A little while ago in 2019, I contacted Steve Young and asked if he would be interested in working on a song with me. Much to my excitement, Steve said, “Yes”.
The song that I’d written was a lullaby. With lyrics and music, I tried to create a hint of ‘olde worlde’ by using occasional words and melody that were more reflective of the 1700s and 1800s rather than the 2000s. I was at a loss as to where to go from there, though, and needed some help. Thus my email to Steve because after hearing years of his music, and already having co-written two songs with him, I know that he must have a 10th Dan Black Belt in the martial art of Music Arranging.
Even though Steve has a Mac computer and I have a Windows PC, the good news about BIAB is that files between the two are fully compatible. And so this particular journey of collaboration began. I sent Steve my BIAB file, the lyrics, a rough vocal track and an audio workfile. Steve took all this on board and with help and using his arranging expertise, we finally arrived at the below song…
Please feel free to comment critically on any aspect of the song. On behalf of Steve and me, I sincerely hope that you enjoy listening. (The lyrics are on Soundcloud at the above link.)
Regards, Noel and Steve
The Orchestra
Realtracks
777: Bass, Acoustic, PopWaltz Ev 085 (A:simple) 2774: Harp, Rhythm CelticWaltzSlow Ev 085
In addition to these two Realtracks, Steve played all the below MIDI parts.
Other Tracks
12 tracks of MIDI brass and woodwinds...
2 x flute trills tracks (Ableton Live Woodwinds) 2 x Flute legato tracks (EastWest Hollywood Woodwinds) 2 x Clarinets tracks (EastWest Hollywood Woodwinds 2 x French horns tracks (EastWest Hollywood Brass) 2 x English horns tracks (EastWest Hollywood Woodwinds) 2 x Trombones tracks (EastWest Hollywood Brass)
There are 7 tracks of MIDI strings...
2 x 1st violin section tracks (1 Sonivox Strings, 1 Native Insturments (NI) String Ensemble) 1 x 2nd violin section track (NI String Ensemble) 1 x viola section track (NI String Ensemble) 1 x cello section track (NI String Ensemble) 1 x solo violin track (EastWest Solo Violin) 1 x solo cello track (EastWest Solo Cello)
Other MIDI instruments
1 x Piano track (NI Alyssa's Keys piano softsynth) 1 x Una Corda Piano track (for reinforcing certain elements) - (NI Una Corda piano) 1 x Triangle percussion track (Ableton Live percussion) 1 x Tree mark chimes percussion track (Ableton Live percussion
Tracks used to make the music box
a freeware music box sound that works with NI Kontact 1 x melody track, 4 x individual harmony/accompaniment tracks (to give it a more authentic music box feel) 1 x Track for wind-up sound for music box (found free wav file online)
Quote:
Steve, I want to say a huge “Thank you!” You took an idea along with a very ordinary sounding BIAB file and audio workfile and, with your help and expertise, they became an orchestral masterpiece. I truly am in awe of your ability to arrange music.
It has been a real pleasure working with you again, Noel
Great choice with Steve. Wonderful arrangement! Love the pizzicato and trills on the strings. The instruments sound great, without ever getting in front of the vocals.
The music box introduction is really effective.
As usual Noel, your vocals are a perfect fit for the lyrics - expressive and filled with joy.
One small nit - the lyric:
And the smiles I keep growing Were they wings, I would fly
Are the smiles growing in size, or quantity? On first listen, I imagined you were referring to a garden of smiles, which certainly matches the whimsy of the song. But then I was puzzled why you could fly if they were wings. Was it because they would be so large (there goes the garden metaphor) or because you had many wings like a seraphim (again... an interesting visual).
Yes, I overthink things.
In any event, perhaps a more mundane image would work better (even if it breaks the fourth wall):
Like a light within me glowing As I sing you this lullabye
Yeah, I'm a terrible person for suggesting lyrics to a wonderful song. So much for starting the new year with a fresh start.
Anyway: lovely song, well sung. Excellent job, as usual, made even more sweet with Steve's arrangement.
Beautiful song Noel. Loved the intro. The music box made the song very special. Totally captivating. Awesome vocal. Well done
Hi Scott,
Thanks for dropping in. Appreciate it.
And thank you for the comments, too. I need to put them into perspective, though. I'll break them down so that you can see who is responsible for what...
1. Beautiful song Noel -- let's say 5/10 me, 5/10 Steve
2. Loved the into -- 10/10 Steve
3. The music box -- 10/10 Steve
4. Totally captivating -- let's guess 5/10 me, 5/10 Steve (In reality, it's probably more like 2/10 me and 8/10 Steve.)
5. Awesome vocal -- I'm guessing 5/10 me, 5/10 Steve (Even I got a shock at how good I sounded the first time I heard this version of me. Steve sure knows which dials to tweak and twiddle!)
So if I collect these marks (hmmm... I seem to have slipped into teaching mode).... anyway... collecting the marks gives:
Noel = 15/50 and Steve = 35/50.
In other words, what you are hearing is 30% me and 70% Steve. That seems about right
Thanks again, Scott.
May 2020 brings lots of good things your way, Noel
Great choice with Steve. Wonderful arrangement! Love the pizzicato and trills on the strings. The instruments sound great, without ever getting in front of the vocals.
