You...YOU...are the one making this political. You have no clue about my political beliefs. Nothing I posted, or said, was political. I posted statistics....from, I might add, the CDC. Purely informational. And yet somehow you've managed to twist this around to be about Trump, who I personally couldn't care less about.
And yes, the media has absolutely hyped this. I don't base that on what Trump has or hasn't said, just on what I've seen with my own eyes. Like people in a fist fight in a grocery store over CANNED VEGETABLES. That type of behavior is stupid and unwarranted. If you disagree with that, or take exception to the factual numbers I posted, you're nothing more than part of the problem.
I would be saying exactly the same thing regardless of which party was in office right now, all other things being equal. If a Democrat or a Republican lies to me, then its still a lie and I would call them on it.
Not long ago, I finished listening to a Trump lead news conference, after the major players came out of a strategy meeting in the situation room. My take on what I heard is that the administration is no longer in denial about the seriousness of the situation, and if they follow through we will no longer be talking about Republican or Democrat responses to the pandemic but a unified national approach. Symbolically, Trump was wearing a Blue USA cap instead of his usual Red MAGA cap.
Just as Congress and the Administration came together right on the bare edge of economic collapse in 2008, it appears from the language used in the news conference that the accusations of HOAX have come to an end, and the levers of government are now being pulled to mitigate the spread of COVID-19 albeit with some rewriting of history and some self congratulatory back patting for their now visionary response. It’s sad that we always have to wait until we are on the bleeding edge of disaster before we acknowledge what the experts say for weeks in advance, but at least this morning, our government appears to have all been singing from the same page of the hymnal.
Visits to nursing homes will be banned, sick people will stay home with government backed financing for their sick leave, test kits are being made available, special websites set up and more. We can still argue what could have been done earlier to have made our response more robust and less financially difficult than we now face, but there are no longer any vocal deniers of the problem at the national level.
While I agree that we don't need to panic, acting like it's no big deal is incredibly dangerous and short sighted.
Originally Posted By: bobcflatpicker
But even mentioning "media hype" is playing into the administrations constant attempts at trying to get the American public to distrust the media.
I'll choose the media over a self serving politician with a rampant history of lying to the public every time.
Well said Bob!
Those who speak dismissively of the dangers of Coronavirus (COVID-19) are potentially causing much greater harm than the media "hyping" those dangers.
The risk is very real. Seniors and those with compromised systems are especially high risk. Many WILL DIE! And if you are not in that age group you can still carry the virus and infect those who are at risk!!!
If the media causes your local Walmart to run low on toilet paper, well, La Dee Dah! So what? On the other hand if the increased awareness causes lots more people to stay at home and that results in fewer people spreading the virus to my parents and yours then that is a HUGE WIN!
One more thing while I'm on my soapbox. After the concerted efforts of government, media and responsible citizens actually succeed in containing the virus, the same folks who are dismissive of the risks will be the ones exclaiming "See, I told ya it was no big deal". SMH!
Not long ago, I finished listening to a Trump lead news conference, after the major players came out of a strategy meeting in the situation room. My take on what I heard is that the administration is no longer in denial about the seriousness of the situation, and if they follow through we will no longer be talking about Republican or Democrat responses to the pandemic but a unified national approach. Symbolically, Trump was wearing a Blue USA cap instead of his usual Red MAGA cap.
Just as Congress and the Administration came together right on the bare edge of economic collapse in 2008, it appears from the language used in the news conference that the accusations of HOAX have come to an end, and the levers of government are now being pulled to mitigate the spread of COVID-19 albeit with some rewriting of history and some self congratulatory back patting for their now visionary response. It’s sad that we always have to wait until we are on the bleeding edge of disaster before we acknowledge what the experts say for weeks in advance, but at least this morning, our government appears to have all been singing from the same page of the hymnal.
Visits to nursing homes will be banned, sick people will stay home with government backed financing for their sick leave, test kits are being made available, special websites set up and more. We can still argue what could have been done earlier to have made our response more robust and less financially difficult than we now face, but there are no longer any vocal deniers of the problem at the national level.
I generally agree with your assessment. But, as I'm sure you know, trump is only on-board the sane train as a matter of pressure and convenience. He'll be red-hatted and off the rails again shortly!
