PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Recording problem

Hi, I'm trying to record some vocals on my bb files using my new 2020 version with Windows 7. When I hit a record button the bar indicator starts in the middle of the song even the song starts from the beginning. I hit a space bar then the indicator started from the beginning. I recorded my voice. Played it back. My voice Track and other instrument track play different bars. What am I doing wrong?

Welcome to the forum and to Band-in-a-Box!

How are you recording your vocal? Can you post a screenshot of the Band-in-a-Box audio settings?

I suspect your issue is latency. Latency is the time it takes for your vocal to get to your microphone, become an electrical signal, go into the computer, get converted into a digital signal and then recorded onto Band-in-a-Box's audio track.

The best way to minimize latency is to use an audio interface between your microphone and the computer and to use the ASIO driver provided by the audio interface manufacturer. Audio interfaces that support "real time monitoring" with a headphone jack and internal mixer can fix the latency issue altogether. The audio interface mixer adjusts the time of the Band-in-a-Box audio from the computer and the audio from your microphone and then combines the two audio signals effectively eliminating latency.

Hi ライミン,

Welcome to the forums.

In addition to Jim's excellent advice above...

When you go to record, do you select "Record Audio" (#1 on the image below) and then select "Start of song" (#2 on the image)?

If you don't have the "Record Audio" button, press CTRL+T to switch from full-screen view to standard view.

Also, do you have the latest update for BIAB? Updates are found at the URL below. To double-check your update, go to "Help | About Band In A Box" and the update will be in brackets following the version of the program [example: version 2020(709)] -- #709 is the latest update.

https://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm

Hope that this helps,
Noel

Thank you for the tips guys. Jim I think I fixed the latency. It’s the micro second differences, right? My problem is bar to bar differences between my voice track and the other instrument track.

Noel I updated to 709. And doing recording as you suggested. Maybe some other settings? Could be something simpler? I don’t know.

By the way, I’ve been recording my voice on multiple tracks for a few years using other recording devices. Then found out now BIAB has harmony function. It might have started a while ago? Anyways, I got so exited about using the function. So I really really need to fix my recording problem. Please help me guys.

https://youtu.be/_hf_M71QDSc

Actually, you might be better off using Realband for recording. It also has the harmony function.

In case it's useful information... any vocals recorded in any other program, can be imported into BIAB.

It's also possible to time-shift the audio track using "Audio | Edit Audio | Delete (or insert) Region" or using "Audio | Edit Audio | Time-shift (in ms)" where ms = milliseconds and 1 second = 1,000 ms. I'm referring to "Audio" on the upper-most menu.

Regards,
Noel

Thanks, Noel. I just activated Realband. I will try it.

It looks like the same thing happening to Realband as well. Actually kinda worse. When I click record button, drum counting sound AND hi-hat sounds start at the same time. Then hi-hat stays the whole tune. It won’t even be insync with drums. It’s unusable. BIAB is unusable now too. I cleaned and updated my computer. The symptoms stay the same. Is my computer not powerful enough for new BIAB by any chance? I wonder other windows7 users are OK with this program or not?

That's the metronome. Turn it off.

are you using asio drivers? latency is noticeable if you are using a midi keyboard to enter midi notes - you press the key then there is a lag before the on on the pc sounds

if you use asio drivers, the sound you hear when you sing should be in synch with the vocal as you sing and then when you playback.

if you are using MME drivers you'll never synch vocals and backing track

WAS come close to asio and i've used both. sounds to me as if the backing is playing back delayed but you are being recorded in real time so the error shows up in playback

are the backing tracks midi or realtracks?

even if i can't help, someone else will so tell us more

Hi again, ライミン.

Bob's advice about drivers is good.

Try running ASIO4ALL -- it's free and it's available from the below link.

http://www.asio4all.org/

While it is not a proper ASIO driver, it reduces latency enormously and is friendly with both BIAB and Realband.

And what Silvertones is saying regarding the metronome, that's found under "Options | Preferences" as shown on the top image (IMAGE 1) below.

See if either of the above helps.

============


Now, to get you in a position to play with the audio harmonies in BIAB, what I suggest while we are working on overcoming your problem is...

1. In BIAB, under the "Audio" option on the Top Menu (#1 on the bottom image -- i.e. IMAGE 2), select "Export song as audio file". Now follow the numbers 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

BIAB will now take around a minute to create an audio file.



