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#547887 - 08/02/19 03:27 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box
Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 146
NigelSpiers Offline
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Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 146
Hi,

I recently purchased Kontakt 6 and the Big Fish Audio "Crossroads Blues" library to improve the sound quality when playing BIAB Midi Only or mixed MIDI & Real Tracks Styles.

I did this because the Kontakt Factory Library Sounds are terrible - the sound quality is terrible (much worse than Coyote VST Synth) plus they don't play the Midi notes in the BIAB style either - just random rubbish.

I can get sounds out when using the Crossroads instruments but they also a garbled mess and not related to the MIDI Style I have chosen. They do not play the notes in the Midi Style at all.

I contacted Big Fish Audio and they said:

"Crossroads Blues is a loop-based product, not a multi-sampled virtual instrument. Were you looking for a VI or for loops?"

I'm new to all this Midi, Kontakt and 3rd Party Instruments?sound Libraries.

I want acoustic and electric Blues, R&B and Jazz instruments i.e. Upright and Electric Basses, Electric Rhythm and Lead Guitars, Pianos, B3 Organ, Brush and Pop Drum Kits, Blues harp, Horn Section and Saxes.

Please advise if I have bought the wrong Instruments Library (Crossroads Blues) to run in Kontakt and also please suggest what I should buy.

Thanks for your assistance.

Best Regards
Nigel

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#547894 - 08/02/19 04:53 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 3961
Pipeline Offline
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Edited by Pipeline (08/02/19 06:57 PM)
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#547903 - 08/02/19 05:39 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 04/13/07
Posts: 393
Loc: Australia
Beachboy Offline
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Registered: 04/13/07
Posts: 393
Loc: Australia
Hi Nigel,
Probably is the wrong thing to be using with BIAB.
They are more like "riffs" which are mapped to individual keys (ie midi notes) on the keyboard.
So if you send notes to Kontakt via BIAB it will most likely chop & change the "riff" with every midi note it receives from BIAB. I don't have it (crossroad blues) but that's how it seems to work
Have a look at this video & watch the kontakt keyboard and see how a single note is triggered by a single note.

Crossroad Blues Youtube
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#547911 - 08/02/19 06:15 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1231
Rustyspoon# Offline
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Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1231
Nigel,
Kontakt is a pretty complex tool, and I am sure the factory sounds are better than Coyote...(I have it)
You just got to tune it for specific song. That being said, it seems like you are looking more for a balanced set of sounds in a single bank...like keyboard would have.
I do not believe there are any good "balanced" libraries out there for Kontakt. Kontakt is all about individual instruments and specific oriented libraries. That is where strength lives. Kontakt is not GM compliant, everything has to be assigned manually.

The only "all in one" GM solution that has a good overall sound is Halion Sonic (full)
My second choice is Synthfont VST which is included with BIAB + a decent GM bank.

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#547918 - 08/02/19 07:56 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2561
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2561
Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Nigel,
Kontakt is a pretty complex tool, and I am sure the factory sounds are better than Coyote...(I have it)

Agreed. I have Kontakt as well and the included factory sounds are excellent!

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#547935 - 08/03/19 02:47 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 104
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
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Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 104
Loc: Europe
Hi Nigel,

The Kontakt factory library is often quite good. You could check Biab>preferences>Midi channel: see if the channel of piano, guitar, drums is the same as the piano, guitar, drums in Kontakt.
Most times, bass is on Ch2: this means, you load a bass from Kontakt Library and in Kontakt you make sure ch2 is selected.
Also check if the octave is right. In biab-preferences-midi channel, you can lower (-1) or change the,octave as you please. This will be a solution, along with specifying for each instrument in Kontakt the right channel.

I’ve been where you’ve been: trying to use kontakt and really coming up with strange results. But, after a lot of reading, asking and trying, it works perfectly. Hang in there, it’s worth it.

You would want Big Fish’s vintage rhythm section. Sounds really good.

If you want more variation, but not too expensive, get Airmusictech’s Xpand2, works nicely on Kontakt. On some trustworthy sites, like bestservice you can get it for as low as 25 bucks. Outdated in comparison to multi sampled instruments, but for the price...