There's nothing new concerning a huge glut of new cases here or anywhere else. A few hundred here, a few hundred there. 247 confirmed cases in in the entire state of California as of 3 hours ago with a population of about 38 million. Will it go up of course it will. An 82 year old woman with emphysema died while a 89 year old man recovered. Many articles now online by survivors describing basically a bad cold or flu. They say they were scared but ultimately no big deal.
What are we being told to do that we haven't been told to do during flu season for the last 30 years? Wash your hands, stay in if you're sick, cover your mouth and nose if you sneeze or cough, wear a face mask if you're concerned about infecting others but understand they don't help much in protecting you. Did I miss anything?
As far as lack of testing kits in the US yes that has caused us to be way behind other countries. Where are the US cases? Lets assume for a minute that there really are many thousands in California who had bad symptoms over the last few weeks but because of no testing we don't know about them. Wouldn't many of them show up in ER's? Wouldn't those ER's have reported an uptick in respiraitory cases that they now think could have been COVID 19? Any reports like that from ER's anywhere in the country?
In migrant communities all over the country many have no health insurance so they go to ER's. They also tend to live in very crowded conditions like 2 or 3 families in the same house with one bathroom. The ER is their health insurance which is why btw when people like to say there are milliios of uninsured so they can't get care are full of crap. By federal law, anybody can go to an ER and get full medical care with no questions asked. In California especially, those ER's would have been handling many thousands of additional respiratory cases if this virus was so bad and would have reported them by now. An ER waiting room is about the worst place to be if there's a bad virus going around. Whether or not specific COVID 19 testing was available would have had nothing to do with that. If they're sick over the last month or so people would go to the ER and if it was that prevalent and easy to catch the ER's would have been a huge breeding ground.
Where are all those stats from ER's?
I don't trust the Chinese too much but if they actually have millions of cases and untold thousands of deaths and are hiding it I think that story would still get out. This tells me it's not that easy to catch. People and the news are acting like if you walk into a room with an infected person bam, you're dead just like that. They're not actually saying that but the tone, facial expressions and the questions they keep asking guest experts all imply that. Yes, it's huge media hype.
I'm still not overly concerned about this, cautious of course but panicked, oh hell no. This is all about potential. Potentially this is a first step by the aliens us wipe us all out. Potentially this is the worst thing since the Black Plague.
Wait for actual evidence and facts before being freaked out about UPS packages.
I generally agree with your assessment. But, as I'm sure you know, trump is only on-board the sane train as a matter of pressure and convenience. He'll be red-hatted and off the rails again shortly!
There is no doubt in my mind that someone finally convinced him that ignoring the experts would be the end of his rule, so he is only doing what is politically expedient. As soon as we are out of the woods misinformation will rule again.
There's nothing new concerning a huge glut of new cases here or anywhere else. A few hundred here, a few hundred there... Will it go up of course it will.
Here's a forecast model based on something more than anecdotal evidence:
What are we being told to do that we haven't been told to do during flu season for the last 30 years? Wash your hands, stay in if you're sick, cover your mouth and nose if you sneeze or cough, wear a face mask if you're concerned about infecting others but understand they don't help much in protecting you. Did I miss anything?
Large populations - entire countries - have been isolating themselves during this pandemic.
This action is significantly different than prior flu seasons.
Quote:
As far as lack of testing kits in the US yes that has caused us to be way behind other countries. Where are the US cases?
As of March 12, the Johns Hopkins researchers counted about 1,600 confirmed cases in the US. The actual number of cases is likely much higher.
People and the news are acting like if you walk into a room with an infected person bam, you're dead just like that.
"Epidemiologists and disease modelers studying Covid-19 told Vox a more reliable global case fatality rate is about 1 percent — but there’s still a lot we have to learn about the disease. And even when we better understand how deadly this virus is, it’s likely to look pretty different country to country."
But the true danger of coronavirus is unlikely to be the death toll. Experts say health systems could easily become overwhelmed by the number of cases requiring hospitalisation – and, often ventilation to support breathing.
An analysis of 45,000 confirmed cases in China, where the epidemic originated, show that the vast majority of deaths were among the elderly (14.8 percent mortality among over 80s).