2. Load this audio file in your DAW.


3. Record your vocal in your DAW. Start the recording so that it aligns with the 2-bar count-in in BIAB (even though this will be blank for a couple of bars, it helps to align it in BIAB).


4. Export your vocal from your DAW.


5. Back in BIAB... select "File | Import | Import Audio" to load the vocal file.


6. Save the song with a new name so that you don't overwrite the original file because you might want to get back to it.


7. Because your recording began when BIAB's count-in first started, you should be able to import your vocal in at Bar -1 and it will align with BIAB's backing track.


Now you can run the harmony options on this vocal track.

Hope this will allow you to play around with the audio harmony while I try and wrap my head around what might be the problem that you are experiencing.

Regards,
Noel

Hi Bob. I use MME in order to fix latency problem I experienced before I created this post. Turning it back to WAS will give me the latency problem back I suppose. But I’ll keep it in mind. Thank you.

Backing track is real tracks. I never used midi yet.

Thanks. I will.

If latency is the issue, that's a fixed length that's out of sync between the recorded audio and the backing track. I don't have an audio file that's out of sync but I import audio files all the time and because of the different lead in lengths of the various recorded audio clips, I have to syncs the tracks. Syncing the tracks may work to eliminate the latency offset. It does not cure the latency issue but it may salvage your recordings and make them usable.

Try this:

In a project (song) that your recorded vocal is out of sync with the BIAB backing track

Select the Audio Editor (Do not open the Audio Chord Wizard)

Place your cursor at the very beginning of the first beat of the audio clip

Right click with your mouse and select the last option - Mark this point as bar 1 of the song
EDIT: You may receive a message showing the number of clicks that will be offset, accept by hitting the YES button.

This will shift your entire audio track and sync it with bar 1 of the BIAB backing track. Since the latency lag is a fixed length, this one click should align the entire track.

Hope this helps.

Hi Noel,

ASIO and DAW are new to me too. I’m so low tech and am still living in the last century. I feel like a five-year-old lost in a university campus. I’ll try what you are suggesting and report it back soon though.

By the way, I hope you are far away from the forest fire. I’ve been feeling so bad watching news about it everyday.

Hi Noel, a new problem. I can’t render songs now. I was able to do it last month. Now it keeps failing.

OK, I was able to render by different procedure. FILE-.WAV-Exprt Song as Audio File.

I’ll try next step.

Hi Charlie, I couldn’t find my “bad recording” to do the editing that you suggested. I guess I didn’t keep it. I’ll report you as soon as I’m able to record another sample. Thanks.

Hi Noel, I guess I need to purchase a DAW, don’t I? Which DAW would you recommend?

Since you have Windows, you have RealBand that comes free with BIAB.

There are many other DAWs to consider, but two very good ones are free: Cakewalk by Bandlab and Reaper. Each has many users on this forum. They all have similar features, so try downloading each and see which one feels more natural to you.

I use Reaper 64-bit.

It's fantastic and it can be used for an unlimited amount of time without buying. All that happens is eventually a popup will occur when you start the program to remind you to buy it.

https://www.reaper.fm/

BIAB and BIAB-VST3 are friendly with Reaper.

Also, my main reason for settling on Reaper is the huge amount of free online video clips prepared by Kenny Gioia -- he's an awesome educator. The clips range from beginner to advanced.

http://www.kennymania.com/reaper-videos/

Hope that helps.

Regards,
Noel

• one of my songs: Just A Little After Midnight

Thank you guys. I’ll try it.

Now I’m able to record my voice just one take at the time on my bb file. I can’t check anything on the file before recording. Cuz it disturbs starting timings of bars. Just record my voice. No second take nothing else but one take. If I want more takes I shut the program off. Open it again and do one take recording again. My voice track still playback micro second later than other track. And wav file that automatically saved only has voice track. It’s still not usable function as it is. Why me?

As far as Reaper issue, I’m still studying about it. I’ll install it soon.

Don't buy a DAW - you shouldn't need to. You should be able to do what you want in BIAB and RB. Did you use an ASIO driver? Can you describe the equipment you are using?

are you recording through an audio usb interface or plugging a mic straight into the pc?

i am worried that you might not solve a basic problem before you take the plunge and go for some other program like Reaper only to find you have the same problem.

you say you used to record your voice. what program and what equipment? you might have made a quantum leap in terms of what you are trying to do. we can help but more information would be helpful.

perhaps we're all too far ahead of ourselves suggesting solutions when the issue might be simple and basic

Hi Bob,

>perhaps we're all too far ahead of ourselves suggesting solutions when the issue might be simple and basic

I got a feeling it’s exactly what you are saying. I just want simply record my voice on my bb file. But I never done it before. I plug in my simple microphone into my PC.

