PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Available chords and automatic chord name substitution in BiaB

I'd like to know a bit more about the chords that can be used in BiaB. After I finished writing a new song with the melody and all the chords entered into MuseScore yesterday, I exported an XML file of that song, which I then opened in BiaB. But when I watched BiaB play through the arrangement that I had subsequently created, I noticed that a couple of chord names had changed. This isn't the first time I've seen this happen, but it is the first time I decided to investigate this issue further to obtain a better understanding of what BiaB was doing with my chords and why, etc.

The two chords that changed are as follows: A2 changed to Asus2, and Cadd9 changed to Cadd2. Now, I know that Asus2 is not the same as A2, so I changed it in BiaB, and BiaB accepted my change. I also know that Cadd9 is sort of the same as Cadd2 but not exactly the same. So, I tried to change this chord as well, but BiaB prevented me from doing this. (I had previously encountered the same issue in another song when I tried to change an Emadd2 chord to an Emadd9 chord.) As I thought about this, I realized that the C2 and Csus2 chords are also very similar to (if not the same) as the Cadd9 chord. This compelled me to do a search on Google to find out the technical details on these chords so that I could determine whether or not I should accept BiaB's chord substitution. As a result, I found the following article, which does a very good job of covering all the bases on these chords:

https://passingchords.com/c2-csus2-cadd2-c9-cadd9

I also found the following page on PG Music's Support page (under Tutorials) that lists all the chords that BiaB, RB, and PowerTracks recognizes:

https://www.pgmusic.com/tutorial_chordlist.htm

When I read through all the chords on this page, I noticed that the Csus2, Cadd2, and the Cadd9 chords weren't listed but C2 is. According to the chords article, the C2 chord has the same notes as the Cadd2 and the Cadd9 chords have, but the C2 chord is identical only to the Cadd9 chord because the notes in the Cadd2 and the Cadd9 are in a different sequence. I also discovered from the chords article that Csus2 isn't the same as C2, Cadd2 or Cadd9. This makes sense because the A2 chord isn't the same as the Asus2 chord. However, because I have used an Asus2 chord before in BiaB, and because BiaB automatically substitutes an Asus2 chord for an A2 chord (as I mentioned above), I would think that a Csus2 chord would be available for use as well.

Does anyone have any thoughts on all of this?

All I can say is Biab does not recognize all possible chord variations and if you're using Real Tracks then you're dealing with what was actually recorded in the studio. If you find a RT that is not playing the proper chord notify support about it, they have issued patches for this before. With midi it's usually not a problem. If that chart says Biab recognizes that chord then with midi it should play it. BUT...

This is controlled by the style and using or not using that checkbox to "jazz up or jazz down" the chords. You also have the "intelligent arrangement" feature to play with too. Biab is designed as an intelligent song creator so sometimes it simply decides your chord doesn't fit so it does it it's way. It's not a dumb "play it exactly how you input it" kind of thing. Sort of like a real band with real players would do. You get a good player on whatever instrument and they may decide on their own to make a few chord subs.

Also regenerating can give you different variations on the chords so listen carefully, if you suddenly hear what you want freeze the tracks and don't regen again or you'll lose it.

Bob

This may help you understand the BIAB choice of chord names.

In the file, X/BB/Data/pgshortc.txt you will find this text:

; Note these are already defined in BB, and you can't over-ride these shortcuts
;sus2@2 add2@2 m+@m#5 dim7@dim 7aug@7+ sus4@sus 11@9sus 9sus4@9sus
;13sus4@13sus add9@2 7sus4@7sus s@7sus h@m7b5 d@dim J@MAJ7
; f@7b9 m7+@m7#5 NC@C. no chord l@7Alt u@(Blues) 7u@7(Blues)
; Lyd@lydian Lyd@lyd Lyd@4#

This makes it clear that BIAB considers sus2 to be 2, add2 to be 2, and add9 to be 2.

Bob is correct that they will generate differently but BIAB treats all three as a 2 chord.

Well, I do remember this happening once a few months ago. I may still have the file, but I'd have to search for it to be sure. I was playing a demo for my producer, and he noticed that a D7 chord was played instead of a D chord. It's probably not worth my time to track this down, but I'll keep it in mind for the future.