But another Chinese study showed that 41 percent of serious cases occurred among under 50s, compared with 27 percent among over 65s.
Hi All. Very interesting reading what everyone has to say and my prayers/good thoughts whatever are being beamed out to everyone from here in Hong Kong. This is an excellent talk given by an American health economist. One of the clearest explanations of what's going down or will/could go down and some interesting statistics that I wasn't aware of. I hold my head in shame at what the UK's PM has proposed for my country of birth, the UK. Anyway, it's Al Jazeera, so the host may irritate a few of you, but the health economist is American and seriously switched on. He starts about 40 seconds in. Really worth listening to, especially if you still think it's a hoax, media scam etc. stay safe guys. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtSJBETsOqM
Just re watched it and realised it's 2 days old now. I actually watched it on TV a few minutes before I posted it here. From what you guys are saying and would seem that some things are now being put in place to deal with Mr Carona, which is good news.
On a more humerous note, We were actually drinking Corona out of solidarity for the the Brewery which we fear may go out of business! When SARs broke out in Hong Kong, the Government's Tourism gurus had a theme of 'Hong Kong will take your breath away.' https://www.theguardian.com/media/2003/apr/09/pressandpublishing.marketingandpr
Last edited by lambada; 03/14/2007:22 PM.
Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487 BIAB 2021 (Build 818) Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi) VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
Predictions, models. I get it. We have to have something to base decisions on. It's called plan for the worst just in case which is a good idea. Just for fun I did a little research into the SARS infection in 2003. The description, symptoms, infection rate sounds exactly like COVID 19. Look at the name SARS. Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome. The two names and descriptions could be interchangeable. If anybody cares read this article from 2003 about using models to predict SARS spread and consequences:
Scroll halfway down and look at the charts. Same very dire predictions we're hearing now all based on models because hard data wasn't there yet. I'm really struck by the initial similarities between the two incidents. SARS never even came close to the predictions, barely a small fraction. 2003 was before social media and the absolutely suffocating news cycle which I think is making a huge difference in public perception. Don't panic over modeled predictions, wait for the facts.
What really upsets me is my 78 year old friend had to go do some shopping today. He decided to take a longer drive into Palm Springs. He called me this afternoon to say Trader Joes was completely packed with a line waiting to get in. The Vons was the same, Target ditto. He couldn't buy anything and it's all because of these stupid modeled predictions being completely hyped to the moon by social media and regular media. I'm making a prediction of my own: Those big numbers ain't gonna happen, this will blow over by April/May but not with millions getting infected and not 100,000+ deaths.
Basically all I'm doing is choosing to dwell on the positive rather than on the negatives. I'm well aware of both. Here's a quick quote I just saw:
Nelson Michael, director of the Center for Infectious Diseases Research at Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, also expressed cautious optimism during a briefing on COVID-19 on March 5. "This is a respiratory virus and they always give us trouble during cold weather," he said, predicting that the coronavirus may react like the flu and cause "less trouble as the weather warms up."
This ties in to what I posted the other day. Is it a fact yet, no but I choose to think this is the case and we'll just have to wait and find out.
If it turns out to be really bad, then freak out. Why do I say that? Because other then the usual standard precautions there's nothing else we can do anyway. Either we get it or we don't and even if I get it I'm not afraid of the odds. Of course of you guys suddenly don't hear from me ever again, well....
I don't know much about SARS as I arrived about a year later in Hong Kong. House prices had dropped 80%, so I should have, but didn't buy an apartment. If I had, my retirement would have been sorted... My sister left during it or shortly after and she said the fear was palpable. Remember it had a far higher mortality rate, I think about 10% from memory but it wasn't air born. They had trays of disinfectant outside the doors of their apartment and nobody knew what was going to happen. Their fear was that it would become air born. It spread through government housing estates via the badly designed drainage systems. Again, this is from memory. People were terrified, so this time they were a bit calmer here. It was also in Southern China as well, but the numbers were small. Interestingly, my brother is a professor of public health who worked at that time for the WHO and he was very shocked when his young colleague died of SARS aged about 40 leaving a widow and a young family.
