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#555026 - 09/16/19 12:14 AM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 2692
Loc: South Africa
JoanneCooper Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 2692
Loc: South Africa
Hey Floyd, Bud and Janice

Firstly, thank you so much for that write up on the process and for posting the Nashville demo. I am going to comment first and then go back and read all the other comments on this thread so I don't get influenced by what other people think.

This is so interesting and may I say, slightly depressing.

The song itself is a fantastic write and both your demo and the Nashville one are outstanding. Now for me, the thing is that if that what was happening in the 1990's can you just imagine what is happening now that everyone has access to a home studio? A single studio/musician with BIAB and access to a really great vocalist can churn out literally hundreds of high-quality tracks per day at ZERO cost. I suspect that these are the tracks that are being submitted to licensing opps on platforms such as Songtradr. I heard somewhere that people submit something like 200 tracks to a single licensing opp on songtradr!

Ironically, the tool (Band-in-a-Box) that has given us, on this forum, so much pleasure has also given self-motivated entrepreneurs the opportunity to do this (along with other tools such as Abbleton live).

Thanks again for posting this Floyd.

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#555031 - 09/16/19 12:53 AM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 12/06/03
Posts: 4488
Loc: Sydney Australia
PeterF Offline
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Registered: 12/06/03
Posts: 4488
Loc: Sydney Australia
floyd

Like the others I listened to both versions. Yours I found far more engaging than the Nashville demo.
Enjoyed the emotion in our voice and then Janice comes in! - great stuff.

The Nashville demo sounded big and bold but sort of washed over me.

Loved the story behind the song and the insights into the recording business back then.

Excellent song by the way - brought a lump to the throat.

Peter

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#555075 - 09/16/19 09:04 AM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: rsdean]
Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9672
Loc: Florida
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9672
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: rsdean
Floyd,

A great backstory on this song. What an interesting history it has had.

I listened to both versions and can honestly say that I prefer your rendition. The demo is excellent, but does not have the warmth and feeling that you and Janice put into this version.

The song itself is really outstanding. Listening to you perform it it, I could hear this on an Alan Jackson record.

I'm surprised it was never picked up - it is so good.

Loved it!

Bob


Bob - really appreciate that fine review! Thanks...

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#555085 - 09/16/19 11:56 AM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 7844
Guitarhacker Offline
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Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 7844
Man, that's a great song. Excellent job on the co-write. And to be able to write with guys who have written other hits. That right there is a level of success many will never know.

Yes, absolutely spot on with the backstory on the skill level in Nashville. So much talent in one place, and only a few will ever be successful. Those studio cats are totally amazing and so skilled at their craft. Been there..... seen and heard amazing voices and instrumental talent singing in hole in the wall places on a "stage" that's hardly big enough to hold a chair and a music stand.

you are absolutely correct about the demo quality required. The demo has to be as good as (or better than) the final version the artist is going to record. I heard the "demo" version of another very popular group's #1 country hit at a LA songwriter symposium. Aside from the different vocalist, the rest would have fooled anyone. The licks and tone, tempo, instrumentation, was dead on. The artist copied the demo music exactly. Only the vocals and harmony let on that it was the artist version vs the demo.

OK, so I listened to your version first, as requested. Good job and yep, everything in it's right place. Next... the Nashville "demo".

The Nashville demo has my vote. A few reasons. First the sound quality of the mix is so open and crystal. Your version has more midrange and the instruments were not as distinct in the mix. Likely due to the mids. Next, the singer simply drew me in to the song. Yeah, I heard you singing and the words you were saying but.... I really "heard" the song when she sang it.

None of that is a slight to you or your skills. It simply shows that the mix quality and the singer one selects for a song is a major factor in how the song is heard by the audience. For the same reason 5 singers can cover the same great song and one of them you love and the others it's kind of meh.

We set here in our home studio, bedroom, attic, garage, basement, and try to write and record. Yes we have good tools. But truth is, we have a hard time at best trying to compete with the talent in the music capitals with experience and skills. One could try for a few lifetimes to write a hit song and never even get a "hold" in Nashville. It's a combination of having the skill, being in the right place at the right time, and having someone in the business to help you, and being there every day and night. For most of us, me included, I write for my own pleasure and my only competition is the last song I wrote. My goal is to write the next one better.

That said, there is still plenty of room in the business for less than superbly written songs and mixes that are not Nashville/LA raise the bar kinds of mixes. Film, TV, and other commercial uses are in need of music of all kinds and some actually specifically ask for lo-fi mixes.

