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#545607 - 07/15/19 03:48 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: muzikluver]
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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<<< The 2, sus, and add chords are the only ones I've encountered any problems with that have forced me to manually make changes to the chords in the chord sheet.>>>

For multiple chord errors and if BIAB recognizes both the correct and incorrect chords, you can search and replace multiple chord errors in the following manner:



Edit\Chords (w)\search/replace chords...

and specify the changes in the window that opens.


Attachments
Chords replace.JPG


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#545698 - 07/16/19 01:22 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: Charlie Fogle]
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muzikluver Offline
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Thanks for the tip, Charlie. I didn't know that capability was available. I've already used it several times today and really like the fact that it retains the previously entered chord change info so that I don't have to enter it again.
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#545710 - 07/16/19 04:18 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: muzikluver]
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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Glad that helped you out a bit. I've found it's a useful utility in cleaning up songs analyzed by the Audio Chord Wizard. The ACW seems to read a chord erroneously over and over in an analysis and this utility makes short work in correcting to the right chord.
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#545726 - 07/16/19 11:49 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: Charlie Fogle]
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DeaconBlues09 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
Glad that helped you out a bit. I've found it's a useful utility in cleaning up songs analyzed by the Audio Chord Wizard. The ACW seems to read a chord erroneously over and over in an analysis and this utility makes short work in correcting to the right chord.


Can confirm...

It drove me nuts how again and again it interpreted every instance of Fmaj7 I used in a given song as F/A.

I experimented with multiple voicings at various points on my fretboard after making sure my guitar was 100 percent in tune, (something I'm incredibly particular about anyway), and I could not get it to display a Maj7.

FWIW, I now recall this was before the revamped ACW so I don't know if that may have improved...(although as an aside, there were certain elements to the old one I preferred so I'm happy that it's still possible to use either).
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#545728 - 07/17/19 01:10 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: DeaconBlues09]
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Pipeline Offline
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In RapidComposer I can set the notes and aliases names for each chord.
I can add a So What chord Csowhat


Attachments
RC-Aliases.gif


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#548793 - 08/09/19 09:43 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: Pipeline]
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muzikluver Offline
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Originally Posted By: Pipeline
In RapidComposer I can set the notes and aliases names for each chord.
I can add a So What chord Csowhat


Pipeline, how does this relate to the problems I've discovered with BiaB's incorrect interpretation of certain chords during its importation of XML files? I'm familiar with RapidComposer, but it's an entirely different program that I don't have and don't plan to obtain any time soon.
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#548794 - 08/09/19 09:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: jazzmammal]
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muzikluver Offline
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Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
I have never used xml, how exactly does that work in Biab? Have you already created a new song including the style then import the xml file or does the importing itself create a new song project and then you select the style? The reason for this question is my point earlier that styles many times determine how the chords are handled. Also, in my earlier reply I touched on the differences between the chords in a midi style vs an RT or hybrid style. Musickluver, are you talking midi styles or RT styles here?

Fundamentally if you want exact chord voicings then you need to write midi notation for that, it won't do anything for RT's because you get whatever voicing that was recorded in the studio so that's midi only. When you talk about your Add 2 chord, for every note in it you can have a different inversion (voicing) and if you add a slash bass note then you could have 5 or 6 appropriate voicings.

When you get into the weeds of specific chord names and voicings you really need to understand the theory behind that. Basically you think outside the box, think about what am I trying to do harmonically and find a way to get Biab to do it because as I said earlier as an AI music software, it tends to want to do things it's way. This is the whole rationale behind the program and it's name Band-in-a-Box. You get to have a virtual band of great musicians, give them the song structure and "basic chords" and they can come up with several different versions of your song for you. It's not designed to perfectly execute what you tell it to do.


Bob, I know that I had previously replied to your post, but I just wanted to also say that most of what you said here went completely over my head at the time because I didn't understand what you meant by "voicings" until some time after I had replied without really knowing where you were coming from. (DUH!) If I had looked up the word "voicings" or asked you to explain this term, my reply would have been very different from what it was.
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#548795 - 08/09/19 10:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: Jim Fogle]
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muzikluver Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
Originally Posted By: muzikluver
snip ... So, it appears that there are several bugs in the chord mapping portion of BiaB's XML file import algorithm that need to be fixed.


muzikluver,

It's great to read your observations. I believe you can tell many forum members are enjoying participating in this thread.

