If someone said the key is A# and I had to read the music I would be pretty lost....3 double sharps and 5 sharps. Why would anyone want to do that? How would Bb sound any different?
None of this matters for me on guitar if I don't have to sight read something.
Cheers,
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
I sort of assumed as much and I never have seen anything written in A#.I have seen a few double sharps written which always seemed very strange.But under some conditions it is better just to keep quite....lol
Sometimes strange things happen. Many years ago I use to play with a piano player who played just about everything in C#. I never knew just why. He was a old blues player. https://youtu.be/w8jQX4ptLHk at about 2:50 you can see his typical style.
I have also played with Albert Collins who tuned his guitar in a very strange way. Open F minor F,C,F,Ab,C,F and used a capo at fret 5,6,7. I first met Albert at Lightnin Hopkins house. I think they were first cousins.
After all these years I am now trying to learn to finger pick like Lightnin. Perhaps I will get it down if I live a few more years.
Cheers,
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
Wow! He sure looks like he knows what he's doing. Is that you on guitar?
Believe it or not, C# major is a pretty comfortable key to play on the piano. It uses all the black notes with F and C as the only white notes -- technically they're E# and B# but that's a theory thing.
The reason the key C# sits so well under the fingers is because the hands are positioned over black notes and it makes getting both black and white keys pretty easy.
If you ever get to see the movie, "Wrecking Crew", there is a place where the musicians are reminiscing about recording with Frank Sinatra. Glen Campbell states "Strangers In The Night" was played in B minor and then asks the question, "Who sings or plays in B minor?" Funny piece.
I write quite a few pieces in Bb, the equivalent of A#, because many horns are tuned to Bb or Eb. It makes it easier for the horn players. Also, Bb, Eb and F sound really sweet to my ears. I also sing (to the limited degree that I can sing) many songs in Bb (A#) or in F.
I'm not an educated musician ... fully self-taught. So, technically, there may be a difference between A# and Bb. On the guitar, they're the same thing as far as the performance factor.
Just curious Billy, why this question in the first place? Do you have some sheet music written in A#? Same with your question about the piano playing in C#. It's not C# it's Db which is known as the gospel key. There are tons of YT vids about how to play gospel piano and they're all in Db. Stevie Ray Vaughn was famous for tuning his guitars down to Eb making most of his big hits in Eb and Ab. Tricky to play on keyboards unless you've had some schooling in those keys for rock/blues piano. Reese Wynans had no problem with it. He smokes his solos in those keys on organ and piano.
Did you see the video posted in another thread about why F# is the best key for guitar? They explain it very well. I didn't know that many famous rock songs must be in F# for guitar or your hand position and fingering are all wrong for those famous licks. They gave example after example of this. They showed if you move it to F or G those signature rock licks are almost impossible to play, it has to be F#.
This is all about musical schooling whether self taught or formal. If you're a monster player like Glen Campbell was he may joke about playing in Bm but was it a problem for him? Oh, hell no. Guys like that can play anything in any key and that's what it's all about if you want to be a real player. Keys don't matter at all.
Hi Bob, I was looking up something else on the internet and ran across some stuff about A# major. I looked at an A# major scale and was a bit perplexed. A long time ago someone gave me a three foot stack of classical sheet music. I remember seeing something in A# I think. I know that there is a Chopin piece in A# minor... Chopin - Polonaise in A# minor.
Walter told me he was going to play in C# the first time we played together. I knew nothing about the piano at the time. This was blues and there certainly was no sheet music involved. I knew how to play in C, sort of, and just moved it up a half step. Well...I knew a few licks and knew what a 1/4/5 was. All this was fifty plus years ago.
If you don't get some proper musical education at a young age it may take you years to learn stuff. Fifty years ago C# seemed like something really strange. Today it is just another key for me.
I have a little more technical literacy now days but the more I get exposed to people who are really educated the more I find out how little I really know.
If a guitar player is trying to replicate certain songs, that can only be done in the original key. Sure a good guitar player can do most things in any key but it will not sound like the original in many cases.
I play in Bb Ab and Eb all the time for many reasons...sometimes just to make it easy on the horn players. Really good horn players don't care what the key is anymore than you and I do.
There are certain keys and certain scales and certain instruments commonly used in certain styles of music....no harmonica in rap for the most part ...lol
If we were in Houston tonight and went to a blues jam we would be playing in E, A, G, Bb or perhaps Am or Em 99% of the time.
I never really considered the F# thing...got to go look that up, although at first glance other than guitar players who generally don't get bothered by the key, writing something with six sharps sounds to much like work...lol. I play in F# minor a lot because it is the relative minor of A major.
I come here to ask questions because there are people who actually know the answers.
Cheers,
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
If I am writing something and start it out on the piano that is normally in C major or minor for me or perhaps F major. Those are just really the easy keys for me to think in.
If I start out on the guitar it could be in any key.
I often change the key because I thank it sounds better.
The biggest reason for me to change keys is to make things better for the vocalist.
Cheers,
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
Fortunately that was not me in the video.Jerry was someone I knew and played with a time or two.
Jerry Lightfoot, Texas blues-rock guitarist and songwriter, died at the age of 55 on September 19, 2006 from an aneurysm caused from a head injury sustained from falling down or being assaulted at an Austin, Texas motel.
