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#544474 - 07/07/19 07:32 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: PETITION: Mr Gannon: Sell your company or full BIAB IP rights and tech to YAMAHA [Re: nonchai]
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1281
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
MountainSide Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1281
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
-1 from me too!
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#544555 - 07/07/19 11:37 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: PETITION: Mr Gannon: Sell your company or full BIAB IP rights and tech to YAMAHA [Re: nonchai]
Registered: 12/04/13
Posts: 80
balbuena Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/04/13
Posts: 80
-1.
I love biab as it is, I do not support your petition.

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#545114 - 07/12/19 07:11 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: PETITION: Mr Gannon: Sell your company or full BIAB IP rights and tech to YAMAHA [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 232
nonchai Offline
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Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 232
Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
Yamaha is a huge company with extensive resources. If they wanted to, they could just develop their own product. They wouldn't need to purchase another company's system to deliver anything. Why do they need to purchase BiaB to produce a product? They are absolutely capable to independently develop their own technology, surely? But they haven't done this. Also, they may not be in the slightest bit interested in BiaB.

I personally don't support the petition.


well. PG Music do have patents out on aspects of the BIAB RealTrack technology for starters. Plus even with extensive resources it might make for more sense both practically and financially to NOT reinvent the wheel - and instead build on existing foundations and - particularly the style content audio-wise.

One might just as well ask the same question in regard to Cubase or Line 6's. amp modelling tech and IP.
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#545119 - 07/12/19 07:23 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Biab Plugin [Re: Pipeline]
Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 232
nonchai Offline
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Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 232
Originally Posted By: Pipeline

Clearly a tighter integration into a DAW like Cubase depends on the DAW developers being open to liaison and API support of the necessary technical requirements. Sometimes this is already supported in some sense - like for example the DOM object model in Ableton for Max4Live programming and support for python scripts for 3rd Pty hardware in Ableton . But I have no idea how much similar support is available nowadays in Cubase, Logic or PT or other DAWs.
Yea like ARA, maybe that will be implemented in the plugin down the track

I don't think you will be disappointed with the plugin when the Mac version is release (soon hopefully), as it's come a long way since the initial Win release.
[/quote]

To me - With Cubase now having its own arranger feature which allows one to structure song sections - it would seem that a much closer liaison Wirth Steinberg/Yamaha. with regard to making the song structure metadata in BIAB keep in-sync with arranger metadata in the Cubase project would only be achievable at all With a very close collaboration of both teams.

And to me it would seem that once a BIAB plugin is being used - to have BIAB reflect changes in the Cubase Pro song-form arranger structure and regenerate accordingly would be very desirable.

But would Steinberg/Yamaha be so willing to pass on the details and make some kind of API for just BIAB in order to do this - unless there was some better and tighter form of contractual liason between the two?

I suppose it could be argued Celemony have been able to do this - with ARA - but then Melodyne is arguably something with a much broader and larger user market than BIAB so DAW makers were willing to do the necessary plumbing to incorporate it.

But does this apply to BIAB ?

I'd suggest not - unless Yamaha/Steinberg had some kind of better financial incentive in plumbing a seamless connection between the two worlds/apps.
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Arturia Audiofuse, L6 HX Stomp, MASCHINE JAM, Komplete Kontrol MkII 88
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#546154 - 07/20/19 07:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Biab Plugin [Re: nonchai]
Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 1469
Loc: Stanwell Park NSW Australia
rayc Offline
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Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 1469
Loc: Stanwell Park NSW Australia
PG is a unique company with its own culture and issues some of which amke it better and some less so. Working with Reaper is excellent as the business model and culture in Reaper/Cockos is a big part of its appeal.
I like most aspects of PG/BIAB - limitations included plus I'm not interested in Midi.
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#547460 - 07/30/19 12:29 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Biab Plugin [Re: nonchai]
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7152
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7152
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
A lot of technical talk going on here that is way over my head. I like arranger keyboards, I have a Korg Pa3X and some of it's styles are just great, much better than anything Biab has. All an arranger keyboard is is a collection of small midi files coupled to a first class hardware midi synth plus embedded software and hardware control buttons to integrate it all.

