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#568877 - 12/05/19 03:48 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Bar to Bar Regeneration
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Pipeline Offline
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I'm one to work out lots of different ways of doing things as some like the new Biab 2020 MutiRiffs and some would prefer bar to bar regeneration as some prefer ReWire to the BB Plugin and some would prefer RealBand or the Biab Lite® (C:\bb\BBPlugin\Files\Band-in-a-Box DAW Plugin Standalone.exe).

Originally Posted By: Pipeline

I posted this Biab MultiRiffs an Easier Way
as I just thought they may have had technical issues with it as the tracks are in RAM and nothing had been done for years ?

But you would think they could just regenerated the track data for that section (the same data that is saved in the SGU as there is no audio data, so it will have the source address for each bar/half bar RTXXX, file ac0641.wav, time, transpose amount) paste replace that data in the BB track then save that data to RAM replacing the existing track in RAM.
(that's why you can change frozen tracks to normal or Direct Input just by replacing the source file)
Sure you wouldn't have 7 to choose from but you just select the bar/s and track > Regenerate Select Bars on Selected track,
you play
if you like it then keep it
else goto Regenerate


Does that make any sense ?
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#568918 - 12/05/19 08:16 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar to Bar Regeneration [Re: Pipeline]
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JohnJohnJohn Offline
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+1

I just wanna tag onto Pipeline's suggestion with my understanding of how this should work. I was really hopeful that Multiriffs implemented in BIAB would be more like Realband.

1) I freeze my track and then select only the bar(s) I wish to regenerate
2) I click the regenerate button and BIAB gives me one or more different RealTrack riffs to replace the bars I chose
3) If I like the replacement I click OK and it is immediately integrated into my track inside BIAB with no external files for me to deal with
4) At this point I am back in BIAB and my track has had the selected bars replaced with the chosen riffs and I can save it like any normal BIAB file

This approach would be efficient and effective. It would not require the use of a DAW or any extra WAV files. There would be NO comping required by me of any type since BIAB would be doing the integration. It is a super clean result with a track just like BIAB always generates but with me having selected the riffs for certain bars.

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#568964 - 12/06/19 05:57 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar to Bar Regeneration [Re: Pipeline]
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MusicStudent Offline
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Oh what the heck. +1

Edited
On second thought I want want to withdraw my +1. Can I do that? crazy

What John3x is proposing is no different than "selective bar freeze". This item has been on the wish list for ages. We don't need a new wish item when you can find this request over and over again here in the forum.


Edited by MusicStudent (12/06/19 10:39 AM)
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#568965 - 12/06/19 06:15 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar to Bar Regeneration [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
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MarioD Offline
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+1

A BIG +1 for John3's idea.
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#569270 - 12/07/19 09:12 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar to Bar Regeneration [Re: MarioD]
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VideoTrack Online   content
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Originally Posted By: MarioD
+1

A BIG +1 for John3's idea.

Another big +1 for JJJ's idea.

That's how I think the fundamental multi-riff feature should operate. Exporting/track bouncing/DAW operation would be additional features.
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#569284 - 12/07/19 11:14 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar to Bar Regeneration [Re: MusicStudent]
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JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
Oh what the heck. +1

Edited
On second thought I want want to withdraw my +1. Can I do that? crazy

What John3x is proposing is no different than "selective bar freeze". This item has been on the wish list for ages. We don't need a new wish item when you can find this request over and over again here in the forum.

OK! Dan's idea is even better. And should be MUCH easier to implement. And would solve the MultiRiff problem 100%. Just to be sure I understand, here is what I think Dan means!

1) I select the track I wish to work on
2) I freeze that track and then select the bar(s) I wish to unfreeze
3) I click the (new) Regenerate Riff(s) button and BIAB regenerates whatever is unfrozen leaving what is frozen alone (on the track I selected only; all other tracks are unaffected)
4) at this point BIAB freezes my entire track but leaves the changed bars selected
5) If I like the replacement I simply save my song
6) if I don't like the new section I just keep clicking regenerate until I do

OMG, this is exactly how this should be implemented! I don't need MultiRiffs or extra WAV files or a DAW or anything! I just need to unfreeze some bars and click regen until I like the result. And it should be super fast since it is only regenerating a portion of the song and likely on a single track.

