Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Off-Topic
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 5,754
Veteran
OP Online Content
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 5,754
Hi Folks.
This probably fits a "recording" topic, but since it is an "opinion" question I will post it here.

I started experimenting with recording during my high-school years using stuff I could find at garage sales... which included a "demagnetized" head Sony tape deck with crackling outputs, Radioshack mics, bad cables and other fine relics. I was in and out of my music hobby. Last few years I decided to finally settle on the most convenient concept of home studio, that would be mobile, yet powerful and will not put me on bread and water for a few years. Overall, I am very happy with my setup and amazing software that is available either reasonably priced or free.

If I have to name one single thing that I am not happy with, it would be audio latency. Especially when recording vocals. I know, I know... there are ways to deal with it, such as using a button in Cakewalk that disables all FX from audio engine and a few other "tricks", but I am greedy and like to have all fun plugins and synths turned on, so I can hear whole picture when recording vocals and change things as I see fit on the fly, not post production smile (As most of you probably know that having a small buffer will make system unstable) This "latency" thing never happened with analog setups... This is not a nostalgic cry for vintage gear, just observation.

Curious to know, if somebody would be willing to share a single most annoying thing with digital (computer) recording.


P.S. A positive thought on my issue. I am guessing that with Audio 48k/24bit, as a standard...which stayed like this for quite some time now and with introduction of USB C (gen2)/ Thunderbolt 3 ports that is becoming THE port of choice, latency issue will become a non-issue relatively soon. I assume ASIO protocol will evolve too...

Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,797
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,797
This one is easy: clipping.

If you do analog recording, going over the limit on a VU meter might even be useful. But any digital distortion sounds dreadful.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Off-Topic
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 824
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 824
It's addictive.


Chris
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,169
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,169
We couldn’t do it back in the 70s.


HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home,
Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612
BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
Off-Topic
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,089
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,089
Originally Posted By: Teunis
We couldn’t do it back in the 70s.


Yeah, me too! I started out back then as well with a Sony reel to reel. Then went to four track cassette.

What a long way we have come!

Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114
Hi
Yes indeed had a lot of tape recorders in my time being in the hi fi trade including Ferograph, Vortexion, Brenell, Sony, Akai (with cross field biasing) and finally Revox. All great in their own right.

It is sad to think that I have just spent nearly£400 on a valve guitar amp because I love the analogue sound, but should I want to record it I will have to do so in the digital domain. Never mind I have some tape simulator plugins in Cakewalk.

There you go, I buy more and more powerful and faster PCs to improve things like latency, then get more and more plugins and add on bits and slow it down again.
Just go round in circles, but that’s life.

Mike


BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro
Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth
Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt

http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,797
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,797
Yep. Two track SONY tape deck in the mid-60s, four track TEAK with SOS in the early 70s.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,080
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,080
Since I use hardware synths, I don't have that latency problem.

My first tape deck was a Wollensak 3M and the last a Teac A3440.

Digital recording is much, much easier. Especially for editing and multi-tracking.

The most annoying thing to me is constant software updates, relearning where everything is because they moved and renamed functions, and eventuality that a new OS will render my DAW obsolete.

As Matt mentioned, going up to +3 on the VU meters in the tape days gave some nice saturation and kept the signal higher above the noise floor. Going a little higher than +3 increased the distortion but gradually so depending on what you were recording, you wouldn't hear the distortion. Going over 0 on a digital recorder immediately injects painful distortion and a need for a re-do.

Insights and incites by Notes


Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,114
Hi again Rustyspoon

Just had another thought re recording vocals without having to worry about Latency.

One answer would be to make your backing track on your main all singing dancing pc and software.

But record your vocals on another dedicated PC set up to just record vocals with some single program for just that purpose . (Do not put more programs on this pc than required to make recordings)
You would need to listen to your premade backing track via headphones from your main pc, while you do this of course, making sue that none of the backing sound gets into the clean vocal recording a vocal booth or bay made from soft board would help to keep out any other noises.
After that take the clean vocal to the main machine and sync up and mix.

This way you would be using your vocal PC just like a tape reorder and it wont suffer latency from having to handle the backing software and its plug ins at the same time,
as recording vocals.

Mike


BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro
Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth
Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt

http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,101
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,101
I have to agree with Matt. Clipping drives me crazy. If you come from a tape background it just makes it seem so much worse.


Keith
2024 Audiophile Windows 11 AMD RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,Cakewalk,Raven Mti
Off-Topic
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Back in the late 60s I removed the erase head from my reel to reel and could do an overdub once maybe twice on each track. Quality suffered but it was an experiment.


John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.wintertexaninfo.com/BANDS/JohnnyD.php
Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687
All this goes to what I've been saying for years and it's from personal experience.

You have to become that total computer nerd who is the one all your friends and family come to with their computer problems. That's just the start. Next you have to be immersed in digital audio because just knowing a PC and Windows in/out/backwards does squat for digital audio because that is probably less than 5% of the users of PC's and nobody understands it other than folks on forums like this one.

The folks who do digital audio well are full time pros in the biz. Studio owners, recording engineers, all those folks. Us users who have jobs, family obligations and all that happy stuff struggle all the time because we'll maybe spend a weekend on it, start to figure stuff out then life happens and we don't do it for two weeks and have to basically start over.

In spite of what we read in the blurbs about all the recording gear, DAW's, plugins, etc it's not easy and never will be. We need to remember there are full blown college courses in nothing but digital audio music production and they assume you're already very proficient with Windows and computers in general. In a related note, I read recently things to never put on a resume when applying for a job. One was to say you know Windows and Microsoft Office very well. Don't bother, it's now assumed EVERYBODY knows that. I know some here really do know all about that but lots of users here are at a pretty basic level when it comes to Windows.

For many of us it's like trying to learn a serious trade by watching some online vids and messing around with it 5 or 6 days a month. Ain't gonna happen fast that's for sure.

It's the old cliche: Everything's easy once you learn it.

Bob


Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13,977
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13,977
I often run my DAW Logic Pro X with multiple instances of Neutron 2, Nectar 2 and various Waves fx loaded - and also with BIaB open, Safari open, notes/messenger, etc., all with no latency issues. Why? Likely because I run 32 gb RAM. It’s cheap and took me about 10 minutes to install on my Mac. FWIW.

Bud

PS my recording started in an Atlanta studio in 1965 and continued off and on (more off than on smile ) until the present.

Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,797
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,797
Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
I often run Logic Pro X with multiple instances of Neutron 2, Nectar 2 and various Waves fx - and also with BIaB open, Safari open, notes/messenger, etc., with no latency issues. Why? Likely because I run 32 gb RAM. It’s cheap and took me about 10 minutes to install on my Mac. FWIW.

Bud
...

Yes, that much RAM is needed to run all those programs concurrently and well. But RAM isn't going to determine recording latency; that's a different solution.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13,977
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13,977
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
I often run Logic Pro X with multiple instances of Neutron 2, Nectar 2 and various Waves fx - and also with BIaB open, Safari open, notes/messenger, etc., with no latency issues. Why? Likely because I run 32 gb RAM. It’s cheap and took me about 10 minutes to install on my Mac. FWIW.

Bud
...

Yes, that much RAM is needed to run all those programs concurrently and well. But RAM isn't going to determine recording latency; that's a different solution.


Guess I thought more RAM = more buffer.

Bud

Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,797
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,797
Yes, that's part of it.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Off-Topic
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,056
C
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
C
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,056
<< For many of us it's like trying to learn a serious trade by watching some online vids and messing around with it 5 or 6 days a month. Ain't gonna happen fast that's for sure. It's the old cliché: Everything's easy once you learn it. >>


Exactly. That's why nearly 100% of the artists with any analog recording experience would immediately see an improvement in their recordings if they inserted a physical mixer/console into their recording chain. They would also enjoy an immediate 'freedom' from the enslavement mentality of a DAW and the enticement of the unlimited tracks that can be 'color coded' and bussed to a bus routed to a master bus that's so saturated a entirely different and additional software program has to be run to control clipping.


Anyone can learn the mechanics from front to back and beginning to end of any analog or hardware multitrack recorder in a day. With a DAW, if you learn how to split a track, do it once and come back tomorrow, can't remember the steps to do it without having to look it up again. Multiply that by a thousand techniques to get an idea of where you'll technically be a week into recording with a DAW versus running an analog mixer/console into an audio interface; with zero latency to boot... using on board effects with actual knobs and circuits that affect the sound authentically rather than simulation and zero load on the PC CPU... Bob (Jazzmammal) nailed it.


BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,475
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,475
The computer part


Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,797
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,797
I can run most audio software pretty well, including several DAWs. But when I record, I want to be 100% in performance mode so I use a pro studio and let an engineer work all the tech stuff out. It helps to understand fully what he is doing so our discussions and edits go faster, but it isn't critical.

And when I serve as a producer, then knowing both the performance aspect and the tech is a bonus, to facilitate communication between the artist and engineer.

I do come with a step ahead of most folks, having taught both computer science and music, but I concur that learning a DAW to a level you can produce professional results is no easy task.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Off-Topic
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Charlie that's an interesting comment. I don't do recording for CDs. I just play live. I use RB like an 8 track recorder. All the mixing and effects are done in the mixer.
8 tracks to 8 channels from RB,1 channel for vocals,1for bass and 2 for harmony. Total of 12 chanels.The only thing I use in RB is limiters on the 8 ports


John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.wintertexaninfo.com/BANDS/JohnnyD.php
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created a video to help you learn more about the Volume Automation options in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Volume Automation

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#volume-automation

Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created this short video to explain Audio Input Monitoring within Band-in-a-Box® 2024, and included some tips & troubleshooting details too!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Audio Input Monitoring

3:17: Tips
5:10: Troubleshooting

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#audio-input-monitoring

Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!

We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!

Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

New with the DAW Plugin Version 6.0, released with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows: the Reaper® Panel!

This new panel offers built-in specific support for the Reaper® DAW API allowing direct transfer of Band-in-a-Box® files to/from Reaper® tracks!

When you run the Plugin from Reaper®, there is a panel to set the following options:
-BB Track(s) to send: This allows you to select the Plugin tracks that will be sent Reaper.
-Destination Reaper Track: This lets you select the destination Reaper track to receive media content from the Plugin.
-At Bar: You can select a bar in Reaper where the Plugin tracks should be placed.
-Start Below Selected Track: This allows you to place the Plugin tracks below the destination Reaper track.
-Overwrite Reaper Track: You can overwrite previous content on the destination Reaper track.
-Move to Project Folder: With this option, you can move the Plugin tracks to the Reaper project folder.
-Send Reaper Instructions Enable this option to send the Reaper Instructions instead of rendering audio tracks, which is faster.
-Render Audio & Instructions: Enable this option to generate audio files and the Reaper instructions.
-Send Tracks After Generating: This allows the Plugin to automatically send tracks to Reaper after generating.
-Send Audio for MIDI Track: Enable this option to send rendered audio for MIDI tracks.
-Send RealCharts with Audio: If this option is enabled, Enable this option to send RealCharts with audio.

Check out this video highlighting the new Reaper®-specific features: Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Video

The new Band-in-a-Box VST DAW Plugin Verion 6 adds over 20 new features!

Watch the new features video to learn more: Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2024 - DAW Plugin Version 6 New Features

We also list these new features at www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.plugin.htm.

Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics81,391
Posts732,461
Members38,441
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
MIX-I-MUSIX 2.0, Ernest J, ingridguerci94, Izzy, BenChaz
38,441 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 195
Al-David 124
DC Ron 113
dcuny 87
rsdean 83
Today's Birthdays
CeeDee, SethMould
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5