Since Korg/Yamaha (Korg is owned by Yamaha) have been making hardware synths forever, this is no problem to do. Both are already going in the direction of using their versions of Real Tracks/Drums. Yamaha's latest arrangers use Real Drums extensively for example and others use that plus have the somewhat limited ability to use audio files (basically RT's) integrated with the styles. Everybody uses Zplane for time streching so making an audio snippet follow chords and key changes is no problem either. That's obviously the direction they're going in and in a few years I expect the top arranger keyboards from both companies to be basically Biab in a keyboard and use RT's and RD's extensively. As far as styles they already have better styles than Biab does in many cases. The Genos and the new Pa4x are simply outstanding with their styles.

Regarding styles, the other thread in the Wishlist forum brought out the fact the Biab's midi Stylemaker has several flaws which is probably why Biab's styles are not anywhere near as sophisticated as Yamaha's or Korgs. So why does Yamaha need PG again?

Where's the need to integrate with Biab as far as DAW's are concerned? Yamaha already has all this and is working on more. They should be able to integrate that tech into Cubase if they wanted to. Patents are patents. Smart developers have had no problem coming up with different ways to do the same thing that don't violate someone else's patent.

I have to say -1 on this too because this concept will soon be redundant. My worry is these companies will encroach on PG's territory so much that PG itself may be redundant as all of us old fart users leave the scene and the new bloods are well versed in the latest DAW's that already have all or most of Biab's functions. IF Yamaha decides to go that way. Maybe they won't and PG gets to carry on in their niche.

Bob


Edited by jazzmammal (07/30/19 12:44 PM)
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#547598 - 07/31/19 12:02 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Biab Plugin [Re: nonchai]
Registered: 01/26/05
Posts: 225
Loc: Denmark
stratos Offline
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Registered: 01/26/05
Posts: 225
Loc: Denmark
Big MINUS 1 from me.
Thanks Peter for a unique program..

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#547669 - 08/01/19 04:53 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Biab Plugin [Re: nonchai]
Registered: 07/08/19
Posts: 88
Loc: TN
Roger Brown Offline
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Registered: 07/08/19
Posts: 88
Loc: TN
Huge minus 1 for me as well.
I don't work with or have in interest in working with midi.
At the risk of a thread derail, I also am philosophically opposed to petitioning someone to sell their own company, property, or anything else.

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#548608 - 08/08/19 05:27 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Biab Plugin [Re: nonchai]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7826
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7826
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
I usually say this once a year.I HOPE PG NEVER SELLS OUT.WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO AFFORD IT ON A YEARLY BASIS.
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#548872 - 08/10/19 02:07 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Biab Plugin [Re: nonchai]
Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 547
Loc: UK
Bob Calver Offline
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Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 547
Loc: UK
As Jazzmammal says, a lot of technical talk and its above my head. I have been using BIAB since it was on floppy discs and the current program is light years better although I played live with BIAB tracks created on the original programs as all midi tracks and edited in Powertracks.

RealBand is a great add on to BIAB and I've not found anything I want to do that I couldn't do using BIAB then RB - although sometimes I've needed forum help.

I value the personal support I get from PG Music and the fact that named individuals contribute to these forums and reply to my emails.

Having been the client on a fair few music sessions for tv and radio with talented engineers I know how good the interaction with live musicians is - they can adapt what they play to your suggestions. BIAB and RB can't do that - but that's about all I've found in practice that affects my music. And regenerating tracks or editing multiriffs together usually gets me as close to the final result I want as to make no difference.

Good luck to Peter Gannon and the team - no need to change - and although some of us have wishlist ideas that date back a long time - dealing with a big soulless company is a horrendous idea.

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#548924 - 08/11/19 10:52 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Biab Plugin [Re: nonchai]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19139
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19139
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Please, friends, no personal attack on the OP.

I respect his points, and although I disagree with his conclusion, he has every right to make proposals here.

EDIT: the comment that prompted me to write this post has been removed. Thank you.


Edited by Matt Finley (08/12/19 09:52 AM)
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#548984 - 08/11/19 10:05 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Why would Mr. Gannon sell a company that has loyal followers internationally? [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 08/12/13
Posts: 7
notebynote Offline
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Registered: 08/12/13
Posts: 7
And, what happens when all of a sudden the newly absorbed/purchased PG Music under a new corporate flag gets cancelled with no further updates or future development for no logical reason?... Now, you have lost the DAW that probably helped you develop your interest in music and songwriting in the first place.
You can always work out the initial tune you want in BIAB and then import those files to an expensive DAW or outside studio for mixing/mastering.