An unexpected really good one is vi.2 by vir2instruments. Sounds are a little outdated, maybe, but for 99 bucks it’s a steal. Outdated, meaning, in comparison to really high end libraries. In comparison to soundcanvas or most soundfonts it is lightyears ahead.

If you want to go further and have even better sounds, there are wonderful double basses and brush drums to be had: analoguedrums, straightaheadsamples, fluffy audio. These are great but will set you back around 100€ for each instrument. With patience, buying an instrument every two months or so, you can build a really good library. These sounds are extremely realistic and there is no comparison with the built in sounds. They are the real deal and make band in a box come alive.

Last thing. Most Biab styles have been programmed with high verlocity. Turn down the velocity of the styles you like and it will sound much better.


Edited by Dzjang (08/03/19 03:01 AM)
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

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#547945 - 08/03/19 05:34 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 12/08/02
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Loc: Chicago
MusicStudent Offline
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Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Nigel, Kontakt is a pretty complex tool,


Exactly. You have jumped into the deep end of the pool trying to use Kontakt in BIAB. I am sure it can work to some degree with BIAB, but I have never seen the need. Kontakt is meant for a DAW. Stick with a good general midi synth for BIAB. Good luck.
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#547958 - 08/03/19 07:02 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 12/27/03
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Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Nigel, Kontakt is a pretty complex tool,


Exactly. You have jumped into the deep end of the pool trying to use Kontakt in BIAB. I am sure it can work to some degree with BIAB, but I have never seen the need. Kontakt is meant for a DAW. Stick with a good general midi synth for BIAB. Good luck.


Dan has touched on my workflow. I use BiaB as a scratch pad. I play around with chord progressions, styles, pushes, etc using Coyote. I do not worry about instrumentation or tonal qualities in BiaB. I drag and drop everything into my DAW, Studio One Pro. It is there that I use Kontakt and other VSTis to change instruments and work on the tonal qualities I want. I also do all off my MIDI editing in my DAW. I find it much easier to work in my DAW then in BiaB.

This is just MY workflow and yours maybe totally different.
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#547959 - 08/03/19 07:27 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: MarioD]
Registered: 12/08/02
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Loc: Chicago
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 6055
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: MarioD
Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Nigel, Kontakt is a pretty complex tool,


Exactly. You have jumped into the deep end of the pool trying to use Kontakt in BIAB. I am sure it can work to some degree with BIAB, but I have never seen the need. Kontakt is meant for a DAW. Stick with a good general midi synth for BIAB. Good luck.


Dan has touched on my workflow. I use BiaB as a scratch pad. I play around with chord progressions, styles, pushes, etc using Coyote. I do not worry about instrumentation or tonal qualities in BiaB. I drag and drop everything into my DAW, Studio One Pro. It is there that I use Kontakt and other VSTis to change instruments and work on the tonal qualities I want. I also do all off my MIDI editing in my DAW. I find it much easier to work in my DAW then in BiaB.

This is just MY workflow and yours maybe totally different.


Like brothers from other mothers. grin
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#547961 - 08/03/19 07:41 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: MarioD]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7819
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Mine also Mario
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#547962 - 08/03/19 07:42 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 05/13/03
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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I just use the Coyote Forte DXi
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#548066 - 08/03/19 07:09 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5348
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5348
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Originally Posted By: NigelSpiers
Hi,

I recently purchased Kontakt 6 and the Big Fish Audio "Crossroads Blues" library to improve the sound quality when playing BIAB Midi Only or mixed MIDI & Real Tracks Styles.

I did this because the Kontakt Factory Library Sounds are terrible - the sound quality is terrible (much worse than Coyote VST Synth) plus they don't play the Midi notes in the BIAB style either - just random rubbish.

I can get sounds out when using the Crossroads instruments but they also a garbled mess and not related to the MIDI Style I have chosen. They do not play the notes in the Midi Style at all.

I contacted Big Fish Audio and they said:

"Crossroads Blues is a loop-based product, not a multi-sampled virtual instrument. Were you looking for a VI or for loops?"

I'm new to all this Midi, Kontakt and 3rd Party Instruments?sound Libraries.

