PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Shuttering audio at random places of arrangement, latency? HALION SONIC!!!!!!!!!

Welcome to user-pestering Microsuck Windows 10 policies. Some tipsbelow, and get rid of the Home version.

I bought a Windows 10 LTSB version a while ago, alas abandoned after 1916. Doesn't have al that bloatware and 'automatic' so called features no one ever needs. The most stable Windows i ever had.

Now i am forced to use W10 pro again as Nvdia drivers don't work due Nvidia's installer.
There must be a way around that, but being fed up with this nerdery i made a fresh Windows 10 pro installation.

Also because a license i have for 10 Enterprise did not work anymore. This i had from 8.1 days as free update 'service'.
Called Microsuck, 1 hour on the phone and was told you cannot use this anymore. Thank you Microsuck.

IMO a must: let windows update work after a fresh install, then use at least 00shutup to get rid of a lot of bloatware.
Use Edge Block 1.5, AND Windows Update Switch, as Windows updates ruins your careful tuned settings regarding USB hub powermanagement and processor Power among things.

You cannot switch of Updates in windows, as it keeps turning it on.

There's more like those everlasting permissions issues. TakeOwnership is a registry entry tool you really need at least.

Switch off Windows defender in favor of a 3rd party anti virus, and Windows firewall too, and use Private firewall 7.0 instead,
quite tunable and user friendly.

Once up and running, about 4 hours work, make a backup with True image etc, in case if things go wrong.
Creating Restore points along the way can be useful.

If there are security updates you can always install them manually. Watch out what Windows Defender etc does after that.


For Jeff: I had USB isues with external RME hardware. Bought an expensive Sonnet 4 controller PCIe card, for separating USB hardware. That solved my occasional audio stuttering.

Fiddler, this should be a part of a warning label on Windows boxes (if such exist these days)

You forgot to mention all the reporting, "user experience", Cortana and 3 dozen sneaky privacy features.

Ohh well it is not a perfect world, thankfully there are alternatives.
Still wish for tech to step in and attempt to help as the plugin only acts up in BIAB for me.

I had a similar problem with stuttering when using Halion and was still present even when I switched the audio driver to NME.

Solution so far for me is to use asio4all v2, so far so good no stuttering in Halion, Set as default synth, even with a mix of midi and realtracks.

And its an old computer as well, with only 4gb of Rab

i would like to respond re useing expensive multiple core 3ghz plus
computers and thinking that spending 2g's plus on a computer will enable
them to load endlessly with apps for a recording studio.
by way of background to my comments mes amies i spent 30 yrs in
"tech" includeing product mgt (my day gig) while also being in various
bands and recording in different studios and owning different
studios. (my "side gig".lol.)
heres the deal.
i'm still not happy with current computer architectures because i think it
will be only when we can buy cheaply new computer architectures
(ditching silicone tech, maybe quantum tech ??)
that we will all have the computing power we really need so we dont
have to worry about maxing out systems/processors etc.
the problem being us musicians are a small market for tech.

musicians are stuck today (as are other power hungry people in other
disciplines ) in what i term the 2 to 4ghz plateau "lock".
this is because of the laws of physics. viz you can only cram so many
transistors on a processor "die".
thus processors went to many cores to attempt to solve the problem.
but in reality we are still stuck in the ghz speed "lock" conundrum.

with gigabit transfer storage speeds , the storage is not a problem.
what we need is faster base motherboard architectures and processors.
(please lord gimme a 32 core processor with each core running
10 ghz. whoopee lol.)
in summary us musicians are stuck. sure you can buy a cheap 300
buk pc , but once you load it up it prolly wont meet your needs
because its ok for general tasks .
otoh if you spend 3g's on a computer it probably will become
obsolete.
so what to do ?? i personally refuse to pay lots for computers,
otoh i need power , so the only solution for me is off lease refurbs
multi cores with ssd's and warranties. thus i can save lotsa buks.
my whole family has refurbs ive carefully selected .
(nary a problem. one advantage of refurbs being that in the refurb
process lots of junk is cleaned out.ive never had one problem
with refurbs. all my refurbs boot from cold in very few secs cos i
tell the refurb people i want "fast boots".)
but also i'm prudent with the music apps i use so everything runs
smoothly with no hiccups or stuttering which are often caused by
drivers in audio interfaces, or the way the user has set up the computer.
or asking too much of an underpowered computer.
just because you throw a bunch of money at a computer doesnt necessarily
mean youll be problem free. due to many factors ive outlined.

