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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,954
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,954 |
How it is now using the BB .SGU format it only stores tempo for each bar not for each beat and it rounds the tempo to a whole number, it has not got real time signatures other than 3/4 4/4 and only 255 bars. RealBand has real time signatures and decimal tempo maps and it's own file format .SEQ and more than 255 bars. It needs fixing to be able to play back the already generated tracks to the tempo map so if the tempo is changed in the DAW then it will play back the already generated tracks to that change so if you are using ACID render that will automatically fit the DAW track when dragged in, if you are not using ACID in you DAW then you can re-generate to the new tempo map. Once the play from RAM is implemented this will be a lot easier and quicker.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 399
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 399 |
"The future of PG Music is the DAW Plugin "
Over time the DAW plugin will draw in traditional DAW users including professional studios and audio/video production houses. The DAW plugin will develop into a plugin that does not have to rely on background tasks and helper apps. The plugin will continue to have a limited feature set as compared to the Band-in-a-Box program. The DAW plugin will continue to be part of the Band-in-a-Box packages. This is because it needs PG Music content to be very useful
Amen. And it seems to me PG resources aren't enough even to just pro out a proper plugin as desired let alone work on a full DAW. Why on earth reinvent the wheel? Plus it has to be mentioned that PG musics ability to come up with respectable and modern user interfaces is questionable. Leave stuff that DAWs , notnstion programs and Pro tools can do much better to DAWs and pro tools. A better tactic would be to make the plugin for as seamlessly as possible in a DAW - similar to how Melodyne is becoming.
Big Sur, Mac Mini i7 2018, 64GB RAM 2TB SSD Yamaha PSR SX 900, Cubase, Ableton, UNIFY, OPUS ORCHESTRATOR, MASCHINE, Vienna Ensemble Pro ,Audiofuse, L6 HELI, KOMPLETE, Komplete Kontrol 88 Lockdown beard, podgy face, beer belly, bald patch ... yadda yadda
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 399
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 399 |
where RB/PTPA fit in the DAW landscape Rob, BIAB is NOT a DAW. Never has been, never will be. The way of the future, as I see it, is to better develop BIAB as a plug-in, teaming up with Cakewalk by BandLab, Presonus Studio One and Reaper, maybe adding/developing features exclusive to each one's workflows of those three. Presonus' Studio One would make more sense, as they already have the "Chord Track" feature, which could be developed further to blend with BIAB's Real Track and Styles features, turning it into the most advanced DAW/Composing/Songwriting combo on the market, in which BIAB VST could be offered as an paying add-on for the Prime (free) version, the Artist (limited)version and the Pro (full-fledged) version, making it compatible with their new add-on business model. I note you totally excluded the major DAWs Cubase and Logic. Nor Digital Performer. Cubase in particular has chord track features and what better than to be able to match it up with parts from BIAB via the plugin?. So when it comes to teaming up - Steinberg would make a lot of sense. The three *old* mainstream DAWs are also used extensively by composers working for tv, media, games and film - and to have a tool which offers instant session musicians will help a lot of those dudes get work out the door when fast turnaround is required. Whether for mockups or final versions.
Big Sur, Mac Mini i7 2018, 64GB RAM 2TB SSD Yamaha PSR SX 900, Cubase, Ableton, UNIFY, OPUS ORCHESTRATOR, MASCHINE, Vienna Ensemble Pro ,Audiofuse, L6 HELI, KOMPLETE, Komplete Kontrol 88 Lockdown beard, podgy face, beer belly, bald patch ... yadda yadda
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,099
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,099 |
The issue with "working seamlessly with all DAWs" is each DAW has it's own method for communicating with plugins. So a simple goal reveals a complex issue.
An even larger issue is PG Music has not clearly defined the plugin set of features. What capability does PG Music expect the plugin to deliver? What does agreeing with the Band-in-a-Box Lite nickname mean in terms of PG Music expectations and the plugin feature set?
Once the plugin feature set is defined, what is required to work seamlessly becomes much clearer.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1109) RB (Build 3) Ultra+ PAK Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H2, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,169
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,169 |
The issue with "working seamlessly with all DAWs" is each DAW has it's own method for communicating with plugins. So a simple goal reveals a complex issue.