I want acoustic and electric Blues, R&B and Jazz instruments i.e. Upright and Electric Basses, Electric Rhythm and Lead Guitars, Pianos, B3 Organ, Brush and Pop Drum Kits, Blues harp, Horn Section and Saxes.

Please advise if I have bought the wrong Instruments Library (Crossroads Blues) to run in Kontakt and also please suggest what I should buy.

Thanks for your assistance.

Best Regards
Nigel



Nigel,

If you want Band-in-a-Box midi styles to generate midi patterns then you want virtual instruments to play the midi patterns.

As others noted, Crossroad Blues is not a virtual instrument. Crossroad Blues is a collection of a specific type of audio loops called a construction kit. A producer will record a band playing a song. For example the song might have drums, piano, lead guitar, rhythm guitar and horn section. The producer will take each instrument track and divide it into sections like intro, verse, bridge and ending. There usually will be alternate takes of some sections and usually there is a stereo mix of one way all the instrument parts can be combined to give you an idea how the end result sounds. Each musical section will be anywhere from one to eight bars.

Kontakt can play virtual instruments but it can also play the audio in construction kit sections which can be confusing. Why would you want to when they sound so bad? Because Kontakt can take the individual samples, cut them into much smaller samples and then modify them in ways they were not intended to be modified. Kontakt can playback the smaller samples out of sequence from the original sample. It can also drastically change the pitch or tempo of a sample. Kontakt is a powerful tool but an audio loop construction set is not the right instrument to use in this case.

The good news is all is not lost. You can use RealBand or another DAW to combine the construction set loops into a complete song project. Send me a private message if you would like to explore that idea in more detail.

I hope that explanation helps.
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2019 UltraPlusPak BiaB(634) RealBand(Build 5)
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Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#548174 - 08/04/19 04:44 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 146
NigelSpiers Offline
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Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 146
Hi Dzjang,

Thanks for your excellent advice and thank you to all the other members for their thoughtful advice - much appreciated.

Just a couple more questions:

1. If I get Big Fish's Vintage Rhythm Section for Kontakt - will that work OK with BIAB MIDI Styles and Mixed MIDI and Realtracks Styles?

2. What are the guitar's like in the Vintage Rhythm Section? Most of the Soundfonts and VST Instruments (Piano, Drums, Organ and Bass) I've tested to date sound reasonably realistic but it's the guitars that sound like a cat with it's tail caught in the door.

Thanks & Best Regards
Nigel

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#548176 - 08/04/19 05:19 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5348
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5348
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Nigel,

I really appreciate the questions your asking. There hasn't been any memorable discussions of midi virtual instruments in a long time. Long overdue.

Vintage Rhythm Section is a virtual instrument so you will be able to play the instrument with midi patterns. As someone else mentioned you'll likely want to use the melody and solo tracks in Band-in-a-Box so you can program the keyswitches for maximim control.

There are a total of 67 virtual instruments in the collection. Here is a list of the guitars:

R&B Guitars
- 70s Funky Telecaster
- Funk-Soul Wah Rhythm Guitar
- Mod-Wah Soulful Strat
- Philly Soul Electric Sitar
- Psychedelic Soul Lead Guitar

Jazz Guitars
- Clean Jazz Guitar
- Gritty Jazz Guitar

Rock Guitars
- 12-String Rickenbacker
- 68 Les Paul Clean
- 68 Les Paul Classic Rock
- 70s Fuzz Lead Guitar
- Clean Tremolo Surf Guitar
- Dirty Tremolo Surf Guitar
- Flower Power Guitar
- Martin Acoustic Guitar
- Psychedelic Electric Sitar
- Woodstock Lead Guitar

One important fact I noted in the description is Vintage Rhythm Section can be used by the full Kontakt program and the Kontakt Free player. While it doesn't matter to you since you have the full program it means users like me don't have to purchase Kontakt as well as the library.
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2019 UltraPlusPak BiaB(634) RealBand(Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB SSD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#548187 - 08/04/19 08:17 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 3961
Pipeline Offline
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#548254 - 08/05/19 10:58 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7112
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Online   content
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Nigel, here's the question you have to answer. How much work do you want to do after you're entered your chords and selected a style in Biab BEFORE you hit play? Before I expand on that a little background about General MIdi (GM) and what it is.