For those who are interested, below is an assessment of SARS from the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine by Dr Lee Shui Hung MD FFCM. It's worth reading, because it's probably about where the US is now. Apparently the Hong Kong government did not take it all on board either but the whole community in Hong Kong was changed forever by SARS which is partly why so many of them dislike Chinese from the Mainland although ironically most of them were immigrants/escapees from the Mainland post 1945. In the 1980s when I stayed in Hong Kong, people spat in the streets, regularly ate street food etc. If you were caught spitting in the last 20 years you'd be fined.
Having said that, we were more lucky than prepared for Covid-19 and our government has nowhere near as much ability or will to control the population as the Mainland even with their initial cover ups and failures. The government here was afraid to even close the boarders with China for fear of their masters in Beijing. Before the riots prior to Covid-19 we (with a 7.4 m population) had 61 m Mainland tourists coming here in 2018. Surreal figures. Macau, our formerly Portuguese sister SAR is a bigger gambling centre than Vegas! Mainly doing its job of money laundering, Mainland money or so I'm told.
SARS
'Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) reached Hong Kong in March 2003.1 From 11 March up to 6 June, a total of 1750 cases had been identified (Figure 1), and during the same period 286 people died of the disease. Before the advent of SARS in Hong Kong, the nearby Guangdong Province in Mainland China had experienced an intense outbreak of the atypical pneumonia later termed SARS. This outbreak started in November 2002 and reached its peak in February 2003; up to 5 June 2003, Guangdong had recorded 1511 cases and 57 deaths. Later in April 2003, SARS cases were reported in other provinces and cities of Mainland China including Beijing, Shanxi, Neimonggol, Tianjin and Hebei. Up to 5 June 2003, Mainland China had a total of 5329 cases with 336 reported deaths.
From March onwards, SARS was detected in other countries and areas in the Asia-Pacific region. By the beginning of June, Singapore had had 205 cases with 28 deaths, Vietnam 63 cases with 5 deaths and Taiwan 686 cases with 81 deaths.
The SARS epidemic in Hong Kong has gone through three phases. The first was an explosive outbreak in a teaching hospital, affecting a large number of hospital staff and medical students. This phase took place in March 2003. The second phase was an outbreak in the community as a result of the spread of infection from the hospital to the community.3 This reached its peak in early April 2003 when the disease affected a housing estate known as Amoy Gardens; a total of 329 residents in that estate came down with the disease and 33 died. The third phase began in early May, with continuing occurrence of the disease in eight hospitals and more than 170 housing estates throughout the city but with the daily number of new cases declining from double to single digits in mid-June (the time of writing).
The first phase started when a professor from Guangzhou, who had been treating patients with atypical pneumonia in a Guangzhou hospital in Mainland China, visited Hong Kong in February 2003. He stayed at the Metropole Hotel in Kowloon on 21 February. The professor was already unwell when he travelled to Hong Kong and on 22 February he was admitted to the Kwong Wah Hospital in Kowloon. Later he died. From this first index case, 7 other people whose rooms had been on the same floor of the hotel contracted SARS, including 3 visitors from Singapore, 1 visitor from Vietnam, 2 visitors from Canada and 1 local person. Seemingly it was these 7 individuals who, having acquired the infection from the index case, transmitted SARS to Canada, Vietnam, Singapore, and elsewhere in Hong Kong. The local person was admitted to a teaching hospital, the Prince of Wales Hospital, at Shatin on 4 March 2003. From this patient the disease spread through that hospital, ultimately affecting over 100 medical and nursing personnel.
Amoy Gardens Phase 2 began in early April with the spread of SARS into the community. This was the time when daily new cases reached their peak. The severe outbreak in Amoy Gardens, a housing estate in Kowloon, began at this time. The index patient in this outbreak was a 33-year-old man who lived in Shenzhen and visited his brother in Amoy Gardens regularly. His chronic renal disease was being treated at the Prince of Wales Hospital. SARS symptoms developed on 14 March 2003. On that day and 19 March he visited his brother who owned a flat in Block E of the estate. He had diarrhoea and used the toilet there. His brother, his sister-in-law and 2 nurses who attended to him at Prince of Wales Hospital subsequently developed SARS. By 15 April 2003, there had been 321 SARS cases in Amoy Gardens, with an obvious concentration in Block E (41%).