In closing.... yes, I could hear Reba singing that song. The reasons songs get passed on vary and if you were in the final 100 or so songs in competition for Reba's newest CD project at the time...... that's a huge accomplishment. There's only room for 10 or so songs. Depending on Reba's clout at the time, she might not have had the lion's share of that decision. It still doesn't detract for the fact that you have a really well written song there that you can be proud to say... "I had a part in writing that".
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Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.


As the sword chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer.

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#555116 - 09/16/19 04:38 PM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 3213
Rustyspoon# Online   content
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Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 3213
FJ,
This is one of your best songs hands down. Lyrically, musically it just stands out!

Thank you for posting a story. That was a very interesting, enjoyable read! You managed to fit so much history behind the production neatly on one page smile

I listened to both versions. I can not compare them. They have very different vibe and sound. Both are very strong in their own unique way.

P.S. Excellent vocals from Janice!

Thank you for sharing!

Misha.

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#555154 - 09/17/19 05:39 AM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 02/15/17
Posts: 3414
Deryk - PG Music Offline
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Registered: 02/15/17
Posts: 3414
Wow - I think you did a great job on this! It s incredibly tender you are Janice knocked it out of the park with the harmonies. It is really powerful, and you can feel it in your bones. You can't get quite the same quality as the best in the biz, as you said, but I think you did a fantastic rendition here.

Great work and thanks for sharing smile
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Cheers,
Deryk

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#555165 - 09/17/19 07:31 AM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 1565
Loc: Germany
Crossroads Offline
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Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 1565
Loc: Germany
Dear Floyd,

you've heard a number of my songs over the past months, and having heard them I'm sure you would not claim that sentimentality must be one of my main character traits. And it's true: emotions - yes, a lot. But sentimentality - well, so so... And being like that there is a thin line between what I (I!!!) consider schmalzy (the dictionary explains this as "dishonestly emotional) and honestly emotional songs.

The topic you chose with this song could be easily have slipped over that line, but this really never happens to you: Whatever emotional subject you write about. it's always touching in the purest sense - be it autobiographical or not: It makes me feel that it is.

Another great FJ song, as to lyrics and composition - no doubt about that.

And if a live and a BIAB version of the same song must get compared, it depends which one will be the better one: My songs will sound much better being 'built' in BIAB, others (like this one) may have been recorded by such excellent musicians that BIAB will always be second.

But even then: I listened to your BIAB version first and thought it was great in all aspects. Then I listemed to the 'real' one and, yes, one can feel that there are real people singing and playing their hearts out and that surely makes a difference..

I only can say that I liked both versions a lot.

Take care,

Stefan

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#555204 - 09/17/19 12:58 PM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: Marty Ricciotti]
Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9672
Loc: Florida
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9672
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Marty Ricciotti
Amazing story Floyd. I've been enjoying your work for a while now. Loved the "little bit of me" video showing the whole process of how it gets done.
Thanks for all the info about how the demo process works. Really makes you appreciate what BIAB can do.

I listened to both songs and frankly did not really like the Nashville version. The drums have too much reverb or stadium sound.

Really liked your vocal a lot better.
From the video I notice that you turn your head to the side of the mic. Does that help you get your mellow tones?
Really enjoy your music.


Marty - thanks for taking the time to listen to both versions. It is nice to have you prefer my vocal...

Glad you enjoyed the video, too... Regarding the mic: Turning at an angle to the mic helps to keep from having "plosives" as I sing (not using a pop screen) and also keeps from getting the vocal too hot when I sing high (and loud) - I will turn away a bit more.... So it is for "control", not "tone". The mic I use - an AT4033a - has a deep warm tone - it's quite a "mellow" mic... Had it for about 25 years now...

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#555275 - 09/17/19 09:13 PM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 04/02/19
Posts: 564
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Leon1 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/02/19
Posts: 564
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Enjoyed both versions, Floyd, as well as the background story. Personally, I think the song is well suited to a female singer (and the woman on the Nashville demo is very good indeed). A shame that Reba passed on it.
Regards,
Leon

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#555277 - 09/17/19 10:38 PM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 4119
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
dani48 Offline
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Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 4119
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
Hi, Floyd !

This is simply your best !
Love everything about it !


Cheers
Dani

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#555311 - 09/18/19 05:39 AM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: Robertkc]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 10974
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
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Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 10974
Loc: GA USA
Originally Posted By: BlueAttitude
Ok, I've listened to your BIAB version.

Just a wonderful song! One of your best vocals, sincere and emotive and great tone.

Band sounds great, drums are loud and proud.

And your mixes always make me strive to do better with my mixes.

Tip of the hat to Janice of course, always enjoy hearing her!

Now on to the studio demo ....



Thank you Dave. It was a small part on a big song!