Midi has no sound as you've found out. Midi is simply a set of computer instructions telling a synth what to play. That synth can be a hardware module, a keyboard or a piece of software (softsynth).

GM is a basic soundset consisting of 128 sounds which include special effects like a gunshot, helicopter, door slam and others. You get 2 pianos, 2 electric pianos, one of 3 types of guitar each, one vibes, acoustic and electric basses, one each, one slap I think and so on. Very limited. The big deal is all those sounds are set to the GM patch standard. You give a GM song to me, I put it into my system and as long as I use a GM synth all the instruments will be correct. They could sound different if I have a different GM synth than yours but all the instruments and effects match.

But, you send a non GM song created with Kontakt to me and I try to play it it will sound like a fight in a junkyard because I don't have Kontakt. I have to manually look at each part and match up the instruments and midi channels myself with whatever synth I'm using before I can play it. This is why btw people will ask why some midi file they downloaded won't play correctly. This is usually the reason.

The second big deal is sound quality. GM is GM as far as instructions and patches are concerned but sound quality is up to what GM synth you're using. The third big deal is convenience. By that I mean in Biab all you do is select a GM synth and hit Play. Biab is set up to use GM as the default.

So, are you interested in spending a considerable amount of time using a Non GM synth like Kontakt, selecting each midi channel manually, selecting each instrument manually (remember GM gives you one guitar for each type, Kontakt has dozens), playing around with the individual instrument controls of which there are many and doing all that before you hit Play?

If you think about it and decide you're really not interested in doing that much work before you can hear anything then you need to focus on the best GM synth you can find. This is the reason most of us when using Biab to audition atyles, test out different arrangements etc only care about using a decent GM synth in Biab itself. If you want to really take your song further, make it sound the best possible it's easier to do it in a DAW. You already have a free DAW included in your package, it's called Real Band. It has 48 tracks, works with Biab files and it works with Kontakt and other VST's perfectly. You should be checking out Real Band at the same time you're working with Biab, you'll find RB is pretty cool too.

Bob
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#548316 - 08/05/19 06:30 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 174
Paj Offline
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Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 174
Nigel,

You've been getting a lot of good VI tips here.

For Guitar: since you have the full version of Kontakt:
https://impactsoundworks.com/product/shreddage-3-stratus-free/
Hard to complain about the price for this one, and ISW has a lot of experience with articulating guitar libraries.

These are something like the loop library you got from BigFishAudio but you can reset the loops to play single notes/chords/strums. I mention them because they're exceptional, from an exceptional developer, and right now they're an exceptional bargain (Riffendium 1, 2 & 3 for $44):
https://audioplugin.deals/deal-2/

Don't forget that there are some really good guitar (and other) libraries for UVI Workstation.

And, of course, when you say "guitar", the libraries are as varied as the types of guitar, so I'm just mentioning a few electric guitar libraries, and even those run the gamut---clean, crunch, distorted, metal, 6-7-8-12-string, nylon, steel, prepared, by brand, etc.

You can Google a lot of what you're looking for by adding "Kontakt" in your search line.

A lot of developers have/offer free/demo libraries of all types, so visit the websites and get on their mailing lists.

Somebody mentioned Indiginus. Besides the sound, they have great playability features, like keyswitching and/or velocity switching, which puts them a cut above. I just got their new steel guitar library---KILLER!
http://indiginus.com/freedownloads.html

Personally, I wait for sales and try to never pay more than 50% of the regular price. One of those bundles that goes on sale twice a year for 50% off is Komplete Ultimate, with update and/or upgrade pricing. Highly recommended to solve your synth, plugin, and sample library needs (notably lacking in choir and vocal libraries) in one fell swoop. I'd also recommend Cory Pelizzari's YouTube video on enhanced use of the Kontakt libraries, as well as well as Eli Krantzberg's tutorials on the Kontakt Factory Library. It would also be a shame to miss out on AIR Music Tech's AIEP3 complete upgrade, maybe one of the absolute best plugin/VI bargains out there.
https://www.pluginboutique.com/product/1-Instruments/58-Inst-Bundle/2294-AIR-Instrument-Expansion-Pack-3-COMPLETE-UPGRADE-


The whole thing is just mind-boggling but I'm completely boggled and lovin' it.

