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Songwriting
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Played some music with a couple of guys last night. One fellow has some good tunes. Not much of an arranger. Songs wander a bit.
I Mentioned the idea of charting out some of his stuff so we could work up arrangements and learn tunes faster. He's interested but has little knowledge.
Wondering if any forum members know any videos links or sites that might demonstrate a simple concise way of charting out songs. I found one online but its specific to a drummer's view of tune. Need more of a singer songwriter approach. His stuff is fairly common intro/verse/chorus perhaps a bridge stuff.
Charting them out in BIAB is too much work at this point. Really just want to do it on paper to start. Chord changes over bars is mostly what we need.
I'm happy to work with him to get started but I don't want responsibility for charting out 50 tunes. Its really his job If I help get him the tools, show him how to use them, and he does the work,perhaps I'll use the arrangements to build backing tracks in BIAB.
I'd like to help him and ultimately play out on his book.
I'll also need to find him a metronome.
Thanks
biab2023(Mac) Logic Pro X
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Joined: Aug 2012
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THE best way to do this is to learn the Nashville Number System. It is easy to learn. If everyone learns it (again...not hard), the band can almost immediately play what is expected (from reading the chart - so easy to read!!) I'd recommend the original Nashville Number System "bible" - by Chas Williams. https://www.amazon.com/Nashville-Number-System-Chas-Williams/dp/0963090674And there are untold numbers of YouTube video that can help you "get it" quickly...
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Songwriting
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Joined: Dec 2018
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Hey, fj. I have the Nashville Number System Fake Book by Hal Leonard. It's been helpful. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1495014096/Do you know if there is sufficient additional info in the Williams book for me to pick that up as well. TIA
ThinkPad i9 32GB RAM 7TB SSD; Win11 Pro; PreSonus Studio 1810c; BiaB 2024 Ultra Studio One 6 Pro; MuseScore 4; Melodyne 5 Studio; Acoustica Premium 7; Guitar Pro 8 Gig Performer 4; NI S61 MK3; Focal Shape 65; Beyerdynamic DT 880 & 770
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Songwriting
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Joined: Aug 2012
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I haven't seen the Hal Leonard book. From the description it seems like it must have a relatively short, quick explanation of the system and then gives you charts of 200 songs.
The Chas Williams book has 38 pages explaining the system. So I doubt the Fake book could cover all aspects of the system (though it is not a complicated system). Reading that many charts - the 200 in the Fake book - (if written correctly) could certainly teach you a lot about it. The remainder of the Chas Williams book (mine has 80 pages total) is handwritten charts from the Nashville elite who were the first to use it extensively...
Pretty much everyone in Nashville learns it from the Chas Williams book. It is the "standard".
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Songwriting
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 326
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 326 |
ThinkPad i9 32GB RAM 7TB SSD; Win11 Pro; PreSonus Studio 1810c; BiaB 2024 Ultra Studio One 6 Pro; MuseScore 4; Melodyne 5 Studio; Acoustica Premium 7; Guitar Pro 8 Gig Performer 4; NI S61 MK3; Focal Shape 65; Beyerdynamic DT 880 & 770
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Songwriting
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Joined: Oct 2016
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While you are at it, I'd get him started with Band in a Box as soon as possible, so he can learn to apply the 1-4-5-6minor, hear the arrangements, and become familiar with the 4, 8, 12 and 16 bar format, which is most songs. You wouldn't really be doing him a favor by doing it for him. Back in the day, singer/songwriters sang along while strumming the chords and marking up the lyrics one-two-three-four. That wandering indicates he needs work in meters -- poetry.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 723
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edshaw, I appreciate your comment. You are spot on about poetic meter. Not sure iambic pentameter is in his vocabulary.
I personally arrange a lot of my own stuff directly on biab. I find it an extremely useful tool for working through alternate harmonies as well as the overall song arrangement. I'm just not sure of the resources and/or technical capabilities of the guy to handle biab. Really don't wish to get into tech support yet/again.
The Nashville number system is useful to me as a player but may not apply here either.
I think step one is just music paper, bar lines for measures, chords and some rudimentary explanation of intro, verse, chorus, bridge. A pencil with a big eraser and a metronome.
Give him enough to get started and see what he does with it. If he rises to the occasion, help him some more. If he doesn't, time to move on.
biab2023(Mac) Logic Pro X
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Songwriting
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I think you are moving in on the right decision, mrgeeze, on that. That staff paper that you turned up looks like the ticket. It has room for the lyrics and you could even note the rhythms in the bars, or measures, with hash tags. He'll be composing like a pro in no time.
Last edited by edshaw; 01/29/20 04:16 AM.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Jul 2002
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Will you please post the specific link to the site that help you generate the chart The link points to
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Songwriting
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Joined: Mar 2004
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Here's my approach to this;
I first look to see if a relationship with this artist is going to work. What's his commitment level? How often can we get together? Is he stubborn about not letting me change his songs? Is it a genre that I feel good working in? Are his songs put together well enough to work with? Is he flexible and willing to relearn the song/s the way I/we arrange them? Does he pay? Many other factors. The last thing I want to do is commit my time and effort on a project that dies while I'm in the middle of it.
If all seems well enough I try to pick his simplest or perhaps highest potential song to work with for starters. I don't want that to be the one he is working on right now and all excited about and I don't want the one he is stuck on having trouble completing. I want to start with something he's been singing for a while and has his lyrics memorized. I have him write out the lyrics and chords if he knows them. I record a basic mono track on one microphone or a cell phone of him singing and playing the song on whatever his instrument is. I then "fix" the song. That is; I put his phrasing in time, his notes and chords into a key, I decide on a tempo, I arrange it into verses, chorus, bridge, etc,... Or, it might be a strophic type of song or a 12 bar blues which tend to fall into their own arrangements. I do this song fixing on acoustic guitar in private while he is not around to give input or interrupt my flow. BTW, I don't tell him I am going to fix the song. I don't use that word with him. I just say,"okay, now that I have your recording, your lyrics and chords let me see what I can do with it this week." I then basically learn his song but my way. And, that depends how sloppy it was when I got a hold of it. Make a new chord chart and a basic recording with a metronome (or basic drum beat), acoustic guitar and me singing it. I want it to sound pretty good when he hears me sing it or hears my recorded arrangement of it. Fortunately I'm a decent guitarist and have a pretty good voice so that helps. I also use some compression, EQ, reverb and such so it doesn't sound completely dry. By now, enough time has gone into it that I want to see if it passes his smell test. I send him an updated song/chord chart and an mp3 and wait. Or, if I think I can come up with a basic Band In A Box arrangement quickly I'll do that, line up my guitar and vocal track with it and send him that. But, the BIAB style I use might be to far from what he intends the song to be. It's often better to keep it similar to his melody and basic guitar strumming with a very basic drum beat or metronome. Let the band turn it into their own style of song. At this point I have to let him talk and I listen for his feedback. This will tell me if we're on the right track or not. If he likes it, his band can learn it that way or take it from there and do it their way. At least the other musicians have something in a consistent time signature and key and format. If they want to play faster or slower, put in a guitar solo or something or add a character they can create that during rehearsal.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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Songwriting
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,753
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Here's an example of a song chart after I'm done with it. Copy/paste from word pad. I don't have a copy of the song writers' penciled version any longer. _____________________________________________________________________ Morgan and Megan’s Wedding Song written by Steve Gabay C G Am F Spirit fill us with your wisdom, two hearts joined unto your kingdom C G Am F We proclaim this wedding day in your presence we want to say C G Am F Blessed are you, together and free, from the low desert to the sea C G Am F We shall sing to you with love, filled with Mercy, free as a dove C G Am F Let our hearts rejoice today, for your words shall lead our way C G Am F They are two, together as one, Thank you Father, Spirit and Son C G Am F We shall sing, as fresh new rain, mighty is Your Holy Name C G Am F As two doves will form a pair, the angels sing up in the air C G Am F We shallsing to you with Love, Praising your Name, below and above C G Am F Let our hearts, fill each day, giving thanks we now pray C G Am F This is Your day, this blessed day __________________________________________________________________________ For an example on this song go to www.soundcloud.com and search for Steven Gabbay. You will find the strummed acoustic version and an arrangement with piano, drums, bass, male and female vocals. In this case it's Bart on vocals and acoustic guitar. Stephany on vocals and piano. The rest of it came from BIAB and me editing Stephany's piano midi and tweeking it in Reaper. Edit; apparently when I copy/paste it from word to the forum it takes out the blank spaces between the chords which are above the lyrics.
Last edited by Tobias; 01/31/20 05:10 PM.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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Songwriting
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,753
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Mar 2004
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After rereading your post it sounds like he just needs to type out the songs on word pad. PM me your email address and I'll send you a handful of song chart examples I made. Every body I have ever played with at any skill level can follow my charts. If he uses my same format it should be easy for every one.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Happy Easter! Holiday Hours...
2024 is well underway - it's already Easter Weekend!
Our Customer Service hours this weekend are:
Friday, March 29: 8-4
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Regular hours resume Monday, April 1st - no joke!
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
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Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®
Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®
Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!
We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!
Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.
You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.
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Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist
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