May I suggest you contact PG Music Support about the XML file import algorithm errors? If you attach your XML file along with a bar and beat description of the chords that are misinterpreted then they will have the content needed to correct the issue.


Jim, I finally got around to writing an email to Tech Support about this issue. The reason it took me so long is that I was in the middle of writing a new song (actually two new songs) when I discovered these problems, so I didn't want to lose my songwriting momentum by taking the time to create all the test files I would need to send to Tech Support with an explanation of these problems in an email. Below is the text of my email along with two links. One link is to this thread, and the other link is to a ZIP file of all the files I created for my tests:

"Dear Technical Support,

I recently discovered some problems with BiaB's importing of chords in XML files that affects the "2," "sus2," "sus4," and "add2" chords. There are two aspects to these problems. One aspect pertains to BiaB's interpretation (via substitution or mapping) of these chords when they are imported, and the other aspect pertains to the settings in the Display Options settings for the "2" and "sus2" chords. Because it would be difficult for me to explain all the different scenarios that have occurred during my importation of XML files with these chords into BiaB, I am providing you with a link to a ZIP file that contains all the files that I've used to perform and document my tests. The information in these files should be self-explanatory. All three of the XML files and all three of the PDF files were created from MuseScore 2.1. The PDF files will show you the lead sheets as they were created in MuseScore and exported to XML. The six BiaB MGX files correspond respectively in pairs to each of the XML files with a "b" version and a non "b" version. The "b" versions were created importing the same XML file as the non "b" version but only after changing the Display Options settings to that the "2" and the "sus2" chords will display as "sus" and "sus4" chords respectively and then saved with these settings. The RTF file contains a list of all the A chord variants that are in each XML file and what those chords ended up being in BiaB after they were imported. The notes at the bottom of the RTF file further explain the test results and the different scenarios under which those results occurred. Prior to importing these XML files, I made sure that I had selected a style that was compatible with the song settings in my lead sheet, which was the _CMPFMDS.STY with a time signature of 4/4 and an even 8 feel. If you have any questions about these files or the results of my tests, please let me know and I'll do my best to answer them. Below is a link to the ZIP file that I uploaded to my Box account and a link to the BiaB Forum thread that I started on 7/13/19 to discuss and identify the specific nature of these problems. Thanks for your help!

https://app.box.com/s/qcusj5d81fmx8s5ym3y6x90fuwnvr2nu

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=545344#Post545344

Tom"
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#548799 - 08/09/19 10:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: muzikluver]
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Pipeline Offline
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Originally Posted By: muzikluver
..Pipeline, how does this relate to the problems I've discovered with BiaB's incorrect interpretation of certain chords during its importation of XML files..


It has more user control that would be good in Biab so if you import/type a chord in the Biab you get it to recognize that chord as xxxx.

Reaper's not like George who knows all the chords.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=209607
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#548800 - 08/09/19 10:57 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: Pipeline]
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muzikluver Offline
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So, Reaper has a similar problem as BiaB has?
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#548811 - 08/10/19 04:39 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: muzikluver]
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Pipeline Offline
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Biab reads the chord names in the musicxml but changes to it's equivalent, where as Reaper can't read the more complex chords in the musicxml yet.
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#548838 - 08/10/19 09:23 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: muzikluver]
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Matt Finley Offline
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I’m very interested to read PG Music’s reply about this.
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#548856 - 08/10/19 11:22 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: Pipeline]
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jazzmammal Offline
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Originally Posted By: Pipeline
Biab reads the chord names in the musicxml but changes to it's equivalent, where as Reaper can't read the more complex chords in the musicxml yet.


