I was trying to change my BIAB workflow a bit yesterday and stumbled on something that I had some issues in the past, which if my memory serves me well was not resolved.
Here is the scenario: 1) I have my arrangement chords / bar changes in BIAB. I select all with mouse ->right click copy. 2)I open second instance of BIAB do "paste"
And... there are some issues happening which are not obvious by just "looking at things". For example Real Drums would not change when selecting one from the picker, but for example "loops" would load on that track, still showing previously selected Real Drums NAME... Does not make any sense. Also some weird behavior on other tracks. Tracks are not frozen. Regeneration does not help.
Can someone who knows exactly what is going on when copying and pasting chords from another instance explain? Seems there some other stuff being copied that is more than just chords and bar changes.
Actual question is: How do I copy and paste only chords+bar changes from instance to instance, nothing else?
P.S. I feel I should mention this too. The RT selections in mixer from one instance to another differ, but instrument "types": drums, bass etc are in the right slots. Also, there are no "change of RT or RD" at the bars in both instances. Also I did download latest built last night, did not solve this.
Your interesting question reveals that something has changed since I last looked at this. You couldn't do this at all. This was a frequent and long-standing request, because why have the ability to open a second instance of BIAB if you couldn't do copy/paste into it?
SO I don't know, and I wouldn't be surprised if others don't either.
Anyone?
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...Actual question is: How do I copy and paste only chords+bar changes from instance to instance, nothing else?
Misha, I couldn't get any part of an instance to copy to another instance.
To the best of my knowledge this is still not possible.
I tried copying everything from one chord sheet to the other chord sheet, including bar changes created with <F5>. The style didn't copy, the chords didn't copy and the bar changes didn't copy.
It's never previously been possible, and I don't think that the latest version allows it also, but I'd really like to see a video showing me that it's a new feature!
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Matt, VideoTrack, Thank you! Yes, now I see what you are saying about impossibility of instance to instance copy. I had 2 instances opened and had items "copied to clip board" in both and since arrangement was very similar, I thought I was copying from one instance to another LOL!
But the drum part of the issue is happening regardless, and it seems started when I did this: Opened arrangement, copied chords (select / copy). Opened another arrangement, pasted.
Real Drums would not change when selecting one from the picker, but for example "loops" would load on that track, still showing previously selected Real Drums NAME... Does not make any sense.
I overcame this by switching Bass and Drums tracks around. Then I was able to change out Real Drums. Still some sections of tracks had strange behavior, almost like a track was "frozen" in some way with another set of chords and bar changes So my question is slightly changed but remains unsolved:
How do I copy and paste only chords+bar changes from one arrangement to another nothing else that might interfere or cause issues as described above?
BTW, if we had more tracks available in mixer, this would be a non issue
How do I copy and paste only chords+bar changes from one arrangement to another nothing else that might interfere or cause issues as described above?
You did copy from one arrangement (file) then close it. Then open another another file or a create a new file. Then paste. Right? That appears to be the limits of BIAB ability to copy and paste between files.
How do I copy and paste only chords+bar changes from one arrangement to another nothing else that might interfere or cause issues as described above?
You did copy from one arrangement (file) then close it. Then open another another file or a create a new file. Then paste. Right? That appears to be the limits of BIAB ability to copy and paste between files.
Dan
Yes, that's an odd distinction. Closing and reopening BIAB allows copying but opening a second instance does not.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
I thought it was File > Import > Import MGU Song then in the dialog check Chords I know you can copy Audio sections from one Audio Edit to the other, and drag audio selected bars from the DROP into another Audio Edit and also MID into another instance now.
I had two projects A and B. 1)I opened project A selected chord grid->copy. 2)Opened project B (the A closed, I assume) and "pasted" chords.
After wrestling with this for a while I tried to export project as stems (individual wavs) and it gave me "Rendering failed" error. Rebooted. I tried it with different audio card / driver, same thing. So I opened another project from last month and tried to render it for testing purposes, also got "render failed" message.
So...I figured that something must got corrupted in software itself. So I've done a BIAB factory reset and EVERYTHING WORKED fine.
What I suspect is happening is something gets corrupted in software when copying/pasting chord sheet between projects. About a year ago similar thing happened. All chords became red in color and it would not play and I had to factory default the program to fix it. Now I remember, that is why I stopped doing this "between" project copying and pasting Not long ago a fellow posted in one of the topics that his chords "turned red", interesting if he was doing some copying too.
Pipeline, Thank you for: import chords from MGU tip. Seems to do the job.
I had two projects A and B. 1)I opened project A selected chord grid->copy. 2)Opened project B (the A closed, I assume) and "pasted" chords.
After wrestling with this for a while I tried to export project as stems (individual wavs) and it gave me "Rendering failed" error. Rebooted. I tried it with different audio card / driver, same thing. So I opened another project from last month and tried to render it for testing purposes, also got "render failed" message.
So...I figured that something must got corrupted in software itself. So I've done a BIAB factory reset and EVERYTHING WORKED fine.