Walter died in 2012 at 95.
There are only three people from the old days who I have played with who are still alive. Buddy Guy, Taj Mahal, and Tanya Richardson.
That fact makes me feel very alone sometimes.
Cheers,
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
Why would you play in A#? Because it’s written in A#.
A better question is, who would write that?
My instruments are pitched in C, Eb, F, G, A and Bb. I have to get used to thinking enharmonically sometimes, but I can still wish the composer used the better choice of Bb.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Here's the F# video I talked about. The guys start off almost acting drunk and goofy but then they start showing good examples of famous tunes in F# and how they really can't be played in another key. I totally agree nobody plays in those keys at blues/rock jams and that was me too back in the 60's but as time went on and I started working with good players I learned I had to get my chops up in all keys.
That is very logical about the feel. I "assume" when any blind person starts to play they could use the C# key to establish hand position on the piano to play in any key. Actually any black key would work.
A piano player is much more likely to need to play a piano that is provided on site than a guitar player. At home the piano player's bench is most likely in the same position providing less need to know where you are in relation to the key board.
I find I can hear a note or chord from youtube looking at my computer and reach over to my piano on the right side of me and play the note without looking most of the time. If I hear a note I can not tell you the note name most of the time but I know where that note is on the piano or guitar.
I lived in France for a couple of years but never ran across your guy, well that I remember anyway. I may have seen him as I have been to many Johnny Hallyday shows.
Sight is a wonderful thing, but it can also be distracting when playing.
Cheers,
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
Matt Finley...you always have these pragmatic answers to questions...lol
Yes....I agree, if it is written in A# major as a professional you need to figure out how to play it.
I also don't think just because something is difficult to do is a good reason not to do it.
I also know some very difficult things can be done that I and most people would never do. One of the top professional archer in the world has no arms and shoots with his feet.
Making horn players play in certain keys makes life difficult for them. Good musicians are knowledgeable and considerate of the people they play with. They do what ever they can to accommodate the team. Contrary to the way some musicians act, music is a team sport.
Cheers,
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
The F# video was informative. I just never thought about it. It is pretty rare to play song after song in the same key. It would be a little hard to make the connection without someone pointing it out. As a guitar player, it is rare to sight read very much, so the actual name of the key is not so important.
For me I find it unnatural to play in a key other than the original recording. I have listen to the song on tape or CD or the radio a thousand times then the band wants or needs to play it in another key. This happens most of the time to accommodate the vocalist or because the keyboard player or guitar player is not use to playing in that key.
The key of C and it's relative minor is by far the most common key across all music. Many of the examples in the video used "power chords" which would be hard to do in the same way in F for example. F# lends itself to a certain style of rock.
There were some important concepts expressed in the video so now I want to go play and think in F# to try it out.
Thanks for posting.
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
Making horn players play in certain keys makes life difficult for them. Good musicians are knowledgeable and considerate of the people they play with. They do what ever they can to accommodate the team. Contrary to the way some musicians act, music is a team sport.
Cheers,
Billy
Funny. Music is a team sport until you run into THAT vocalist who insists it can ONLY be done in that one key.
Uh, OK.
That's when you find out if your chops are in good shape.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
I have always played in guitar bands for a living. E concert is F# on the tenor sax. I like that key on the sax better than I do Bb and Eb concert (the keys that the older generation of sax players preferred). Not that C and F on the tenor are hard, it's just that F# fits my hands better - probably due to the years I spent with guitarists. I like A concert (B tenor) for the same reason.
When Leilani and I work out a song, we find the best key for the vocalist. If it's in a seldom played key we move it a half step either direction. That way if my brother-in-law sits in with us, he doesn't have to negotiate tricky keys on music we don't even have a chart for.
But sometimes it doesn't sound good a half step away. We do one song in C# because it sounded duller in both C or D. I don't know why, but it's not the first song that did that.
Another in B for the same reason. I don't mind, and if my B-I-L sits in we just don't do those songs.
We don't let anyone sit in because we use backing tracks. B-I-L is the go-to person if someone wants a trio. But we haven't even done that in years.
Our first concern is for the song to sound good. After that the comfort of the players comes next.
On the guitar it's easy to change keys, on the sax, flute, wind synth, and keyboard it's more of a challenge. But every time you get something, you lose something. While it's much easier to transpose on the guitar, it's more difficult to read music on that instrument. I guess that's the payback for easy transposition.
The webmaster told the apprentice designer, "Just because you have 800 fonts does not mean that you are required to use every one of them." In the same vein, one concert master instructs his students not to practice anything they do not intend to perform. For guitar, the Hal Leonard series is gradually squeezing out the Mel Bay Method. 1) Sight reading principles 2) The notes on each string, one at a time, with simple melodies in CMaj as students go along 3) Learning popular and blues chords, major and minor 4) Introducing additional popular keys, G-A-E. 5) Barre chords, tabs, additional keys such as FMaj. That sequence is pretty much the one professional teachers are following, today. Yet, if you look at YouTube instruction, there's little resemblance. Much of what we see on you tube guitar is movable pentatonic scale patterns. The emphasis is on creativity and on learning a system that permits playing in any key by way of learning the roots and movable patterns. Same principle as learning once very popular movable barre chords. Doesn't this pretty much describe the way things are today?
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