The music box introduction is really effective.
As usual Noel, your vocals are a perfect fit for the lyrics - expressive and filled with joy.
One small nit - the lyric:
And the smiles I keep growing Were they wings, I would fly
Are the smiles growing in size, or quantity? On first listen, I imagined you were referring to a garden of smiles, which certainly matches the whimsy of the song. But then I was puzzled why you could fly if they were wings. Was it because they would be so large (there goes the garden metaphor) or because you had many wings like a seraphim (again... an interesting visual).
Yes, I overthink things.
In any event, perhaps a more mundane image would work better (even if it breaks the fourth wall):
Like a light within me glowing As I sing you this lullabye
Yeah, I'm a terrible person for suggesting lyrics to a wonderful song. So much for starting the new year with a fresh start.
Anyway: lovely song, well sung. Excellent job, as usual, made even more sweet with Steve's arrangement.
Hi David,
Happy New Year! I'm guessing that it's probably January 1 in the US now.
Thank you for your comments. I always look forward to reading what you write. I have no problem at all with what you say. I long ago passed being emotionally tied to any of my material
Believe it or not, you've homed in on one of two pairs of lines that caused me the greatest amount of thinking! That's pretty amazing of you to do that. It might also be an indication that the lines are not working as well as I'd hoped -- I'll put that thought on the shelf for the moment, though.
I hear what you are saying. For me, the notion was a garden of smiles (hence "growing") and if each one of these smiles became a tiny set of wings, there would be be enough resultant lifting force from a 1,000 'smiles turned to wings' that I'd have lift-off. Since the physics worked in my head, I went with that concept.
Then I thought about how I might add a touch of quaintness to the concept of a garden of flowering smiles turning into wings. The subjunctive mood seemed to be the way to go since this structure only happens occasionally in today's language.
For example: If I say, "I wish that I was a butterfly", it's a straightforward clause. However, I can amplify the sense of wishing by turning it into the subjunctive mood. The clause then becomes, "I wish that I were a butterfly", where "were" is the subjunctive form of the past tense of 'to be'.
That was how my lyric journey started. To get to...
Quote:
And the smiles I keep growing Were they wings, I would fly
...I travelled the following road over the course of about a week.
I started out by writing out in full, what I'd like to cover on the two lines... that is...
Quote:
And the smiles I keep growing If each smile was a set of wings then I could fly
Even though I quite like a long phrase or two in my lyrics, as you've noted in the past, that sentence was a bit too bulky for me to fit in the small space that had been determined by verse one lyrics.
Next, I changed the sentence to subjunctive mood to add a smidgeon of antiquity.... "If each smile were a set of wings, then I could fly".
Now I needed to condense it to fit musically. This led to contracting "I could" and then sentence inversion and finally, while staying steadfast with the subjunctive mood, I arrived at...
Quote:
And the smiles I keep growing Were each one a set of wings, then I'd fly
From the above, I arrived at the penultimate...
Quote:
And the smiles I keep growing Were they wings, I could fly
...and ultimately this led to...
Quote:
And the smiles I keep growing Were they wings, I would fly
I felt a sense of accomplishment when I made it to here because these two lines had been floating around in my head for a long time by this stage.
** 'could' actually works better for meaning than 'would' because it implies wishful thinking and this resonates better with the subjunctive mood. I was torn, though, because I liked the alliteration that 'would' brought to the words. In the end, I decided to go with the more musical sounding lyrics (i.e. alliteration) rather the those that align with better semantics.
I'm not trying to convince you that I'm right or wrong because at the end of the day, none of that matters to me. It's a song. I gave it my all as I was writing it, and now that it's done, I can move on to the next one. I wrote the above because (a) you isolated one of the two sections that I really struggled with and (b) I thought that you might like to know the short-story version of the process that got me to the final product.
Thank you for your generous review and I sincerely appreciate the springboard that your comments gave me.
Last, I agree with you 1,000%. Steve is an amazing arranger... but then you are no slouch in that department, either
Thanks again, Noel
P.S. Just in case you're curious, the second section that I struggled with were the two lines..
I hope that life is gracious And that you’ll out-shine the sun
P.P.S. I suspect that I might over-think things, too
That's lovely Noel, lovely. I did notice that the wind up had a different audio character to the rest. I reckon it'd be worth you while to experiment with some EQ boost in the mids to give it a more present and real tone...it sounds like a 193MP3 download at present. Hey, it's not essential but the rest of the song is so well rounded and real that I think it'd be time well spent. The song's great and the arrangement/playing is fabulous. A whole pile of kids in Vic & NSW would need this tonight.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
That's lovely Noel, lovely. I did notice that the wind up had a different audio character to the rest. I reckon it'd be worth you while to experiment with some EQ boost in the mids to give it a more present and real tone...it sounds like a 193MP3 download at present. Hey, it's not essential but the rest of the song is so well rounded and real that I think it'd be time well spent. The song's great and the arrangement/playing is fabulous. A whole pile of kids in Vic & NSW would need this tonight.
Thanks, Ray.
I'm glad you had time to visit and to listen. I'll let Steve read and ponder your comments on the mix as he's the one who looked after all that. I have to say, you sure have mighty fine ears to be able to isolate all that! No wonder your works sound so impressive!