***Ever try to get "Tech Support" from an individual that doesn't even own the product?????

***For an example of this nightmare, try going to Microsoft Tech Support for anything. Take a nerve pill and put the phone on speaker. By the way, you will be doing all the talking.

Let's just keep what we got and use the forums for help if the "Sales Dept." was not able to answer you question!!!

Regards to all,
notebynote

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#549581 - 08/15/19 10:50 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: PETITION: Mr Gannon: Sell your company or full BIAB IP rights and tech to YAMAHA [Re: nonchai]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7826
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7826
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
I apologize to all my friends and colleagues for my angry response.I could have been more assertive and less aggressive. I especially apologize to PGM.
I still am highly against it.
I will support Peter and his Co. always. To use the comments I did was not support. Sorry. Matt I truly appreciate you making me rethink my negative attitude. I'm smarter than that.


Edited by silvertones (08/15/19 10:51 AM)
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#549590 - 08/15/19 11:24 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: PETITION: Mr Gannon: Sell your company or full BIAB IP rights and tech to YAMAHA [Re: nonchai]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19139
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19139
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You’re a good soul, John. Cheers!
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#559407 - 10/16/19 05:13 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: PETITION: Mr Gannon: Sell your company or full BIAB IP rights and tech to YAMAHA [Re: nonchai]
Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 232
nonchai Offline
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Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 232
I would have humbly settled for - and accepted - the clearly overwhelming feeling and consensus among respondents here that they don't want this to happen.

I *would* have - were it not for the fact that - yet again - a promising - highly significant and potentially hugely creatively and workflow-enhancing feature - BIAB as an OSX VST/AU plugin - was released in a manner not only buggy but unfit for purpose.

Because until the above realtime streaming from BBM/BIAB features are added - the plugin certainly isnt fit for any early production or composing process when one wants to do any experimentation or try out of different progression ideas.

I really think this plugin-thing was released much too early. It lacks essential features - and frankly is as buggy as hell. And should still be in alpha state. Sorry to be a party pooper but this kind of thing happens just too often over years I've been a BIAB user. And I've paid many hundreds of dollars over decades now for latest update based on a new promised feature only to find that the feature is either half-baked or that latest BIAB is just too buggy.

This happened when they announced a "plugin-mode" which wasn't actually a plugin at all
This happened when they added ability to host VST/AU plugins .
This happened when they *finally* added the piano-roll editor to the Mac version.
This happened when they recently added true plugin operation for OSX.

And this - is why I STILL stand by my argument that PG should consider becoming part of Yamaha or Steinberg.

If Yamaha will have them.

The bug fixing and product refinement process - along with how bugs are [not] fixed over the year. Is for me at least unsatisfactory - and simply not to the same standards of other players in the music software landscape. It seems the case that because no one - clearly no-one - has any product anything like BIAB - that PG is able to get away with extremely shoddy bugs. and is in a situation that in order to maintain sufficient revenue to pay its staff it instead goes through a yearly cycle where new features are released often in a poorly thought out or complete state.... and yet earlier bugs still aren't fixed.

I should not have to use an app where I'm constantly worried about crashes or hangs.

There is NO other music app or plugin I use where I have to take this into effect.



Edited by nonchai (10/16/19 05:21 AM)
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Arturia Audiofuse, L6 HX Stomp, MASCHINE JAM, Komplete Kontrol MkII 88
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#559467 - 10/16/19 12:51 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: PETITION: Mr Gannon: Sell your company or full BIAB IP rights and tech to YAMAHA [Re: nonchai]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 4071
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 4071
This is a reply in another forum but relative here:
EDIT: If PG sold out in the day Yamaha would still be using midi and would not have Audio Styles.
Originally Posted By: Pipeline
I see Yamaha have followed and learnt from PG Music as they now have Audio Styles with RT and RD. It was not Yamaha's idea. It took 50 years for Steinberg add a simple chord track, when did PG have a chord track?
The original idea of the Biab Plugin was to add tracks to your recorded session live or studio this way you already have the chords you are not making songs from scratch, that's what Biab main is for. The Biab Plugin was a lite version without zillions of features and menus with a very high learning curve, there are so many DAW users that were put off by the complexities of Biab.
There are users that have learnt Biab over 500 years and would rather ReWire than a simple basic Plugin.
I don't think the Biab Plugin was designed and marketed for you, but for DAW only users that would not go near the Biab main app because of the complexities mention before, so would not a super complex Plugin put them off.
You are lucky you weren't a Win Beta tester when the plugin was first released, if you thinks it's bad now.
Just give it some time it will get there. Adar works flat out every day improving and fixing issues.


