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A "friendly" (two way!) communication channel between users and developer(s) to discuss and test new features. For example, input/discussion/questions from/with developers on upper 10% of the popular requests. Teamwork! P.S. This is a wishlist request 
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Put in a request to be a BetaTester.
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Silvertones, I believe you missed main point I was trying to make. Maybe I was not clear. A two way communication on the most popular requests, between users and developers. Not just working for somebody who can use a free labor I am sure that I would volunteer to be a tester, if needed, for 3-5 items in BIAB that specifically interest me, but other than that, no way... Well maybe, if request will come from fellow member and would not require too much time., But I am not interested in testing random things for the company.
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I support your points, however, PG Music have unrestricted opportunity to participate with forum members at all levels. Given the relatively low interaction at a technical level with users, one can only assume that they don't always wish to follow that path, or have other methods to handle/resolve these issues. It is a matter for them.
Notwithstanding, +1
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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When PG Music needs information from users to solve a technical problem, they are very active and persistent. For example, a recent puzzling problem was affecting only a few users until they determined it was just those who have multiple monitors. Something like this took a lot of communication.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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A "friendly" (two way!) communication channel between users and developer(s) to discuss and test new features. You just described the beta testing process. Try to become one of you want. Otherwise what digital audio related product forum does that publicly? None that I know of. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Bob makes a good point. I don't know any other audio companies doing that for general users as opposed to beta testers, either. You can consider it fortunate if company representatives appear in the user forums. PG Music by comparison is outstanding at this.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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I guess, thank you for responses...
But I think I was pretty clear on the communication about upper 10% (most popular!) requests of this section of the forum.
Beta testing is a very broad term and does not apply directly to this request. More like a "tester on demand" for specific feature.(Uber tester?)
So, for example user says:
"I wish to have...more tracks in the mixer"
20 users respond positively to the request and possibly offering some variants of same core request...
Developer steps in and says: yes, we are working on it, but we need "x" volunteers to find bugs and test this particular feature on different machines. To participate please reply to email oooo@ooo.com with subject: Thread#5551212
To summarize, the beta-tester could be a random person who is specifically and genuinly interested in a particular feature and is willing to dedicate some time in testing it.
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Silvertones, I believe you missed main point I was trying to make. Maybe I was not clear. A two way communication on the most popular requests, between users and developers. Not just working for somebody who can use a free labor I am sure that I would volunteer to be a tester, if needed, for 3-5 items in BIAB that specifically interest me, but other than that, no way... Well maybe, if request will come from fellow member and would not require too much time., But I am not interested in testing random things for the company. If you had been presenting a technical issue you would have gotten what you're asking. The 4 people that responded are all Beta Testers.Thats pretty close.We are all very dedicated to the Co and users and pass along all issues to the developers. Like I and Bob said if you want to get closer volunteer to be a tester.
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A "friendly" (two way!) communication channel between users and developer(s) to discuss and test new features. For example, input/discussion/questions from/with developers on upper 10% of the popular requests. Teamwork! P.S. This is a wishlist request +1 This would help the product and the community. As someone mentioned though, PGM does not appear to be so interested in this approach. And of course, you got the usual batch of "everything is just fine already" comments!  FYI, I know of several companies that are far more interactive on their forums. They hear about the problems faster and get great ideas for enhancements from an engaged community. So your idea is a good one and it does work. Maybe not here though.
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 08/26/19 03:51 AM.
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There is a difference between explaining the way things are and defending them as "everything is just fine". Of course, more communication with the developers would always be nice. I just thought some may not be aware of what already does take place, and that info is needed to make informed decisions.
JohnJohnJohn, could you cite a few of the companies you feel are better models?
RustySpoon, there have been cases (I cited one recent one, above) where PG Music techs have communicated directly with users who report a specific problem and who are NOT beta testers. This isn't for new features as you mention, though, nor for the most requested items; that is done through beta testing. I don't know if a few users like you mention would be a large enough group to test one issue thoroughly. The beta tester group is quite a few users of varying expertise and equipment, and I think that's good.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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JohnJohnJohn, could you cite a few of the companies you feel are better models? The company that makes RapidComposer is a great example! Their public forum feels like a community and the devs are involved and engaged on a daily basis. The beta tester group is quite a few users of varying expertise and equipment, and I think that's good. I don't doubt that in the least but when the company only gives the beta test group a few days to test the new version, well, you get the 2019 VST! There is plenty of room for improvement here and a large group of knowledgeable fans of the product if only PGM would decide to fully leverage that resource.
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Matt and Bob.., I will add a few audio software companies to JohnJohnJohn's list that have a decent level of interaction with user base on tech level: Cakewalk, FabFilter, vArranger, Feelyoursound (Sundog studio) and I am sure many other companies that I do not know of With PG, I am confused... I am not sure if they care about what users think or want from the program or not. One thing is to test "troubled" items and another is to understand and implement popular request and work with that specific group who is willing to help test and shape that particular feature. General "beta testing" is very broad term. You do not hire an electrician to plant a garden, in similar way, you would not hire a gardener to fix faulty outlet. Probably a more proper title for my post should be: Targeted beta testing of the most popular items in wishlist. One way to implement this would be to have a check mark in the "wishlist" section of the forum (In every post!): "willing to beta test"... so if developers decide to make it happen, they would have a targeted list of users who are willing to donate their time to test this particular feature, that is if they want to keep the process anonymous. So good things can come to life, that is the goal
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That could work, no doubt.
One argument against it is that changing the program (such as adding a new feature) can have unintended consequences, and having many testers makes it more likely that potential problem would be discovered. What I’ve noticed in testing is that we all use the program differently. Otherwise PG Music wouldn’t need us at all.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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I guess I didn't understand the original intent of the O/P's post.
I can see opportunity for some positive outcomes, but also potential issues. If a volunteer beta tester takes on the role to test a new/improved feature, who tests everything else to check if something got broken along the way? Believe me, that kind of thing happens.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Well, sure the are core beta testers that are living among us but I am sure there are those who are willing to put time and effort into: Design, function and testing of very specific features they are interested in. If forces are joined, we might have a better overall program. I guess, ultimately it comes to the one(s) who make the decision on making a feature or not. My thought is that most popular requests should get priority / more attention. I was pleasantly surprised with 2019 update and I am hopeful that at least a few of BIG (and popular!) requests will be fulfilled in 2020 update
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2019 was the year of 64-bit. We can hope some of those requests can be addressed now.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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...but when the company only gives the beta test group a few days to test the new version, well, you get the 2019 VST! That's certainly true and it's not close to being there yet, imho. That tells me they probably worked this as hard as they could right up to the Christmas release deadline. We all can see they really needed another couple of months just to get it to where it now. Yes, that should have been done prior to release but whattayagonnado? Christmas is the big release and that's a drop dead date. I'm sure that was a bear and it's probably not any easier now. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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...but when the company only gives the beta test group a few days to test the new version, well, you get the 2019 VST! That's certainly true and it's not close to being there yet, imho. That tells me they probably worked this as hard as they could right up to the Christmas release deadline. We all can see they really needed another couple of months just to get it to where it now. Yes, that should have been done prior to release but whattayagonnado? Christmas is the big release and that's a drop dead date. I'm sure that was a bear and it's probably not any easier now. Bob I just hope they are not mostly done with it because of the Mac version and then...2020's 49 new features! 
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Well, since VST was mentioned, it makes a perfect point I was trying to make. The 64Bit was a huge move forward, but VST on the other hand was a big, but not among the most popular requests. I suspect it was more of a market strategy, which I can not blame PG music for. I believe, and this is only an opinion, that polishing and making interface more user friendly / ergonomic would have been a better choice to bring fresh blood into the loop in 2019 release. I was so frustrated with the interface when I started using BIAB that I almost gave up... and stayed only because I found help from many great members of this community. Numerous "NEW" advertised features with my initial purchase played a very little role when considering keeping the software or not. (32 bit and reading looong post about it was a bit scary ) What I found interesting, that most wish list requests fall into two categories. Either bugs/errors or features that in most part are in place and just need some form of tweaking and re-designing. Rarely something very complex. In many cases these requests are accompanied with some form of ideas or even solutions, not just "I want BIAB to cook breakfast for me" sort of thing. Back to original topic, I think it makes sense for a greater communication between developers and users on specific/ most popular requests and in turn, most likely more people would be willing to invest time in testing or participating in offering ideas at solving issues if their request or feature of interest is being fulfilled.
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Back to original topic, I think it makes sense for a greater communication between developers and users on specific/ most popular requests I understand that this is not about interaction between the developers and users on bug fixes, but on ensuring that new features work correctly prior to release. Again, I strongly support this suggestion. +1
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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I'm never going to dispute that more communication would be better.
I'll just point out that the VST Plugin was highly requested for many years. Not by that name, of course, but there have been requests to run 'BIAB Lite' from within a DAW going back many years. PG Music was responding directly to user requests on that one.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
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Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
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A few excerpts:
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Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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