Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
#583774 03/05/20 05:41 AM
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,366
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,366
I'm thinking about picking up a portable stick PA (linear array type). Kinda had my eye of the Yamaha Stagepas 1K but saw that recently EV released the Evolve 30M.

Both seem to have the same wattage (1000 peak) and have approx the same horizontal dispersion but the Evolve has a 10" woofer and the Stagepas has a 12" woofer. At -10dB the Evolve will go down to 45Hz whereas the Stagepas at -10dB will go down to 37Hz.

If I'm looking at this right, which I may not be, the lowest note on an 88 key keyboard goes down to 27Hz. So the Evolve will roll-off further on the last 9 or so keys, where the Stagepas will roll-off on the last 6 keys.

I'm concerned here about bass response and I don't want to have to resort to a sub.

So if the lowest note on a 4 string bass is 55Hz, does any of this really matter? Is there really any difference between a 10" and a 12" if the wattage to each is the same?

Appreciate your insight and counsel.

Jeff

Last edited by MountainSide; 03/05/20 10:37 AM.

Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 723
Journeyman
Online Content
Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 723
In a word yes.
Bigger woofer moves more air.
My experience has been a larger woofer gives a much cleaner (distinct voicing) at the low frequencies.

That said, I believe either a 10 or a 12 will work for you.

I've gigged for a season with an Evolve 50.
My only complaint is the bottom weighs about 45 lbs

My backing tracks contain bass/drums/hammond b3/piano, etc
Lots of stuff that gets muddy. The EV can cover any room from a small restaurant to backporch tiki bar with 150 people easily. The sound is crisp and clear all the way down the frequency range.


I've done some testing lately on the Evolve 30 and really like it. The bass voicings are crystal and the weight is almost 10 lbs less.

I think that unless you are playing serious EDM stuff either would do you fine.

I just don't know much about the StagePas.


The new Evolve 30M has more mixer capability than previous versions. Make sure either rig gives you what you need there.

The bluetooth implementation is "good enough" on the EV, certainly for streaming between sets. I'm still old school enough that I use a cable from my tracks player (usually an Ipad) to the EV while I'm playing.


If weight matters to you, bear that in mind also.
The StagePas looks pretty heavy to me.

Hope this helps a little


biab2023(Mac)
Logic Pro X
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,800
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,800
You can get a woofer that’s too big for a purpose, that makes things muddy. But that doesn’t apply to these choices.



BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,366
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,366
Thanks Matt....done.


Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,366
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,366
Appreciate all the comments guys. I must admit, the enhanced mixer options of the Evolve 30M and its lighter weight do have some interest. Off to GC for some listening.

Jeff


Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
Listening to different options is a good idea .. even better, bring along a CD/USB example of your music so you can see how your stuff sounds on the target system.


Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 723
Journeyman
Online Content
Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 723
rharv is spot on.
You want to hear your stuff/rig on the device
I brought my phone and pad in with my backing tracks.
Checked it out using both direct connect and bluetooth.

I spoke with the guy there beforehand and even brought in my guitar and a small direct box. Set up my rig and played a few tunes on the EV 30m. Convinced me of its goodness.

I'm guessing you could use one of their keyboards to help in your decision making. Most of the times they are pretty helpful as long as you keep clear of playing the "forbidden songs".


biab2023(Mac)
Logic Pro X
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
I offered that advice as a first thought from personal experience, but to answer the original question; yes woofer size matters, as do most of the other components involved in a speaker. Let your ears be your guide, don't go with specs or speculation. Listen to your stuff on it (that determines whether the final result meets your needs) but also know that yes it matters, as does whether it is polypropelyne, kevlar or stamped board .. or metallic coating or ...

Lots of the specs matter but the one that matters most is your needs.
I like different woofers for different applications (recording/mixing vs live performance for example)


Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,301
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,301
So the answer isn't as simple as saying yes or no. 12" vs 10" cones. Looking at the specs from a single speaker really doesn't give you a clear answer. You must account for the number of speakers, speaker efficiencies , and the amps, just to mention a few of the factors involved.

I've played in bands with a simple little 100w 8 channel PA system into passive cabinets to PA's that were suitable for outside large venues that had thousands of watts into tri-amped stacks of cabinets. Big was fun.....