What I suspect is happening is something gets corrupted in software when copying/pasting chord sheet between projects. About a year ago similar thing happened. All chords became red in color and it would not play and I had to factory default the program to fix it. Now I remember, that is why I stopped doing this "between" project copying and pasting Not long ago a fellow posted in one of the topics that his chords "turned red", interesting if he was doing some copying too.
Pipeline, Thank you for: import chords from MGU tip. Seems to do the job.
Misha.
Hi Misha. Can you give a bit more explanation to your end product purpose? If I'm understanding correctly, it appears to me, with you exporting stems and the Chord Chart from one project to the other, you were wanting to move sub-mixes from project A to Project B to possibly combine the two projects into a more complex single arrangement.
Hi Charlie. "possibly combine the two projects into a more complex single arrangement" That the goal
There are several ways that I can do this. The easiest one which will resolve this once and for all (and would solve other issues requests) still remains a "wish" - more available tracks in mixer.
All others are "workarounds". The easiest one for me is to create two separate projects with same amount of bars + parts and work on them, trying out different RT's, keeping them "liquid" (modifiable) until I am ready to export stems. Then render project A + project B --> import to DAW.
RB is not something I would use.
P.S. Charlie, I wanted to respond to you on the other thread about getting from point A to point B through shortest route, but it was not my topic, I did not want to steer it from original request by OP. So re-flashing the thought. In my opinion, it is quite opposite. The more automated non-creative, tedious processes are, the more time you have to get creative and less unnecessary items to keep in memory.
So, even Pipeline's suggestion of importing the chords through SGU is a step in unwanted direction. Sure, it is easy enough, but why? If the bugs are fixed in copying the chord sheet from project to project or even from instance of BIAB to another instance, life would be a few seconds longer for other things. (Pipeline, please do not hold against me, your suggestion is actually the one that 100% works) But ultimately, my #1 BIAB request is to have more available tracks in the mixer. That should solve ~90% frustrations in my workflow.
Misha, I've come to agree with you 100%. Your workflow is the new norm and recently even Deryk and Dr. Gannon have both addressed the 8 channel 'limitation' of BIAB with anything beyond 8 tracks, that's what RealBand is for... Like Trevor noted, more tracks is a long standing request.
There is no interest, curiosity or appeal that today with just BIAB and digital recording, I can compile a song with 70 instruments on a dozen tracks using MIDI, MIDI Super Tracks, Loops, samples, RealTracks, imported audio and live recorded audio of CD quality audio in a single project that's a first generation analog audio render in around 30 minutes but people are put off that it uses techniques that today are considered antiquated, dated and workarounds.
I evolved from a time that workarounds were the norm in recording. The norm to real, physical limitations and technology that could only support 4,8,16 and eventually 24 hardware tracks and no digital salvation. Old school recording where the likes of Lindsey Buckingham took a year on a 24 track 3m M79 Tape Deck to publish 11 tracks that run 39:43 minutes. According to CNN, "After a year of 10-to-14 hour workdays, the use of seven recording studios and just under $1 million in production costs, Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours" was released in 1977."
Today BIAB doesn't have those physical limitations that Lindsey Buckingham faced. Today BIAB can produce tracks more than equal in audio quality to what existed in 1976. Today, BIAB can store 1,000 times the audio for pennies to what cost $1 million dollars in 1977. I've posted my 'workarounds' in various other posts over the past year without generating a single question. I've finally got the message there's no interest, curiosity or appeal to using BIAB's multi track recorder and DAW capability so hopefully over the next few years, PG Music will respond and add more tracks.
Charlie, I did not mean to make you upset. I know you are very knowledgeable person, and I truly respect that. I am pretty sure you can make a tune far more complex and interesting using your skills than I
I feel that With certain improvements to BIAB which will result in saved time, "Curiosity and appeal" can be shifted to other areas of creativity (which are more important to me than technical aspect) like song writing, arrangement, sound design, etc.
Also on this. "techniques that today are considered antiquated, dated and workarounds" Same idea. If the "guts" are there, why not re-design them so they are streamlined into the process easy accessible and intuitive? This is a big advantage of SoFtware, as it can evolve, vs limits of hardware.
Charlie, I did not mean to make you upset. I know you are very knowledgeable person, and I truly respect that. I am pretty sure you can make a tune far more complex and interesting using your skills than I
I feel that With certain improvements to BIAB which will result in saved time, "Curiosity and appeal" can be shifted to other areas of creativity (which are more important to me than technical aspect) like song writing, arrangement, sound design, etc.
Also on this. "techniques that today are considered antiquated, dated and workarounds" Same idea. If the "guts" are there, why not re-design them so they are streamlined into the process easy accessible and intuitive? This is a big advantage of SoFtware, as it can evolve, vs limits of hardware.
