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#559935 - 10/20/19 09:29 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Your Loudness Penalty
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 8938
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
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I assume most folks have familiarized themselves with the myriad opinions around how loud to master. And if you have then you've certainly run into the LUFS discussions. The ones that make your head spin!

The streaming sites all have their protocols but for me there seems to be a misconception that you should master loudness levels specifically for streaming (or even for a specific site). If you are too loud they are gonna reduce your level. And it's that simple. Now if you have slammed your mix to the ceiling, i.e., the wave form looks like a 2x4, that's another issue. But if your mix retains dynamics yet is loud and you like it then according to some pretty knowledgeable folks that's OK. Why? Because when you upload it will be bumped down or up in db's and that is not going to deteriorate the quality of the track...caveat: as I understand it smile

If you are curious just drag one of your mixes to this site. It will not upload your file and will do a very rapid analysis and let you know how much several of the major streaming platforms would raise or lower the loudness of your production.

https://www.loudnesspenalty.com

I write this FULLY realizing that some folks will differ. smile

Bud

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#559936 - 10/20/19 10:26 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 2004
Loc: Midwest
HearToLearn Offline
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Wow! What a cool share! Thanks Bud!
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#559938 - 10/20/19 10:35 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 2004
Loc: Midwest
HearToLearn Offline
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So I pulled in a track (professionally mixed and mastered) of something I always thought was WAY too hot. I can hear distortion in the finals. This is a major label release to the public. Crazy!

This specific song is "Move" by Luke Bryan.


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Edited by HearToLearn (10/20/19 10:37 AM)
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C.Aaron Madison
I often get asked how to pronounce my name.
"Ma-Duh-Sn" J/K wink
As people have left the "." out so many times, "Caaron" has become the norm of it. Still said as the "." was there though. smile


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#559939 - 10/20/19 10:38 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 12/05/11
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Janice & Bud Offline
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Whoa that is loud. I selected several of ours that I’ve long considered “too” loud. However they were all pulled down only 2-3db.

Bud

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#559941 - 10/20/19 10:55 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 10/09/16
Posts: 971
Loc: Central Ohio
edshaw Offline
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Registered: 10/09/16
Posts: 971
Loc: Central Ohio
Woweee. Thanks for that, Bud. Just the thing for me.

PS: OK, so I received flat bar for You Tube and the other, and a -1.9 for Spotify. If that means what I think, then my work is starting to pay off.
Still, I have ask, what if the track is to quiet? That's been my problem, not loud enough. Do you happen to know?

PSPS: Wait, I think I see. I did another and it came out +1.3
on Spotify. Say, that Spotify is a picky one, hey?

No Soundcloud....???


Edited by edshaw (10/22/19 07:37 AM)
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#559958 - 10/20/19 12:04 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20174
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
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Bud, I really like this. Great tip; thanks for sharing.

I tested some of my rough composer's drafts, and they are coming in pretty much on the button, though Spotify alone turns them down a tiny bit. My mastered CDs are all a bit hot for some of the services, around zero for others. That's exactly what I had expected.

This program takes some of the guesswork away from INDIVIDUAL services, assuming the algorithm of this program is correct. I knew about a little of the game YouTube is playing, and Pandora, but not the others - it was a mystery.

They have this as a $49 Plugin, too: https://www.meterplugs.com/loudness-penalty I'm getting it.

The same company has a few other products, too, for similar purposes. I use their Dynameter, which gives a different visual perspective to a mix.
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#560156 - 10/21/19 04:57 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 1851
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
sslechta Online   happy
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Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 1851
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
Thanks for the info Bud and Matt.....

Checked the "Paradox of You" song I worked last year and was pretty close. Ozone mastering really helps nail it down.


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#560206 - 10/22/19 02:39 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 3261
Loc: Ontario, Canada
BlueAttitude Offline
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Registered: 11/30/07
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Loc: Ontario, Canada
Great find, Bud!

I just ran my latest through it, not too bad I think:


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#560321 - 10/22/19 04:26 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16566
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
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Hi Bud,

Thanks for this. It's excellent to see how the wav I upload to Soundcloud compares. Below is my latest song "The Day You Stepped Into My Life".

I take it to mean that the below values indicate that if I upload to any of the sites listed, what I hear at home here should be reasonably close to what I hear on the site after the upload (since loudness adjustment is minimal). If that's the case, it's good to know that I'm on the right track smile


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#560369 - 10/23/19 03:15 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 3261
Loc: Ontario, Canada
BlueAttitude Offline
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Registered: 11/30/07
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Interesting, Noel!

I assume the "0' you got for iTunes mean they won't touch the level. But I wonder what the "--" means?

EDIT: The "--" means it won't be touched. The "0" for iTunes means it probably won't be touched, but for iTunes they state "iTunes penalties are rough estimates"


Edited by BlueAttitude (10/23/19 04:50 AM)
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#560493 - 10/23/19 09:17 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16566
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
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Thanks, Dave. I appreciate the added information.
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#561781 - 10/31/19 12:21 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 7002
Guitarhacker Offline
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What does it mean when it says -27dB?


Oh wait.... -2.7dB.... much better I think.


Most of the ones I tested from my list.... all fall in the -1 to -3 dB range across the board..... except one hit -5dB on one of the target sites.
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