A thorough local investigation, conducted by the Department of Health in collaboration with eight other government agencies, then indicated that environmental factors had played an important part in this outbreak. Each block at Amoy Gardens has 8 vertical soil stacks collecting effluent from the equivalent section on all floors. The soil stack is connected to the water closets, the basins, the bathtubs and the bathroom floor drains. Each of these sanitary fixtures is fitted with a U-shaped water trap to prevent foul smells and insects getting into the toilets from the soil stack. Clearly, for this to work, the U-traps must contain water. However, because most households were in the habit of cleaning the bathroom floor by mopping rather than flushing with water, the U-traps connected to most floor drains were probably dry and not functioning properly.
Laboratory studies indicate that many patients with SARS excrete coronavirus in their stools.5 As many as two-thirds of the patients in the Amoy Gardens outbreak had diarrhoea, so a very substantial virus load would have been discharged into the sewerage in Block E. Probably the index patient infected only a small group of Block E residents, with the remainder acquiring the disease via sewage, person-to-person contact and shared communal facilities such as lifts and staircases. These residents subsequently transmitted the disease to others both within and outside Block E through person-to-person contact and environmental contamination.
The bathroom floor drains with dried-up U-traps provided a pathway through which residents came into contact with small droplets containing viruses from the contaminated sewage. These droplets entered the bathroom floor drain through negative pressure generated by exhaust fans when the bathroom was being used with the door closed. Water vapour generated during a shower, and the moist conditions of the bathroom, could also have facilitated the formation of water droplets. The likelihood of exposure was enhanced by the small dimensions of the bathroom units (about 3.5 square metres). Virus-contaminated droplets could readily have been deposited on floor mats, towels, toiletries and other bathroom equipment.
The possibility of disease transmission by other routes—airborne, water-borne, infected dust aerosols—has been examined but there is neither epidemiological nor laboratory support for such mechanisms. A team of environmental experts from the WHO, visiting Amoy Gardens by invitation, agreed with the results of the investigation and also declared the buildings, now cleansed and disinfected, safe for habitation.
PREVENTION AND CONTROL The prevention and control measures undertaken in Hong Kong include: (1) preventive education and publicity; (2) tracing the source of infection; (3) introducing five major control measures (compulsory isolation and surveillance of contacts, stopping school and university education sessions, exchange of epidemiological information between Hong Kong and Mainland China, temperature checking of travellers at points of entry and exit, district-wide cleansing campaigns); (4) strengthening collaboration and communication with Mainland China and the WHO; and (5) developing a quick diagnostic test for SARS.
When the first few cases of SARS were identified, the Department of Health of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region Government passed legislation to make SARS a notifiable infectious disease. Patients with SARS were isolated in the hospitals, and family or close contacts were kept under surveillance, initially at home but later in isolation centres where they were observed for 10 days.
The public health workers undertook the investigations of the source of infection and the tracing of contacts, and promoted application of control measures including the wearing of masks, strict adherence to personal hygiene, and disinfection and cleansing of affected households and housing estates. Incoming and outgoing travellers were screened for fever exceeding 38°C and were required to complete a health declaration form. Apart from their intrinsic value, these measures served to alert the public to the high infectivity of SARS and the need for preventive measures.
In the middle of May 2003, when the epidemic began to slow down, the Government announced further measures. Three committees headed by senior government officials were established—one responsible for the overall cleansing campaigns and environmental improvements in the housing estates; a second for drawing up programmes to revitalize the economy of the city, including tourism, trade and employment; and the third to devise ways to promote community involvement and partnership in improving the physical, social and economic environments of the city. Additional funds were approved to support research on diagnosis, treatment, and vaccine development for SARS. A Centre for Disease Control and Prevention would be developed to strengthen surveillance, research, training and collaboration with other health authorities regionally and internationally.
At the end of May, the Hong Kong Government of the Special Administrative Region appointed a committee of nine experts from the USA, the UK, Australia, Mainland China and Hong Kong to make recommendations on future prevention and control of the disease. I am a member of this team.
