You need to be logged in to post
Options
Index
#559935 - 10/20/19 09:29 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Your Loudness Penalty
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 8027
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 8027
Loc: GA USA
I assume most folks have familiarized themselves with the myriad opinions around how loud to master. And if you have then you've certainly run into the LUFS discussions. The ones that make your head spin!

The streaming sites all have their protocols but for me there seems to be a misconception that you should master loudness levels specifically for streaming (or even for a specific site). If you are too loud they are gonna reduce your level. And it's that simple. Now if you have slammed your mix to the ceiling, i.e., the wave form looks like a 2x4, that's another issue. But if your mix retains dynamics yet is loud and you like it then according to some pretty knowledgeable folks that's OK. Why? Because when you upload it will be bumped down or up in db's and that is not going to deteriorate the quality of the track...caveat: as I understand it smile

If you are curious just drag one of your mixes to this site. It will not upload your file and will do a very rapid analysis and let you know how much several of the major streaming platforms would raise or lower the loudness of your production.

https://www.loudnesspenalty.com

I write this FULLY realizing that some folks will differ. smile

Bud

Bud
_________________________


Check out our BiaB SoundCloud songs!
J&B YouTube Sampler
J&B Website
Our album "All Over The Map" is on Apple Music, Spotify and others.

Top
#559936 - 10/20/19 10:26 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 1853
Loc: Midwest
HearToLearn Offline
Expert

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 1853
Loc: Midwest
Wow! What a cool share! Thanks Bud!
_________________________
-If life gives you melons,
You may be dyslexic.
Like em.
(Author Known)

Top
#559938 - 10/20/19 10:35 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 1853
Loc: Midwest
HearToLearn Offline
Expert

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 1853
Loc: Midwest
So I pulled in a track (professionally mixed and mastered) of something I always thought was WAY too hot. I can hear distortion in the finals. This is a major label release to the public. Crazy!

This specific song is "Move" by Luke Bryan.


Attachments
Move Level Example.jpg




Edited by HearToLearn (10/20/19 10:37 AM)
_________________________
-If life gives you melons,
You may be dyslexic.
Like em.
(Author Known)

Top
#559939 - 10/20/19 10:38 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 8027
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 8027
Loc: GA USA
Whoa that is loud. I selected several of ours that I’ve long considered “too” loud. However they were all pulled down only 2-3db.

Bud
_________________________


Check out our BiaB SoundCloud songs!
J&B YouTube Sampler
J&B Website
Our album "All Over The Map" is on Apple Music, Spotify and others.

Top
#559941 - 10/20/19 10:55 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 10/09/16
Posts: 790
Loc: Central Ohio
edshaw Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 10/09/16
Posts: 790
Loc: Central Ohio
Woweee. Thanks for that, Bud. Just the thing for me.

PS: OK, so I received flat bar for You Tube and the other, and a -1.9 for Spotify. If that means what I think, then my work is starting to pay off.
Still, I have ask, what if the track is to quiet? That's been my problem, not loud enough. Do you happen to know?

PSPS: Wait, I think I see. I did another and it came out +1.3
on Spotify. Say, that Spotify is a picky one, hey?

No Soundcloud....???


Edited by edshaw (10/22/19 07:37 AM)
_________________________
Biab for WIN 2018
Win 10 64bit
Reaper
TASCAM Digital deck

Top
#559958 - 10/20/19 12:04 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19315
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19315
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Bud, I really like this. Great tip; thanks for sharing.

I tested some of my rough composer's drafts, and they are coming in pretty much on the button, though Spotify alone turns them down a tiny bit. My mastered CDs are all a bit hot for some of the services, around zero for others. That's exactly what I had expected.

This program takes some of the guesswork away from INDIVIDUAL services, assuming the algorithm of this program is correct. I knew about a little of the game YouTube is playing, and Pandora, but not the others - it was a mystery.

They have this as a $49 Plugin, too: https://www.meterplugs.com/loudness-penalty I'm getting it.

The same company has a few other products, too, for similar purposes. I use their Dynameter, which gives a different visual perspective to a mix.
_________________________
BIAB 2020 Win Audiophile; [& 2019 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#560156 - 10/21/19 04:57 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 1682
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
sslechta Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 1682
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
Thanks for the info Bud and Matt.....

Checked the "Paradox of You" song I worked last year and was pretty close. Ozone mastering really helps nail it down.