And I'm with you. The bushfires we have right now are extraordinary. I've never known anything like it -- so much destruction in so many states all at the one time. And it's not even high summer yet! I cannot begin to imagine how those caught up in the thick of it all must be feeling. I donated some money tonight just so that I could feel that I was doing something worthwhile to help.
Hi Noel, the intro made me smile and brought me in the mood for the rest of this beautiful song. Very nice vocal , fine lyrics and an arrangement that evolved from small to orchestral and then small again. I wished I could manage to make such a wonderfull work of art. Thanks for your explination about the process of collaborating and writing the lyrics.
Noel, that was really a joy to listen to. I loved the way you and Steve wove a lot of instruments and track types into a simple arrangement. I also appreciate you explaining your though process behind the lyrics.
Sometime things we say and the way we say them mean more to us that to others, since they touch our hearts. In this I thought you touch others as well, especially as you can see by the positive comments.
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hi noel this is so excellent so well done in so many ways the vocal the arrangement the instruments were perfect like I was sitting 20' from you performing great colab and steve you never disappoint thanks eric
AMD (TM) 5950 4.9 GHz 16Core Processor 64 bit 32 bits of ram windows 10 pro 64 bit os. sound card Antelope ZenQ guitars Ibanez 2202a 1968 les Paul Custom and Cavin ae 185 Guitar boss Gt-100,GT1000 pedal Yamaha HS8 studio monitors
The arrangement and production are mind-boggling good (thanks for all the notes on that). Steve's abilities are a wonder. The orchestration is likely the best we've ever heard here...
With all the gorgeous aspects of this, the one that really stood out (amongst oodles of stand out stuff) is the vocal - how it sounds, how it sits in the mix, how "perfect" it is. I think it is, perhaps, THE best example of vocal mixing/processing I have ever heard on the forum. Truly professional sound. (Would love to hear the specifics of how that was accomplished...).
Hi Noel, the intro made me smile and brought me in the mood for the rest of this beautiful song. Very nice vocal , fine lyrics and an arrangement that evolved from small to orchestral and then small again. I wished I could manage to make such a wonderfull work of art. Thanks for your explination about the process of collaborating and writing the lyrics.
Hi Rob,
Thank you heaps for jumping into the thread and having a listen. I'm very grateful.
I agree with you, too... I'd love to be able to make such great sounding works of art too. While the bits I did were useful, a huge chunk of credit goes to Steve. He turned what I'd done into something really magnificent! I could never orchestrate anything to this level.
Well this is the first Noel for me in a long time and it's a cracker. The overall sound and mix is outstanding. And I hate you!
I absolutely love that 'olde worlde' idea and it works so well. The vocal is pristine in it's clarity - hate you again - and perfectly suited to the song. Great job guys.
And so pleased to see that you're still putting them out there Noel.:)
Noel, that was really a joy to listen to. I loved the way you and Steve wove a lot of instruments and track types into a simple arrangement. I also appreciate you explaining your though process behind the lyrics.
Sometime things we say and the way we say them mean more to us that to others, since they touch our hearts. In this I thought you touched others as well, especially as you can see by the positive comments.
Hi Rob,
Thank you for finding the time to drop-in. And thank you for your comments, too.
In all honesty, I don't know how Steve manages to work with so many tracks. When I create a song that has 5 or 6 tracks, it challenges me! Here Steve has used over 30 tracks and the sound that he manages to create is exceptional. When I first heard what he'd done, I couldn't believe my ears.... it was an incredible experience.
In relation to the lyrics, I spend quite a bit time on them and ponder heaps of combinations and permutations of ideas and words. Almost always, the first draft bears little to no resemblance to the final draft. The above comments on the subjunctive mood give just a bit of insight for those in the forum who might be interested.
Thanks again!
I hope that 2020 brings good things your way, Noel
hi noel this is so excellent so well done in so many ways the vocal the arrangement the instruments were perfect like I was sitting 20' from you performing great colab and steve you never disappoint thanks eric
Hi Eric,
Thank you for taking time to have a listen and for passing on your thoughts. It's always a pleasure to see that you have passed through the thread.
I sincerely appreciate your visit and I hope that 2020 is going to be a super year for you and your family.
Stunning tune—really pretty song. Love the vocal. Love the subtlety of the production—soft, rich and thoroughly compelling. Beautiful! An inspiring and humbling piece of work. Congrats on this one, guys. Great work!
My best regards,
Deej
P.S. to Noel: Belated thanks for your comments on my song "Lonley Tonight"--I haven't been able to get to the forum for a couple weeks now, and I really don't want to bump up the song. But I thought your discussion of rhyme scheme using the Dylan tune was very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
One could only expect greatness from a pairing like you two and this certainly does not disappoint.
Noel, after years of listening to you we have to say that this vocal performance is stellar...amongst your best. Out front vocals need to be good and this is a great example of how that goodness can work.
As Janice said, "both of our mamas would have loved this song. It is sweet and I love the music box."
Production wise? What to say. Midi alone is beyond our pay grade And that many tracks? I get lost after four or five. It's a brilliant production with remarkable midi performances to support the excellent write and vocal.
A showcase on the showcase.
Many kudos y'all!
