Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,574
L
lambada Offline OP
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
L
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,574
Hi

I'm finding myself working more and more with Reaper and I'm trying to get my head around the best way to link in to it. Realtracks, styles, multi-riffs etc remain a unique and critical part of my song writing process and will continue to.

I've tried the export from BIAB/Realband and the VST and basically, it seems that you still need to treat the move to Reaper as a one-off final process as the interactive linkages don't seem to cut it. This limitation, I completely fail to grasp. Also, I suspect BIAB 2019 and the 2019 VST pretty much negate a need to use Realband given the power of Reaper. Of course this could all change in time, but time is of the essence as learning Reaper and iZotope are proving both demanding and rewarding.

Am I missing something?


Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487
BIAB 2021 (Build 818)
Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor
Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi)
VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
Off-Topic
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Hi Neil,

As you probably already know, I've been using Reaper for many years.

For my last few songs, I've worked in BIAB and then jumped straight into Reaper. I normally go through Realband to Reaper but because I wanted to get a handle on how best to help Mac people if needed, and they don't have Realband, I thought I'd develop a productive approach using only BIAB and a DAW. With this in mind, my present plan of attack is as follows...

1. I write my song in BIAB.

2. I settle on those instruments that will provide the harmonic foundation and texture of my arrangement. Such instruments are usually, rhythm guitars, drums, piano and bass.

3. In BIAB, I set the mix to 'centre, flat and dry' and generate two tracks of each of those instruments. To do this, I always load the same Realtrack onto a pair of BIAB tracks and then generate. Let's call these two Realtracks that have the same number RT-A and RT-B. I save each Realtrack individually as a WAV file.

My reason for doing the above is because I usually need to copy and paste some sections of Realtrack to compile a single RT that flows how I like it to. Having two tracks means that I have enough audio to work with when compiling the best overall track.

It's not something often discussed these days but when the same Realtrack is generated on multiple tracks in BIAB, the track generations do not parallel one another. That is, each section of RT-A will be different from comparable sections in the generation of RT-B. This is very useful because it means that when I'm compiling, the comparable section in the other track will be the same chord but played differently. It makes it easier to mix and match.

4. Once I've done the above, I find soloist and background RTs to sweeten the arrangement. With these, I usually generate five instances of the RT by loading the same RT onto five BIAB tracks.

In Reaper, I once again compile a single track from the multiple generations and obtain what I think is the best possible soloist or background track.

5. When I am happy with my final product, I often delete the Reaper tracks that I no longer need.

Hope this is useful information for you,
Noel




MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2024
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,574
L
lambada Offline OP
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
L
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,574
Yes, thank you. Fascinating and clever. I take it you also decide when you've finished with BIAB and then remain in Reaper? I was hoping we would be moving to something a little more interactive by now, but perhaps with BIAB 2020? Do you use the multiriff feature?

Last edited by lambada; 07/08/19 03:43 AM.

Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487
BIAB 2021 (Build 818)
Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor
Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi)
VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,558
J
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
J
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,558
Originally Posted By: Noel96
It's not something often discussed these days but when the same Realtrack is generated on multiple tracks in BIAB, the track generations do not parallel one another. That is, each section of RT-A will be different from comparable sections in the generation of RT-B. This is very useful because it means that when I'm compiling, the comparable section in the other track will be the same chord but played differently. It makes it easier to mix and match.

This is a cool feature but I have had instances where BIAB generated the exact same bar or section on both RealTracks. This is especially noticeable when you are panning one of the tracks left and one right. When you get to the problem area the tracks add together and you lose stereo separation.

Easy way to fix this in the DAW is to move the problem area on one track 10ms back and the other 10ms forward. Or you can regenerate in BIAB.

Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 07/08/19 10:40 AM.
Off-Topic
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Originally Posted By: lambada
Yes, thank you. Fascinating and clever. I take it you also decide when you've finished with BIAB and then remain in Reaper?


That's mostly true. Depending on the song, though, I sometimes revisit BIAB and generate more material. This is especially true of solos and endings.

An approach that I always use is that when I'm creating my song in BIAB, I always regenerate the song each time I play it. Then if any riff, fill-in or ending happens that I particularly like, I always save the WAV with the bar reference in the name.

Because I generate my song every time I play it, I end up generating at least a couple of hundred times and this exposes me to a huge number of audio possibilities. I like to take advantage of that.

For example, I might have a turn-around over bars 33-36 and in a particular generation I get an excellent guitar riff happening. In this instance, I'd temporarily set the tone, reverb and panning to zero and then save the file with a name something like: Guitar (insert RT number) turnaround bars 33-36_excellent.wav (such naming helps me identify it when I load it into Reaper).