Edited by Pipeline (10/16/19 03:37 PM)
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#559551 - 10/17/19 08:20 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: PETITION: Mr Gannon: Sell your company or full BIAB IP rights and tech to YAMAHA [Re: Pipeline]
Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 232
nonchai Offline
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Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 232
Two questions pertinent here.

Is Adar handling plugin code for both windows and Mac?
Is he also responsible for the server code in that BBM4 hidden app?

Strikes me that if so - and given PG have stated that their finances aren't an issue - that they should be hiring a second developer.

Patience pipeline is one thing - but when it becomes so clear that a feature was put out well before it was fit for purpose it strikes me as indicative of a marketing and sales department so keen or desperate to bring in revenue that it chooses to pressure the developers into "releasing" a product or feature addition to a (yearly) release cycle that any sensible, honest and professional developer would fight against - knowing it was neither fully debugged nor actually ready for any sensible use.

As I've written before this isn't a once off phenomenon of this - PG haver a history of over-hyping new features but under-delivering and often just ignoring sensible feedback when the feature is clearly half-baked - and in no small way.
again -

This happened when they announced a "plugin-mode" which wasn't actually a plugin at all
This happened when they added ability to host VST/AU plugins .
This happened when they *finally* added the piano-roll editor to the Mac version.
This happened when they recently added true plugin operation for OSX.
_________________________
Mojave - Mac Mini i7 2018, 64GB RAM 2TB SSD
BIAB 2019,
Cubase 10, Ableton, MASCHINE, Vienna Ensemble Pro ..
Arturia Audiofuse, L6 HX Stomp, MASCHINE JAM, Komplete Kontrol MkII 88
podgy face, beer belly, bald patch .... yadda yadda blah blah blah

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#559553 - 10/17/19 08:36 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: PETITION: Mr Gannon: Sell your company or full BIAB IP rights and tech to YAMAHA [Re: nonchai]
Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 232
nonchai Offline
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Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 232
Regarding Yamaha's chord track - yes its nothing like BIAB. And isn't intending to be. A comparison between Cubase and BIAB is a little pointless really. Bu the chord track - which is more about conforming existing **composer created* material to a chord timeline - is useful - and were it integrated in the future with some kind of BIAB engine component would be awesome.

Now to more important issues:

You wrote <<<The Biab Plugin was a lite version without zillions of features and menus with a very high learning curve, there are so many DAW users that were put off by the complexities of Biab.>>>

I have no objection with keeping the LITE version of BIAB plugin "lite" for reasons of simplicity (and the time needed to rewrite or repurpose the code and GUI for it ) as long as - with the use of something - yes- **AKIN** to ReWire but BETTER than ReWire- we can when needed - opt to use the full feature set of BIAB Standalone ( or maybe a modified BBM4 ) - but in a manner where ALL the song data gets saved and recalled inside the ONE file - namely the DAW project file.

<<<There are users that have learnt Biab over 500 years and would rather ReWire than a simple basic Plugin.>>>
<<<I don't think the Biab Plugin was designed and marketed for you, but for DAW only users that would not go near the Biab main app because of the complexities mention before, so would not a super complex Plugin put them off.>

Thats fine and I'm one of them. But ReWire is a pain in the neck - and as ive pointed out several times - has NO mechanism for saving the latest state of changes to BIAB arrangements inside the DAW. It is a simply midi and audio time-sync tool coupled with A MIDI and audio pipeline. No more.
And the dichotomy between a crippled and sluggish "Simple" plugin and a ReWire solution that involves unnecessary file loading etc etc.. is a problem.
Look at iOS - where the technology similar to ReWire - namely IAA is being deprecated and every developer is being encouraged to only use and develop AUv3 plugins and not IAA or AudioBus related products.

but instead of using ReWire - a win-win solution would be to keep the plugin pretty much simple as it is now - but make it operate optionally like Rewire - in that all regeneration takes place in BIAB Standalone - and BIAB Standalone gets put in a kind of "SYNC" mode where any change to the arrangement gets stored NOT in a song file but sent - via interprocess communications - in real time back to the plugin - in order that all BIAB data is saved in the BIAB *plugin* SaveState - in the DAW project file itself.