I completely agree. I would add simplicity to your list. If BiaB opened up all 16 channels for us users and had those channels listed in the mixer life would be a lot easier for many of us. More time would be spent composing, arranging, mixing, etc, then doing some convoluted workaround to add more tracks. YMMV
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
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... If BiaB opened up all 16 channels for us users and had those channels listed in the mixer life would be a lot easier for many of us. More time would be spent composing, arranging, mixing, etc, then doing some convoluted workaround to add more tracks. YMMV
Mario, we've both commented many times on this proposal to open up more channels, but let's get down to specifics.
BIAB currently uses these default channels:
2 for bass 3 for piano 4 for Melody 6 for guitar 7 for strings 8 for Soloist 10 of course for drums and 5 for Thru
Channel 1 is not used as Peter described because it was not supported by early synths. If memory serves, some devices use channel 1 for control info.
In Options, Preferences, Channels, Harmony, we see that BIAB can use additional channels 11, 12, 13 & 14 for Harmony.
So that leaves channels 9, 15 and 16 open.
Finally, if you Save a file to MIDI, you have the option to Write Guitar part on 6 channels. I don't know which channels they are using, as there must be some overlap with the above assignments.
So I'm at a loss to see how BIAB has any channels free.
I have always thought the quickest solution is to open up a second bank of 16 channels. Even my ancient notation software from the early 1990s has this. But as many things we debate, this would require making changes to the file structure of a song, jeopardizing backward compatibility.
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forgive me but why the disinclination to use RealBand? all the tracks you could need, generate midi or RealTracks to your heart's content and edit, regenerate, mix or add fx as you please...............
why are people reluctant to use RB? i've said before i bought BIAB on floppies and got PowerTracks free. Right from the beginning i found the way to work was create in RB then edit in PT. In those days if i wanted another BIAB track - say an instrument not in the current style, I'd open the original BIAB file, find a style with the right instrument, generate, then export a midi file to clipboard, open in PT, copy the midi track i wanted then open the original song in PT and paste.
now RB does it for me. am i the only person that discovered the PT workaround for adding BIAB tracks? and is that why i simply moved over to RB when I got it?
BIAB is wonderful but all the bells and whistles over and above the basics need arcane knowledge of procedures buried in the program whereas with RB they are right in front of you.
rant over but i'm still puzzled why so many people don't want to go from BIAB to RB
Exactly. For years people have requested DAW type functions in BIAB, but BIAB is NOT a DAW. However, when PG Music made Realband capable of opening BIAB files and included it for FREE with the purchase of BIAB, it answered all those needs. Problem solved.
People often ask “What is the difference between BIAB and Realband?”. The answer is nothing – they work together to provide complete capability.
Sometimes I think this would be better understood if there were a tab within BIAB labeled “Additional Tracks and Total control”. When the user clicked on that tab up would pop Realband!
I'm not upset at all Misha and I apologize if I came across that way. To the contrary, I enjoy my conversation with you. We just have different paths of creativity in how we use BIAB and that's OK with me and hopefully it is with you as well. I have the greatest respect for you and particularly your initiative in submitting your ideas to make BIAB a better product. Anything you may achieve ultimately will benefit me too.
Regarding your statement; "Also on this. "techniques that today are considered antiquated, dated and workarounds" Same idea. If the "guts" are there, why not re-design them so they are streamlined into the process easy accessible and intuitive? This is a big advantage of Software, as it can evolve, vs limits of hardware." I've got what I hope is good news for you.
The main BIAB technique I use nearly every day but others might consider antiquated, dated and a workaround has been streamlined into the BIAB process, is easily accessible and certainly intuitive. It's a single project User Track called an Artist Performance Track and its been around at least since 2013. It functions as 'bouncing' and yes, it's been around since the earliest days of multi track recording for various uses. But it has evolved over time and is still current and available both in modern hardware stand alone digital multi track recorders but you may be surprised to learn, it's also still used in modern DAW's even if they have unlimited track counts. In hardware units and DAW's, bouncing is used to quickly and efficiently render midi to audio, consolidate edited tracks, render audio that have had effects added to them to limit CPU usage or avoid having too many instances of an effect and of course, to increase track count. If you're familiar with Studio One 4, Ctrl-B is a bounce process.
These modern DAW and hardware techniques are also a feature (not a workaround at all) of the APT in BIAB. It will do a traditional bounce to increase track count but also automatically render MIDI to Audio, Freeze a track or mix, and consolidate edited tracks to reduce CPU usage. For a single track, access the Performance Track command by right clicking on the track and choosing Track Actions. For mixes and other more complex and advanced features, APT's are accessed from the top Audio menu. APT's can be easily reversed, edited and modified and doing so in the Mixer, the original instrument that was on a track replaces the APT. Somehow, it creates a WAV file much faster than a normal render. You may never need to bounce a mix track but having a track frozen, A MIDI file automatically rendered to audio and WAV or WMA file automatically created and stored in a folder of that frozen track indispensable. To have an accurate audio file of a frozen track available to open in RealBand or another DAW may be indispensable to you.
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