Paj
8^)

P.S.: In case you're not aware of it, iZotope IRIS 2 comes free with any purchase at Plugin Boutique during the month of August. It comes with 11GB of samples and sampled instruments.




Edited by Paj (08/06/19 02:26 AM)

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#548338 - 08/05/19 11:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: Paj]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 3961
Pipeline Offline
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Originally Posted By: Paj
...For Guitar: since you have the full version of Kontakt:
https://impactsoundworks.com/product/shreddage-3-stratus-free/
Hard to complain about the price for this one, and ISW has a lot of experience with articulating guitar libraries...


Thanks !!
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#548480 - 08/07/19 01:34 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 146
NigelSpiers Offline
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Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 146
Kontakt - Vintage Rhythm Section Review:

Big Fish Audio were generous and allowed me to swap "Crossroads Blues" (which does not work with BIAB MIDI Styles) Library for their "Vintage Rhythm Section" Library which does work with BIAB Styles.

After a full day of downloading and installing I was eager to hear the results. I went straight for the main MIDI problem area - Guitars.

There are around six guitars in this library and they are uniformly atrocious. The guitars in Coyote Forte and Timbres of Heaven GM banks are way better and the whole reason I started down this Kontakt route was to get better basic band instruments including guitars.

I tried them in Kontakt and with BIAB MIDI styles and - dreadful. The only passable one was a Martin Acoustic but even that was not usable. I also tried each guitar with all the sound effects provided off and on - another 4 hours work.

So I thought maybe there is still something salvageable from this library - so I tried the Pianos - there is only one and it is OK (not good).

So I then tried Organs and again there are about 4 Hammond Organ instruments - all poor.

I havn't tried the drum kits or basses because frankly most GM banks have reasonable sounding Drums and Basses.

I would give the "Vintage Rhythm Section" by Big Fish Audio a 1 out of 5 and that's only because we are having some nice Spring weather here in Christchurch, New Zealand.

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#548492 - 08/07/19 04:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 3961
Pipeline Offline
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Posts: 3961
The Coyote Forte has great sound, you can convert that to a GM sfz.
You can also make your own GM soundfont with the instruments that you like best.
With BB you can also load any GM soundfont into any channel in the soundfont player to use that particular instrument in that soundfont.

If you give me a midi style demo song I can add some of my Kontakt instruments to it and upload the wma/wav demos for each track.

Ample Sound have some free instruments.

EDIT: it depends on what you need the end results for, backing, creating a CD ? as things will sound a lot better once mixed in the DAW.


Edited by Pipeline (08/07/19 05:16 AM)
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#548499 - 08/07/19 05:38 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 785
Loc: Cornwall UK
Mike Head Offline
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Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 785
Loc: Cornwall UK
Hi
Maybe you are looking to deep for your purpose.
Just as thought why not try downloading the Yamaha XG lite vsti that I uploaded previously. This has a whole bunch of guitars that respond to Gm as their banks are MSB 000, LSB 000, patch name.
These are the voices you get in Yamaha arranger keyboards if you use the basic XG voice set.
Note as said in my original post there is no gui to this vsti so you will have to select your voices directly from the BIAB midi track screen.

If you download and install the deidicated pat file that I created you will also be able to get to the higher bank voices where you will find even more guitars.
Links to original post below:

Pat file
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=57637&Number=395775#Post395775

XGLite VSTI
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=57554&Number=395043#Post395043

More info
Voice
No.
Bank Select MIDI
MSB
(0–127)
LSB
(0–127)
Program
Change#
(1–128)
Voice Name

215 000 000 025 Nylon Guitar
216 000 043 025 Velocity Guitar Harmonics
217 000 096 025 Ukulele
218 000 000 026 Steel Guitar
219 000 035 026 12-string Guitar
220 000 040 026 Nylon & Steel Guitar
221 000 041 026 Steel Guitar with Body Sound
222 000 096 026 Mandolin
223 000 000 027 Jazz Guitar
224 000 032 027 Jazz Amp
225 000 000 028 Clean Guitar
226 000 032 028 Chorus Guitar
227 000 000 029 Muted Guitar
228 000 040 029 Funk Guitar
229 000 041 029 Muted Steel Guitar
230 000 045 029 Jazz Man
231 000 000 030 Overdriven Guitar
232 000 043 030 Guitar Pinch
233 000 000 031 Distortion Guitar
234 000 040 031 Feedback Guitar
235 000 041 031 Feedback Guitar 2
236 000 000 032 Guitar Harmonics
237 000 065 032 Guitar Feedback
238 000 066 032 Guitar Harmonics 2


May help give it a go.