There is already at least one DAW plugin technology that uses a CLIENT-SERVER mode of operation out there. Namely Vienna Ensemble Pro. Now this isn't to deliver the same thing as BIAB but the point here is that there already exists plugins which have kind of "thin-client" PLUGIN - linked for its audio and MIDI data-flow - to a SERVER.
In the case of Vienna Ensemble Pro - in fact one can have several servers - but that's besides the point. But just like the Vienna Ensemble plugin and server have the benefit of using 100% proprietary technologies and protocols to tie client to server - so can PG. The future should NOT be reliant on a 3rd parties technology at all - namely Propellerheads ReWire.
And just to reiterate again - ReWire tech is a pain in the neck to set up and causes so many problems.
As if to reiterate the point - whereas Ableton can operate as a Rewire back end to apps like Logic - native Instruments Maschine instead operates as a full plugin. And as such is so much more reliable. And - just to hammer the point home again - whereas with Logic and Ableton Rewire one has to fuss around with two different files for any composition using this ReWire solution - this just isn't needed when using MASCHINE as a plugin inside a DAW.

This has maximum benefits workflow wise. Users can choose to enter simple arrangements where possible in the plugin. OR choose to operate the plugin in a client-server relationship to BIAB standalone - in other words very similar to ReWire - but with the benefit the the protocols would all be written and controlled by the PG team - no need for the ReWire middle layer - but more to the point - TOTAL RECALL of everything from the one DAW project file.

Otherwise. - as is now the case with ReWire on Windows BIAB - every time one goes to a saved DAW project on has to go ferreting round for the corresponding BIAB song file and load that - in two separate - time consuming - operations.

Hardly good workflow.


Edited by nonchai (10/17/19 08:57 AM)
_________________________
Mojave - Mac Mini i7 2018, 64GB RAM 2TB SSD
BIAB 2019,
Cubase 10, Ableton, MASCHINE, Vienna Ensemble Pro ..
Arturia Audiofuse, L6 HX Stomp, MASCHINE JAM, Komplete Kontrol MkII 88
podgy face, beer belly, bald patch .... yadda yadda blah blah blah

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#559586 - 10/17/19 12:34 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: PETITION: Mr Gannon: Sell your company or full BIAB IP rights and tech to YAMAHA [Re: nonchai]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 4071
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 4071
I can make you a script that will save the DAW project and the Biab project at the same time. It can be an always on top GUI with an Open & Save button, on Open it will get the file name of the DAW project, replace the file name extension with SGU to use in the Biab open dialog. On Save well that simply sends Ctrl+S to the DAW then Biab.

You are not paying extra for the Biab Plugin, the way it is now you can choose to just use Biab and drag the tracks in your DAW or you can help develop the Biab Plugin using it in the real world.

So basically what you need is for the Biab Plugin to generate tracks directly into RAM that the Biab Plugin will read directly from to give instant playback in the DAW and to have the option for it to write those tracks to hard disk silently in the background so when you want to drag the tracks into the DAW that will be instant.

If you are using the Biab main app in a "SYNC" mode you will only get 7 tracks not 21 with multiriffs.
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#559671 - 10/18/19 04:56 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: PETITION: Mr Gannon: Sell your company or full BIAB IP rights and tech to YAMAHA [Re: Pipeline]
Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 232
nonchai Offline
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Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 232
<<<<<. Pipeline ......I can make you a script that ......>>>>

thanks for the offer but I'm simply not up for workaround solutions that add yet another layer of complexity but cool if it works for you.

<<<<You are not paying extra for the Biab Plugin.............. >>>>>

Thats a matter of interpretation and each individual. For the last five decades I haven't paid the yearly update merely for more real tracks or some tweaks to the main feature set or just to have more bugs squashed. I paid for the update because a *specific* new feature was added. Some top promoted new feature that from the PG hype - promised to significantly change how I use BIAB and improves workflow or enhances creativity.
And each time that new hyped feature came out it was at first very buggy - and so often took ages until it behaved anywhere similar to how a similar feature would operate in a different tool. And in some cases still to this day doesn't have basic operational aspects that any other music app would have.

