box® too - make sure you check it out!

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Testimonial Video - Peter Torpey

Check out our latest Band-in-a-Box video testimonial, which takes using the program to a whole new level! Peter Torpey is a long time program user who has developed a way to work with the program, even though he's visually impaired - and he wants to make sure that others can too!
Click here to watch!

Learn more about Peter here.

View all our video testimonials here.

Want to make your own Testimonial? We'd love to see it! There's information on our Video Testimonials offer here.

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac Upgrade & Full Manuals Available!
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