J&B
PS BTW us Mac folks have done many collabs with PC folks...the power of BiaB.
let's not quibble about percentages of who did what: This wonderful collaboration wouldn't have been as great as it is without either of you!
The mere listen is already such a treat, because everything is sounding so brilliantly, everything goes to gether so well. The vocals shine and transport the intended feel so amazingly well.
But when I read about that explosion of MIDI tracks I hardly couldn't believe it: The song comes along so pure and natural that you would never notice the huge amount of tracks and synthesized sounds.
All I can say is, 'Hats off' to both of you: A wonderful song in all respects - like I said: A treat !!!
The arrangement and production are mind-boggling good (thanks for all the notes on that). Steve's abilities are a wonder. The orchestration is likely the best we've ever heard here...
With all the gorgeous aspects of this, the one that really stood out (amongst oodles of stand out stuff) is the vocal - how it sounds, how it sits in the mix, how "perfect" it is. I think it is, perhaps, THE best example of vocal mixing/processing I have ever heard on the forum. Truly professional sound. (Would love to hear the specifics of how that was accomplished...).
Extraordinary.
fj
Hi floyd,
Thanks for taking the time. I hadn't thought of these lyrics in terms of being a "Parent's Prayer" but that really is what they are all about! I like it.
I agree with you. Steve's orchestration is up there with the best and probably is the best that's been in the forum. He did it so quickly too! The first time I heard where he'd taken my words and music, I was speechless. He raised everything to level that I can only dream about achieving.
And the way he treated my vocals was awesome! Hopefully he'll let you know how he did that.
Thanks again for dropping in and I hope you have a great 2020!
I sure do like listening to your singing. There's a quality about it that I find both relaxing and pleasing. The song was equally good and the production excellent. The melody sounds a lot like "The First Noel." Maybe you or somebody else mentioned that, I didn't notice. Of course, it's public domain, so no problems.
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LOL! I was wondering when someone would notice that there's a hint of "The First Noël". Congratlations on being the winner, Tunemonger!
When I wrote the melody and chords, I was completely unaware of this aspect of the song and it wasn't until I heard Steve's orchestration that it occurred to me. I was stunned at how easy it is to subconsciously use a theme without realising it. I mentioned it to Steve at the time.
If you listen to the second half of Steve's instrumental section, you'll definitely hear that it starts out like "The First Noël" -- I think this was Steve being a bit playful!
Anyway... because, exactly as Tunemonger says, "The First Noël" is public domain it wasn't an issue to leave it as is so I just thought I'd see who noticed it. It might have been that my thinking was a bit cheeky, too, because I also liked that "The First Noël" matched my name
If you listen closely, though, "Gentle Night" is only like the "The First Noël" for a few reasons that are not copyrightable and one reason that probably wouldn't be considered impinging on copyright.
It's interesting to look at this from a copyright perspective, though, because there are lessons to learn. The similarities/differences are...
1. The both "Gentle Night" and "Noël" are in 3/4 time.
Not copyrightable
2. I used the key of C major for "Gentle Night" and "Noël" is often performed in this key as it's comfortable for choral versions of the song.
Not copyrightable.
3. The chord progression I've used for "Gentle Night" is similar to ones that often occur with some versions and some bars of "Noël".
Not copyrightable.
4. The melody for "Noël" has two pickup notes (E to D) and then climbs from middle C to C one octave above in scale-wise motion.
(i.e. melody = ED|CDEFGAB|CBA|G)
The stating melody for "Gentle Night" has two pickup notes (F to D) and then climbs up the C major chord arpeggio from middle C to C one octave above.
(i.e. melody = FD|CCEGGGC|CBA|G
The note-pattern for "Gentle Night" shouldn't impinge on copyright because the note-patterns between the two are distinctly different both rhythmically and melodically with the exception of |CBA|G.
5. The four notes for the phrase "silently sleep" (Gentle Night) and "angels did say" (Noël) are the same. This occurs on note CBA|G in both songs.
I'm not sure if only four notes being identical, and in commonly used descending scale-wise motion, is enough to impinge on copyright... maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Fortunately I don't have to worry about it.
6. The rest of the notes in the two A-sections, or verses, are different from one another.
Doesn't affect copyright.
7. The B-section that begins with "You fill my heart..." is completely different from anything in "Noël".
Doesn't affect copyright.
Working my way through the above was very useful and it helped clarify my thinking in many ways. Thank you for that. The moral of the story is that it's very easy to end up creating something that you think is original but it might not be.
These days, when I listen to the song, I no longer hear "Noël" except in the back half of Steve's instrumental section. When others listen, I suspect that "Noël" is noticeable because the little bits that are reminiscent of this carol are repeated at the beginning of each A-section and that the ear focuses on and anticipates these. This then over-rides the many differences between the two songs.
Thanks for listening and for commenting, and thanks for noticing "The First Noël", too
I hope that 2020 is a great year for you both, Noel
Well this is the first Noel for me in a long time and it's a cracker. The overall sound and mix is outstanding. And I hate you!
I absolutely love that 'olde worlde' idea and it works so well. The vocal is pristine in it's clarity - hate you again - and perfectly suited to the song. Great job guys.
And so pleased to see that you're still putting them out there Noel.:)
Keep 'em coming.