PGM, please redo this as described! There is literally NO benefit to the more complicated current MultiRiff solution.


Edited by JohnJohnJohn (12/07/19 11:22 PM)

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#569287 - 12/08/19 12:30 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar to Bar Regeneration [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
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Pipeline Offline
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Same thing, bar to bar you suggested does that, you select the bar/s and track then re-gen without having to select freeze.


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#572978 - 12/29/19 12:48 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar to Bar Regeneration [Re: Pipeline]
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Originally Posted By: Pipeline
Same thing, bar to bar you suggested does that, you select the bar/s and track then re-gen without having to select freeze.
That's exactly what I want in BIAB.
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#573031 - 12/29/19 03:47 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar to Bar Regeneration [Re: Pipeline]
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Rustyspoon# Offline
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Folks, I am confused about "bar to bar" regeneration.
I understand the concept BUT,
When I started using BIAB, a forum member mentioned this. I do not remember exact wording but it went something like this:
With any change in chords, shots, number of bars, music line can change in unexpected places. Meaning you change something in a bar 50, bar 3 can play totally different stuff than it was playing before that change. That is true.

Sometimes I feel that BIAB arrangement is like a live slippery snake, that I have to hold tight smile Does this idea of Bar-to bar regeneration preserves the rest of the bars Before/After regenerated region?

Thank you.

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#573040 - 12/29/19 04:59 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar to Bar Regeneration [Re: Rustyspoon#]
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Charlie Fogle Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Folks, I am confused about "bar to bar" regeneration.
I understand the concept BUT,
When I started using BIAB, a forum member mentioned this. I do not remember exact wording but it went something like this:
With any change in chords, shots, number of bars, music line can change in unexpected places. Meaning you change something in a bar 50, bar 3 can play totally different stuff than it was playing before that change. That is true.

Sometimes I feel that BIAB arrangement is like a live slippery snake, that I have to hold tight smile Does this idea of Bar-to bar regeneration preserves the rest of the bars Before/After regenerated region?

Thank you.


The BIAB generation concept is that an entire track regenerates, so yes, you can lose music you really like and want to keep. That is why you hear the discussion of Freezing tracks and only generating selected bars and not affecting other portions of a track.
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#573042 - 12/29/19 05:32 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar to Bar Regeneration [Re: Pipeline]
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Rustyspoon# Offline
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Charlie,
ohh I do get freeze selected bars part smile
Ok, How about this workflow? :

As a default all track are "semi-frozen" / have initial generation. When you change something at particular bar, it regenerates only that part automatically, leaving everything else in place.

If you want a larger section re-generated, you just select bars you want to re-generate, right click and it would have a menu: regenerate selected.

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#573060 - 12/29/19 06:53 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar to Bar Regeneration [Re: Pipeline]
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Matt Finley Online   content
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The change in bar 3 from a change in bar 50 is not causation. It’s somewhat correlated but somewhat random.
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#573063 - 12/29/19 07:14 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar to Bar Regeneration [Re: Pipeline]
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Rustyspoon# Offline
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Matt,
That is exactly why I feel the randomness has to be allowed by choice and not enforced.

Meaning, if changes do not work well, you will still be able to grab the block as you wanted initially without making 100 copies of every change.

Then, of course there should be a mechanism to de-frost everything and turn arrangement back to Jello state.

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#573622 - 01/01/20 08:44 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar to Bar Regeneration [Re: Pipeline]
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jazzmammal Offline
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When I read all these different ways to do this I think you guys are missing a very important point. A fundamental, primary reason Biab is better than prerecorded midi files is it gives you a slightly different performance every time you regenerate the song. Of course the whole track is generated, not just a few bars. It's advertised as the closest you can get to having real musicians in your living room because real players will slightly change things up every time they play a song. Peter has written about this many times. This point is always someone's answer to the question why do you bring a laptop running Biab to the gig and not convert your Biab arrangements to MP3's? They want that variety so the song is not a static karaoke file.