>You should be able to do what you want in BIAB and RB.

I thought so too. I used to record my voice and edit it using Audacity. I sung harmony parts on multiple tracks and mixed them. But it’s too much work. I thought bb can do some portions of the work for me. Now I have no time to do my music. Cuz too many things I have to learn. I’m so behind with respect to modern technology.

Hi ライミン

Here's a PG Music video on recording audio in Windows 7 and 8, it might be useful for you.



I haven't recorded audio for a long time in BIAB because, in the past, I couldn't hear myself back through my headphones while I was recording. This might have changed now. I'll give it a try and get back to you.

Realband, which comes with Windows BIAB, makes recording much easier and it's TC Helicon harmony generator also separates the harmony on to individual tracks.

BIAB, on the other hand, only has a single Audio track and when harmony is performed on an existing vocal track, it will overwrite the vocal. So with BIAB, it pays to keep a copy of the solo vocal so that it's easy to return to it.

My use of the BIAB/RB program suite is to create my song in BIAB.

Load the BIAB into Realband and investigate possible RTs for arrangement purposes.

Put all wav files into Reaper, record a vocal and create a production. If I want vocal harmonies, I take my vocal from Reaper, load it into Realband and use it to generate all the harmony tracks.

I haven't yet got around to investigating if the BIAB VST3 in Reaper can create harmony.

I hope the video helps.

Regards,
Noel

P.S. There is also a PG Music forum at the below link where you can ask for a specific video... might be worthwhile making a request here, too.

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=113&page=1

Hi guys,

I was able to record using biab DAW plugin with Reaper. My vocal track plays still a bit later than other tracks. One of PG music videos shows how to move existing track to make it insync with other tracks. But I want to be able to record insync. Maybe I should write a new posting with a new title, shouldn’t I?

Hi ライミン,

I'm glad you've got somewhere. I haven't yet tried recording in BIAB.

If the track you recorded is on Reaper's tracks, it is very, very easy just to drag it left of right to align with BIAB's playback. Don't worry about the bars in Reaper at this stage. I haven't tried it, but I imagine that they can be re-calibrated to suit.

To work out where to slide the track, when you are watching the playback, monitor Reaper's cursor on the very top bar/time scale. When the first note of where your song's melody starts, move the track so that the 'blob' on the track wave that represents the first vocal note lines up with this position. Sometimes the aligning the beginning of the blob is best, sometimes about 10% into it works best, sometimes 20%, etc. You will easily find what suits by using trial and error.

There is also a Reaper function called "Nudge" -- select the track by clicking on it, now either right click and select Nudge from the menu or press N when the track is selected. Nudge will move tracks right or left.

It's ok to leave everything in this thread because it's still part of the same problem.

Hope this helps.
Noel

P.S. Good on you for getting this far!

Hi guys, I solved Reaper latency problem by following this video.

https://youtu.be/TzS--D765Zw

Although BIAB recording problem is still remaining I can do recording with Reaper for now usung 60 day free traial. Thank you guys. I’ll report you bakc when something new happens.

Noel, thank you for the details. I may need it later.

Regarding the 60 day free trial, Reaper will still continue to operate after that.

It will just remind you when you start up that you 60 days are up. The program does not become unusable.

Thank you for sharing the link. I haven't seen that video before.

Regards,
Noel

• my latest song: In The Still Of This Gentle Night [...a co-write with Steve Young]

Hi guys.

I recorded my vocal on Reaper insync with bb file by DAW plugin. It playback fine. But I can’t save it in bb file. I click File in bb screen on Reaper. And click save or save as. Both only save bb accompanying tracks not my vocal tracks.
I have to be able to save it in order to use harmony function on bb. What am I doing wrong this time?

I’m getting kinda frustrated.

And audio track that you recorded in your DAW isn't going to be "in the plugin" automatically. However you can import it something like this:

1. save the track as a wave file if necessary (if it's not already a wave file as part of your project).

2. In the plugin, click on the + symbol beside the Audio track (the bottom track) and 'select audio file'.

3. Click the [+] again and select Harmonize. The harmony tracks will be saved on the second group of tracks, and can be dragged into your DAW like the other tracks.

Hi Andrew, I tried the procedure that you wrote me. Unfortunately the harmonies are so disturbed and not acceptable. Using Reaper, or any DAWs are not my intention originally. I want to do some recording using biab.

My original problem was that I couldn’t record using biab nor Realband. Accompanying tracks and my vocal track won’t playback insync. Then later on the recording function of biab became totally unusable. It won’t start from the beginning even I set the first bar as starting bar.

What do I need to know more to make my biab recording function usable? I’ve been struggling for about a month since I purchased my 2020 upgrade. Please help me.

Good morning ライミン,

I can hear your frustration. Hang in there. You are nearly at the end of this particular road and, once you are at the end, it will all be easy.

How I would go about getting the file into BIAB is as follows...


Firstly... IN REAPER...

1. SOLO the vocal track.

2. Right-click on the vocal track and select "Item Processing | Normalize Item" as shown on IMAGE 1 below. This will lift the volume of the track in case the recording was quiet.

3. Under "File" select "Render" and set the rendering criteria as shown on IMAGE 2. While IMAGE 2 looks a bit horrific with all the numbers, most of these are default and should be set.

The reason I'm suggesting 44100 Hz (#5) and 16 bit (#10) WAV (#9) file is because that matches the Realtracks in BIAB. In reality, you could use any frequency and bit depth.

I've selected Dither and Noise Shaping (#8) just in case you have recorded at anything other than 44100/16 as this will help give the best render. If you recorded at 44100/16, noise shaping and dither do not need to be active.

Following the above you will create a WAV of your vocal track.


Now in... BIAB

3. Open your song file.

4. Select "File | Import | Audio" and load in the vocal track.

This is where it's necessary to know at what bar the vocal started relative to BIAB's 2-bar count-in.

The settings on IMAGE 3 below, will import the audio on beat 1 of the first bar of the count-in. If you want the audio to start on the first bar of the song, the following numbers would do that...

1 1 1 0

To intrepret these numbers, it's necessary to keep in mind that BIAB uses 120 ticks per beat.

BIAB also uses bars -1 and 0 as the two bars of the count-in.

Thus an import setting of 1 2 3 60 would import the audio in: (a) Chorus 1; (b) Bar 2; (c) half a beat (i.e. 60 ticks) past Beat 3.

I hope all this makes sense.

Regards,
Noel

...adding on to the post above...

Learning to use the Harmoniser in BIAB is a good move.

BIAB actually has two different harmonisers in 2020.

If you are using BIAB 64 bit, only the latest method of adding harmony is possible.

If you use BIAB 32 bit, though, both approached to harmonising are possible.

The image below shows the two harmonisers in BIAB 32-bit.

The top option (#2) is the latest harmoniser. Option #3 is the older TC Helicon. Both are different and worth investigating.

Regards,
Noel

Haaaaaaa, big sigh. I’m not designed to do those. I wish I could hire someone to do this for me. I just wanna sing.

It looks much worse than it is. Trust me.

When you've done it once, it will be much easier. I promise.

I'm sorry that I haven't yet tried recording in BIAB. I'll get onto it tomorrow and see if I can reproduce the issue.

Noel

Everyone has given solid advice so far, so your getting closer. Let me offer one tidbit. I struggled just like you in the beginning, until I broke down and bought a dedicated recording sound card from m-audio it served me well for years. Having a dedicated device that has ASIO drivers takes all the fight out of this. I have since replaced it with a USB interface that does the same and far more. It doesn’t take a lot just one really targeted piece of equipment. This will be the heart and soul of your home studio.

Something like this https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AudioBoxUSB96--presonus-audiobox-usb-96

Or this https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ScarlettSoloG3--focusrite-scarlett-solo-3rd-gen-usb-audio-interface

Seems like a chuck of money but will pay off in May ways it will eliminate latency and give you good quality sound

Hi Noel, thank you so much for step by step explanation. I followed your procedure. The first one step was a bit different on mine. But basically almost all steps are the same on my computer. Finally I was able to use my harmonization function on biab. I didnt have enough energy to complete a tune to let you listen to it today. I’ll do so when I have a done product in a near future. Now I got the idea. Thanks again for your time and effort.

Hi again, ライミン.

I was pleased to read this. Music software in general (BIAB, DAWs, plugins, etc.) all have a learning curve associated with them. Unfortunately, there's no way to shortcut this is most instances. I've learnt over the years that every time I want to understand new music software, I need to do the following...

(a) remind myself that I have to allow two weeks to start to begin to feel comfortable and to know enough to feel that understanding is developing

(b) watch a beginner's video (or two or three) and get a feel for how the software works

(c) fearlessly play around with the software

(d) make back up files so that I don't lose the original work during when I fearlessly play around

(e) when I feel frustrated, go for a walk around the block

Being aware of and doing the above has helped!

I'm glad you are on your way.


Now... once you feel comfortable in BIAB with this (and as recommended above, I encourage you to use BIAB32 and to experiment with both harmonisers), you can take the NEXT STEP.

The next step is to use the harmonisers in Realband. Both of them are there.

Realband gives more control with the harmony because it creates individual WAVs for each of the harmony parts. This means that it's possible to volume shape each harmony voice as needed. After creating the wav files in Realband, I take them to Reaper to do the volume shaping.

The good thing with Realband is that it reads/opens BIAB files. Proabably the best way to think of Realband is that it's a DAW-like version of BIAB.

I look forward to hearing some of your work.

Regards,
Noel

• my latest song: In The Still Of This Gentle Night [...a co-write with Steve Young]

Hi Noel,

>Realband gives more control with the harmony because it creates individual WAVs for each of the harmony parts

That maybe the answer for my next question I had yesterday. I was wondering how to combine two tracks of harmonized parts.

> (a) remind myself that I have to allow two weeks to start to begin to feel comfortable and to know enough to feel that understanding is developing.

It took me about a month by now. And I feel like I found a few pieces of jigsaw puzzle out of thousands.

> (b) watch a beginner's video (or two or three) and get a feel for how the software works

I must have been watching two or three DOZENS of them multiple times each.

Who said this is fun? And if PG Music expects musicians to be able to handle this easily they don’t know musicians. Lol

Hi Rob,

I'm still overwhelmed by what I have now. But I'll keep your advice in mind. Thank you.

I have been at this for years. Do I know everything about the program? No. But, everyday there is something new.

I enjoy the challenge.

...Deb

こんにちは ライミン,

(As much as I would love to speak Japanese, I had to use Google for the above. Sorry.)

Oh my gosh.... you really have worked hard. Please be aware that you've actually progressed your way through some very complex aspects of BIAB and Reaper right now. This learning is going to very worthwhile when it comes to understanding the easier things.

Again I say, "Please trust me on this". You've done really well and have every right to feel proud of your effort.

I had a play around with both harmonisers in Realband last night and there is definitely much more control available. It's worth persevering with if you have the time.

At the risk of scaring you, Realband will also give you something new to learn. What you've learnt already will help significantly, though, although it might not seem so at first.

There is a file that PG Music include that is designed for practising with the harmonisers. This file is found under \bb\Documentation\Tutorials\Tutorial - Audio Harmonies". It's called LISTEN.MGU (or .SGU if you'd prefer the version without a melody track).

I suggest that when you open the Listen.MGU file, you save it straight away as SEQ (in Realband) or as a different file name (e.g. Listen-test.MGU) in BIAB so that you don't overwrite the original material. I apologise for not mentioning this sooner... it completely slipped my mind.

If you have a listen to my below song, floyd jane (from Users Showcase) added harmony to this using the TC Helicon Harmoniser a few years ago. His harmony section starts at around 2:30. It's very cool what he did. He didn't have the original material to work with either!

https://soundcloud.com/noel-adams/wait-and-see_plus-choir

The trick with the harmonisers is not to have the harmony too loud because every now and then audio artifacts and octave jumps occur. These are incredibly difficult to avoid. Fortunately, at lower volumes, the listener's ear doesn't hear them and the harmony is still just as effective. I've used TC Helicon Harmony many times and I like it. Harmonisers are also useful for creating a track that user can learn to sing and then create their own vocal harmony.

What I suggest is that you open the file Listen.MGU (located above) in Realband and test that it plays. Save it as an SEQ file. This is Realband's file format. If it doesn't play, that means I will need to give you some Audio and MIDI driver settings.

In Realband, the harmonisers are under the "Generate" menu (IMAGE 1).

To create a harmony...

1. select the Audio track (i.e. click on it and then press CTRL+A to select the whole track - see IMAGE 2 below).

Notice that it is track #8

2. Now click on the top harmoniser (that the arrow points to in IMAGE 1).

[I'll continue these instruction in the next post below]

[continuing instructions from post above]

3. After you select the top options, you'll be taken the screen on IMAGE 3 below. Set it as I've shown.

Notice that Audio is track #8 and that the first empty track on which to write the first harmony track is #10. For this reason, I chose "11" as my first harmony track (#5 on IMAGE 3)

4. Click OK

5. When you get to the next screen (IMAGE 4), set it as I've shown.

What to look at...

• I've turned down the volume of the input track 8 to zero (#1)
• #2 shows which setting refers to Harmony Down and which refers to Harmony Up.
• I've left the volume settings where they were. If you want to make volumes louder, slide these upwards.
• #4 I've set the "Harmony Down" to sound a little more masculine (the 'M' setting)
• #5 I've set the "Harmony Up" to be a little more feminine (the 'F' setting)
• #6 I've added a natural vibrato to "Harmony Up"

6. Leave everything else as is and click on "Generate" on the right side of the dialogue box. IMAGE 5 shows the harmony tracks written to Realband tracks 11 and 12.

After I played around with volume levels -- I raised all the MIDI volumes and lowered the Audio track volume a little...you'll find mp3 files of my results at the end of the post.

NOTE: I only used Coyote WT to play the MIDI backing. With either Realtracks or a superior soft synth these mp3 files would sound much better.


I hope this helps.

It's slow going for you because we're in different parts of the world. We'll get there, though. You're doing amazingly well!

Regards,
Noel

P.S. You might like to have a look through video clips at the below PG Music site.

REALBAND
https://www.pgmusic.com/videos.realband.htm

BIAB
https://www.pgmusic.com/videos.bbwin.htm

こんにちは ライミン,

I've just been made aware of this link by rharv, a long time BIAB/RB user. It contains the winners of a harmony contest using TC Helicon.

https://www.pgmusic.com/tutorial_audioharmonies.htm

You might be interested in the site.

Regards,
Noel

Hi Noel, I just recorded my voice using Realband. My voice track still delays tiny bit from other tracks. You explained me how to move one track to Aline with others on Reaper before. Could we do the same thing on Realband as easy as on Reaper?

Absolutely turn off snap to grid and click and drag the track. Also check the levels of the sound card input and the track levels and make sure it is not too low. You can use the audio level increase option inside RB or use a dynamics plugin or several other options to bring the recorded levels up

Hi ライミン,

...adding onto Rob's post above, the following quote is found on page 54 of the Realband 2020 (English) pdf manual. This will help. The manual is accessed under the "Help" menu.




Here's how I go about moving audio in Realband (RB). I'm old-school -- this will give you a couple of ways to do things.

PART 1 of 3

FIRSTLY... Here's how I move a section of audio.

I've loaded the PG Music demo called "\bb\Documention | Tutorials - Audio Harmony | LISTEN.SGU". I encourage you to work through this with me.

1. Set the resolution of Realband quarter notes to 120 PPQ.

The easiest way to do this is to deactivate the "Convert PPQ of loaded files to:" and then RB's parts per quarter note will be 120 ticks. (See IMAGE 1 below and follow the 1, 2, 3, 4.)

2. Right-click on any RB track and select "Grid" from the right-click menu (#1) and then set it to 16th note. (See IMAGE 2 below.)

This means that vertical grid-lines will appear every 1/16th note. Thus each quarter-note will have 4 gridlines.

Now because a quarter note consists of 120 ticks, this means that each 1/16th note will consist of 30 ticks. (File this away in your mind for later use.)

3. Activate "Snap to grid". (IMAGE 3)


continued on the next post...

PART 2 of 3

Moving audio in Realband continued...

Now it's necessary to estimate how much to move the audio. To do this...

4. Listen to the audio. It's easy to hear the the beat 1 timing is not quite correct. For jazz, though, this is fine. For the purposes of this exercise, I want to line-up the word "Listen" so that it plays on beat 1.

The highest point on the the first syllable's blob (i.e. the wave diagram of the sound) is where the main part of the syllable "Li-" occurs.

Since I know that each 1/16th note is 30 ticks, when I look at the highest point on the syllable "Li-", I can see that it's about 26-27 ticks after beat 1 (IMAGE 4). I can tell this because it's not quite up to the 1/16th note gridline.

I'll use 27 and pull the audio back 27 ticks.

5. Now I select a region around the audio that I want to move (IMAGE 5).

6. Select "Cut" from the Edit Menu (or the "Cut" icon or CTRL+X).

On my example, the audio is cut from (bar)=0 (beat)=4 (ticks)=90 -- this is the START of the blue selected area of the WAV.

7. Select "Paste" from the edit menu (or the "Paste" icon or CTRL+V).

When I paste it, I need to move the audio 27 ticks to the left. So instead of pasting it a 0 4 90, I take 27 off the 90 and paste it at 0 4 63 (See IMAGE 6)

8. The top of the "Li-" blob now lines up with beat 1. (IMAGE 6)

If you play the song, you will hear the difference.


continued on next post...

PART 3 of 3

Moving audio in Realband continued...

Now to move the whole audio track.


What I do is this...

1. Cut the blank couple of bars at the beginning of the audio track. Do this by...

(a) select just the first region of the track (I'd have "snap to grid" on)

(b) click on "cut" (this section is not pasted anywhere)


2. Using the waveform, estimate how far away from the beat, the first syllable of your vocals is. (Just like I did in the above the "Listen".)

3. Now click on the Audio track and press CTRL+A to select it all.

4. CTRL+X (or press "Cut") and, like before, make a note of the "From Bar, Beat, Ticks".

5. CTRL+V (or press "Paste") and adjust the bar, beats, ticks setting to the new value.

There you have it.


In future, what I suggest you do is to use ASIO or Windows Audio for your audio driver when you record. If you do this, you probably will not have to adjust the audio track at all.

If you don't have an ASIO driver for your soundcard, download ASIO4ALL from the below site and install it. It's free and its what I use. BIAB and RB work with this driver.

http://www.asio4all.org/

To change Audio Drivers, have a look at IMAGE 7.


NOTE: If you use Windows Audio (WAS in BIAB) or ASIO, it's possible that you will not hear audio in other programs if RB is open. If you change RB audio back to MME after recording, this problem won't occur. Also, if RB is closed, this won't be a problem either.

Hi again ライミン,

I've just read through this thread again and I have to say.... Wow! You've learnt a lot!

You must be starting to feel a little more comfortable with the software now. You've covered some pretty advanced processes.

All the best,
Noel

Hi Noel, thanks a lot AGAIN for spending your time and efforts to explain step by step. I’ll go through all the information above and get back to you soon.

Hi Noel, I recorded my voice successfully on Realband. Then tried to harmonize the track on Realband. Unfortunately my computer stopped working. I had to force shut it and tried it again. Same thing happened. My computer doesn’t like Realband harmonizer for some reasons.
To be continued.

Good morning ライミン,

I have Windows 7 and everything that I've posted here I tested first. It worked for me.

Have you tried running your computer in Administrator Mode? This is different from logging in into Windows as Admin. To enter Admnistrator Mode, right-click on the Realband startup shortcut and then select "Run As Administrator".

• If this solves the problem, you can set "Run as administrator" permanently by right-clicking on the short-cut, selecting "Properties" and then, under the Compatibility tab, set the option.

Because my folder permissions were inherited from a Windows Vista computer that I had, I cannot run RB without using Administrator Mode.

Also, with your Antivirus software, it's a good idea to exclude the \bb and \Realband directories. This usually speeds things up (but it shouldn't stop things working).

One more thing, when running TC Helicon, make sure that your Audio Driver is set to MME. This is the driver that seems most stable when trying to work out what causes a problem. (Setting the audio driver is in "PART 3 of 3" above.)

Lastly, if you had to use CTRL+ALT+DEL to start Task Manager to close RB, it's possible that vertical scrolling of the tracks in RB is not properly set. (I've reported this to the developers.) To set this, have a look at the image below and set the "Tracks" screen to maximum size.

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Noel

Two things.

. The instructions I provided you earlier will work with any audio you record that is out of sync due to latency. It's a one button selection in the audio editor of BIAB. So if you want to stay with trying to record with a computer DAW, make a backing track, record a vocal track and sync the vocal and backing track in the BIAB audio editor.

I think a better solution for you is:

. If the above statement you made above is true. Reverse how you are currently recording and create your BIAB backing track to a stereo audio file. Purchase a stand alone digital recorder, load your BIAB stereo backing track onto the SD card of the digital recorder and you will instantly eliminate all of the above issues and solutions you've encountered so far. You literally and physically can be finished with a song perfectly recorded in sync between your singing and the recorded backing track within 10 minutes of taking the digital recorder out of the box...