Hi Martin,
Thank you! I'm glad that you had time to pass through the thread and to listen on Soundcloud. Your comments really made me smile. Thanks for the hate <laugh> That's a first for me.
May lots of good things come you way in 2020, Noel
This is STUNNING. Wish I could write half as well. Beautiful! Congratulations to both of you!!!
Hi James,
It's good to see you. Thank you finding time to visit and to give the song a run through. I'm glad you like it. I have to say that "STUNNING" -- all in uppercase -- is the first word that sprang to my mind, too, when I heard Steve's arrangement.
Beautifully crafted and performed tune. Listens very well. Feels as a lot of thought went into it. Do not take this as offence, I almost fell asleep listening to it... So it is WORKING! I think you should definitely collaborate on least couple of more, to see where it takes you. Thank you for sharing!
Noel & Steve, Beautiful! I`m a sucker for a warm well written lullaby- you hit the goosebumps spot in several places here- my favourite lines:
Tomorrow dances ‘round you A promise of what’s to come I hope that life is gracious And that you’ll out-shine the sun
Your vocals are always relaxed and full of feeling- this is one of your best. A wonderful collaboration.
Robert
Hi Robert,
Thank you for your comments. They honestly mean a lot coming from such an advanced wordsmith as yourself.
I usually spend quite a bit of time getting the right lyrics so that they they fit musically and they give the meaning I'm after. It's like a jigsaw puzzle for me and I really get enthusiastic working my way to the end product. While this is all happening, though, inside my head is a bit of a mess as I go over and over and over words and phrases! LOL. It occupies most of my travel time to and from work
This song would be nothing without Steve. He took it up into the stratosphere! The lift that his arrangement and instrumental work gave to the words and melody was nothing short of outstanding.
Thank you for visiting! Noel
P.S. I hope 2020 is a great year for you and your family.
Hi, all! Just a day or two after I turned over this final production of this song to Noel, I started getting very sick with a bad cold, and lost my "clear" hearing. I have finally recovered, so I am able to start listening to some of the fine work showcased here...
First of all, thanks so much for all the very kind words I have read here about our song. I want to pay tribute to Noel for his outstanding efforts on this song. Noel is truly one of the kindest, most positive people on this forum (or anywhere, for that matter!) I just love the lyrics that he wrote in this song. It is very rare that a song lyric can successfully stand on its own, without the music bed underneath it. But this does. The symbolism, and analogies used in this poem are so strong and positive. This could be read to a child, as well as sung to the child. Noel, I am honored to have been able to play a part in bringing this into musical light!
In answer to a couple of the questions...
Rayc - You have such a good ear! You hear things that most don't, you must have very sensitive ears. (That's a good thing!) Regarding the "quality" of the windup for the music box in the intro, both the windup AND the music box were intentionally placed in the song as lo-fi sounds, to fit the "scenery" of the song. A music box by nature is a lo-fi instrument, and I wanted to give the feeling, as if you are standing by a cradle, winding up a music box to play for a sleepy child. So this is intentional. Also, it's a matter of taste, and anyone is completely free to have a different opinion. So thank you for giving such an astute observation. I do truly appreciate your input!
Floyd - You asked how I got the "sound" of Noel's voice to sit in the mix, so here goes... First, Noel has a very nice voice to work with. That's important! He sent me a "dry" recording of his vocals, and his recording was well done with very nice levels for me to start with. I have a Universal Audio Apollo Twin preamp, with 2 processers, as well as a UA AUD-2 Octo Satellite with 8 processors. So I have a total of 10 processors to help manage the load on (only the UAD) plugins. Don't worry, I could get approximately the same sound with a much leaner system, with a little work. I just have this equipment, so I use it.
Here's what I did with them... There are 14 plugins on Noel's vocals. Please don't let that scare anyone. I have access to a lot of really good plugins and I am comfortable with how to use them, so I use them. The key is, I use each plugin very subtly, and sparingly. I only use plugins that work with the sound I am looking for, so in this case, I ended up with the 14 that I used. I'm really only interested in the "cumulative" results. I'm not really "married" to any one plugin.