An even larger issue is PG Music has not clearly defined the plugin set of features. What capability does PG Music expect the plugin to deliver? What does agreeing with the Band-in-a-Box Lite nickname mean in terms of PG Music expectations and the plugin feature set?
Once the plugin feature set is defined, what is required to work seamlessly becomes much clearer. In the world of data and voice communications they standardised a model for how the different protocols fit together. For example, how one Ethernet card speaks to another. They did not say how the card should be made but how the signal enters the card and how it must leave. I thought that is what the VST implementation was about. If a plugin uses the term VST it should comply to a set of rules. DAWs should also comply if they are “VST Compliant”. Maybe a Standards organisation is required in a similar vein to the IEEE lot that look after Electronic Communications. That way one can be sure if the have a VST it will work in your DAW. My thoughts Tony
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,257
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,257 |
In the world of data and voice communications they standardised a model for how the different protocols fit together. For example, how one Ethernet card speaks to another. They did not say how the card should be made but how the signal enters the card and how it must leave.
I thought that is what the VST implementation was about. If a plugin uses the term VST it should comply to a set of rules. DAWs should also comply if they are “VST Compliant”. Maybe a Standards organisation is required in a similar vein to the IEEE lot that look after Electronic Communications. That way one can be sure if the have a VST it will work in your DAW.
My thoughts Tony I absolutely agree 100%. Standards and consistency are the most vital factors when individual systems need to interact - seamlessly.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,099
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,099 |
Tony, I don't disagree with you. But the VST specification is not a standard, the specification is proprietary. The VST specification was created and released by Steinburg in 1996 to encourage the development of third party effects for use in Cubase. Steinburg can decide to charge a license fee or quit support any time they desire. Steinburg released the first VST3 specification in 2008 and discontinued VST2 support in 2013. However many programs, including Band-in-a-Box, do not support the use of VST3 since there are so many VST2 effects and developers continue to release new VST2 effects. People gravitate to what they are familiar with and comfortable using. VST has mass acceptance and momentum similar to MP3. Interesting reading: +++ Virtual Studio Technology on Wikipedia +++
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1109) RB (Build 3) Ultra+ PAK Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H2, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 167
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 167 |
However many programs, including Band-in-a-Box, do not support the use of VST3 since there are so many VST2 effects and developers continue to release new VST2 effects. I can only speculate why hosts offer no support for VST3, but what I know is that you cannot get the VST2 SDK any more. This means only developers who have already an SDK can continue to create no VST2 plugins. Everybody else is forced to create VST3 plugins. Masi
Band-in-a-Box, BiaB-plugin, Reaper, Win10 64bit, i7-8565U, 24GB RAM (always latest versions)
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 399
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 399 |
Hi Peter,
Let me quickly explain where I see the parallels and the integration potential for BIAB using ARA2.
Also the Melodyne plugin has to analyze the input coming from the DAW. It does so when applying the plugin to an existing audio track. The Melodyne plugin takes the song tempo from the DAW and analyzes the audio file for the played notes. After that it seems to share the file with the DAW. Meaning that all changes done within the plugin are directly available for playback and further effect processing in the DAW.
The main difference between BIAB and Melodyne is, that BIAB creates tracks itself, whereas Melodyne just uses existing ones. But that shouldn't be a big problem. In case of the BIAB plugin, it would be necessary to do some assignment between one of the BIAB tracks and the DAW track, likely using the audio track in BIAB as a start. The full tempo map could come from the DAW, like in Melodyne. If not using your ACW function as equivalent to what Melodyne does, a chordsheet import could also be an option.
Within the Melodyne plugin, I can switch between the tracks or work on several tracks in parallel. That's pretty similar to what happens within the BIAB plugin already. But with BIAB I currently don't have the separate tracks in my DAW. I have to import them one by one, every time I make a change in BIAB. Creating a track in the DAW first, assigning the BIAB plugin and sharing the respective track in BiAB would be a more natural workflow.
With Melodyne, many DAWs offer an audio to Midi conversion, creating a new separate midi track in the DAW on demand. In case of BIAB, the equivalent would probably be to create and assign a Midi Super track to the new DAW track.
The good thing about ARA2 is, that all major DAWs I know already support it. According to the time it took to get there, it must have been quite some effort for the DAW providers to adapt such a standard. So it should be in their interest to make most out of it and to re-use it whereever possible. What I don't know though, is the policy and willingness of Celemony to share this standard with other products. But if you are interested you should be able to find out. At the end of the day it might be a win/win situation for both companies and definitely for the customers.