Regards Mike


Edited by Mike Head (08/07/19 09:14 AM)
_________________________
BIAB2019,UltraPlus, Asus N55S,W10/64,Akai EIEpro,
Yamaha Clavinova CVP405,CoolsoftVirt,MidiSynth
Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd,Cakewalk blab,Kontakt

http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/

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#548508 - 08/07/19 06:37 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 12502
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 12502
Loc: Hamlin NY
What kind of guitars are you looking at for your songs? Acoustic? Pop? Metal?

Remember that patch that doesn't sound good as a solo patch may sound good in a mix. Also a good solo patch may not sound good in a mix.

Do you have the free Amplitube installed? Running a Kontakt patch through it can alter the guitar sound.

If you are looking for a particular guitar sound your best bet would be to look at a high end one guitar patch like these:

http://www.pettinhouse.com/html/acousticguitar_for_konatkt.html

https://blog.native-instruments.com/top-ten-best-virtual-guitars/

There are many others. Google guitars for kontakt.

If you give us a clue in what you are looking for and maybe we can help.

PS - I have found that adding external effects to a Kontakt sound is much better then using Kontakt's internal effects. YMMV

PPS- also check here as you may find some good sounding free Kontakt patches:

https://hiphopmakers.com/free-kontakt-library-instruments-patches
_________________________
Folgers got it wrong. The best part of waking up is going back to bed after you pee!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#548577 - 08/07/19 05:49 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 146
NigelSpiers Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 146
Hi Mike and Mario,

Thanks for your suggestions - much appreciated.

I think I'll give it "a rest" for a while and then investigate some of the free VST Instruments (particularly the guitars) and sound fonts you have suggested when I get a chance.

In the meantime I'm finding "Timbres of Heaven" is a big step up from Coyote and even Coyote Forte and my old SD2 module as a GM bank.

Best Regards
Nigel

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#548603 - 08/08/19 04:11 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 104
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 104
Loc: Europe
Hey Nigel,

Sorry to hear vintage rhythm section was not to your liking. I believe it’s a bit rough, but I like that aspect of it. Good that the Big Fishes let you swap!

If you want something more smooth sounding, you could check out some of the other members’ ideas. There are great sounds to be had.

Nevertheless, I truly believe the Vintage Rhythm section is superior to Roland Sound Canvas, Microsoft Gm and Coyote (included in Band in a Box).

You have to find the right settings. Hopefully you just don’t give up easily on this nice product.

On the other hand, seeing all the great advice of my colleagues, I know you can appreciate the great support your fellow users are prepared to give you. This is a great forum. Remember that in the native-instruments forum, a lot of members are equally supportive and they will help you out.

Best regards,

Jan
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

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#548685 - 08/08/19 07:14 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: NigelSpiers]
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7112
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7112
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
I think one point to be made here is all of these sound libraries regardless of where they are from are only the beginning. Just a starting point. Where it becomes fun is when you start playing with effects ESPECIALLY with guitars! Amp simulators, tape saturation, EQ, distortion, tons of stuff. Big Fish gave you some. You already have Amplitube included with Biab for free. Check it out. You have to pick a guitar that you may not like right away but then run it through all this stuff and you'll be blown away by the change in sound.

Do you understand what DI means, Nigel? It means Direct Input where a guitar is recorded directly from the guitar itself, no amp, no effects, no nothing. Most libraries will have both. Guitars with effects and DI guitars. DI sounds like crap initially. BUT it allows you the producer to make it into whatever you want because you will have set up an effects rack in your DAW or Biab.