<<<<<<<<So basically what you need is for the Biab Plugin to generate tracks directly into RAM...... to give instant playback in the DAW >>>>

Not quite. THE *PLUGIN* would not generate *anything*.The "server" component would.

The plugin would remain a sort of "thin-client" as one says in the IT world which is currently how the plugin operates pretty much anyway right now. It will suffice if the BIAB plugin streams audio in real-time from BBM4 - or the BIAB Standalone - so BBM4 or BIAB Standalone do the generation into RAM - just as BIAB does now. For me - and I suspect many many others - for the early stages of production or composition - I don't want to do ANY dragging or dropping into the DAW tracks. That makes workflow sped up during a trial and error stage where one is trying out different arrangement ideas in BIAB.
During this stage one would be able to make changes to the BIAB song arrangement in either the plugin - if its something simple enough for the plugin GUI to support it ( chord/key changes ) - or if more involved - make the changes through BIAB Standalone. But when BIAB Standalone is in "server mode" as I propose - any changes to the BIAB song would be immediately sent to and mirrored by the plugin (invisibly by using interprocess communication protocols on the operating system ) and saved to the DAW project whenever the save feature in the DAW is used.

Then once things are firmed up "tracking" wise - and moving on into mix-down then I can imagine it would be best if the realtracks and BIAB MIDI were finally dragged into the DAW in order to "freeze" the whole project into the DAW.

<<<and to have the option for it to write those tracks to hard disk silently in the background so when you want to drag the tracks into the DAW that will be instant.>>>>>>>
No that's not so important. Given that I would only be dragging audio realtracks at all into a DAW at the very end of the production process - when there's little chance I need to change the BIAB arrangement - then for me it doesn't matter how long I have to wait in order for the BIAB arrangement to be written to disk. Things can stay exactly as they are at the moment. The key thing for me is that as soon as a BIAB arrangement is regenerated by the core BIAB engine relatively fast - as it is now - because the generation is done straight into RAM - that the plugin streams the audio from the RAM inside BBM or BIAB Standalone *itself*. This would be an instant and real-time process. And very similar internally to what BIAB windows has to do already right now when using ReWire. but NOT using ReWire.


<<<<If you are using the Biab main app in a "SYNC" mode you will only get 7 tracks not 21 with multiriffs.>>>>

Understood. Personally that's not a feature so important to me right now but I'm sure that in future when the plugin client-server architecture works more ideally - that the limit could move. Don't forget that what I' proposing is very close operationally to ReWire anyway. And PG have already implemented that on Windows.

Finally..... regarding the whole Rewire issue... I was just reminded that the actual company that created the ReWire API .... Propellerheads - where it was originally intended so that users of other DAWs could use REASON synced up and streamed audio/MIDI - wise - into the DAW itself......
....... regarding this... Propellerheads - ReWire - and REASON .....
...... guess who have just recently announced that REASON will now operate as a **plugin** inside a DAW - instead of just using ReWire?.................. you got it...... Propellerheads.

Clearly the creator of ReWire itself - Propellerheads - has recognised that ReWire is not a very good solution for running its OWN app alongside a DAW - and has thus... gone the route of a plugin.

So its clear - not only from a mere practicality view - but also from what is going on in the Apple iOS world ( deprecating IAA and the general move by music/audio app developers on that platform away from IAA and AudioBus. towards just developing and using AUv3 plugins.... ) - and finally from Propellerheads themselves .... that ReWire really does NOT represent the future - NOR - the best way of allowing two music creation apps to work together. ReWire should be considered an old technology. It simply isn t optimal. And I think (precious and expensive) developer time on BIAB OSX would be much better spent refining and reworking how the BIAB plugin operates - as I have outlined.

ReWire is NOT the future.


Edited by nonchai (10/18/19 05:27 AM)
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BIAB 2019,
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PG Music News
Notation Enhancements in Band-in-a-Box® 2019

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows was released in December 2018, and included many new features and enhancements - like the enhancements we made to our Notation window!