This is the original and foundational reason for the creation of Biab in the first place. To NOT have a program that creates static tracks. Again, I point you to Real Band. It was designed to do all these often repeated requests for things that Biab can't do.

This is like planning for a boy baby, you get one and years later deciding you really wanted a girl. Oh, wait...

Bob
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#573636 - 01/01/20 11:41 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar to Bar Regeneration [Re: Pipeline]
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Matt Finley Online   content
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Regenerating part of a track is the only reason I might use RealBand. IF BIAB had this feature, I could finish a song while staying in BIAB. Since the technology already exists, I would appreciate having it in BIAB.
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#573661 - 01/02/20 05:26 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar to Bar Regeneration [Re: Matt Finley]
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JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Regenerating part of a track is the only reason I might use RealBand. IF BIAB had this feature, I could finish a song while staying in BIAB. Since the technology already exists, I would appreciate having it in BIAB.

Yes! I agree!

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#573673 - 01/02/20 06:17 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar to Bar Regeneration [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
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MarioD Offline
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Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Regenerating part of a track is the only reason I might use RealBand. IF BIAB had this feature, I could finish a song while staying in BIAB. Since the technology already exists, I would appreciate having it in BIAB.

Yes! I agree!


I agree also.
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#573687 - 01/02/20 07:24 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar to Bar Regeneration [Re: jazzmammal]
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JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
When I read all these different ways to do this I think you guys are missing a very important point. A fundamental, primary reason Biab is better than prerecorded midi files is it gives you a slightly different performance every time you regenerate the song. Of course the whole track is generated, not just a few bars. It's advertised as the closest you can get to having real musicians in your living room because real players will slightly change things up every time they play a song. Peter has written about this many times. This point is always someone's answer to the question why do you bring a laptop running Biab to the gig and not convert your Biab arrangements to MP3's? They want that variety so the song is not a static karaoke file.

This is the original and foundational reason for the creation of Biab in the first place. To NOT have a program that creates static tracks. Again, I point you to Real Band. It was designed to do all these often repeated requests for things that Biab can't do.

This is like planning for a boy baby, you get one and years later deciding you really wanted a girl. Oh, wait...

Bob

You incorrectly assume that all BIAB users perform with it as a karaoke machine. Nope. I would never use it that way. I'm using it to produce recorded tracks.

And anyway, your description of BIAB always playing something different isn't a benefit, rather, it is one of the main problems in an actual crummy band...the guys can't remember their parts and always play things different when you (and the listeners) want them to play it the same!

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#573724 - 01/02/20 11:23 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar to Bar Regeneration [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
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Pipeline Offline
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Okay then that's settled, so what are we talking about a January implementation ??
I don't think we want to wait another year !
So what would be the best way ?
Select/Highlight the bar/s then a right click menu
"Regenerate Selected Bars All Tracks "
"Regenerate Selected Bars >
> Bass RT684 Bass, Electric....
> Drums RealDrums RockHardEven8..
> Guitar 1 RT 522 Guitar, Acoustic....
> UserTrack 1 Guitar, Nylon, Fingerpicking....

Or would it be from the Top track menus and Mixer menus ?

Or All of the above ?

Would you have
"Return to Original Generation"
"Return to Previous Generation"
"Return to Next Generation"
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#573726 - 01/02/20 11:37 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar to Bar Regeneration [Re: Pipeline]
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JohnJohnJohn Offline
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1) enter my chords and generate for the first time
2) select track and bars I want to regenerate
3) push the new regenerate button which changes ONLY THE SELECTED BARS ON THE SELECTED TRACK
4) implement full undo so I can return if I want

That's it! Simple to use. Not hard to program.

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