If your goal is to make a stereo backing track, mix vocals and backing vocals similar to the posts you've made in the past, I recommend the model below. There are other versions that are smaller and cheaper but this specific model has the specific features included so that you can complete your project without having to send all your recorded tracks back into a computer DAW. Here, you will create your musical backing tracks in BIAB and export that into the external recorder, record your vocals on the external recorder. There will not be any latency.

The Tascam DP-008ex is designed to do what you want. The next size up, the DP-03SD has even more editing and effects than the DP-008ex if you want a more polished recording.

You've spent nearly 3 weeks on this issue and haven't resolved it yet. There's also no promise that a future update on your computer won't mess everything up again. You can have a stand alone, digital multi track recorder in a few days and record for the next 20 plus years without issues.

Here's what I specifically recommend you get = https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DP008EX--tascam-dp-008ex-8-track-digital-portastudio

Hi guys, I had a couple of days to cool down my over heated brain after your last postings on 23rd. Then yesterday, it was my short term goal to complete at least one tune with harmony. Here are things I did.

I recorded my voice with Reaper by plugin. BIAB bar cursor wasn’t in-sync. I ignored it for now. Bigger problem than that was BIAB bar settings weren’t functioning. I muted certain instruments at certain bars during a song in BIAB. Non of the settings were working. BIAB played all the instruments all time. I ignored it too for this time. But I want to know the solution for this problem later if I can.

Then I rendered vocal track only in wav file and imported it in BIAB and harmonized it. I won’t let you listen to it. Cuz my singing isn’t making my standard unfortunately. I was too tired physically and mentally to do a few more takes to get better voice recording.

There was another difficulty while I was arranging this one tune. I’m sure this one is a minor problem for you guys to give me a solution. When I tried to insert a guitar solo in this tune, I couldn’t cut and paste a few bars cuz I didn’t know how to highlight the part on Reaper. I was so tired to investigate it further. Could you tell me how?

Anyhow, I did this particular task above, cut and paste, using Audacity to complete my project on time.

In Reaper, at least the theme I'm using, you place the cursor in the track info bar, just above the wave display for the track you want to highlight .. then drag

Which reminds me I still need to get my old theme back on this new machine

Hi again!

I'm glad to hear that you brain has cooled


There are 3 reasons that I can think of that would cause the bar settings not to sound....

1. The song wasn't regenerated after the settings were added... each time bar settings are made or modified, the song needs to be regenerated.

2. Tracks are frozen -- the "freeze' icon is the snow crystal on the rights of "S" on the mixer. This will be light blue if it is on. Just click on it if it is blue and it will deactivate. Now regenerate the song.

3. An audio file of BIAB's backing has been made... if you saved BIAB's backing to audio (wav, mp3, etc) then that audio is saved in the same folder as the song file. Every time you open the song file the audio will be loaded along with the song file and it will play along with BIAB.

Now if the audio was created before you set the tracks coming in and out of the song, you will have an audio file with no bar settings playing along with a song file that has bar settings. The end result will be that it sounds like the settings are not working.

If an audio file is present, click "Audio" then select "Edit Audio | Kill entire audio" on the very top menu and then select "Kill Audio". This will delete the audio file.

Now regenerate the song and play it and the settings will work.



Excellent! I'm glad you've got it working.

If you successfully recorded audio, that would have used the Audio track. Since BIAB only has a single audio track, any song file that was saved to audio (as I mentioned above), would have been overwritten. This means the muting problem is either due to #1 or #2 above.



I highlight a section in Reaper by holding the left mouse button down and dragging across the top display of bars and beats. This creates a selection and it can be fine-tuned by dragging the end markers in or out. Pressing ESC will remove the selection. See the image below.

Once you've selected a region. Scroll to the track you want to copy from, right-click on the track and select "Copy selected area of items" -- it's about 2/3rds of the way down the menu. CTRL+V will paste the copied section.

Hope this helps,
Noel

Thanks guys. Sorry that I’ve been away from this forum for a while. I’ve got an offer to perform at a restaurant next weekend. I was psychologically busy for the preparation.

I will come back and study you guys suggestions the following week. Talk to you soon. Ciao.

All the best with your restaurant gig!