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#574682 - 01/07/20 11:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rustyspoon#]
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JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
I rather skip a year of RT's in exchange for major software cleanup/tune-up. I am couple of years in and I only explored about 25% of what is in the BOX. Content is huge!

A HUGE -1 to this!

The new RealTracks are the ONLY reason I buy the upgrade every year. RealTracks is the one thing PGM does excellently and consistently year after year! The new features marketing never proves to be of value to me once I dive into each upgrade. Never. But the RealTracks ALWAYS deliver.

The year the upgrade includes no RealTracks is the year I DON'T upgrade.

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#574693 - 01/07/20 11:36 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
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Pipeline Offline
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There maybe be staff that just put the RealTracks, Drums, MST... together, they may not be programmers that fix bug and implement new features.
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#574704 - 01/07/20 11:56 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rob Helms]
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Rustyspoon# Offline
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I do not mind if Program & Content is separated and sold individually at slight increase in price of each, to satisfy needs of someone like JJJ. Discounted if bought together and discounted further for loyal / annual customers. Whatever it takes to get the software up to the level it deserves to be.

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#574718 - 01/07/20 12:29 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rob Helms]
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Pipeline Offline
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I was replying to JJJ's post but it keep deleting my post so I though JJJ's post has been deleted and yes it has, by JJJ or Admin ?????


This was a post I made in the wishlist More than 6 + 1 Instruments....

Quote:
more audio tracks, more midi tracks
no more 8.3 file names and 8th note chord resolution
real time signatures, i.e. not be limited to 2/4, 3/4, and 4/4

Biab was designed as an accompaniment program with styles like a keyboard,
everything in Biab seems to be built on 8.3, 255, rounded tempos and mock time signatures.
RealBand was suppose to take care of all this.


What way do you go ?
Put more resources into the Biab Plugin ?
Create a whole new product ?
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#574719 - 01/07/20 12:39 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: jazzmammal]
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MarioD Offline
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Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
............

This all goes back to my guess, because I really have no information about it, that none of those things are possible without a completely rewritten brand new version of the source code. They're not willing or unable to go that far so here we are. Still a great program and I use it a lot.

Bob


I agree. I think that PGMusic is locked into that old code. Plus with a lot of users using only RTs, with many only using RB, there is no reason to do a complete rewrite. I think that it is just those of us whom go from BiaB to another DAW that want the rewrite.

Like you I use BiaB a lot. However I have been noticing that a number of other companies are far ahead of PGMusic when it comes to the MIDI side. That might cause a few users to leave. YMMV
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#574726 - 01/07/20 01:05 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rob Helms]
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beatmaster Offline
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I agree. I think that PGMusic is locked into that old code. Plus with a lot of users using only RTs, with many only using RB, there is no reason to do a complete rewrite. I think that it is just those of us whom go from BiaB to another DAW that want the rewrite.


You would think that PG Music would just say their reasons and that would be that !!?.
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#574743 - 01/07/20 02:18 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Masi]
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VideoTrack Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
I rather skip a year of RT's in exchange for major software cleanup/tune-up.


Before this year's release I suggested that I'd be more than happy to just see a handful of existing issues resolved, and in response got questioned on 'how would that bring in new customers?'

I would still prefer to see a number of significant issues and shortcomings fixed. The ones that are endlessly requested.
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#574800 - 01/07/20 04:56 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Pipeline]
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JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Originally Posted By: Pipeline
I was replying to JJJ's post but it keep deleting my post so I though JJJ's post has been deleted and yes it has, by JJJ or Admin ?????

They have deleted several of my posts recently. Oh well.

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#575736 - 01/12/20 02:59 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: VideoTrack]
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rayc Offline
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Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
'how would that bring in new customers?'

It always comes to this which is very worrying because a company that can't see that offering a better resolved/debugged/tested and stable program is good for new business is short sighted in terms of service & product.
I'm really uninterested in the masses of MIDI and most of the RTs offered in 2020. I am interested in improvements in chord wizard etc as I use those things often, (dealing with a singers who send me an unaccompanied sung melody or helping resurrect someone's old tracks etc.), but with the history of FIXES needed for any new roll out and the apparent instability of this current one I'm not pulling the trigger for all the stuff I don't want at least until the stuff I'm interested in has settled.