Janice
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#555344 - 09/18/19 08:09 AM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 06/17/10
Posts: 1981
Loc: Canyon Lake, TX
Steve Young Offline
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Registered: 06/17/10
Posts: 1981
Loc: Canyon Lake, TX
Wow! I did listen to both versions. Both were excellent. I can see why some will like your new version, and some will prefer the "Nashville" version. Both very well crafted. You have really learned how to milk it all out of BB. Well done! (By the way, once again, you and Janice shine on this one!)

I really appreciate your backstory. Exciting times, being around such a wealth of talent, and business savvy. Also shows how competitive and challenging that scene is/was. You really have to keep your center. I salute you for following your dreams, and for the success you have had.

And I really appreciate us having you on this forum. So many talented people on the forum,it is challenging (and probably dangerous) to acknowledge one over another, but you are among the ones who constantly raise the bar for all of us. And that makes all of us better for it.

Really love this song!

Steve


Edited by Steve Young (09/18/19 08:11 AM)
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Music
"In order to compose, all you need to do is remember a tune that nobody else has thought of." - Robert Schumann

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#555376 - 09/18/19 02:18 PM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 1486
Loc: Maryland
TuneMonger Online   content
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Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 1486
Loc: Maryland
Wow, what a story, especially for those of us sitting at our little desktop studios. I often think about Emily Dickinson and how she wasn't published in her lifetime and could easily have gotten missed in the dustpiles of history. How many songwriters have experienced the same thing? Hopefully not many. Maybe this song would've been a hit if RM had heard it on a good day. I wonder.
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#555484 - 09/19/19 07:09 AM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: edshaw]
Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9672
Loc: Florida
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9672
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: edshaw
Just a couple of thoughts. Before the demo: You killed it. You gave Dad a place in the music he rarely receives in this present climate. The sincerity of the delivery and the lyrics were out of this world.
After the demo. Reba? Thoughtful of you, but no, the female listeners want to be told they can pilot jet fighters, not have kids. When the subject of children comes up, they'd rather talk about pain of childbirth or how little junior is going to be the next great voice. Very risky for a female to take the chance riling up the (you know what) base. In this day and age, it is the men who press for children and family; unless of course you are talking about the social butterflies, always up for another kid. This would be a great song for, say, someone in the George Strait organization. I know Bubba writes, but don't know that he performs. But that is the idea. That is the zip code. Dallas based might be more fruitful than Nashville based. New York or Los Angeles, forget it. That would not be a good career move for any talent based out of there. By the same token, your own demo was way better. Incidentally, God is still capitalized in Tennesee.
That song bleeds traditional values and exceptional masculinity, which could be the key to who you present it to and how you present it. Vince Gill? He would know. Buddy Green, rocker turned Christian artist? On that note, maybe you have a crossover on your hands -- Amy Grant, or, like I say, Buddy Green. Check out his songs on You Tube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73-6P09xaAE
Following my reasoning? If you are interested in discussing that aspect, please call.



Thanks for your thoughts, ed...

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#555500 - 09/19/19 09:18 AM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 11/29/06
Posts: 2465
Loc: Finland
jannesan Offline
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Registered: 11/29/06
Posts: 2465
Loc: Finland
I like the simplicity of the arrangement in the BIAB version, it feels more sincere. In the demo I like the stronger contrast between the verse and chorus, giving true wings for the story. Nice lyrics and good vocals on both versions.

Janne
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#555644 - 09/20/19 05:00 AM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: Tangmo]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 10974
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
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Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 10974
Loc: GA USA
Originally Posted By: Tangmo
Thanks so much for the back-story. I wouldn't have stood a chance...even with a really fine song.

I had some trouble streaming the demo version, but what I heard, I didn't think the "band" was better. Perhaps the only place it was was in the fiddle opening quoting the vocal melody--something not so straight-forward easy to accomplish with RT's. Besides, once the durn thing is written, every version is a cover. Peter Jackson (film director) said his films were not finished until he sent them to the studio for distribution. There's a message in that for songs, I think.

I hope if the lady is not a star that she is still making a good living without the hazards of fame and the road. But truth be told, I thought your voice carried the song "better".

If you'll forgive me, I do have a couple of crits. First--I am not taken with the line "teach you wrong from right". Besides it being in reverse order to the way I've always heard the phrase, there is some loss of meaning in subtext, as well as hearing "teach you wrong" before the phrase is completed. Second, I think it was unnecessary to embellish the melody in the chorus with those added "up" notes at the end of certain phrases: "heart", "start", "know". Maybe you were aiming to not "resolve too often".

Of course, both of those 'crits' may be assuming you didn't carefully construct things that way. And if you did, you're right and I'm wrong.