Canada It is pertinent to refer briefly to the SARS outbreak in Canada, the country most severely affected outside Asia. As mentioned earlier, 2 visitors from Canada were infected at the Metropole Hotel, in Kowloon. Returning to Toronto they developed symptoms and later gave rise to a cluster of 16 other cases including 4 family members, 2 close contacts and 10 healthcare workers. When the outbreak in Toronto began in March 2003, the WHO issued a warning notice to travellers intending to visit the city—a notice later withdrawn after representations from the Canadian Health Ministry. When no further cases were reported, the outbreak seemed to have been brought under control. However, in mid-May there were further cases. In view of the evidence that more than one generation of cases had occurred, the WHO restored Toronto to the list of infected areas. By 14 June over 90 probable cases had been reported in this resurgence. This Canadian experience highlights the importance of continuing vigilance even when cases begin to decline.
Go to: SHORTCOMINGS The SARS outbreak reached epidemic proportions so quickly and explosively that the health and hospital authorities were unprepared. Initially there was an acute shortage of masks and protective clothing for the medical and health personnel, who were hard hit by the disease. Lack of epidemiological information about the disease hampered the prompt application of effective control measures. Because of inadequate communication, panic developed in the community and weakened cooperation and support from the public. Some contacts did not respond when the Department of Health asked them to attend for surveillance and quarantine. There were difficulties in designating hospitals for the isolation and treatment of SARS patients, because Hong Kong has no infectious-disease hospital as such. Since the wards of the general hospitals were not designed for patients with infectious disease, infection of healthcare staff became a serious issue. By June 2003, 386 medical, nursing and other healthcare workers in the hospitals and clinics had developed SARS and 8 of them (4 doctors, 1 nurse and 3 healthcare assistants) had died. Some hospital wards had to be closed temporarily, and general patients were transferred to other medical institutions to make way for the SARS patients. In the absence of a specific isolation centre for infectious disease, contacts were accommodated in holiday and recreation centres outside the city. Not being designed for the purpose, these were far from ideal. There was much evidence of distress among front-line healthcare workers and members of the public, many of whom were anxious, fearful and depressed. The SARS epidemic damaged not only health but also tourism, international travel and trade, social and business activity, and educational programmes.
Several features of the epidemic rendered control measures difficult in Hong Kong. Initially the cause was unknown, and lack of information on the mode of transmission hampered efforts at control. Because of the large number of cases, patients were admitted into various general hospitals unequipped to handle highly infectious diseases and numerous medical and nursing staff became infected. The lack of isolation facilities allowed infection of patients admitted to the same wards for other reasons. Many patients when admitted to hospital did not have the typical signs of SARS (fever, cough, evidence of chest infection), thus worsening the difficulties of cross-infection control. At one point there was discussion whether a single specially equipped hospital with 600-1000 beds should be designated to cater solely for patients with SARS or with fever on admission. Another issue was whether there should be permanent and proper quarantine facilities for isolation of contacts. Surveillance of contacts at home was not considered effective.
A further controversy arose over the International Health Regulations (IHR). These specify three diseases—namely, cholera, plague and yellow fever—about which the WHO must be notified by the health authorities concerned. The city must then declare itself ‘infected’ with that disease until after twice the incubation period from the last case reported. At the beginning of the SARS epidemic there was doubt whether Hong Kong should declare itself infected with SARS. Although the existing IHR did not include SARS, the WHO had issued a warning notice advising travellers not to visit Hong Kong because of the SARS epidemic—an advisory that drastically reduced the number of international visitors. In May 2003, when the epidemic began to show signs of decline, the WHO set out three conditions for withdrawal of the advisory—no case of SARS spreading to other cities outside Hong Kong; number of new cases less than 5 daily for three days; and number of patients in the hospitals less than 60. At the end of May, the WHO deemed these conditions fulfilled and lifted its advisory on international travellers, though Hong Kong remained on the list of infected areas.
In some circles the WHO is perceived to have over-reacted to the epidemic,8 causing unnecessary panic on the international scene and putting unjustified barriers in the way of persons from ‘infected’ areas wishing to attend such events as business exhibitions or international sports activities. It is noteworthy that, in May 2003, the World Health Assembly passed a resolution to revise the IHR. This was an appropriate decision since the emergence of new and highly infectious diseases has made the existing regulations out of date.
Go to: LESSONS LEARNED The lessons learned by Hong Kong can be summarized as follows:
SARS differed from previous epidemic infectious diseases in its explosive spread, which caught the health and hospital authorities by surprise and ill-prepared.
