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#596692 - 05/09/20 10:45 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 193
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
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Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 193
Loc: Europe
I almost hear you sigh, sorry. I got you the first time, but didn’t express myself clearly. It’s a great idea. No soloist, but the solo track.

I use the solo track a lot (not the soloist, sorry for the misnomer): for transcription, for recording my midi piano, to work on my lousy timing, to check out different approaches...

There is a great and underestimated PGMUSIC product: the Modern Jazz Pianist. I imported it in BIAB and sent the midi piano to the solo track to check it out. The work of Renee Rosnes especially is full of deliciously refined modern harmony. There is a lot to be learned from that. On this product they didn’t use the automatic accompaniment of BIAB, because it would sound wrong, the bass part in particular. Sadly there is not much in the way of explanation, so I am often clueless in trying to grasp the harmony behind it. It’s way beyond Mark Levine. Like some of the stuff Miles Black talks about in his Pgmusic Jazz Piano tutorial, also a great source of info.
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

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#596714 - 05/10/20 05:48 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20214
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20214
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Very good.

I don’t have The Modern Jazz Pianist. If someone buys that, can they use a piano track from it in a ‘regular’ BIAB song?
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BIAB 2020 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition CC, Notion; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#596756 - 05/10/20 10:04 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 193
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
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Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 193
Loc: Europe
It’s wonderful

If you open the midi in BIAB you can follow the chords on screen. It’s a pgmusic MIDI and BIAB displays the chords. You can silence drum and bass and choose other accompaniment.

I know this because the original software gives very strange sheet results in Windows 8-10. I was disappointed, but dragging the midi files in BIAB gives you the right chord changes.

It’s very intricate, I said it’s beyond Mark Levine, but that’s not all true. Advanced things I learned from Levine (on slash chords for instance or the “Kenny Barron” chord, the use of phrygian) are omnipresent. And, though I think Renee Rosnes is the big star of the session, Miles Black shows he has some advanced stuff down, also.

I hope Miles Black could one day help us, mortals, to better understand the music (especially what Renee Rosnes does, cause it’s all Hancock, Beirach, Tyner...) on this very underrated piece of software. I’d gladly pay for this tutorial.

With Modern Jazz Pianist, Pgmusic was on the cutting edge of modern jazz. i hope they repeat it one day with todays’ players.
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

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#596804 - 05/10/20 05:54 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6188
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6188
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
+1 in support of this request.

A user should be able to program the midi pattern StyleMaker to use ANY conceivable chord or pattern appropriate to the selected midi patch number.

At the very least perhaps it is time for PG Music to revisit the midi pattern StyleMaker. When a retired college professor states the present StyleMaker is beyond his grasp that is telling.
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Jim Fogle - 2020 BiaB (724) RB (Build 4) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 1909, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#596809 - 05/10/20 06:32 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20214
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20214
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
... When a retired college professor states the present StyleMaker is beyond his grasp that is telling.
Well, now there is a challenge. I doubt it is beyond my grasp. I was put off by it initially, and it is my plan to find time to explore it given the comments of those who say I will benefit by doing so. During the time I'm stranded at home, I'm writing music like crazy. But, point (and nudge) taken. Thanks.
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BIAB 2020 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition CC, Notion; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#596814 - 05/10/20 07:00 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6188
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6188
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Matt,

Please do not be offended as no offense was intended.

My hope is PG Music will accept the statement you made and my response as two strong indicators that the midi pattern Stylemaker deserves some attention.

PG Music has started publishing midi styles after neglecting them for a few years. Midi is beginning to have renewed interest so now is an opportune time to give the midi pattern Stylemaker some attention.
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Jim Fogle - 2020 BiaB (724) RB (Build 4) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 1909, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#596880 - 05/11/20 05:37 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20214
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
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Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I completely agree!
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BIAB 2020 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition CC, Notion; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#596892 - 05/11/20 06:47 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 12/27/03
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MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I completely agree!


As do I!
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It has been a joy being quarantined with my wife. We've caught up on all the things I have done wrong in our 53 years of marriage!

64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB and RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software and some hardware.

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#599931 - 05/31/20 12:59 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 193
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
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Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 193
Loc: Europe
Which chords can BIAB really play? Let’s find out in this video.
I tried to sum it up in this video (if you go see it on Youtube, I have some markers to help you switch from part to part).

You can easily try it yourself. Just make a blank style with a scale running up and down for bass and piano. Remember, for a style, you have to stay in C7.

And, to be sure, there is still fun to be had. Check the end of the video.
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

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#599973 - 05/31/20 10:02 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6188
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6188
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Dzjang,

I want to applaud you for your effort directed at identifying a Band-in-a-Box deficiency and making a suggestion to improve the product.

My knowledge of music theory is not strong but you convinced me that the midi Stylemaker can be improved.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2020 BiaB (724) RB (Build 4) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 1909, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#599985 - 05/31/20 12:24 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 11076
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 11076
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Dzjang,
Thanks for putting in such a big effort to identify what is actually occurring. Your work is appreciated.
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#599986 - 05/31/20 12:36 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20214
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20214
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Dzjang, this is interesting and thank you.

I just want to make sure, was it intentional that you used a bass patch on the second half, representing the scales the piano is to play? It's not a bass part in a higher register showing on the treble clef? I'm confused...
_________________________
BIAB 2020 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition CC, Notion; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#600048 - 06/01/20 01:15 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 193
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 193
Loc: Europe
Thx

@Matt

It’s channel three and in the “style” I made, it is in the piano part.