Another trick I used in a guitar centric tune I worked on for my sister. It's Still Loving You by the Scorpions. Pretty much all guitar and I was working with a midi file. I would double up the guitars on some passages meaning copy the original guitar track to a new track, change the midi channel and assign a different guitar patch to it. Now you have two different guitars playing the same thing each with their own effects and you can mix both tracks however you want to get the sound you want. This was all done in Real Band using Sample Tank 3, the Forte Dxi and even one part from the lowly Coyote Wavetable plus the PG Effects which look basic, not flashy but sound pretty good.

This kind of thing goes on on records all the time. You're trying to duplicate a guitar sound when in the studio the engineer did the exact same thing, duped the guitar, maybe delayed one track just a touch and put different effects on both and here you are trying to get that sound by yourself.

You have to be prepared to experiment, be creative and have fun with it.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#548746 - 08/09/19 10:56 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recommended Kontakt Instruments to be Used with Band In A Box [Re: jazzmammal]
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7112
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7112
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Here's something I just saw on the User Tracks forum.

The No Budget Band

This is one heckuva lot of work Pipeline did here. He not only put together a complete set of instruments in .sfz format he explained in detail how it all works. Very impressive and I need to check that out further.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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Fixed: The Chord Builder is disabled if previously opened before using a modal dialog (eg. Style Picker, Set Tempo).
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PowerTracks Pro Audio 2019 Build 2 Update Available!

PowerTracks Pro Audio 2019 users can download the FREE Build 2 patch update here

Summary of Changes in Build 2:
Fixed: Sometimes the position of the VST/DX plugs window (even if not visible) would prevent a drop, such as into the drop station, from occurring.
Fixed: When batch converting files, the volume of some file types such as wav/mp3/wma/mp4, etc. would be too low.
Fixed: In Chords Window, you could not enter held chords on Piano track.
Fixed: LeadSheet might not display tied notes on the last bar of a track.
Fixed: Pressing "M" key in Editable Notation to insert a new note at the current time location on the Staff was inserting a duplicate note rather than inserting it above an existing note.
Fixed: Loading in a MusicXML file could result in MIDI notes of zero instead of the currect MIDI notes.
Fixed: Dragging a file into the tracks window didn't always result in the effects slot for the track being setup properly for the file type dragged in.
Fixed: When inserting hard rest, and answering Yes to question about removing notes for the peg, it would remove notes from both clefs instead of the clef that the rest was inserted on.
Fixed: Potential access violation when deleting a note in staff window.
Fixed: Potential jukebox access violation if there were songs with the entire path of the filename being 256 characters or greater loaded into jukebox.
Fixed: Jukebox not playing the playlist in correct order in certain situations involving stopping/restarting, etc.
Fixed: When loading in a MusicXML file that has a specific guitar fretboard defined that matches one of our fretboards, the guitar tablature type will now be set for the notation.
Fixed: Ability to load in .MXL (compresssed musicXML file) as well as ability to load normal noncompressed musicXML file with the new .musicxml extension instead of just .XML.
Fixed: Hammer ons, pull offs, and slides are now being saved to MusicXML files.
Fixed: Exceptionally jittery timing indicator in the notation window during playback compared to older versions of RealBand.
Fixed: If the start of a generated section of a song didn't have a chord entered at the beginning of the section, then it could default to a C major chord instead of the most recent chord prior to the section.
Fixed: Potential access violation if song has micro-pegs and multiple notes on a peg.
Fixed: Accidental element that specified whether a note was displayed as sharp/flat wasn't eing saved to XML, even though the correct pitch of the note itself was saved.

RealBand 2019 Build 5 Update Available!

All RealBand 2019 for Windows customers can download the latest FREE patch update (build 5) here.

Summary of Changes in Build 5 (Oct 10)
Fixed: Sometimes the position of the VST/DX plugs window (even if not visible) would prevent a drop, such as into the drop station, from occurring.
Fixed: When batch converting files, the volume of some file types such as wav/mp3/wma/mp4, etc. would be too low.
Fixed: In Chords Window, you could not enter held chords on Piano track.
Fixed: LeadSheet might not display tied notes on the last bar of a track.
Fixed: Pressing "M" key in Editable Notation to insert a new note at the current time location on the Staff was inserting a duplicate note rather than inserting it above an existing note.

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