Inadequate epidemiological information about the disease hampered the prompt application of effective control measures. Insufficient communication with the public led to panic and thus weakened public cooperation and support.
Because there were no specified infectious disease hospitals, there were difficulties in designating hospitals for the isolation and treatment of SARS patients.
The SARS epidemic in Hong Kong not only affected the health of the people but also had social, economic, and humanitarian repercussions. It unveiled deficiencies in the public health arena and in coordination between the Department of Health and the Hospital Authority—reflected in lack of action between 22 February, when the index patient was admitted to Kwong Wah Hospital, and 4 March when the local contact arrived at the Prince of Wales Hospital. In that interval, the alarm could have been raised and front-line staff could have prepared themselves.
There was also deficient communication between the Secretary (Ministry) level responsible for health policy and the management level responsible for operation of the hospitals. Management inertia at various levels hampered decision-making and delayed implementation of effective measures.
The SARS epidemic also shed light on basic failings of the existing healthcare system in Hong Kong—overcrowded wards; poor ventilation in some hospitals; lack of isolation facilities; inadequate intensive care facilities; staff already working under heavy pressure; difficulty in isolating and cohorting patients with suspected or possible SARS, particularly at the point of admission and immediately thereafter.
The effect of the outbreak on intensive care and nursing personnel was disproportionately high. This worsened the pressures on other branches, particularly during the recovery phase when normal services had to be resumed.
Healthcare workers were put at special risk by certain procedures including use of nebulizers, endotracheal suction and intubation, cardiopulmonary resuscitation, nasogastric feeding, and the use of high flow rates of oxygen.9 The high risk presented by these procedures has implications for medical practice and organization of hospital care in the future.
There is a need to strengthen the exchange of epidemiological information on infectious diseases, especially the emergence of new infections, between the health authorities in Mainland China and Hong Kong. The establishment of a Centre for Disease Control and Prevention in Hong Kong should meet this need.
Hong Kong will continue to face the challenges of infectious disease, because of increasing environmental pollution, population movements, the influx of refugees and immigrants, the emergence of new infections and the changing lifestyle and behaviour of the population.10 There is a great need to set up a Centre for Disease Control and Prevention in Hong Kong so as to strengthen surveillance and exchange of epidemiological information with other health authorities, to undertake research and development on new vaccines and to train medical and scientific personnel on prevention, treatment and control of infectious diseases. On the plus side, the epidemic created an unprecedented sense of unity among all sectors—Government, non-governmental organizations, medical and nursing personnel—in the struggle to contain the epidemic. Various foundations were set up by non-governmental organizations and by public-spirited citizens to provide financial support to victims of SARS and their families. The devotion and self-sacrifice of medical and healthcare staff drew praise and appreciation from all sides, and strengthened the city's resolve to cope better with the challenges of infectious diseases in future. In this way, Hong Kong can be said to have turned the threats of the SARS epidemic into opportunities.'
Last edited by lambada; 03/14/2011:21 PM.
Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487 BIAB 2021 (Build 818) Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi) VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
The news media is sensationalizing this, no doubt, that's simply what they do.
Those who read/watch the news are misinformed, those who do not are uninformed.
Since some people have no symptoms, other people have mild symptoms, and the fact that there is a severe lack of testing kits, there is no way to know how many cases are out there.
Since there are an unknown number of unreported cases, the reported death percentage is surely lower that what is reported. How much lower? Without knowing how many unreported cases there are in the world, we don't know.
There is no way to know if someone you just shook hands with, served you your lunch, handed you cash/change for a purchase, gave you a receipt, or touched the door knob before you has no symptoms and is a modern equivalent of "Typhoid Mary."
Are we over-reacting? For sure some are and some are indeed under-reacting. That's just human nature.
There really is no way to stop it now. The fact is, sooner or later almost all of us will be exposed to it. I figure the best plan is to protect yourself so that you increase your chance of getting it later rather than sooner. The later you get it, the more the medical system will know about how to treat it.
I guess it's best to err on the side of caution but not to over-react. On the other hand, if you have a compromised immune system, I think it's best to take this very seriously.
I'm going to stay calm, do what I can, keep my immune system up, and figure if I get it, I'll be one of the mild cases. I don't think I've had the flu since the 1980s (I really can't remember), and I catch a mild cold every 15 years or so.