I'm surprised to know this because every time I've changed an Asus2 chord to an A2 chord and regenerated, the A2 chord sounded correct while the Asus2 chord that was there previously was noticeably clashing with the B note that was in the melody (the A2 didn't clash). I guess I'll have to do some more experimenting.

Also, in the last couple of versions of BIAB a feature called "Natural Arrangements" was introduced.

This is a chord substitution option that aims to create a smoother arrangement. With this option, though, it's not clear what chords are substituted since the chordsheet does not change.

I leave this option off as I prefer all my chords to play as I entered them. The option is found under "Options | Preferences | Arrange" or under "Song Settings".

When the Natural Arrangement option is deactivated, there will usually be a message on the screens lower right that says something like "x% of complex chords are present..." -- I just ignore this.

Regards,
Noel

• my latest re-mix using multiband compression : Just A Little After Midnight

I don't know if you write it from scratch in MuseScore but you can put the chords in Biab then open that SGU with MuseScore to add the melody, as this will give all compatible chords.
Also the Chord Picker Tool below has all the available BB chords.

Matt, I'm replying to this again because it just occurred to me that BiaB's substitution of my A2 chord with an Asus2 chord is inconsistent with what you said in your post. IOW, if BiaB considers a sus2 chord to be a 2 chord, why is it changing my 2 chord to a sus2 chord when it imports my XML file?

I see that message pop up briefly whenever I open a new XML file. My arrangement settings are enabled to do this only for Jazz styles, which I don't use.

Whether BIAB shows the chord as A2 or Asus2 depends on the selection of choices in Display Options. I've highlighted these on the graphic below.

At the end of the day, though, whatever is displayed (i.e. Asus2 Aadd2), the chord is an A2 -- as shown in the list of substitutions that Matt posted.

Regards,
Noel

Yes, I do write my songs from scratch in MuseScore, so the chords are already in the XML file that I open in BiaB.
I looked at the screen shots of your Chord Picker Tool and noticed that there is no sus2 chord listed. I also noticed that a 2 chord and a 4 chord are listed on the Maj chord set. If a 2 chord is the same as a sus2 chord, wouldn't a 4 chord be the same as a sus4 chord? If so, wouldn't the sus chord on the Suspended 4 chord set be the same as the 4 chord on the Maj chord set?

I tried to bring that graphic up in BiaB but couldn't figure out how. Can you tell me what to click on?

Also, I've done some more research on the A2 vs. Asus2 chords and discovered that the statement I made in my OP about the A2 and the Asus2 chords being different was somewhat misleading because it's technically incorrect, depending on which naming convention is being used. See the discussion of the A2 chord at the following website for more info:

https://ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?10138-What-is-an-A2-Chord

The deeper I dig into this, the more confusing it becomes because there isn't a standard chord naming convention for guitars, as mentioned in the following quote from someone named "Poparad" towards the end of the above discussion:

"I think a lot of this 'sus' confusion stems from that fact that a lot of people forget where the 'suspension' even came from or why it's called that.

The word 'suspension' means to hold up, to retain temporarily. The 'sus4' chord developed out of the practice of holding notes over in the change of a IV chord to a V chord. In the key of C, a IV V progression is F major to G major. When the chord changes, the note 'C' from the F major chord was 'suspended' temporarily, and then resolved down to a 'B' on the G major chord, creating a delayed resolution of the G chord. The first common method of notating harmony was figured bass, which merely indicated the intervals to be played above the given bass note. In the case of a suspension, the abbreviation 'sus' was added after the roman numeral of the bass note, followed by the interval above which the suspended note was to be. There were actually other kinds of suspensions other than the 4; there were suspended 6ths and suspended 2nds, both resolving downward to the 5th or the root, respectively.

When music began to be labelled in a chord-oriented format, the 'sus4' label was retained to designate this practice. Eventually, over time people began to use the 'sus4' chord as a seperate entity, and not necessarily resolving it.