These include:
-Pressing the space bar plays the song from the current location.
-Double-clicking on the Standard mode Notation window (or on the time line in Editable or Staff Roll mode) plays the song from the current time location.
-The right-click menu in the Editable or Staff Roll mode Notation window has an option to change the current beat resolution. Previously, the only way to do this was to right-click on the time line.
-Clicking close to a stave line will put a note on the stave line instead of between stave lines. Previously, you had to click extremely close to a stave line to insert a note on it.
-In the Notation Windows Options dialog, the clefs split point asterisk indicates that C5* is middle C.
-The clefs split point can be set by the spin controls.
-You can quickly enter forced accidentals from the right-click menu.
-A new track type (Drums) is available for the Melody and Soloist tracks.
-Holding down the Ctrl key and pressing the zoom in/out buttons results in finest possible incremental adjustment in size.
-There's a keystroke entry mode -the "N" mode, which lets you enter a melody entirely using keystrokes. The keystrokes are N to enter a note, up/down cursor to change its pitch, and left/right cursor to move the time line.
-A new button in the Print Options dialog lets you quickly print a "chords only" fake sheet. You can also access this from the right-click menu on the Chord Sheet.
-You can now edit any track in the Event List Editor. When the dialog opens, it will show you the MIDI data in the current notation track.


There's detailed information on our 2019 notation enhancements here: Band-in-a-Box® 2019 New Feature - Notation Enhancements

Jump to the Notation topic in our Band-in-a-Box® 2019 new features video.

Band-in-a-Box® Drum Features!

Today is National Drummer Day!
(not to be confused with National Hug a Drummer Day, which is October 10th)

Band-in-a-Box® is a great resource for drummers! Practice with an on-demand back-up band, learn from the Pro's with RealDrums notation (RealCharts, new with version 2019), MIDI drums notation, or play in the Drum Kit Window!

Not a drummer? Add drums to your Band-in-a-Box® project with RealDrums! Whether you're looking for Bluegrass, Blues, Bossa, Country, Dance, Dixieland, Folk, Funk, HipHop, Jazz, Latin, Metal, Pop, RnB, Rock, Soul, Techno, Traditional, Waltz, or World (and variations within) - you'll definitely find what you're looking for in our RealDrums library - there are over 500 available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac Build 315 Update Available!

Attention Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac users - a new FREE patch update (build 315) is available!
Review details and download here

Summary of changes for build 315 (Nov 15, 2019):

Fixed: Exporting MusicXML files was not working.
Fixed: When using "Auto-Hand split Piano track" feature, exported MIDI files contain wrong note durations on the Piano track.
Fixed: Note-based lyrics were not included when exporting MIDI files.
Fixed: User should be prompted to save their song when exiting, if they had added or removed plugins.
Fixed: The Record Audio dialog always says “Track type is Stereo” even if the track type is mono.
Fixed: The [Audio Options…] button in the Record Audio dialog was launching the Audio Devices dialog instead of the Audio Settings dialog.
Fixed: Loops dialog title bar displays wrong track name.
Fixed: Large patch map files are not completely loaded (were limited to 1985 patches).
Fixed: Notation context menu > Edit Section Text… did not do anything.
Fixed: Notation context menu > Insert Section Text… did not do anything.

My Favorite Things - Nudge Chords in Band-in-a-Box®

Love this time saving feature.

Ever fill in the chordsheet fully or for part of song, and then discover you want to add or take away an extra beat or more somewhere in the chordsheet.

Nudge chords (melody) from the Edit Menu is your friend here, the dialog will give you all the options either to remove or add beats where its needed.

Love it.
-musiclover

To learn more about this feature, read the "Advanced Chord Entry and Editing Features" topic when you click here.

Band-in-a-Box® Video Testimonial & Demo - Rodney Gene Junior

Band-in-a-Box® endorsing artist Rodney Gene Junior has shared his latest User Testimonial and Demo with us, and we LOVE it! Not only does Rodney share with the viewer his enthusiasm for our program, he also shares a few examples of how he uses Band-in-a-Box® too - make sure you check it out!

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Testimonial Video - Peter Torpey

Check out our latest Band-in-a-Box video testimonial, which takes using the program to a whole new level! Peter Torpey is a long time program user who has developed a way to work with the program, even though he's visually impaired - and he wants to make sure that others can too!
Click here to watch!

Learn more about Peter here.

View all our video testimonials here.

Want to make your own Testimonial? We'd love to see it! There's information on our Video Testimonials offer here.

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac Upgrade & Full Manuals Available!
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