Cheers Roland Can I just add my support to adding ARA support. first into the BIAB plugin - so Cubase and use and edit BIAB songs in the BB Plugin but... also - now that the BIAB 2024 version of standalone is looking more like a DAW with the new tracks views - also to consider ARA support INSIDE BIAB standalone! - this is - for me - specifically - to be able to host the AI vocalist Synthesiser V. inside BIAB standalone - in ARA mode! this would allow one to create and edit AI vocalist tracks as if they were audio/MIDI tracks - and would be so powerful - say as a song demo feature before - say hiring a pro vocalist or submitting a song to a band/publisher etc. ARA Baby!
Big Sur, Mac Mini i7 2018, 64GB RAM 2TB SSD Yamaha PSR SX 900, Cubase, Ableton, UNIFY, OPUS ORCHESTRATOR, MASCHINE, Vienna Ensemble Pro ,Audiofuse, L6 HELI, KOMPLETE, Komplete Kontrol 88 Lockdown beard, podgy face, beer belly, bald patch ... yadda yadda
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,099
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,099 |
Hi Peter,
Let me quickly explain where I see the parallels and the integration potential for BIAB using ARA2.
Also the Melodyne plugin has to analyze the input coming from the DAW. It does so when applying the plugin to an existing audio track. The Melodyne plugin takes the song tempo from the DAW and analyzes the audio file for the played notes. After that it seems to share the file with the DAW. Meaning that all changes done within the plugin are directly available for playback and further effect processing in the DAW.
The main difference between BIAB and Melodyne is, that BIAB creates tracks itself, whereas Melodyne just uses existing ones. But that shouldn't be a big problem. In case of the BIAB plugin, it would be necessary to do some assignment between one of the BIAB tracks and the DAW track, likely using the audio track in BIAB as a start. The full tempo map could come from the DAW, like in Melodyne. If not using your ACW function as equivalent to what Melodyne does, a chordsheet import could also be an option.
Within the Melodyne plugin, I can switch between the tracks or work on several tracks in parallel. That's pretty similar to what happens within the BIAB plugin already. But with BIAB I currently don't have the separate tracks in my DAW. I have to import them one by one, every time I make a change in BIAB. Creating a track in the DAW first, assigning the BIAB plugin and sharing the respective track in BiAB would be a more natural workflow.
With Melodyne, many DAWs offer an audio to Midi conversion, creating a new separate midi track in the DAW on demand. In case of BIAB, the equivalent would probably be to create and assign a Midi Super track to the new DAW track.
The good thing about ARA2 is, that all major DAWs I know already support it. According to the time it took to get there, it must have been quite some effort for the DAW providers to adapt such a standard. So it should be in their interest to make most out of it and to re-use it whereever possible. What I don't know though, is the policy and willingness of Celemony to share this standard with other products. But if you are interested you should be able to find out. At the end of the day it might be a win/win situation for both companies and definitely for the customers.
Cheers Roland Can I just add my support to adding ARA support. first into the BIAB plugin - so Cubase and use and edit BIAB songs in the BB Plugin but... also - now that the BIAB 2024 version of standalone is looking more like a DAW with the new tracks views - also to consider ARA support INSIDE BIAB standalone! - this is - for me - specifically - to be able to host the AI vocalist Synthesiser V. inside BIAB standalone - in ARA mode! this would allow one to create and edit AI vocalist tracks as if they were audio/MIDI tracks - and would be so powerful - say as a song demo feature before - say hiring a pro vocalist or submitting a song to a band/publisher etc. ARA Baby! Peter and Nonchai, adding ARA2 support to the main Band-in-a-Box program and the Band-in-a-Box plugin is a great idea. +1
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1109) RB (Build 3) Ultra+ PAK Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H2, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Happy Easter! Holiday Hours...
2024 is well underway - it's already Easter Weekend!
Our Customer Service hours this weekend are:
Friday, March 29: 8-4
Saturday, March 30: 8-4
Sunday, March 31: closed
Regular hours resume Monday, April 1st - no joke!
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®
Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®
Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!
We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!
Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.
You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.
See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.
Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist
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