But what if on that IV V progression an A was held and then resolved up to a B? In this case, it has traditionally been labelled as a retardation, but the label 'ret2' or something to that effect never came about. "Sus2" is result of borrowing an already existing label to name something similar, even though technically a sus2 isn't a suspension. What is commonly today referred to as a 'sus2' chord would have to omit the Root of the chord, as that is the note a 'sus2' resolves downward to. Since these chords include the root but not the third, they are actually retardations, but again, through common practice, they are no longer required to be resolved.

As a result a sort of dichotomy evolved in the music world. Amongst guitar players in the rock/pop music realm, 'sus2' became the standard for notating a chord composed of Root, 2nd, and 5th. In the realm of music involving non-guitarists, such as jazz, the label "C2" became accepted for the same chord.

There really is no point in disputing the authenticity or widespread use of either term, as they are firmly implanted into the vocabulary of both realms of music and pedagogy. So in the end, we should probably just accept both labels as acceptable terms for the same chord, much in the same way that the notes "C Eb Gb Bb" can be called either "Cm7b5" or "CØ7" with equal legitimacy."

Then there's the next post, which introduces another twist:

"Some sites are using A2 to refer to Aadd9
Poparad,

Your explanation is wonderful. It appears there is still some confusion out there on this naming convention. At this site, http://www.hobby-hour.com/guitar/chords.php?chord=asus2 they are showing the fingering for the chord I see on lead sheets as A2, but they spell it out as Asus2. The different chord they call an A2 chord is actually an Aadd9 and as a rock/pop guitarist I almost never play that chord. The chord I play is fingered like an A major chord, but with an open B string. That would be an Asus2, normally written as A2 due to the reasons you noted above, except on this site (which ranked at the top of my Google search for "A2 chord") where they call an Aadd9 A2. So confusing."

So, besides my confusion over the chord names being used in BiaB (A2 vs. Asus2), what I really need to know is what BiaB means by an A2 chord and by an Asus2 chord. From my experience, when BiaB substitutes Asus2 for an A2 chord in my XML file, the sound of that chord is not correct because it clashes with the B note in my melody. But when I change it to an A2 chord in the chord sheet and regenerate, a different chord is played that sounds correct because it doesn't clash with the B note. IOW, if these two chords are allegedly the same, why do they sound different from each other in BiaB?

As mentioned you can get the C2 to display as Csus2 and Csus as Csus4.
This is the chord output from RapidComposer and Biab.

The easiest way to get to Display options is to right-click on the chordsheet and select "Display Options".


Thanks for the theory lesson. The explanations you've posted are excellent.

My harmony training is classical and I've always thought of the suspension of a chord as resolving downwards by step.

BIAB definitely plays X2 chords. With different generations, though, it's highly likely that the 2nd could appear in different octaves. It's also possible that some chords that have been mapped as X2 are either sus2 or add2. This will depend on what the composer played and how PG Music interpreted the results. BIAB does not distinguish between the two though.

In case it's useful information for you, a sus2 chord is a first inversion of a sus4 chord. (This makes one wonder if sus2 is really a variant of sus4!)

For example. Csus4 = C-F-G

In first inversion, this is F-G-C = Fsus2

In other words, to get a sus2, notate the suspended 4th chord a perfect fourth below the root of the chord needed and play it over the root of the chord needed.

That is, to get Csus2... the perfect fourth below = G thus use a Gsus4 chord over a C bass -- i.e. Gsus4/C = G-C-D over a C bass = sames notes as Csus2.

Regards,
Noel

P.S. Pipeline's use of BIAB Piano Roll mode to show what the suspension is a great idea!

Hi all

I always think of sus chords as altered thirds, in fact I believe they are not considered to be either Major or minor, just chords where the third has been substituted for a 2nd or 4th in the case of sus2 and sus4.
As far as add 9 goes it is like a sus 2 but the third is in the next octave one octave higher than the sus 2.

Just my simple understanding.
Mike

This is brilliant.

I was taught that a sus chord can, and usually wants to, resolve. In a sus4, the 4 resolves to a major third. But what is a sus2, really? Where does it resolve to? Although you could move to another chord, it is perfectly stable by itself.

I was taught that in a sus chord the sus replaces a note, usually the third, i.e. C-D-G or C-F-G.