I played with the idea of putting my bass lines in the piano part of the stylemaker. If the piano part would be better (which it is, but not a lot) I could make more elaborate bass-styles and drop the piano part altogether. Could be intresting for trio playing, myself being the third part of the trio, smile

I was thinking about Gary Peacock’s playing... sometimes he does a little melodic thing (scalar stuff), which I can not do if I try this on the regular bass channel in the style maker. Other great players like Rueben Rogers, Patitucci, Christian McBride go far beyond 1-3-5 on their bass.

I added all the files I used. Since you can not upload a -STY-file on this forum, I renamed it as a pdf, file. So replace pdf with STY and it will work.

Just to be sure: I still use BIAB every day and like it because of its' combination of features: lead sheet (crashes often if you show more than 4 lines of melody, or the chords becomes unreadable but then again, I can live with that...), accompaniment, chord sheet...

But I have a real dislike for the false claims and the lack of respect for the serious jazz lover/amateur/semi pro.

BIAB shouldn't go interpret chords. It should play what is written. This way people could learn to use the right chord for the job and how to reharmonize music. It would help get the best of Norton's elaborate and really well made New Real Book disks (I may not follow some of Nortons’ posts, but I have great respect for the craftsmanship of his real book disks). It would help to learn from the Modern Jazz Pianist disks when using them inside BIAB (especially Renee Rosnes’ immensely sophisticated playing and Miles Black’s intense modern harmony)....

Since PGmusic has access to all these great players, the programmers should step up the harmony inside BIAB.

Gets me so frustrated, sometimes, sorry for that.


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_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

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#600058 - 06/01/20 03:49 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 11076
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 11076
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I hear your frustration, and do know that there are many of us supporting your excellent efforts.

Hopefully others that can assist with resolving will see this also.

Excellent effort, and appreciated.
_________________________
BIAB&RB2020(Audiophile),Win-10Pro, SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Act. Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

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#600068 - 06/01/20 05:37 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 5051
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 5051
+1 thanks.
You just got to keep nagging and posting videos and pics, I hate doing it but it's the only way to get things fixed or implemented, though a decade at it does take it out of you.
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Free Biab & BiabVST Chord Picker Tool

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#600147 - 06/01/20 09:11 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Pipeline]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 5051
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 5051
I was just making a Biab chord importer for Impro-Visor
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=600144
It has a Utilities > Voicing Editor where you can add your own chords.
It has a styles editor but I haven't played around with it.
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ReaTrak Integrate Biab & Plugin in Reaper
Free Biab & BiabVST Chord Picker Tool

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#600156 - 06/02/20 03:48 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 193
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 193
Loc: Europe
Great, pipeline,

Sad that Impro-visor has a really un-intuitive style maker. I tried using MIDI files, but failed every time.

On the other hand, impro-visor knows chords and harmony.
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

Top
#605671 - 07/08/20 10:15 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 193
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 193
Loc: Europe
Some say midi styles play wrong notes, but real styles are correct,

Well...


_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

Top
#605674 - 07/09/20 12:36 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 11076
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 11076
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Thanks for your hard work and dedication Jan.

You have clearly and sensitively articulated a number of areas where the results don't reflect the expectations. Let's hope these areas can be improved.
_________________________
BIAB&RB2020(Audiophile),Win-10Pro, SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Act. Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

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#605678 - 07/09/20 02:34 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 536
Loc: Berlin, Germany
Brille Online   content
Journeyman

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 536
Loc: Berlin, Germany
Dzjang,
with a lot of effort, you have put together quite exactly where BiaB has problems. As a double bass player, I've been concerned for a long time about the program's somewhat neglected approach to jazz bass accompaniment. And I am quite impressed with your own style files.
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Biab/RB latest build, German language pak, Win 10/64 Pro, 512 GB SSD, 16 GB RAM. Notation SW Finale, StaffPad. Playing Double Bass, Guitar, Piano

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We've EXTENDED our special until JULY 15TH!

Xtra Styles PAK 9 includes deep-south New Orleans gospel, a country soul groove, a psychedelic pop ballad, action-sequence cinematic metal, a Cajun jaw harp boogie, post-punk folk rock, quarter-feel jazz blues, several modern jazz styles, a modern Celtic folk reel, multiple 6/8 grooves, and so much more! There's a MultiStyle in every genre, and our biggest MultiStyle has a total of ten substyles! Add it to your collection today for just $29 (reg. $49)!

Loops-with-Style PAK 2 includes 50 new Styles & 100 new Loops to add to your Band-in-a-Box® collection! There are two new genres: gospel and funk, and we've added to the selection for electronic, hip hop, jazz, pop, R&B, rock, and world! Purchase Loops-with-Style PAK 2 on sale for only $19 (reg. $29)!

Already have a few of our Xtra Styles PAKs? Top up now - each of our 9 Xtra Styles PAKs are just $29 (reg. $49)! Don't have any, and want them ALL? Grab all during our sale for just $199 (reg. $349)!

Learn more about Xtra Styles PAKs for Band-in-a-Box and listen to demos here.

More information on Loops-with-Style PAKs can be found here.

Mac user? Click here for OS specific purchase links.

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