The fact of the matter is that either of the systems you are looking at will do a good job for you in the small clubs you would be playing. The 10" vs 12" speaker size will not be an issue that you would be concerned about. Your main concern is portability and ease of transport. Good sound is important too and should not be an issue with either of those. A buddy of mine loved the one he was using on a cruise ship gig he did for many years. He raved about that thing.

Just my 2 cents worth.


You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com
Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
R
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
R
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
I would be more concerned about low mids and mids with any of the pole in a box systems. As well as radiation patterns for coverage. As others have pointed out the speaker diameter does matter but so does its throw, the cabinet design, crossover details, servo control if present, etc.

Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,366
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,366
Well, I headed off to GC with some of my MP3's in hand.

Have to admit, the way my local GC crams every speaker into a fairly small "speaker" room you're forced into standing not much more than 10 feet from each unit.

I even tried to move further out into the "keyboard" room and even further back to the guitar area. Didn't work too well...with every other customer testing, demoing and playing their favorite riff, I really couldn't tell much difference between the Stagepas 1K and the Evolve 30M.

Then again, maybe that's the point or maybe my old ears just aren't up to critical listening anymore. In any case, its a hard decision to make in that over the years I become accustom to sitting in my small studio and sitting 3 feet away from my KRK Rokit 8's. Now that still sounds good to these old ears!

Having never heard my music through a PA, maybe its just a case of realizing that tunes played through a PA system are never going to sound as good as in a controlled studio setting...and in that regards maybe that's the key take-away.

Jeff


Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
A PA is never going to sound like a controlled studio environment in real use.
It will take some extra effort to get your studio tunes prepped for a given PA
.. but in order to do that you have to know which PA. <grin>
A bit of chicken/egg but if you couldn't tell much difference between the two at this point, I'd start considering cost, build quality and ease of transport next.

Once you have the new PA in an isolated area (not where lots of extraneous noise is happening) you can do the final step of optimizing the content for the playback system.
The real question is whether either or both systems were 'acceptable'.

Last edited by rharv; 03/13/20 06:25 AM.

Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,800
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,800
Old ears lose high frequency hearing. Bass should still come through fine.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 723
Journeyman
Online Content
Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 723
I don't think you're going to find a great deal of difference between the Stagepas 1K and the Evolve 30M.
They are very similar animals.
Perhaps like picking one zebra over another because you like zebra x's stripe pattern.

Where I found a great difference was when I compared these line arrays to a powered speaker like the QSC 10.2 or 12.2 - both high quality rigs.

It seemed the bottom end was a bit cleaner, the mid range had great definition and the highs sounded good.

In short a line array PA costing at least 1.5 that of a powered speaker sounded better. Go figure.

I think you have found two winners. Examine the feature sets of each system and make your decision based on how well those match your needs. They both sound great. Either way I think you'll be happy.

Pull the trigger


biab2023(Mac)
Logic Pro X
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
R
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
R
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Originally Posted By: MountainSide


Having never heard my music through a PA, maybe its just a case of realizing that tunes played through a PA system are never going to sound as good as in a controlled studio setting...and in that regards maybe that's the key take-away.



I can vouch that this is often disappointing! I'm one of the FOH sound guys at our church and now and then I'll bring in my stuff to play through the PA - which sounds fine to me for recorded audio that I'm not familiar with, and then when I play my stuff - ugh!

I like well enough how my recordings sound in my car, over headphones, and of course over my monitors. But the church PA - haven't had one sound satisfactory yet.

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!

If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.

A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."

"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."

"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."

Happy Easter! Holiday Hours...

2024 is well underway - it's already Easter Weekend!

Our Customer Service hours this weekend are:

Friday, March 29: 8-4
Saturday, March 30: 8-4
Sunday, March 31: closed

Regular hours resume Monday, April 1st - no joke!

Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created a video to help you learn more about the Volume Automation options in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Volume Automation

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#volume-automation

Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created this short video to explain Audio Input Monitoring within Band-in-a-Box® 2024, and included some tips & troubleshooting details too!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Audio Input Monitoring

3:17: Tips
5:10: Troubleshooting

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#audio-input-monitoring

Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!

We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!

Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics81,398
Posts732,546
Members38,442
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
danielsk, Mark Morgan, zagrajbarke, Ernest J, Izzy
38,442 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 199
Al-David 133
DC Ron 115
rsdean 85
dcuny 84
Today's Birthdays
(charlie), WobblyGstring
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5