When you say Biab changes it to it's equivalent that is similar to what I've discovered about the Stylemaker. That other thread in the Wishlist forum about all the problems with complex chords and bass lines exposed this. I just watched the only video I could find on Youtube about the Stylemaker and it's from 1997. It's exactly the same as we just talked about last week in the other thread, nothing's changed that I can see.

In the vid the guy made one telling comment almost as a quick aside. He said even though you can specify a chord type in the Stylemaker for a given instrument and give it weighting and all that stuff, Biab can and will change it depending on what Biab thinks it should be. This is the "secret sauce" we've all talked about for years. The Stylemaker does control a lot of things but still, Biab is the boss and can decide to do it's own thing.

This goes back to what I've been saying for years and I'm not defending it, it's just the way it is. Biab is not designed to take input from a user and give it back as that exact chord arrangement. It will take what you give it and "intelligently" interpret it for you similar to what a group of real musicians would do. That's how it's advertised and that's what it does.

How far the developers can go in modifying that or are willing to is completely unknown to us users and they never talk about it to us either.

Bob
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#548860 - 08/10/19 11:59 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: muzikluver]
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LtKojak Offline
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Next version of BIAB AI: menu:

* play what I've asked you to play
* play what you think you should play
* play what you think I should've asked you to play

Any takers...?


Edited by LtKojak (08/10/19 12:02 PM)
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#548865 - 08/10/19 12:39 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: LtKojak]
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muzikluver Offline
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Originally Posted By: LtKojak
Next version of BIAB AI: menu:

* play what I've asked you to play
* play what you think you should play
* play what you think I should've asked you to play

Any takers...?

That's awesome! Love it!!
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#548866 - 08/10/19 12:44 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: jazzmammal]
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muzikluver Offline
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Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Originally Posted By: Pipeline
Biab reads the chord names in the musicxml but changes to it's equivalent, where as Reaper can't read the more complex chords in the musicxml yet.


When you say Biab changes it to it's equivalent that is similar to what I've discovered about the Stylemaker. That other thread in the Wishlist forum about all the problems with complex chords and bass lines exposed this. I just watched the only video I could find on Youtube about the Stylemaker and it's from 1997. It's exactly the same as we just talked about last week in the other thread, nothing's changed that I can see.

In the vid the guy made one telling comment almost as a quick aside. He said even though you can specify a chord type in the Stylemaker for a given instrument and give it weighting and all that stuff, Biab can and will change it depending on what Biab thinks it should be. This is the "secret sauce" we've all talked about for years. The Stylemaker does control a lot of things but still, Biab is the boss and can decide to do it's own thing.

This goes back to what I've been saying for years and I'm not defending it, it's just the way it is. Biab is not designed to take input from a user and give it back as that exact chord arrangement. It will take what you give it and "intelligently" interpret it for you similar to what a group of real musicians would do. That's how it's advertised and that's what it does.

How far the developers can go in modifying that or are willing to is completely unknown to us users and they never talk about it to us either.

Bob

I think he's referring to what BiaB does when it creates the chord sheet, not what it does to those chords after than when it generates the tracks for each instrument, which is what you're referring to. I had one electric guitar (that I had added to a standard style) that kept playing something other than a C chord at different places in the song. Each time i regenerated the track for this instrument, that chord would move to a different place in the song and was clashing with the rest of the instruments every time. It took at least 10 re-generations of that track before I finally got BiaB to do what I wanted it to do.
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#548939 - 08/11/19 01:37 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: muzikluver]
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jazzmammal Offline
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Yes, I understand that but I'm looking a bit deeper. The question is why is someone using XML to import the chords into Biab? There's only two reasons.

One is so they can have good notation in Biab. Why would they need that, they already have good notation in Musescore. If they're using another music program that does not give them good notation and they want Biab for that and that's all they want, fine. Biab can provide good notation even if the written chords play differently. But, pretty much everybody also wants:

Two, the song to also play correctly. That means populating the chord grid to generate the song and have Biab play those exact chords in those exact places. That in turn leads to what I just wrote. Biab may or may not do that by design.

Bob
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#548941 - 08/11/19 02:10 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: muzikluver]
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Matt Finley Offline
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Bob, I would like this to work.