so heres what i do (my methodology).
1. before starting the song i think of computer resource impacts.
is this song going to need lots of traks ? plug ins etc etc.
is this a complex song ? if its too complex maybe i should be thinking
more of a KISS concept with song . always in the back of my mind
is what a big time producer once told me with gold coming out his ying yangs.
ie if it needs a load of traks are you putting "lipstick on a pig" etc.
in decades past remember once world selling records were done on
studer b67's with very few traks. 3 traks if i remember.
todays pc's will do loads. some over 100 depending on pc.
ask yourself "am i over producing perhaps". ??
eurythmics once did a hit song on a tascam 8 trak recorder
if i remember correctly .
2. if i DO decide to do a very difficult song that i know will require
lots of recording time/computing resources) i lay out a plan.
(hopefully this will help people with very slow old computers etc etc )
at this point i'm soley concerned about "arrangement".
ie does the arrangement work ??
so i use midi only no exotic plug ins or real traks
and use midi to get the arrangement to my liking.
constantly refining. then maybe doing bass and drum realtraks to make
more "feel". once happy i, drop the bass and drums into reaper traks.
i'm soley concerned bout getting the "rhythm section" right .
(useing my favorites folder approach. read my earlier methodology).
i continue doing this testing other bed trak instruments in biab.
eg say i nee a "sax" i test out various saxes in biab.
choose one, then pop it over to reaper. i continue doing this one
instrument at a time. remember the old "trak sheets" that big
studios used to have for their 2 inch studers /mci's 24 trak
machines ?? i do a similar thing.
this way i can test out lots of different real traks and/or midi plug ins.
the whole deal being not to overtax a computer.
3. in reaper i do trak assembly from the biab traks, and add my own
vocs and instrumentation. for example sometimes i just cant find that perfect
lead solo in biab, so i make my own with maybe a midi trak turned
to audio via a plug in etc etc.

in summary i have no intention as a "know it all" or great musician etc
its just ive been round the "recording roundabout" more than a few times.
and i see people loading up their computers expecting they will do anything
they throw at it, and sometimes getting problems because imho the core
computer architectures still need advancing in terms of
lots of boosts in performance and power.
best regards to all.and sorry for the long post.
ps remember if you get problems.
simplify.
ps ive had no problems in 2020 biab with stuttering etc
etc.

Maybe it has to do with patch changes. Try this - create a text file named "AsstSettings.ini" and put this file in the MAIN bb folder. Add the following lines to it:

PlaybackPatches_DoNotSendRedundantPatches=1
PlaybackPatches_MSDelayAfterPrgChange=500
PlaybackPatches_RemoveEmbeddedTrackPatches=1

Now restart Band-in-a-Box and test playback.

Also, if rendering is an issue, close Band-in-a-Box and add these lines to that file.

RenderDXorVST_CheckSettingsEveryRender=0
RenderDXorVST_MSDelayAfterPrgChange=500
RenderDXorVST_RenderRatePercentOfRealTime=200
RenderDXorVST_RemoveEmbeddedTrackPatches=1

i forgot to add some further info.
as follows.
you will hear on various recording forums.
1."i have the same computer and plug ins as my friend
why does he have no problems but I DO with stuttering
and/or latency".
2."why does a interface / driver work in my friends but not mine "
etc etc
anytime peruse the net recording/songwriter
forums and youll see all manner of people with problems of
one type or another. even people with hi power configs.
lets address this.
it comes back to the point i made before that us musicians
badly need new powerfull computer architectures.
because the recording business needs them imho.
to date in summary we have been "shoehorning".

lets address two specific points
point 1 above (the same pc).
well maybe one user is trying to shoehorn an intensive
plug in onto the same disk drive as windows etc etc
resides on instead of dedicating a seperate hi speed
ssd drive so windows has the drive to itself to do its thing.
and so does the intensive plug in have its own drive.
particularly sample reading/streaming off old slow hard drives
might be a problem due to the latency of the drive reading process.
use ssd instead.

now lets address the point .
"my xyz plug in works fine in my daw multitrack so why not biab."
and pg tech support can correct me if i'm wrong.
the answer is a daw multitrack is a different animal from biab.
BIAB IS A DIFFERENT BEAST> ITS AN ACCOMPANIMENT
GENERATOR/PROGRAM.
i call it the best darn song bed trak generator around.
thus it needs processing power for the generation process.
so this could conflict on some computers
where also power intensive plug ins are also used as well.
ie the two processes end up fighting each other simplistically
for processing resources. the lower the computers power
probably more chance of problems.
even high power computers might have problems depending
on the config/set up.

in summary we are talking two different software bases.
biab and the daw. the daw is not a bed trak generator,
one has to record traks from scratch etc etc in a daw
whereas biab is "assembling" in real time..
were it me i wouldnt be useing major computer performance /useage
demanding plug ins biab. so as not to impact the generation process.
i purposely use only low demand plug ins in biab so as not to
impact the generation process.
thus i never get stuttering and other problems.

thus if i were useing large sample based (on disc) plug ins i would ensure
that i had a seperate hi speed ssd drive just for samples ,and use such a plug
in in the daw only . i would generate say a nidi trak in biab then pop it into
the daw to drive the demanding plug in on a daw track and then print the track.
even in a daw only situation you will see musicians with high trak and
plug in counts complaining about "puffing out" their computers , even
powerfull computers. thus confirming the fact WE NEED NEW MORE
POWERFULL COMPUTER ARCHITECTURES.