In migrant communities all over the country many have no health insurance so they go to ER's. The ER is their health insurance which is why btw when people like to say there are milliios of uninsured so they can't get care are full of crap. By federal law, anybody can go to an ER and get full medical care with no questions asked. .
You don’t have a very accurate understanding about what Federal Law requires for hospitals and emergency rooms. Hospitals are NOT required to provide FULL MEDICAL CARE to people without insurance. Hospitals and ERs are required to provide treatment for uninsured patients who present with life threatening conditions. If you show up with something not life threatening, you can be turned away. If you are treated, it isn’t free. The hospital can attempt to collect what they are owed.
Based on how the early cases have shown up, I would not expect a large number of cases in the migrant or low income groups until a bit later in the epidemic. The virus is currently being brought into the country by people with the financial means to travel overseas so the initial spread is going to be within their peer group.
You don’t have a very accurate understanding about what Federal Law requires for hospitals and emergency rooms. Hospitals are NOT required to provide FULL MEDICAL CARE to people without insurance. Hospitals and ERs are required to provide treatment for uninsured patients who present with life threatening conditions. If you show up with something not life threatening, you can be turned away. If you are treated, it isn’t free. The hospital can attempt to collect what they are owed.
I don't want to derail this thread but SoCal is ground zero for illegals from Mexico and Central America. Sorry but I use the term illegal, not immigrant. There are an estimated several million just in the LA/Orange County areas. The ER is their primary doctor and they absolutely DO NOT get turned away. Gazillions of local news reports about that over the years. I and a couple friends needed to to to an ER on a few occasions in the last 10 years and the waiting rooms have been packed, sometimes with folding chairs because the regular chairs and benches are full and 99% of the people are hispanics. They have no problem getting care and nobody cares if the ER produces a bill for payment either. There is a ton of cross border traffic and just my opinion, COVID 19 would go through that group very quickly if it was easy to get and it hasn't happened or we certainly would have heard about it.
Lambada what a great history of the SARS thing, thanks for that. No doubt COVID 19 is different so we can't make a direct comparison. My only point is the predictions vs the final reality. That may or may not play out the same in the current environment but I'm hopeful it winds up similar and I really do believe the rise of social media has had a huge bearing on all of this.
Here's a great video I found that's a Joe Rogan podcast featuring Dr. Osterholm who is a world renowned specialist in infectious diseases and gives talks at the Mayo Clinic among others. This is very sobering and is poking holes in some of my comments. I'm posting this because I'm more then willing to change my opinion and it could be helpful for others. Unlike news programs where you get a minute two of soundbite info this is an hour and a half and well worth watching.
What's really cool about this is it's a freewheeling discussion with almost no time limits so he's talking about COVID 19 then goes into another point about a deer virus that can get into humans then gets back to COVID 19 so don't bail out when that happens thinking the current virus part is over, it isn't. In the middle of this vid he starts talking about hand sanitizers, masks etc and he blows a lot of assumptions there too, some good, some not. Then later they talk about the "wet markets" in China with every animal imaginable and how these markets breed all kinds of bugs and viruses. Lots of food for thought here.
South Florida government is taking things pretty serious. Closing the beached and saying spring break is over.All school closed. Reduced hours for restaurants.
Bringing in the National Guard to help with testing.
In my neighborhood people are not taking this serious. Loud drunken birthday last night. Not changing hugging and such.
Number of cases has dubbed over to weekend.
By fishing buddy has lost over $150,000 in his 401K.
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
Up here all schools are closed and at 8 o'clock tonight all bars and restaurants will be shut down. Restaurants can only have take out orders, i.e. no sit down eating. All grocery and department stores close around 11 pm for disinfecting and restocking.
My son works in Walmart and said there is a run on bullets! It must be that people need to protect their toilet paper!
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Add updated printing options, enhanced tracks settings, smoother use of MGU and SGU (BB files) within PowerTracks, and more with the latest PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 update!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you over the phone. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday, and 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST Saturday. We are closed Sunday. You can also send us your questions via email.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you on our Live Chat or by email. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday; 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST (GMT -8) Saturday; Closed Sunday.
Norton Music
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean