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Yes, a hit song under the right circumstances. I think Janice did some of her best work on the harmony vocal. The drums have just the right amount of pop to them.

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Maybe music has come a long way since those demos days, or maybe Floyd is just a better producer, but the BIAB version is light years better--richer, deeper, more vibrant, more tonal, better produced.

I am not going to slam the other but it sounds kinda thin by comparison.

The 2019 version could be on the radio. I think it is awesome.

Yeah, Band in a Box with some mad skills plus some pipes can do the trick now.

smile

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Mr. Jane...

Only a Dad could've produced such a poignant pearl of a portrait of the vast and fathomless loving thoughts and feelings that parents have for their children. Wherever You Go sounds like a lullaby, really, with lyrics that are observant and nostalgic.

And, oh, those Real Tracks !!! Like a musical bed of flowers with the lyrics painted on each one of their colorful petals. Your singing voice has always been expressive, and full-hearted, Mr. Jane, but here, in this song, you sounded as though you were holding back emotions that threatened to overwhelm you. 'Moving' is the word, right ???

Ms. Janice, it was nice to listen to you harmonizing each tender word until it flickered and glowed like a little birthday candle. blush

Whoever is the subject of the song would be rendered speechless upon listening to it, as their gratitude ran silently down their cheeks.

Truly,

- bluage -

Last edited by bluage; 09/22/19 07:43 PM.

"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".
rayc #556127 09/23/19 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: rayc
Cool bit of history - the process as was & often still is.
The Nashville demo sounds like it was intended for the charts - big, brash & bright but the vocal lacks warmth - it was only a demo after all.
The BIAB version is more engaging, there's warmth and emotion. The harmonies are natural and sweet.
the only thing I'd take from the demo would be a touch more brightness as the BIAB seems a little sepia compared to the other's neon.
LOVELY stuff.


Ray - thanks for taking time to listen to both version (as so many did) and for the nice comments.

I agree that the Nashville demo is "big, brash & bright". It was designed to get the attention that it needed to get (quickly) to get interest for getting it recorded. (It is very well conceived, played, sung, produced). As I told Noel, I do feel that it a bit over-the-top bright and can be wearing on the ears (as several folks have noted).

I think "a little sepia" is a good description of my BIAB demo. Part of that is my choice of how to produce a "listenable" recording, but some of the less-than-bright comes from the "squash" that Soundcloud does. There is actually a 320 mp3 of it on the page with the Nashville demo (at the bottom) which if A/B'd with the Soundcloud version shows clearly that Soundcloud adds a "bit of dullness" to what we put there. (though I thought it was a bit much to ask folks to listen to yet another version....)

Thanks, again...


dcuny #556153 09/23/19 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: dcuny
I'm not gonna lie - I liked the "sheen" and production of the Nashville version. There were bits that seemed a better match in the Nashville version, like the climb into the first chorus.

Plus, louder is always better, right? wink

But... your vocals sold the song to me in a way the demo didn't, pulling harder on the heartstrings. And that's the most important part, because (to me) the really good songs evoke a strong emotional response.

There may be any number of reasons Reba passed on the song, but listening to both versions, I think lyrically the song tips a bit more to the male perspective. From the start:

the day you came into this world
was the proudest of my life


seems a bit more like something a guy would say. "Proud" isn't a word I've heard a mom use to describe childbirth.

Similarly,

i prayed to god to help me
teach you wrong from right


sounds (to me) like a dad sort of thing.

The POV just seemed a better fit with a male singer.

Then again, I'm from California, so what do I know about traditional values? grin

Love the story, excellent song. Thanks for posting this!


David - thanks for such a thoughtful review (as per your usual - I love reading your reviews).

It is understandable that some would go for the "sheen" of the Nashville version. I always liked it. But as I mentioned to Noel (who did not like that aspect) and Ray (who noted its intent), after many listen that over-the-top brightness wears on the ears - particularly if one is listening on good, "detailed" speakers...also provided one still has a good range to their hearing (when I hear mixes that include "brittle" cymbals I always wonder about the amount of hearing loss involved). You also pointed out the fact that it is LOUD. Those 2 qualities - loud and bright - were often the case with demos of that time - vying for attention with the ONE listen they would get... Uploading to Soundcloud dulled my version a bit (removing some high end) which can easily be heard by comparing the 320 mp3 of the song at the bottom of the Nashville demo page - though I did not expect people to do that, so did not mention it previously...I do produce a sound that is "rounder" and "smoother" and "not so bright" intentionally... And to further note, since the Nashville version IS louder, there is some automatic sense that that equates to "better" because one can hear the details more readily (not saying that it doesn't have more clarity, just noting the loud perception thing).

It has been interesting to me how large a percentage of people "preferred" my vocal for its "feeling". That is, of course, satisfying. Thanks.

Your "Dad POV" note was an awakening, I have to say. I have never thought about that. Definitely right. So obvious now that you have pointed that out. I wrote those lines from a Dad-point-of-view... so...duh...

Once again, thanks for your delightful, insightful review...



PeterF #556181 09/23/19 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: PeterF
floyd

Like the others I listened to both versions. Yours I found far more engaging than the Nashville demo.
Enjoyed the emotion in our voice and then Janice comes in! - great stuff.

The Nashville demo sounded big and bold but sort of washed over me.

Loved the story behind the song and the insights into the recording business back then.

Excellent song by the way - brought a lump to the throat.

Peter


Thank you Peter. This was a very special project for me.

Janice

Rob4580 #556369 09/25/19 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted By: Rob4580
I really enjoyed both versions but I like the Nashville version better.
Great story to accompany two great recordings.
Well done Floyd. Rob4580


Rob - thanks for stopping by for the listen(s)...

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Originally Posted By: BlueAttitude
Ok, I've listened to your BIAB version.

Just a wonderful song! One of your best vocals, sincere and emotive and great tone.

Band sounds great, drums are loud and proud.

And your mixes always make me strive to do better with my mixes.

Tip of the hat to Janice of course, always enjoy hearing her!

Now on to the studio demo ....



Originally Posted By: BlueAttitude
Wow! Tough call. That studio demo is very good indeed! Man, she can sing!

Overall I like the Nashville version better to be honest. They are both very good, just different.

Sounds like a hit to me.


Dave - thanks for taking the time to listen to both version (as most everyone did, which is nice).... And for giving reviews for both as you did. I'm pleased that it is a "tough call" - which seems the case across the board - which is a great endorsement of what is possible using BIAB to produce our songs (as you well know).

Scott C #556553 09/26/19 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted By: Scott C
Beautiful Floyd. Thank you for the story on recording the demo. Such an interesting process. It is such a wonder what makes a song a hit and how a person can become a star. The young lady that sang the song had a beautiful voice. This song lyric and with your other songs was just excellent. I liked both versions of the song. Well done..


Scott - thanks for taking the time to listen and for the nice comments...

Tangmo #556702 09/27/19 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: Tangmo
Thanks so much for the back-story. I wouldn't have stood a chance...even with a really fine song.

I had some trouble streaming the demo version, but what I heard, I didn't think the "band" was better. Perhaps the only place it was was in the fiddle opening quoting the vocal melody--something not so straight-forward easy to accomplish with RT's. Besides, once the durn thing is written, every version is a cover. Peter Jackson (film director) said his films were not finished until he sent them to the studio for distribution. There's a message in that for songs, I think.

I hope if the lady is not a star that she is still making a good living without the hazards of fame and the road. But truth be told, I thought your voice carried the song "better".

If you'll forgive me, I do have a couple of crits. First--I am not taken with the line "teach you wrong from right". Besides it being in reverse order to the way I've always heard the phrase, there is some loss of meaning in subtext, as well as hearing "teach you wrong" before the phrase is completed. Second, I think it was unnecessary to embellish the melody in the chorus with those added "up" notes at the end of certain phrases: "heart", "start", "know". Maybe you were aiming to not "resolve too often".

Of course, both of those 'crits' may be assuming you didn't carefully construct things that way. And if you did, you're right and I'm wrong.

Anyway, a fine way to spend some time this evening listening to FJ and Janice. Thanks.


Tangmo - thanks for this interesting review. Like the fact that I hadn't considered the point that David made about "proud", it had never occurred to me that there was anything wrong with "teach you wrong from right" - even as I wrote it. Nor did Danny or Bucky bring it up as needing "fixed". I can see your point, but not enough to feel that it might need to be changed...that might change from singer to singer, though. Your point about the melody choices for those words - well, that is just the way I write melody - it was not some trying-to-get-cute intention...seems pretty natural to me. We all hear things differently, of course. Thanks for the thinking points...

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Originally Posted By: musician17
Haha, sorry - I should have used my brains before making that silly AutoTune comment! The lady in the demo sounded wonderful - I hope I may be forgiven the comment given that she was so incredibly in tune! But, that said, I still prefer your version ... more real, to my ears at least, if that makes sense.

No problem, James... Again, I appreciate your kind words...

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Where have I been to miss this?!
This is an amazing song. For those who have kids who now live away from home it is SO poignant.
Your original is filled with sincerity and made me fill up.
The Demo, although beautiful and perfect in every Studio way possible was just that - a Demo. Give me "feelings" every time.
Best regards
Ian


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Originally Posted By: Robertkc
Originally Posted By: BlueAttitude
Ok, I've listened to your BIAB version.

Just a wonderful song! One of your best vocals, sincere and emotive and great tone.

Band sounds great, drums are loud and proud.

And your mixes always make me strive to do better with my mixes.

Tip of the hat to Janice of course, always enjoy hearing her!

Now on to the studio demo ....



Ditto that...Beautiful: the inspiration behind the song, the way love is expressed in the lyric and above all the warmth in your vocals.
Can`t imagine the demo will match how personal and sincere this sounds, but I`ll give it a play.

Robert
Originally Posted By: Robertkc
Floyd,
Your Nashville demo story is interesting and a little daunting.
Listening to your song done up this way completely changes it for me; the singer is obviously very good; I just didn`t feel anything when she sings the "I love you with all my heart" core bridge lines. The processing takes something away I guess, but there`s no substitute for the goosebumps you get when the singer digs deep to deliver, as you do.

Robert


Robert - thanks for taking the time to listen to both versions - and to comment on both. It has surprised me that so many "preferred" my own vocal - I did not expect that... that certainly is "heartwarming". I do appreciate it...

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Originally Posted By: JoanneCooper
Hey Floyd, Bud and Janice

Firstly, thank you so much for that write up on the process and for posting the Nashville demo. I am going to comment first and then go back and read all the other comments on this thread so I don't get influenced by what other people think.

This is so interesting and may I say, slightly depressing.

The song itself is a fantastic write and both your demo and the Nashville one are outstanding. Now for me, the thing is that if that what was happening in the 1990's can you just imagine what is happening now that everyone has access to a home studio? A single studio/musician with BIAB and access to a really great vocalist can churn out literally hundreds of high-quality tracks per day at ZERO cost. I suspect that these are the tracks that are being submitted to licensing opps on platforms such as Songtradr. I heard somewhere that people submit something like 200 tracks to a single licensing opp on songtradr!

Ironically, the tool (Band-in-a-Box) that has given us, on this forum, so much pleasure has also given self-motivated entrepreneurs the opportunity to do this (along with other tools such as Abbleton live).

Thanks again for posting this Floyd.



Thanks for stopping by for a listen, Joanne. Glad you liked the song.

There was potential to make "real money" from cuts - and HUGE money if one were to get radio play. (WAS being the operative word).
I haven't seen ANY reports of anyone making more than a few dollars (literally) from licensing opportunities. Seems like a lot more trouble than it is worth...

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Floyd, another masterpiece from you and Janice.

Masterfully crafted, perfectly delivered.

Thanks for the background to the song also.


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PeterF #557030 09/29/19 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: PeterF
floyd

Like the others I listened to both versions. Yours I found far more engaging than the Nashville demo.
Enjoyed the emotion in our voice and then Janice comes in! - great stuff.

The Nashville demo sounded big and bold but sort of washed over me.

Loved the story behind the song and the insights into the recording business back then.

Excellent song by the way - brought a lump to the throat.

Peter


Peter - don't think I could ask for a better review. Thanks!

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Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
Man, that's a great song. Excellent job on the co-write. And to be able to write with guys who have written other hits. That right there is a level of success many will never know.

Yes, absolutely spot on with the backstory on the skill level in Nashville. So much talent in one place, and only a few will ever be successful. Those studio cats are totally amazing and so skilled at their craft. Been there..... seen and heard amazing voices and instrumental talent singing in hole in the wall places on a "stage" that's hardly big enough to hold a chair and a music stand.

you are absolutely correct about the demo quality required. The demo has to be as good as (or better than) the final version the artist is going to record. I heard the "demo" version of another very popular group's #1 country hit at a LA songwriter symposium. Aside from the different vocalist, the rest would have fooled anyone. The licks and tone, tempo, instrumentation, was dead on. The artist copied the demo music exactly. Only the vocals and harmony let on that it was the artist version vs the demo.

OK, so I listened to your version first, as requested. Good job and yep, everything in it's right place. Next... the Nashville "demo".

The Nashville demo has my vote. A few reasons. First the sound quality of the mix is so open and crystal. Your version has more midrange and the instruments were not as distinct in the mix. Likely due to the mids. Next, the singer simply drew me in to the song. Yeah, I heard you singing and the words you were saying but.... I really "heard" the song when she sang it.

None of that is a slight to you or your skills. It simply shows that the mix quality and the singer one selects for a song is a major factor in how the song is heard by the audience. For the same reason 5 singers can cover the same great song and one of them you love and the others it's kind of meh.

We set here in our home studio, bedroom, attic, garage, basement, and try to write and record. Yes we have good tools. But truth is, we have a hard time at best trying to compete with the talent in the music capitals with experience and skills. One could try for a few lifetimes to write a hit song and never even get a "hold" in Nashville. It's a combination of having the skill, being in the right place at the right time, and having someone in the business to help you, and being there every day and night. For most of us, me included, I write for my own pleasure and my only competition is the last song I wrote. My goal is to write the next one better.

That said, there is still plenty of room in the business for less than superbly written songs and mixes that are not Nashville/LA raise the bar kinds of mixes. Film, TV, and other commercial uses are in need of music of all kinds and some actually specifically ask for lo-fi mixes.

In closing.... yes, I could hear Reba singing that song. The reasons songs get passed on vary and if you were in the final 100 or so songs in competition for Reba's newest CD project at the time...... that's a huge accomplishment. There's only room for 10 or so songs. Depending on Reba's clout at the time, she might not have had the lion's share of that decision. It still doesn't detract for the fact that you have a really well written song there that you can be proud to say... "I had a part in writing that".


Herb - thanks for having a listen. Glad you like it.

Let's clear up a few inaccuracies or misconceptions...
This caliber of player and singer won't be found playing in "hole in the wall" bars in Nashville. The fact is, there are almost no places with Country bands playing in or around Nashville. That is certainly the case for the last 30 years. There are a couple of small bars on Broadway for the tourists with bands crammed on small stages (Tootsie's being one of them). Those bands are typically fairly run-of-the-mill bands playing covers. If you are in town for a day or two, that is likely what you end up seeing...Quality bands don't come to Nashville to "make it". There is no place to do that. You do that in Texas or Oklahoma. There is one big bar in Printer's Alley that has a good band. And there are a couple of showcase clubs where there is an occasional one-off showcase for the record labels...a singer looking for a deal will gather some great musician (this caliber) for that, but it is not open to the public - invitation only, one show. (One of the better ones for that closed a few years ago - so those are drying up, too) There just simply are not places to hear Country music in Nashville. The Wildhorse, of course...those are touring stars... The local bar scene is mostly alternative rock bands...a bunch of good ones. The Rock scene in Nashville is good. The good news is you can find Songwriters Nights in a number of places.
Your point about the singer is arguable to the other side. Often, to "sell" a song (and get it cut) it is more important that the recording have the proper emotional impact - and not just be "slick". In this case at least half of the responders found the Nashville demo lacking the emotion that the song needs - and preferred my own reading of it. That emotion is crucial. My friend Tony Lane got a number of (big) cuts with simple demos - often little more than his vocal and guitar - because he is SO good at putting his songs across - soul-crushing emotion.
Reba (along with her husband) built a musical empire. She was one of the most powerful women in Nashville. No on ever told her what she could or couldn't do. She has been calling ALL the shots for most of her career.
Keep in mind you are comparing the sound of a Soundcloud processed 128 mp3 to a 320 mp3 (on my site). It ir really more about the high end being stripped that makes the the mid-range more predominant. The 320 version on my site (at the bottom) will show that if you are listening on good speakers. Though, no question the Nashville version is crystal clear.
Not sure what your point is about "room in the business for less than superbly written songs". That's not a place I would go or something I would encourage people to strive to.

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Floyd....

Yep, country music doesn't really live in Nashville anymore but they sure like to claim it does. I'm not going to argue the aspects of "making it" in Nashville or your friend Tony's success. I have heard several of his songs and they are great songs. Any decent demo would sell those songs. It's all about the song.

Quote:
Not sure what your point is about "room in the business for less than superbly written songs". That's not a place I would go or something I would encourage people to strive to.


Read the entire paragraph with that statement in it, again. I did in fact explain my comment.

In the end, you did, as I pointed out, write a really great song. Good job on that.


You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com

Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.

You can make excuses or you can make progress but you can't do both.
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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
FJ,
This is one of your best songs hands down. Lyrically, musically it just stands out!

Thank you for posting a story. That was a very interesting, enjoyable read! You managed to fit so much history behind the production neatly on one page smile

I listened to both versions. I can not compare them. They have very different vibe and sound. Both are very strong in their own unique way.

P.S. Excellent vocals from Janice!

Thank you for sharing!

Misha.


Misha - Thanks for the listens and the nice comments....


Originally Posted By: Deryk - PG Music
Wow - I think you did a great job on this! It s incredibly tender you are Janice knocked it out of the park with the harmonies. It is really powerful, and you can feel it in your bones. You can't get quite the same quality as the best in the biz, as you said, but I think you did a fantastic rendition here.

Great work and thanks for sharing smile


Thanks, Deryk...

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Originally Posted By: Crossroads
Dear Floyd,

you've heard a number of my songs over the past months, and having heard them I'm sure you would not claim that sentimentality must be one of my main character traits. And it's true: emotions - yes, a lot. But sentimentality - well, so so... And being like that there is a thin line between what I (I!!!) consider schmalzy (the dictionary explains this as "dishonestly emotional) and honestly emotional songs.

The topic you chose with this song could be easily have slipped over that line, but this really never happens to you: Whatever emotional subject you write about. it's always touching in the purest sense - be it autobiographical or not: It makes me feel that it is.

Another great FJ song, as to lyrics and composition - no doubt about that.

And if a live and a BIAB version of the same song must get compared, it depends which one will be the better one: My songs will sound much better being 'built' in BIAB, others (like this one) may have been recorded by such excellent musicians that BIAB will always be second.

But even then: I listened to your BIAB version first and thought it was great in all aspects. Then I listemed to the 'real' one and, yes, one can feel that there are real people singing and playing their hearts out and that surely makes a difference..

I only can say that I liked both versions a lot.

Take care,

Stefan


Stefan - thanks for the thoughtful review...

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-Start Below Selected Track: This allows you to place the Plugin tracks below the destination Reaper track.
-Overwrite Reaper Track: You can overwrite previous content on the destination Reaper track.
-Move to Project Folder: With this option, you can move the Plugin tracks to the Reaper project folder.
-Send Reaper Instructions Enable this option to send the Reaper Instructions instead of rendering audio tracks, which is faster.
-Render Audio & Instructions: Enable this option to generate audio files and the Reaper instructions.
-Send Tracks After Generating: This allows the Plugin to automatically send tracks to Reaper after generating.
-Send Audio for MIDI Track: Enable this option to send rendered audio for MIDI tracks.
-Send RealCharts with Audio: If this option is enabled, Enable this option to send RealCharts with audio.

Check out this video highlighting the new Reaper®-specific features: Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Video

The new Band-in-a-Box VST DAW Plugin Verion 6 adds over 20 new features!

Watch the new features video to learn more: Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2024 - DAW Plugin Version 6 New Features

We also list these new features at www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.plugin.htm.

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