Attachments
Untitled.jpg


_________________________


Steve

BIAB/RB 2018, Pro Tools 2019, Korg N5, Proteus F/X, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: 1 TB SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory

Top
#560206 - 10/22/19 02:39 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 2721
Loc: Ontario, Canada
BlueAttitude Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 2721
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Great find, Bud!

I just ran my latest through it, not too bad I think:


Attachments
htu.jpg


_________________________
Dave

Blue Attitude Website

Top
#560321 - 10/22/19 04:26 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15761
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15761
Loc: Australia
Hi Bud,

Thanks for this. It's excellent to see how the wav I upload to Soundcloud compares. Below is my latest song "The Day You Stepped Into My Life".

I take it to mean that the below values indicate that if I upload to any of the sites listed, what I hear at home here should be reasonably close to what I hear on the site after the upload (since loudness adjustment is minimal). If that's the case, it's good to know that I'm on the right track smile


Attachments
the day you stepped into my life - loudness analysis.JPG


_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#560369 - 10/23/19 03:15 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 2721
Loc: Ontario, Canada
BlueAttitude Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 2721
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Interesting, Noel!

I assume the "0' you got for iTunes mean they won't touch the level. But I wonder what the "--" means?

EDIT: The "--" means it won't be touched. The "0" for iTunes means it probably won't be touched, but for iTunes they state "iTunes penalties are rough estimates"


Edited by BlueAttitude (10/23/19 04:50 AM)
_________________________
Dave

Blue Attitude Website

Top
#560493 - 10/23/19 09:17 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15761
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15761
Loc: Australia
Thanks, Dave. I appreciate the added information.
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#561781 - 10/31/19 12:21 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Your Loudness Penalty [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 6665
Guitarhacker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 6665
What does it mean when it says -27dB?


Oh wait.... -2.7dB.... much better I think.


Most of the ones I tested from my list.... all fall in the -1 to -3 dB range across the board..... except one hit -5dB on one of the target sites.
_________________________
You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com

Add nothing that adds nothing to the music

Top


PG Music News
New! Loops-with-Style PAK 1 for Band-in-a-Box®!

A brand-new Band-in-a-Box Add-on is HERE!

Loops-with-Style PAK 1 for Band-in-a-Box® 2019 (and higher) expands your loops collection with 100 new loops! Click here to watch our video demonstration.

We've taken the RealDrums and RealTracks source audio and remixed, remastered, and combined it to create these original loops. All of your favorite genres are covered, like jazz, funk, rock, pop, electronic, hip-hop, and more! To show them in action, we've created 50 new RealStyles that each include two of the loops. Plus, if you use the loops in Band-in-a-Box, we've included intelligent versions of the loops that automatically switch at A and B part markers. Each loop has a matching sister loop that works perfectly for another substyle!

ON SALE UNTIL DECEMBER 31st!

Save over 30% when you purchase during our special - add Loops-with-Style PAK 1 to your collection today for just $19!

Click here for more information. Mac user? This new Add-on works for you too! Click here for Mac.

Video - 202 New RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows®!

With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2020, we've added 202 new RealTracks! These include great Americana, Gospel Vocals, new Blues, Country Pollwinners, Bossa Flute/Horn sections, Jazz Blues and Rhythm Changes, British and Hazy '60s guitars, Modern Funk, Island Grooves with steel drum and marimba, Singer-Songwriter, and more!

Get the newest RealTracks Sets 329-352 when you purchase the PlusPAK upgrade (ideal for 2019 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+ customers) for just $99 during our special (reg. $129).

Want the entire RealTracks collection with over 2,900 RealTracks? They are included with any Band-in-a-Box 2020 for Windows UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

Check out this video, which demonstrates the newest RealTracks Sets 329-352.

New Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac Add-ons are Here!

Just released for Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac: Xtra Styles PAK 8 and Loops-with-Style PAK 1!

We've added 164 fantastic new RealStyles in Xtra Styles PAK 8! These are imaginative new combinations of our existing RealTracks library that fall into four categories: Rock/Pop 8, Jazz 8, Country 8, and Celtic 1. To celebrate the release of Xtra Styles PAK 8, ALL of our Xtra Styles PAKs 1-8 are on sale for just $29 each! Learn more & listen to demos here.

Also brand-new is our Loops-with-Style PAK 1 for Band-in-a-Box®, which gives you the chance to expand your loops collection with 100 new loops! We've taken the RealDrums and RealTracks source audio and remixed, remastered, and combined it to create these original loops. All of your favorite genres are covered like jazz, funk, rock, pop, electronic, hip-hop, and more! To show them in action, we've created 50 new RealStyles that each include two of the loops. Plus, if you use the loops in Band-in-a-Box, we've included intelligent versions of the loops that automatically switch at A and B part markers. Each loop has a matching sister loop that works perfectly for another substyle! Get started with Loops-with-Style PAK 1 for the introductory price of just $19 until December 31st (reg: $29). Learn more & watch a great video demonstration here.