in closeing like you dont overload a car made for 4 people with 16 people,
understand the limitations your computer has ,
i only wish everyone happy music makeing and hope this helps someone.

also.
rusty.
please describe your computer config in detail.
are you useing just one ssd for everything ??
windows plus halion plus biab ??

for anyone else following this it IS LIKELY
if someone is running windows AND a big sample
player library AND biab realtraks off ONE DRIVE.
youll get stuttering problems due to contention for
drive resources.
if you ARE in this situation and you are a user
wishing to run big sample player plug ins in biab i
would run a test as follows.
a powerfull desktop with 3 seperate physical ssd's.
1. one ssd for windows,
2. another ssd for the sample player and its sample
library and
3. another ssd for biab realtraks library etc.
thus no drive contention.
imho the above method with ssd's should be on every
music software forum.
too many people are useing underpowered laptops
and desktops imho. thus problems.

justanoldmuso, thanks for your contributions that are very informative. I think it's been established that this particular problem is not the kind of stuttering caused by a deficiency or bottleneck in the hardware or software; it is limited to Halion Sonic. The audio example did not sound to me like stuttering, shuttering, or shuddering, whichever it may be. Take a listen and see if you agree.

matt.
i post knowing the info might be also of interest to people
who might be newbies to the "recording madness".lol.
and reading the threads possibly wondering why his or her
one drive 300 buk laptop or desktop is puffing out once its loaded
up with everything but the kitchen sink.lol.

re nvme.
the question in my mind regarding nvme is
"CAN WE NOW THROW EVERYTHING BUT THE
KITCHEN SINK AT ONE SSD INCLUDEING RUNNING
WIN OS SO WE DONT NEED TO USE MULTIPLE SSD'S".??
ie has the paradigm changed. remember sample streaming
libs can be very large.
as i mentioned , in the past the prudent approach was to use
multiple drives.
so RUSTY, my question is ARE YOU RUNNING EVERYTHING OFF
ONE SSD ?????

justanoldmuso,
Thanks for your time. Actually I have tried this method of running things from 2 ssd's simultaneously, before posting this thread

I tried running program on one / RT on the other, Program+RTs on one and VST on the second.

There seems to be a particular issue with Sonic + BIAB combination in my case. Andrew posted couple of possible solutions which I will try next week. What is strange that Sonic has all those adjustments to lighten the load on CPU and none of them seem to have any effect.

Will post back if Andew's method will solve this.

Have you tried asio4all yet Rusty, did work for me.

Maybe i don't have problems because i use RME hardware, and their drivers. AND a separate USB controller audio channel for that audio unit only.

I have never been a fan of especially simple laptops with one or two USB ports for connecting external hardware as midi or audio stuff. If you're lucky it works. Most of the laptops have only one USB controller chip, and boy, if your mouse or keyboard is confined to the same bus .... seems an invitation for trouble. F

fiddler.
excellent point. rme is great product.
sometimes its all about interface and drivers etc etc.
i personally use steinberg ur22 for the reaper/biab
combo , no problems.
your also correct about laptops/usb.
sometimes i advise musos with big libs/samples etc
to get a rrefurb i7 desktop for example.
sling in 3 ssd's.
1. one ssd for win.
and the music /recording prog exe'ss.
2. one ssd for biab realtraks/samples etc.
(win drive has core biab progm).
3.one ssd for the big sample libs from
whoever the 3rd party sample progm is.
(win drive has sample progm exe.)
divide and conquer etc.
otoh if that dont work.
keep the 3 ssd's and try installing the base progms
ie sample lib exe and biab exe on seperate drive from win.
thus leaving win to operate by itself.
old school lol.
i know its a lot of trouble , but the only way is to test
many approches and see what works best.
think of the poor developers of music software.
not easy for them also.
they are on a hiding to nothing because there are so many
different user set ups.
so they cant keep everyone happy as they are locked into
the current pc technology platform.

fiddler2007, justanoldmuso.
Thanks for the input. I do not believe it is related to a particular hardware. Fiddler, I have tested with Arrow interface (UAD TB3) another External USB Asio interface and internal Realtek chip.I am pretty positive it is software related. I will try / test Andrew method later in the week.

An update...
Andrew, the created ini file with both sets of code you gave did not work. See attached. There are two instruments. One BIAB rendered ok, which is arping synth (clean sound) all the other stuff, although it sounds "cool" but that was not the "instrument" it supposed to render, LOL.

It is actually sampled acoustic hand drums (very acoustic sounding) from Halion Ethnic section, but they got rendered some strange EDMesque way. My guess, it happens because some instruments in Halion have deep midi programming with sequenced/arping notes.

I will avoid using Halion in some ways for now in BIAB and focus more on creative, non troubleshooting things

One day, if the problem persists with new projects, I will transfer Sonic license to a backup computer and will test it with the same troubled projects, just to see if it is "specific system" issue.

Thanks everyone who participated!