Edited by rayc (01/12/20 03:02 PM)
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#575847 - 01/13/20 05:02 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: VideoTrack]
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Masi Offline
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Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
[quote=Rustyspoon#]Before this year's release I suggested that I'd be more than happy to just see a handful of existing issues resolved, and in response got questioned on 'how would that bring in new customers?'

This is is a very simple-minded approach. Fixing bugs will make existing customers who will recommend it to others. This will make the chance higher for people becoming new customers.

I doubt that anyone who is not already a customers cares about how many styles or real tracks have been added. They may be convinced to buy a particular new version if some new feature has been added that is of use to them. But only if there has been at least some interest in previous versions.

Currently I think what may puts off people is the horrible old-fashioned UI, the quirky dialog boxes, etc. It makes the impressions that the company doesn't really care for the product (which I know isn't true at all). I hated to the look and feel when I first so the product and still hate is to this day. The only reason I bought it was that I knew I shouldn't judge a book by its cover. I can do with the looks, but the usability of some areas of BiaB is IMHO still sub-par. Possibly not changed because of lak of interest or not to annoy long-time users who no the quirks inside-out.

Masi
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#575901 - 01/13/20 10:27 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rob Helms]
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jford Offline
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Quote:
Possibly not changed because of lak of interest or not to annoy long-time users who no the quirks inside-out.


As a very long time user, I'm happy to invest the time to learn a new modern interface and even a new way of doing things (workflow), as long as I have a roadmap that crosswalks the new way to do things (versus the old way).
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#575905 - 01/13/20 11:26 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rob Helms]
Registered: 04/07/13
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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<<< I doubt that anyone who is not already a customers cares about how many styles or real tracks have been added. They may be convinced to buy a particular new version if some new feature has been added that is of use to them. But only if there has been at least some interest in previous versions. >>>

BIAB is getting some new and good exposure on Facebook by Joanne Cooper and Herb Hartley. Songs are being posted, new purchasers of the programs are posting, asking questions and contributing new and fresh ideas. More seasoned users are answering questions and providing guidance and tips to people that have an interest in the program but haven't made a purchase yet. They are learning the benefits of purchasing packages above the base 'pro pak' and what having as many styles and RealTracks provide more than just more styles and RealTracks. I personally haven't seen posts where just the GUI has been a deal breaker to a first timer to purchase the program but some have been swayed toward purchase by the power and benefits of the latest release and the quantity and quality of styles and RealTracks.
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#576045 - 01/14/20 07:01 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Charlie Fogle]
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Rustyspoon# Offline
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Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
I personally haven't seen posts where just the GUI has been a deal breaker to a first timer to purchase the program


Me. I almost jumped the ship, specifically because GUI scared me, and believe me I have patience. So there you have it smile

GUI is turning people away in a BIG way (I can't stress this enough!). The full screen "View" looks "sort" of ok, but needs work. Like modular/re-sizable buttons/menus and something done with the mixer --> Auto hide / auto expand... Full 16 channels channels Midi or RT. Oh yes, endless 90s style menus. Having the functions is a good thing. They just have to be sorted and presented well.

Years ago I had a website that had very specific things made for me. When it was time to update/upgrade it, there was a dilemma as the graphics were written into the code. So what we done is designed all graphics separately as CSS and connected old code functions to it. It worked fine for a few years until it was time to re-write the website. But when we did, the graphics were an "easy" move, because design did not change. If the design needs to be adjusted, it is pain free process now, since it is not tangled in the code. I am not a programmer, but I wonder if this is possible with BIAB? To design GUI that can be used with old code and separate enough to be used in the future, if at some time BIAB will be re-done?

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#576121 - 01/14/20 03:35 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rustyspoon#]
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Pipeline Offline
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Here's a GUI idea:


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#576200 - 01/15/20 06:45 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 04/07/13
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
I personally haven't seen posts where just the GUI has been a deal breaker to a first timer to purchase the program


Me. I almost jumped the ship, specifically because GUI scared me, and believe me I have patience. So there you have it smile

GUI is turning people away in a BIG way (I can't stress this enough!). The full screen "View" looks "sort" of ok, but needs work. Like modular/re-sizable buttons/menus and something done with the mixer --> Auto hide / auto expand... Full 16 channels channels Midi or RT. Oh yes, endless 90s style menus. Having the functions is a good thing. They just have to be sorted and presented well.