I don't play piano or guitar. Let's say I have a leadsheet, and I want to enter the song into BIAB so I can hear how it goes (yes, I can hear it in my head, but that's not the same). I could enter it into BIAB by hand, or try to find a more efficient way using import of Music XML.

To get the leadsheet into XML, there are several possibilities. One is, I'm using a notation program and I export it as Music XML format if supported. Another is that I have a PDF or printed sheet music, and I use a program to scan that and export it into Music XML.

If it's just a chord progression, many here have requested that BIAB allow importing of an ASCII text file or some similar format, maybe a spreadsheet, of just chords. Something like you might be able to find on many guitar chord sites.

This and related threads talk about how BIAB may interpret a chord in Music XML and change it in BIAB. I definitely want to know more about that.

-------------------

As an aside, having studied the code, my issue with Music XML is that it is a great idea with sometimes poor implementation. It's very verbose, and it's like working with a compiled language where the compiler tells you nothing about whatever the syntax error may be. You mentioned Musescore, and so far, that is the best software I've found to give me at least a clue of what (or where) the error is, rather than simply aborting the import.
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#548976 - 08/11/19 06:10 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: jazzmammal]
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muzikluver Offline
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Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Yes, I understand that but I'm looking a bit deeper. The question is why is someone using XML to import the chords into Biab? There's only two reasons.

One is so they can have good notation in Biab. Why would they need that, they already have good notation in Musescore. If they're using another music program that does not give them good notation and they want Biab for that and that's all they want, fine. Biab can provide good notation even if the written chords play differently. But, pretty much everybody also wants:

Two, the song to also play correctly. That means populating the chord grid to generate the song and have Biab play those exact chords in those exact places. That in turn leads to what I just wrote. Biab may or may not do that by design.

Bob, neither one of your answers is a complete answer that describes my situation. I use XML to import both the chords and the melody into BiaB from a lead sheet that I created in MuseScore, which is the means by which I create a tangible representation of my songs that are in my head. For me, it isn't just about the chords because chords by themselves don't comprise a song. For me, it's primarily about the melody. However, a melody by itself is not sufficient for BiaB to generate an arrangement from because BiaB's arrangements are mostly chord based. I say "mostly" because BiaB has also used my imported melodies to create melodic motifs in the arrangement that are not on my lead sheet. My lead sheet only has the melody that goes with the lyrics---one note per syllable. This is why BiaB has been so beneficial to me in my songwriting endeavors. By importing both the melody and chords into BiaB from an XML file that was created from my lead sheet within MuseScore enables BiaB to create a very intelligent and sensible arrangement of my songs that rivals that of a professional studio---especially when I use the Bar settings function to turn various instruments on and off along with the part markers to switch the drum track from the "a" version to the "b" version and back again. So, whenever BiaB decides to "do it's own thing" with my chord progression per your explanation in a previous post, I usually have to regenerate one or more instruments that end up playing a chord or two that clash with my melody and sometimes with the other instruments as well. This happened to me on my most recent song because an electric guitar that I added to the standard style kept playing a chord other than a C chord in various places in my song. But I was able to get BiaB to make that guitar get the C chord right after about ten re-generations of that one instrument.
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#548981 - 08/11/19 07:59 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB [Re: muzikluver]
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jazzmammal Offline
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Ok, that's exactly what my #2 is and the good news is it's working pretty well for you. Sure, sometimes you have to do a bunch of regen's to get it to give you what you want and that's normal too. I think you already know you can save yourself those manual regen's by putting the song in Real Band and using the multiriff function or use the Biab plugin multiriffs in a DAW.

Bob
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"Find-a-Sub" RealTracks Feature - Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows

Freshen up your arrangements using the "Find-a-Sub" RealTracks feature added with Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows! This feature will help you find replacement RealTracks to use that are the most similar in sound, feel, tempo, and time signature for your song, sorted from best-to-worst!

Watch the explanation of this new feature when you jump to the subject in our Band-in-a-Box® 2020 New Features Video - click here to watch.

Or, read a detailed explanation of this new feature here.

Find the Perfect Style for Your Song with the Song Titles Browser Feature! #TipTuesday

Use the Song Titles Browser within the StylePicker if you're wanting to create a song in the feel of your favorite tune!

Give it a try - there are OVER 10,000 titles available to search with this feature!

If you've searched for a song, and no Style is suggested, click on the [Add...] button, you'll be able to post a request to add that title here!

Learn more about this feature within the "Style suggestion" topic here.

Share your Latest Band-in-a-Box® Song! #MusicMonday

Let's hear your latest Band-in-a-Box® song! Don't be shy - post it as a reply, or head to our User Showcase Forum to share it there!

New to Band-in-a-Box® and unsure of how to get started? We have a few resources to help you out!

Forums - packed with helpful program users!
Online Manual - specifically "Chapter 2: QuickStart" (Mac users, click here.)
Support Videos - sorted for easy searching! All of these are also shared on our YouTube Channel.

Of course, you can always reach out to our team directly too! www.pgmusic.com/contact.htm

The Band-in-a-Box® 2010 "Plug-in" Mode! #TBT

Did you know... the "Plug-in" mode was first launched with the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2010 for Windows!

With the 2010 "Plug-in" mode, Band-in-a-Box® opened as a small always-on-top window, and acted as a plug-in for your favorite DAW/sequencer, so that you could Drag-and-drop MIDI and audio (WAV) tracks from Band-in-a-Box to your favorite sequencer. You could work in your favorite sequencer, type a progression in Band-in-a-Box, and then simply drag the track from Band-in-a-Box to your sequencer’s track at the desired track and bar location.

To learn more about the new features that were launched with Band-in-a-Box® 2010 for Windows, check out Band-in-a-Box® 2010 "Plug-in" mode feature highlighted in our Band-in-a-Box® 2010 New Features Video at 10:50!

The "Plug-in" mode development didn't stop there - With Band-in-a-Box® 2019 we introduced the "Band-in-a-Box® VST DAW Plugin" which now works DIRECTLY INSIDE YOUR DAW (Cakewalk, Reaper, Pro Tools, PreSonus, etc.). Learn more about this feature here.

Video - Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac - No Sound with MIDI?

Have you ever experienced a No Sound issue when you're working with MIDI in Band-in-a-Box® for Mac?

We have an online tutorial that can walk you through some troubleshooting to resolve this, but why not check out our newest YouTube video instead?

Click here to watch...

Of course, you can always reach out to us directly if you're in need of assistance with the program!

The Band-in-a-Box® 2020 Feature Browser! #TipTuesday

Don't underestimate the power of the Feature Browser added with Band-in-a-Box® 2020! This is a GREAT resource when you "know that you knew a feature" but just can't quite remember how to find it!

Simply click on the [?] at the top of the program (near the Mixer on the right) to launch this feature. From there, simply type in your query, or choose from the long list that appears in the Feature Browser window. If you're typing it in, you'll see that list change to only show the results that could fit your search - once you find what you're looking for, you can read more about it when you choose [Manual], if there's a video for the feature you can choose [Video] to view it, OR - if you don't need to read about the feature and just want to USE it, choose [Do it] and you're all set!

Watch this new feature in action when you jump to the subject in our New Features video:

10:19 - New Feature - Feature Browser

Give the Gift of Music with Band-in-a-Box®!

Did you wait too long to purchase flowers, a card, or book a restaurant for Valentine's Day? Or, maybe material gifts just aren't your thing?

Why not whip together a song in Band-in-a-Box? It's as easy as typing in some chords, choosing a style, and pressing play!

Or, take it a step further with the help of the Audio Chord Wizard and our StylePicker Song Titles Browser feature!
How???
-Use the Audio Chord Wizard to analyze their favorite song and provide you with the chord progression
-Take that chord progression and start a new project in Band-in-a-Box (choose "Erase the Audio WAV file in BB" | Enable style)
-Head to the StylePicker window, search for a style for that song using the "Song Titles Browser" Feature (top right)
-Choose from the list provided
-Press Play!

Like what you hear? Save it, and viola!

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