Note: Xtra Styles PAK 8 and Loops-with-Style PAK 1 require the Band-in-a-Box® 2019 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

Video - Band-in-a-Box® 2020 - Everything you need to know in under 6 minutes!* (plus the 49-PAK!)

It's HERE! Take a quick tour of the just-released Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows when you check out our latest video:
Band-in-a-Box® 2020 - Everything you need to know in under 6 minutes!* (plus the 49-PAK!)


Read more about this new version here, and check out our amazing upgrade pricing (up to 50% off during our special!) here!

Great New Content in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows®!

Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows is here! Limited Time Special Offers Until December 31, 2019 - SAVE up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® version 2020 for Windows Upgrade packages... and that's not all! When you buy version 2020 for Windows before December 31, 2019, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE!

Band-in-a-Box® 2020, Band-in-a-Box® VST DAW Plugin 2020 and RealBand 2020 - Over 50 new features!
- We have information about the program here.
- Specific information about the features is here.
- Ordering and info about the pacakages and pricing is available here.

Plus, there is a HUGE amount of new content...
- 202 new RealTracks, description and audio demos: click here.
- Xtra Styles Set 8 for Band-in-a-Box®, (description and video demos): Learn more...
- Loops-with-Style Set 1 for Band-in-a-Box®: product description and video demo.
- Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Learn more...
- Bonus 49 Pak (with 40 RealTracks)! Learn more...
- 2 new MIDI SuperTrack Sets - Learn more...
- 280 Drums RealCharts (previously had only 22, now have transcriptions for half of all of the 600 audio RealDrums)
- 5 Instrumental Studies Sets - Learn more...
- Two new all MIDI styles sets "Look-Ma! More MIDI" Sets 3 and 4 (30 MIDI styles) audio demos: Learn more...

Plus,the Online (or PDF) manual for the full program, or just the new features, are available here.

RealBand 2020 is Here!

RealBand 2020 is here, and is included free with Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows!

There are over 20 additions to RealBand, including intelligent Audio-Harmonies (1-4 voice), Scrub Mode, mixer enhancements, open MusicXML .musicxml and .xml, easier transpose, RealTracks, RealDrums sound improvements, and more!

RealBand 2020 New Features include:

Darker Grid Lines
Grid lines in Tracks and Audio Edit windows are drawn in a darker color instead of white.

Auto-hide Grid Lines
RealBand will auto-hide grid lines when they are within a certain number of pixels of each other.

Audio Scrub Mode
The new audio scrub button in the Audio Edit window lets you click and drag to hear a section of audio.

Shift key for moving multiple volume sliders and pan knobs
If moving a volume slider while pressing the Shift key, then any other selected tracks' sliders will also move. This applies to Tracks and Mixer windows.

...and more!

For the complete list of new features included in RealBand 2020, click here, and choose the "RealBand 2020" Tab.

Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows - Upgrade Today to Save Up to 50%!

Just released: Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows with over 50 new features, 202 New RealTracks, new RealStyles, 15 new MIDI SuperTracks, 170 new Instrumental Studies, 30 new MIDI Styles, 280 RealDrums Transcriptions, the 2020 Free Bonus PAK, 2020 49-PAK, and new Xtra Styles PAK 8!

We're having a SALE on Band-in-a-Box® 2020 Upgrade purchases until December 31, 2019 - save up to 50% when you purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows Upgrade!

We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some amazing Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Windows 2020 packages, but for more even more Add-ons (including 40 Unreleased RealTracks) upgrade it to the 2020 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.

Check out our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.

Learn more about all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows at: www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.new.htm

If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!

Forum Stats
30549 Members
65 Forums
61306 Topics
517467 Posts

Max Online: 2434 @ 11/14/17 12:37 AM
Newest Members
jamestoffee, MATTIAS_Y, Sfroje, AdilAbdullah, MarcA

30548 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
VideoTrack 305
Matt Finley 240
Pipeline 187
Noel96 170
MarioD 149
Torrey Bliss 140
PeterGannon 139
Jim 127
jford 121
Janice & Bud 117
Today's Birthdays
ED PLOCKI, Prissíla Garcia