Years ago I had a website that had very specific things made for me. When it was time to update/upgrade it, there was a dilemma as the graphics were written into the code. So what we done is designed all graphics separately as CSS and connected old code functions to it. It worked fine for a few years until it was time to re-write the website. But when we did, the graphics were an "easy" move, because design did not change. If the design needs to be adjusted, it is pain free process now, since it is not tangled in the code. I am not a programmer, but I wonder if this is possible with BIAB? To design GUI that can be used with old code and separate enough to be used in the future, if at some time BIAB will be re-done?


I don't disagree with you that newcomers are put off by and overwhelmed by their initial introduction to the GUI. I just don't think it's an appearance and coding issue. It's more their lack of musical knowledge and their end result expectations from BIAB songs. You're correct about the complexity of the GUI also because the entry package of BIAB, the PRO Pak, core program is the same as every Pak including Audiophile. The least is as complex as the greatest.

The genius of BIAB/RB is not its simplicity but its complexity. The genius is BIAB's lone and unique ability to search for, capture, and compile realistic, complete compositions in thousands of styles by thousands of instruments from thousands of hours in studio quality environments by top session musicians.

I think there needs to be a version of the program designed in the same manner that most DAW's have today, a lite version having advanced features locked that is focused on novice level knowledge and use and most functions being automated. Perhaps have a limited RealTrack combo package and limited additional RealTracks like the Pro Pak but improve the midi portion of the program to all Hi-Q package supplied midi instruments with super midi soloists and the program is supplied with a limited amount of midi files that are complete commercial released songs that have been licensed for BIAB use similar to how Guitar Hero game was structured. Beginners could purchase an entry copy of BIAB that would open these licensed midi songs and these songs would sound good with the chord chart populated at opening, an appropriate midi H-Q style selected for the particular song, ready for the user to play and sing along with. Users could switch out to RealTrack combos from the default midi style. It could be a pre-programmed package of licensed commercial songs based on midi file songs targeted for novice users and karaoke performers and small performance acts that perform with tracks.

I like it that you didn't jump ship due to the GUI. My personal experience remains intact. wink
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#576205 - 01/15/20 07:17 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rob Helms]
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Rob Helms Offline
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I posted this in the plugin forum but I think it is valid here.


I realize the plugin is not top priority here. The core or flagship product Band in a Box is. However I feel after two development cycles the plugin should at the very minimum be higher on the food chain. It still has several areas where it needs attention in order for the plugin to be truly useable.

1. Render or sync to Tempo
2. Render Flat
3. Render Dry
4. Render Center pan
5. MIDI Drums not matching to Real Drums (in Studio One)
7. Bar settings (change style is not changing style)

Let’s just be real for a minute. No one thinks that BiaB is not the flagship here but to keep the plug in as an add on is being very short sited. There are so many more DAW users out there compared to those that use BiaB that it is silly not to focus on this product. BiaB is feature rich, and most users never scratch the surface. If it never received another single new feature it would be a fine product. For now just fix the dozen old bugs people have been asking about for years. Focus your attention on this plugin and attract the tens of thousands of young DAW users who will never use BiaB, but would love to have a ripping cool plugin to pound out track bases for song creation.

I think this product is key to the future of PGM, and in fact BiaB as a whole.

If you think I’m wrong imagine this. If PGM had not created RTs and RDs how many would still use it, and how many new users would have bought it. I can tell you I would not have updated it faithfully like I have if not for real tracks!

Peter, The plugin is your new RTs, another breath of life into your company for the future.

My reason to post this not to slow down BiaB, but to point out that getting the plugin done to its original mission, that of a source of adding basic tracks into a DAW of choice. It is close now but needs a few things. Finish the mission and break it out into its own program a VSTi (or other format) plugin for sale to the masses. Bundle it with all rock RTs, or all Jazz RTs, or all Country RTs, etc.

Doing this give PGM a direct route into the millions of DAW users that would never dive into BiaB proper. Allowing revenue to flow in to do as others want and take a breath and modernize BiaB.
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#576252 - 01/15/20 11:38 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Charlie Fogle]
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Rustyspoon# Offline
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Why a good thread was moved out of sight? Questions, questions...