Anyway, a fine way to spend some time this evening listening to FJ and Janice. Thanks.


Thanks for mentioning the harmony!

Janice
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#555716 - 09/20/19 03:36 PM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 05/16/17
Posts: 1630
beatmaster Offline
Expert

Registered: 05/16/17
Posts: 1630
Floyd/ Janice

I enjoyed my listen , brilliant vocals guys and mix and arrangement.

As Expected.

I never listened to the Nashville one why ?.

Their is no way on gods earth we will get a full studio sound in home recordings , Damn near ..or in my opinion closer to the way I want to hear music now.. as we do hear Talent on the scale of producing, performing, arranging, production, writing, Mixing, mastering, creativity.


Now Why Would I want To Compare Eh !!!

I'm listening, Waiting for your reply congrats !.

Thanks
_________________________
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https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases


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#555768 - 09/20/19 10:09 PM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 04/23/18
Posts: 1135
Loc: Mill Valley, California USA
Deej56 Offline
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Registered: 04/23/18
Posts: 1135
Loc: Mill Valley, California USA
Floyd,

Listened to the BIAB version first—real pretty tune and stellar BIAB production . . . you couldn’t ask more of a pro demo. And a terrific vocal, btw. If I had on comment on the suggestion is that the kick on the drum seems a bit too strong . . . for me, at least . . . perhaps a slight bit of compression on it? Just a thought (use or lose), as you know my talents on mix are woefully lacking.

Then I listened to the Nashville Demo . . . well, it’s really, really clean and accentuated by just a killer vocal . . . and perfectly flawless. Real, real pretty . . . and deserving of radio play, no doubt.

And, yeah, it’s clearly a step above the BIAB version . . . BUT . . . for ordinary folks, you make a great point about the value of BIAB: “Your first demo using Band-In-A-Box will cost you about the same as a single Nashville demo (one song). BUT every one after that.... costs $0. ZERO!”

Ain’t that the truth . . . I’m just a newbie to the software, but the more I hear and the little more I learn, it makes me appreciate just how incredible this software is. Thanks BIAB for making it, and thank you Floyd for showing us all song after song just how good it can make us all sound.

My best to you,

Deej

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#555959 - 09/22/19 11:11 AM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 12/21/13
Posts: 6458
Loc: Davis, CA
Greg Johnson Offline
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Registered: 12/21/13
Posts: 6458
Loc: Davis, CA
WOW!!! This one brought a tear to my eye.....which is the greatest compliment I can give!! So sweet!! As a father of two teens who are approaching the age when they will set out on their own, this song means a lot to me. The vocal is just gorgeous......maybe your best Floyd, which is no small accomplishment! And Janice is as good of a harmony singer as I have ever heard (lead singer too!). ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!!!! BIAB Hall of famer for sure!! Take care my friend. Greg

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#555985 - 09/22/19 12:49 PM [User Showcase] Re: Wherever You Go [Re: Noel96]
Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9672
Loc: Florida
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9672
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Noel96
Hi floyd,

This is a wonderful write and listening to you and Janice singing it gave me goosebumps and a tonne of images of my own children when they were young flooded through my mind.

I really liked the song format that you used... verse, chorus, bridge, chorus. It's not usual but it can be very effective as you've shown us all in this creation.

Some of the words and phrases that came to mind as I listened were: poignant, bittersweet, so glad you came along, I'm proud of you, life is worth the journey, heartfelt, touching. I really like where your singing and your songwriting took me smile

Now I'm off to listen to the demo.

All the best,
Noel


Noel - I am glad that this resonated with you. I have been surprised that so few people even mentioned the subject matter of the song. I figured you would pick up on the unusual structure of the write...

Quote:

P.S. OK... now I've listened to the Nashville demo. I much prefer your version and listening to you and Janice. There is a noticeable amount of 'brilliance' created by high frequencies in the Nashville version that wasn't friendly to my ears because it's not what I'm used to hearing. Your version had a richness and warmth to the overall tone that the Nashville version did not. I suspect that if Nashville re-did this demo today, it would sound more aligned to your presentation.


I think you hit this one "on the head". I know that some people prefer the "sheen" of the Nashville demo, but I agree, it has far too much "brilliance" to the sound, and repeated listens really fatigues the ears. It's "just too much". It does make it "stand out" when compared against a "warmer mix" - and that was likely intentional at the time. These demos were heard by those searching for songs to record for their next record - against several others - all vying for attention - in that one listen that it would get looking to get place on the pile of "second listens". That over-done sheen was a necessity. But that is not how current music is presented "to the public" in current recordings - streaming, CDs, whatever recording might be listen to... I think you described all of that perfectly. Thanks!

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