So here are the plugins I used... 1. UA Antares Auto Tune - VERY lightly used! Probably not even enough to make much differencew. 2. UA Manley VOXBOX - an extremely well done plugin emulation of the renowned Manley Voxbox vocal channel strip. Tube-based sound with Elop compressor, Tube Pre, Passive Pultec style EQ, Elop De-esser/Limiter run through Tube Circuit Line Amplifier. This plugin does add some good analog character. Again, I use it sparingly - tune in the eq I'm looking for with a tad of compression, and overall "tube" sound. 3. UA Precision De-Esser - This is the "primary" de-sser I use. Again used sparingly to keep as natural a sound as possible while losing some of the harsh sounds. 4. Waves MannyM Reverb - This is one of Waves' reverbs that has some nice hall/room/plate/ambience options, along with some eq capabilities, and compression as well. I use enough reverb to make it noticeable when you turn it off, more than noticeable when you turn it on. (I used a little more on Noel's voice, to help some of the natural "piercing" of his nice tenor voice to be tamed into the mix. 5. IK Multimedia TR Satx - just a tad of saturation (I used one of the tape settings) to help the voice dominate, while fitting into the mix. Again, subtle use. 6. Waves CLA Vocals - This is a Waves vox channel strip that I have been using for years. I'm just comfortable with it, and used to it. Has a nice top and low end eq adjustment, with a nice compressor - This is where use compression to really bring "up" the "sound" I am looking for. Again, I am not looking for a noticeable "compressed" sound, as much as I am looking for the "feeling" that I am after in vocals. Then, this channel has some nice tight reverb sound and a decent slap. 7. Ableton Convolution Reverb - This is a nice room convolution reverb that I found, and liked how it sounded on Noel's voice. Just enough to sweeten it up. 8. UA bx-Refinement - This is another saturation plugin that really focuses on taking some of the harshness out of a sound. It also has a nice Presence adjustment to add back the upper highs that might be taken out in the process. 9. Waves Aphex Vintage Exciter - Very sparingly used to bring in some of the "character" of this legendary aural exciter. 10. UA Oxford Inflator - Sparingly used to "thicken" up the vocal sound. This plugin increases loudness without sacrificing dynamic range. 11. Waves Vocal Rider - Again, sparingly used to help "keep" the vocals on top. 12. Proximity - I came across this plugin years ago. I have used it a lot. It just does something to the sound that I like. Don't have enough time or room to explain here. It is a free plugin, you can find online if anyone is interested (I'm not at all involved in it!) I think it is Tokyo Dawn Records Proximity. I've never had any problems with it. Use at your own risk 13. Waves Saphira - This is another "saturation" type plugin, but gives a lot more controls as to Body and Edge, as well as some eq and tape emulation settings. Very powerful plugin - Sparingly used! 14 FiDef - This is the secret sauce, and my newest toy! I really love this plugin! I stumbled across this process a few years ago, but it was never available as a plugin until recently. This is a new process that adds noise to a sound, to emulate a more true analog sound. It's almost subliminal, but yet it makes a noticeable difference to the sound. There are only 4 settings to it (Default, Upper Mid Air, Warm and Pushed, and High End Spread). I used the Warm and Pushed setting for Noel's voice. It just really makes his voice come alive in the mix.
Well, there you have it! I am sorry if I went into too much detail. I figure those with "short attention spans" have stopped reading far before now. And those of you still reading may appreciate what little I have to contribute. If you can use anything I have shared, fine. If not, that's fine too! The main thing is, if it sounds good, it is good!
Thanks so much!
Steve
Steve Young Music "In order to compose, all you need to do is remember a tune that nobody else has thought of." - Robert Schumann
Stunning tune—really pretty song. Love the vocal. Love the subtlety of the production—soft, rich and thoroughly compelling. Beautiful! An inspiring and humbling piece of work. Congrats on this one, guys. Great work!
My best regards,
Deej
P.S. to Noel: Belated thanks for your comments on my song "Lonley Tonight"--I haven't been able to get to the forum for a couple weeks now, and I really don't want to bump up the song. But I thought your discussion of rhyme scheme using the Dylan tune was very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
Hi Deej,
Thank you for taking time to listen. I appreciate the comments.
I'm not sure how much credit I deserve with this final product. When you look at Steve's post below and see what he's used in addition to all the MIDI instruments he played, my mind reels. I'm still finding it difficult to grasp that he used 14 presets on my vocals! Isn't it amazing what electronics makes possible nowadays.
One could only expect greatness from a pairing like you two and this certainly does not disappoint.
Noel, after years of listening to you we have to say that this vocal performance is stellar...amongst your best. Out front vocals need to be good and this is a great example of how that goodness can work.
As Janice said, "both of our mamas would have loved this song. It is sweet and I love the music box."
Production wise? What to say. Midi alone is beyond our pay grade And that many tracks? I get lost after four or five. It's a brilliant production with remarkable midi performances to support the excellent write and vocal.
A showcase on the showcase.
Many kudos y'all!
J&B
PS BTW us Mac folks have done many collabs with PC folks...the power of BiaB.
Hi Janice and Bud,
Good to see you and thank you!. I appreciate your comments.
Like you really good MIDI is also beyond my paygrade. That said, I'm glad that Steve is around. He certainly is a MIDI power user and seemingly fearless when it comes to working with tracks. I admire both these abilities greatly.
Quite honestly, I'd break out in a cold sweat for sure if I had to think about mixing 30+ tracks... and all those plugins on my vocals! No wonder I sound good! I'm pretty sure that I couldn't work with that many plugins on a single track.
So, after doing this with Steve, I've become more aware of my limitations so I'll have to work with him again, now
Thanks for visit and may 2020 be kind a generous to you both, Noel
This piece is excellent in EVERY aspect! The care that went into the production here must have been very time consuming! The results are fantastic! My hat is off to you and Steve for what you ended up with! It's a beautiful tune that is sung perfectly and is an overall very pleasant listen! Thanks, Torrey
Once again, thanks to all of you for your generous comments.
And again, I want to point out that Noel's writing on this is some of his best I have heard! The melody really got stuck in my head when he sent it to me (and not because it sounded like The First Noel!) (I guess we could call this The First Noel Adams.)
Honestly, there are enough diversions to the melody line for there to be no conflict with the Public Domain song, The First Noel. And I think this one has a very compelling, haunting melody line to it.