Charlie: Quote:
"The genius of BIAB/RB is not its simplicity but its complexity"
------------>
I think this is why I feel you are wrong. You are talking about "abilities and functions". The genius in my opinion is to make complex things eatable "out of the box" smile

Again, here:
"I just don't think it's an appearance and coding issue."
It is about appearance (and workflow!) Charlie, you are still missing the point!

We are not talking about You and me. We are talking about the future (topic theme) and future followers?!

Yes, You + me & couple of thousand boys and girls will accept the software as it is, learn all scattered pop up menus and functions hidden in random places and move on with their lives. New kids will come, look at it and say: "Gimme mymoni back!" and slap a negative feedback somewhere in high traffic area. Nobody needs that. We need people who will open it it, press couple of intuitive buttons and fall in love with it. And only then decide how far they want to experience it.

BIAB has to be:
Appealing and inviting, menus sorted, cleaned and put in a more logical sorted way. Get rid of 90s BoX menues. This is not hard to do. At least far not the hardest thing to do.

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#576369 - 01/16/20 05:31 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rob Helms]
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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You - <<< The genius in my opinion is to make complex things eatable "out of the box

It is about appearance (and workflow!)

We are talking about the future (topic theme) and future followers?

We need people who will open it it, press couple of intuitive buttons and fall in love with it. >>>

Me- In my last paragraph I agree with you and said that I think there needs to be a version of the program designed to be a pre-programmed package of licensed commercial songs based on midi file songs targeted for novice users and karaoke performers and small performance acts that perform with tracks. Where people open it, press a couple of intuitive buttons and fall in love with it. That's all about appearance and easy workflow. That's our future and our future followers. I agree.

There's no genius to that. That's all sales marketing. Many software programs have scaled down 'lite' versions. Every major DAW has free, lite versions and most ship them free in hardware packages.

I get it and you are totally correct. You're in the majority. This future you forecast is here now. Prospective buyers hear about BIAB, check it out and for the first time in their lives, they see the opportunity to sing along or record with a real band... or the amateur song writer can record that album and get the studio backing tracks he wants. All of that is in the package and there for the taking. They purchase the package, Install it. Fire up BIAB and there's that ugly, non intuitive GUI!!

Yes, you are correct. The future must be addressed. You're right, the future is a lot about appearance and workflow, automation of complex musical theory and simplifying musical based selections.

But, just like life, good looks and holding one's hand navigating through complex situations can only get you so far...







Edited by Charlie Fogle (01/16/20 05:41 AM)
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#576424 - 01/16/20 11:50 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rob Helms]
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Rustyspoon# Offline
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Since this thread was (?!) moved to "wishlist" lets switch to wish mode.

Charlie, you are still missing my point smile
There is nothing wrong with complexity. I am not in favor of dumbing down BIAB (for some reason I think you believe that I am)
I want workflow / menus! / features, sorted properly and presented neatly, logically and the last but not the least for menu items to look pretty. It is very far from that now. <---If you disagree with this, you do not have to read further.

Albert Einstein... I am almost certain that first thought that comes to mind of most people is "MESSY HAIR", but that was his appearance signature. I do not believe that it is in anybody's interest for BIAB to be associated with messy appearance.

I do not agree with you that there should be different versions (complexity levels) of BIAB. Cakewalk has "Lenses", or what they recently started to call "Work Spaces" were users decide what to show and how to show it. It does not take complexity or the features out of the program!

Peter & Co, did the GUI tune-up several years ago. The full screen mode does look clean,as a FRONT PAGE. I still would prefer changing minor things and have the menus modular/resizable, but overall it is OK looking. Presentable.

The problem items as far as appearance and basic functions are:

1) Mixer, which should be redesigned and have at least 16 channels available for RTs and/or MIDI! (Without saying something like "It is already there... IT IS NOT! You can make a bear ride a motorcycle and say "yes, it is possible" and "it was designed that way")

Mixer should also have autohide or similar visual approach. I personally would prefer Autohide (as Videotrack sketched up) and tracks on demand - show basic set of tracks and have a magic "+" button to add channels.


2) Endless pop up menus in random places, with poor sorting by type or logic. Clunky 90's boxes, which pop up in random places of the screen.