An add chord a note is added to the chord, i.e. C-D-E-G or C-E-G-D, C-E-F-G or C-E-G-F. Note that the first chord in each example can be called a cluster chord.

This is my understanding, too. It's also how it was explained in the article at the first link I shared in my OP. Here's a quote of the "Sus" section from that article:

"The sus in a chord name standards for “suspended”. This chord type creates extra tension by exchanging the 3rd (for a major chord) or a minor 3rd (for a minor chord) for another note.

Some will debate whether the suspended 4th is the only option for a sus chord. They will argue that a sus2 cannot be used. But, given that sus2 is commonly used by guitarists we will ignore the debate entirely and assume sus2 does exist.

For a sus2 chord, we would replace the 3 of the scale for the 2 of the scale. So Csus2 is just a C major chord with the 2 (D) replacing the major third (E).

Csus2 = C, D, G"

Following this logic, a Csus4 would have the notes C, F, G. In the case of the A chord, an Asus2 would have the notes A, B, E, and an Asus4 would have the notes A, D, E. While both the 3rd note in the C chord can easily be substituted with the 2nd note (for Csus2) or the 4th note (for Csus4) on the guitar when using the standard open chord version of C, this isn't possible to do with the standard open A chord version because the of where the notes occur on the strings. As a result, the notes in the Asus2 chord end up being A, E, A, B, E, and the notes in the Asus4 end up being A, E, A, D, E. I'm sure that similar scenarios would occur with other chords for the same reason.

But getting back to the original issue of BiaB's substutition of an Asus2 chord for the A2 chords in my song. This morning I decided to create a test file in BiaB in which I would alternate between the A2 and the Asus2 chord so that I could listen for any changes that might occur when these chords were played back after I had generated the arrangement. But every time I tried to enter an Asus2 chord, BiaB automatically changed it to an A2 chord. This baffled me because of my remembrance that BiaB had changed the A2 chords in my song to an Asus2 chord. So, I re-opened my XML file so that I could make sure that this is indeed what had happened. To my utter surprise, I discovered that BiaB didn't change my A2 chords to Asus2 chords but instead had changed them to Aadd2 chords. I must have been half asleep the first time I had gone through this process because I was sure that I saw Asus2 chords on my screen, but I know now that I was mistaken. (Sorry, guys, for giving all of you the wrong information!) Nevertheless, considering Matt's earlier post in which he said that BiaB also recognizes an Add2 chord as an A2 chord, I'm still dealing with an issue of improper chord substitution on BiaB's part except that I was reading an Aadd2 chord as an Asus2 chord.

The reason I say "improper chord substitution on BiaB's part" is because of what I heard when I re-created my test file in which I alternated between an A2 chord and an Add2 chord (not an Asus2 chord). This time, BiaB did not prevent me from entering the Aadd2 chord like it did when I had tried to enter the Asus2 chord. And when I played this test song (after I had generated the arrangement), I could definitely hear that the Aadd2 chord sounded very different from the A2 chord. What I can't figure out, though, is what the notes are in this chord and what this chord would look like on the guitar.

From a note standpoint (based on the info in the first article I shared above), an Add2 chord would consist of the notes A, C#, E, and B, but it isn't possible to create a standard open chord version of a chord with these notes on the guitar. So, perhaps someone could help me out with this because this Add2 chord sounds strange. I tried to attach a screen shot of the test song that I created in BiaB but wasn't able to for some reason, so you'll have to create your own test file. I'll also mention that the track I listened to had a 12 string acoustic strumming guitar (#856), but I would think that any strumming guitar could be used.

I think I figured out what the Aadd2 chord is on the guitar that BiaB uses. Instead of having an A note on the G string, it has a B note. So, the notes would be from the second string onward are A, E, B, C#, and E. This is definitely an Aadd2 chord and isn't an easy one for me to play. But what doesn't make sense to me is why BiaB is substituting this chord for an A2 chord in my song when it recognizes an A2 chord and will substitute its A2 chord for an Asus2 chord. It must have something to do with the way it is interpreting the XML file. If so, this appears to be a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.