I have never really thought of what I do as midi production. I always just thought of it as orchestration and arrangement, even though it was using midi. It just occurred to me after reading some of your comments that this is a lot of midi sounds! (I know that seems silly, but true.) Anyway, I am always striving to find a way to keep my arrangements sounding as "real" as possible, and maybe that's why I don't think in terms of midi, as much as in terms of orchestration/arrangements. I am flattered to read your kind comments.
Also, I think Noel did a superb job on the vocals. Don't let the fact that there are 14 plugins on his vocals lead you to think there were any problems with the vocals. All of the plugins are there (each one used sparingly) to bring out the true natural sound of his voice, which digital recording processes can tend to make slightly more sterile and harsh. I only look at the cumulative result, not how many plugins it takes to get there. There was nothing wrong with Noel's voice, or his recording that required a massive amount of plugins to fix. He did a fine job of singing, on pitch, etc. These plugins are designed to help an already good recording fit into the mix, not artificially make him sound better than he did.
This was a lot of fun to work on, because of the good quality of material I had to work with. And Noel, I am honored to work with you any time!
Thanks again to all!
Steve
Steve Young Music "In order to compose, all you need to do is remember a tune that nobody else has thought of." - Robert Schumann
let's not quibble about percentages of who did what: This wonderful collaboration wouldn't have been as great as it is without either of you!
The mere listen is already such a treat, because everything is sounding so brilliantly, everything goes to gether so well. The vocals shine and transport the intended feel so amazingly well.
But when I read about that explosion of MIDI tracks I hardly couldn't believe it: The song comes along so pure and natural that you would never notice the huge amount of tracks and synthesized sounds.
All I can say is, 'Hats off' to both of you: A wonderful song in all respects - like I said: A treat !!!
All the best,
Stefan
Hi Stefan,
Thank you. I sincerely appreciate your time in listening and writing comments. I felt like you when Steve sent me a list of what he'd done. Just WOW! It's totally beyond my ability to work at his level.
Now if only I could put together videos like you and Maha do!
Well, I would assume that someone with strong special skills would fall in awe of your wonderful and well-coordinated musical cornerstones and sprinkle a certain amount of fairy dust and a magical mist all over them, thus rendering them as rare stones of beauty and comfort. This is truly a magnificent piece so well conceived and delivered,
What a wonderful yet powerful listen Simply Great In All Respects. The message was right on and the music flaunted it to great heights
This is beautiful guys!!! I love the orchestration and the feel and emotion of the whole production!! Some wonderful lyrics!! My favorite lines:
I hope that life is gracious And that you’ll out-shine the sun
WONDERFUL!!!! Take care. Greg
Hi Greg,
Thanks for finding the time to visit. It's always good to see you. I agree with you. Steve's orchestration is stunning. Also, thank you for noticing those two lines, it a while to arrive at them.
With guys like you two it just must become extraordinary as expected ! Wonderful, simply wonderful ! You Noel, have a recognizable way of singing something that makes you unique - every song you sing your voice is immediately recognizable at least to me ! Can remember Floyd saying that once about me too - it should be a superb asset for an artist both professional or amateur !
Congrats to both of you for this superb collaboration nothing short of a masterpiece !
Wow - what a tune I honestly wouldn't change a thing here, you guys knocked it out of the park. Super songwriting and extremely pleasant on the ears. The vocals soar and it all flows effortlessly.
I wouldn't bat an eye if I heard this on the radio - thanks for sharing!
Beautiful perfection in every aspect: lyrics, chords, vocals, arrangement. Great collaboration, I admire how you have worked the perfection to every little detail. I really enjoy those lush sounding piano and strings, great work in arranging them.
It has been very interesting read all comments, the story behind those lines - learning about the process how other songwriters think. And how Steve have used all those plug-ins, unbelievable
Excellent work with the music box, I wouldn't have patience to build it sound so perfect and beautiful (I have made a lullaby, still have to sing it. It has an interlude that would sound great with a music box, but I haven't find a sound as good as in your song).
Beautifully crafted and performed tune. Listens very well. Feels as a lot of thought went into it. Do not take this as offence, I almost fell asleep listening to it... So it is WORKING! I think you should definitely collaborate on least couple of more, to see where it takes you. Thank you for sharing!
Misha.
Hi Misha,
It's great to see you. I'm really glad to read that you nearly drifted off into the slumberland while listening. That's quite a compliment! Thank you.
I really enjoy working with Steve. He's an excellent collaborator.
I appreciate your passing through the thread, Noel
I read your production notes, just amazing how much has gone into this piece. Very impressive to say the least!
And then I read everything that Steve did to your vocal. 14 plugins?! Such attention to detail, I'm pretty much blown away to be honest.
Nice writing, Noel, you are a true master of that craft, and I really like your vocal too.
Great way to start off the year, congrats to both of you!
Hi Dave,
Nice to see you! Thanks for taking time to listen and to comment,
When I read Steve's production notes, I was also blown away. I have never worked to this level of detail. I don't think I have those kind of skills, anyway. It truly is incredible how Steve has used so much to create a cohesive and uncomplicated sounding arrangement that fits the genre perfectly. As with so many things in music (and in Life in general), in the hands of an expert, difficult things look/sound easy.
This piece is excellent in EVERY aspect! The care that went into the production here must have been very time consuming! The results are fantastic! My hat is off to you and Steve for what you ended up with! It's a beautiful tune that is sung perfectly and is an overall very pleasant listen! Thanks, Torrey
Hi there Torrey.
I'm glad you found time for a visit. Thanks for having a listen and writing some thoughts. The production is all Steve. The only track I had anything to do with, apart from the original demo BIAB file and song idea was the vocal track. As you can see from the above, Steve worked with a gazillion other tracks.
You fill my heart full of wonder and laughter And you lift me high with joy
True that. And this song did too. In spite of--and possibly even because of--occasionally having my face peed on, nothing brings me greater joy than our kiddos.
Well, I would assume that someone with strong special skills would fall in awe of your wonderful and well-coordinated musical cornerstones and sprinkle a certain amount of fairy dust and a magical mist all over them, thus rendering them as rare stones of beauty and comfort. This is truly a magnificent piece so well conceived and delivered,
What a wonderful yet powerful listen Simply Great In All Respects. The message was right on and the music flaunted it to great heights
.
Superbly done and such a sweet capture.
Alan
Hi Alan,
It's great to see you. I'm glad that you found some time to pop in. And thank you so much for the way too kind words. I'm still smiling.
I hope that things are going as well as possible for you and Di. Please pass on a very enthusiastic hello to her from me.
With guys like you two it just must become extraordinary as expected ! Wonderful, simply wonderful ! You Noel, have a recognizable way of singing something that makes you unique - every song you sing your voice is immediately recognizable at least to me ! Can remember Floyd saying that once about me too - it should be a superb asset for an artist both professional or amateur !
Congrats to both of you for this superb collaboration nothing short of a masterpiece !
Cheers Dani
Hi Dani,
You sure know how to make an aspiring songwriter feel good! Thank you I sincerely appreciate that you had a chance to have a listen.
Thanks again to all of you for all the very kind and generous comments! I'm sorry I have been so slow and infrequent in commenting here. We lost one of our dearest and closest friends for over 30 years 2 weeks ago, and I have been in charge of most of the arrangements for her ceremony, and helping the family. So I have been overwhelmed with all of that.
Noel has been so humble and generous in crediting me with the production of this song. But honestly, to me his writing is the shining light of this song. Every time I read the lyrics, I am struck with how timeless and powerful they are. And he hit a home run with his vocals. With this kind of inspiration, it makes it much easier to produce music. So hats off to Noel!
Thanks again to all of you!
Steve Young Music "In order to compose, all you need to do is remember a tune that nobody else has thought of." - Robert Schumann
Wow - what a tune I honestly wouldn't change a thing here, you guys knocked it out of the park. Super songwriting and extremely pleasant on the ears. The vocals soar and it all flows effortlessly.
I wouldn't bat an eye if I heard this on the radio - thanks for sharing!
Hi Deryk,
Thank you for the visit. And thank you for taking the time to pass on your thoughts. I always appreciate the insight of others.
Beautiful perfection in every aspect: lyrics, chords, vocals, arrangement. Great collaboration, I admire how you have worked the perfection to every little detail. I really enjoy those lush sounding piano and strings, great work in arranging them.
It has been very interesting read all comments, the story behind those lines - learning about the process how other songwriters think. And how Steve have used all those plug-ins, unbelievable
Excellent work with the music box, I wouldn't have patience to build it sound so perfect and beautiful (I have made a lullaby, still have to sing it. It has an interlude that would sound great with a music box, but I haven't find a sound as good as in your song).
Janne
Hi Janne,
It's good to see you again. Thanks for taking the time to visit Soundcloud and listen. And thanks also for taking the time to write your thoughts.
The melody is very beautiful. The waltz rhythm matches the song very well and is a wonderful Lullaby. Steve's orchestration is also amazing. Your vocals fit this song perfectly. Enjoyed my listen a lot.
You fill my heart full of wonder and laughter And you lift me high with joy
True that. And this song did too. In spite of--and possibly even because of--occasionally having my face peed on, nothing brings me greater joy than our kiddos.
Great work, Gentlemen.
Hi Tangmo,
I learnt that quickly, too. One has to watch the face when changing children's nappies -- especially with sons.
Thanks for taking the time to come on in and give the song a run-through. I appreciate you visit.
Beautiful song. Enjoyed it from start to finish. It's a wonderful arrangement, production and collaboration. Hats off to you and Steve.
Hey Charlie!
Thank you.
I don't collaborate all that often because I just don't have enough time and it concerns me that I wouldn't be able to pull my weight properly in a collaboration.
With Steve though, it was different. What we did was complement one another. I did my bit and then sent to him and he took over. It was kind of like individual songwriting in two parts that joined together at the end. I truly love what he has done with song.
The melody is very beautiful. The waltz rhythm matches the song very well and is a wonderful Lullaby. Steve's orchestration is also amazing. Your vocals fit this song perfectly. Enjoyed my listen a lot.
Best regards.
Shigeki Adachi
Hi Shigeki Adachi,
It's good to see you. Thank you for dropping in and having a listen. I sincerely appreciate it.
All the best, Noel.
P.S. It must nearly be time for Japan's famous cherry blossoms!
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