Edited by Rustyspoon# (01/16/20 12:16 PM)

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#576429 - 01/16/20 01:24 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 12/27/03
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Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
.........................
Peter & Co, did the GUI tune-up several years ago. The full screen mode does look clean,as a FRONT PAGE. I still would prefer changing minor things and have the menus modular/resizable, but overall it is OK looking. Presentable.

The problem items as far as appearance and basic functions are:

1) Mixer, which should be redesigned and have at least 16 channels available for RTs and/or MIDI! (Without saying something like "It is already there... IT IS NOT! You can make a bear ride a motorcycle and say "yes, it is possible" and "it was designed that way")

Mixer should also have autohide or similar visual approach. I personally would prefer Autohide (as Videotrack sketched up) and tracks on demand - show basic set of tracks and have a magic "+" button to add channels.


2) Endless pop up menus in random places, with poor sorting by type or logic. Clunky 90's boxes, which pop up in random places of the screen.

....................


I agree.
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"Been using it for so many years. It's a great tool. The instruments that I don't have or play make up the void and it saves so much time. I use this program for every song I write."

"Great tool for the songwriter!"

"An essential part of my studio! I write songs on piano, but I'm not a pianist by a long way. BIAB is like having a roomful of session players in your studio, and just the simple act of taking your basic idea and hearing a skilled pianist play it presents so many new ideas and options you hadn't thought of."

"Powerful, easy to use, inexpensive and they even split the modest payments up if you want. No complaints. Lots of satisfaction."

"I added a steel guitar to a fully produced original. He followed every change like he was in the studio reading the chart. Fascinating technology!"

"I have used it to make backing tracks for six CD's with about 12 songs on each. They make a great gift!"

"It's simply a necessity - buy it now - the staff and support do a great job as well!"

"A great tool for us songwriters!"

"I LOVE Band-in-a-Box!"

"I see it as a very worthwhile investment. In fact, from initial purchase about 8 years ago, using the backing tracks I have made, my income from that investment has returned over 5,000% on the investment!"

continued...

Do you have something to say about Band-in-a-Box®? Post your own thoughts for Windows or Mac version today!

Band-in-a-Box® - Boxing Clever - Sound on Sound #TBT

Did you know that Band-in-a-Box® is more than 30 years old? I stumbled across this 1990 magazine article explaining the relatively new program, and think it's an enjoyable read for any Band-in-a-Box user - it really shows that we are always listening to user feedback when developing our program!

Read the article: Boxing Clever: Band-In-A-Box Software

A few of my favorite statements:

"The intention of PG Music's Band-In-A-Box package is to couple that speed and convenience with the improved flexibility of the personal computer. Versions are available for the Atari ST, Mac, and PC compatibles. Have the programmers succeeded? And can they rid themselves of the stigma of the auto-accompaniment section? Given the above state of affairs, the first hurdle that the program has to overcome is one of acceptance and, frankly, a name like 'Band-In-A-Box' is a bad start."

(I think our name was a great start!)

"The final results are, to say the least, impressive. Band-In-A-Box achieves something that most hardwired auto-accompaniment sections have never been able to do - inject a degree of feel into the music. It really does sound more human than so many of the computer generated pieces I've heard."

"...I'm quite convinced that PG Music will have a winner on their hands. This is one piece of software that you can get more out of than you put in."

#TipTuesday Convert RealDrums to MIDI!

Did you know that you can convert RealDrums to MIDI?

VintageGibson shared this tip to our Tips & Tricks forum, which is a great place to look for program tips from other Band-in-a-Box users!

Read this handy trick.

Have a program tip or trick of your own? Share it on our Tips & Tricks forum today!

Band-in-a-Box® 2021 Italian for Mac is Here!

Abbiamo lavorato tanto e abbiamo aggiunto 80 nuove funzionalità e una straordinaria collezione di nuovi contenuti, tra cui 202 RealTracks, nuovi RealStyles, SuperTracks MIDI, Studi Strumentali, Performance degli Artisti, Bonus RealDrums "Singoli", trascrizioni RealDrums, MultiStyles PAK 1, Xtra Styles PAKs 10 e 11, e altro ancora!

Pacchetti | Nuove Caratteristiche

Export / Print a List of Selected Styles (Band-in-a-Box®)

Did you know that you can export a list of your Styles from Band-in-a-Box®?

Head to this forum post in our "Tips & Tricks" forum, where VideoTrack shares another handy tip for Band-in-a-Box® users!

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