Once I've save the audio file, I then reload the BIAB file (without saving the current file) so that all settings are returned to what they were.

Originally Posted By: lambada
I was hoping we would be moving to something a little more interactive by now, but perhaps with BIAB 2020? Do you use the multiriff feature?

Yes, I'm a big fan of multiriff and that's one of the reasons I use Realband. I also like Realband for using TC Helicon on vocals.

The reason I didn't mention multiriff before is because, as already mentioned, I'm trying to develop an approach that only BIAB + DAW.


MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2024
Off-Topic
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
Originally Posted By: Noel96
It's not something often discussed these days but when the same Realtrack is generated on multiple tracks in BIAB, the track generations do not parallel one another. That is, each section of RT-A will be different from comparable sections in the generation of RT-B. This is very useful because it means that when I'm compiling, the comparable section in the other track will be the same chord but played differently. It makes it easier to mix and match.

This is a cool feature but I have had instances where BIAB generated the exact same bar or section on both RealTracks. This is especially noticeable when you are panning one of the tracks left and one right. When you get to the problem area the tracks add together and you lose stereo separation.

Easy way to fix this in the DAW is to move the problem area on one track 10ms back and the other 10ms forward. Or you can regenerate in BIAB.


Hi John,

Yes, I use 10 ms too when needed!

I think that some of the older RT files had less variations and sometimes it's not possible to get different generations. I've noticed that this often applies to endings. Mostly, though, generating two or more tracks simultaneously seems to streamline things for me.


MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2024
Off-Topic
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
FWIW, in RB (when heading to Reaper) you can simply grab the track number in RB and drag the tracks to Reaper one after the other .. where they retain the RB name info and just line right up (if the tempos match between RB and Reaper).
Super easy, with no 'drop station' or exporting needed. wink

As a quick way to arrange the windows on my screen to do this I click on RB then hold the Windows key down and hit the right arrow key (which makes RB take the right half of the screen), then click on Reaper and do the same (but with the left arrow) so they share a screen nicely. Then drag stuff over. In some sessions I work with both windows open like this so I can quickly generate more in RB and drag to Reaper ..
Right-click the pic below and 'View Image' for more detail. Reaper adds 'Untitled' at the beginning of the track name here, but otherwise the RT data in the name remains intact, which is extra helpful!

Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in)
RB_2_Reaper.jpg (157.94 KB, 87 downloads)
Last edited by rharv; 07/12/19 02:41 PM.

Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Off-Topic
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,954
P
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
P
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,954
If you want to integrate to Reaper look at ReaTrak.
The thing with the Biab Plugin you can leave the tracks in that (local folders) until all is good.
You can have a Biab Plugin on each Reaper track generating multiriffs for as many instruments as you like midi or real.
You can send midi to any track and virtual instrument, send Direct Input RealTracks to the host through Guitar Rig or Amplitube by adding the Guitar FX VST after the Biab Plugin.
You can redo any section of track with the MultiRiffs and just slip it in.
You can have a Plugin on one track with a lot of different drums in to see what one fits best.
These can be all played back in sync with any tracks if already in Reaper.
You simply select the track in each Plugin you want played back in sync together.
When you have got it how you like just drag those tracks from the Plugins into Reaper.
ReaTrak will also generate RealDrums directly in Reaper giving you more control, allowing editing of any section and giving individual volume control of the sections, choose the shots n holds you want, adjust pushes.

Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,574
L
lambada Offline OP
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
L
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,574
Thanks Pipeline, Noel and Rharv. You guys really know your stuff. I'm still a novice with Reaper and RealBand. BIAB to some extent as well.


Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487
BIAB 2021 (Build 818)
Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor
Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi)
VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!

If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.

A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."

"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."

"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."

Happy Easter! Holiday Hours...

2024 is well underway - it's already Easter Weekend!

Our Customer Service hours this weekend are:

Friday, March 29: 8-4
Saturday, March 30: 8-4
Sunday, March 31: closed

Regular hours resume Monday, April 1st - no joke!

Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created a video to help you learn more about the Volume Automation options in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Volume Automation

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#volume-automation

Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created this short video to explain Audio Input Monitoring within Band-in-a-Box® 2024, and included some tips & troubleshooting details too!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Audio Input Monitoring

3:17: Tips
5:10: Troubleshooting

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#audio-input-monitoring

Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!

We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!

Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics81,399
Posts732,550
Members38,442
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
danielsk, Mark Morgan, zagrajbarke, Ernest J, Izzy
38,442 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 199
Al-David 133
DC Ron 115
rsdean 85
dcuny 83
Today's Birthdays
(charlie), WobblyGstring
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5