I've recently started using Subgroups in RealBand, e.g., for a Percussion Subgroup, mixing multiple individual Percussion Tracks. This greatly reduces the number of plugins required, as I can use one compressor & EQ for the entire Subgroup. And I can control the volume of the entire Subgroup with one fader.
However, I discovered that the Subgroup FX slots are all post-fader. This setup makes it very difficult to use compressors, because when I adjust the volume of the Subgroup, it alters the input level to the compressor, which screws up the compression settings.
There are situations where post-fader FX are useful (e.g. reverb). In those situations, Subgroup FX would be like the AUX sends on Tracks. But I would have thought that most Subgroup FX would be best applied pre-fader.
Assuming there are valid uses of post-fader FX, it would be helpful for Subgroup FX to be switchable to pre- or post-fader. Or, maybe Subgroup Slots could use their own AUX sends for post-fader FX, and the Subgroup FX Slots could all be pre-fader. This would make Subgroups the same as Tracks. Another option available in other DAWs is to send multiple Tracks to another set of Tracks = basically creating a Subgroup, but in the Tracks strips. This enables pre-fader FX slots and post-fader AUX sends.
Is anything like this in the works? Or is there some other work-around I should be using?
This setup makes it very difficult to use compressors, because when I adjust the volume of the Subgroup, it alters the input level to the compressor, which screws up the compression settings.
FWIW (in my experience), the compressor plugin itself also has an input level adjustment .. if you reduce the subgroup, boost the compressor input to compensate if needed
I do understand what you are asking for is different, I'm just suggesting a possible workaround
Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
why would you want the same compression setting on all instruments in the subgroup? often different parts of a percussion set benefit from different compression. sounds like a better method would be to mix down the tracks you are sending to the subgroup to one combined track with the right relative volumes, and each with its own compression setting. Resource intensive but only for a short while. Then mute the original tracks and use the compressor on the mixed down track if you think its necessary - like using a compressor on a final mix. and you still get one fader to control the volume.
I'm still a little unsure whether a compressor on the final track will give you the sound you want as it will try to boost some of the mixed down track elements you compressed earlier. so maybe the individual tracks compressed singly and mixed down with no compression but one fader for volume is the best way to go.
Thanks. My workaround was to use a compressor's output gain to control the Subgroup volume, and leave the Subgroup Fader at 127. Your suggestion is similar, though turning down the compressor's input gain would affet how the signal hits the threshold, and so would require re-setting the threshold, too.
I love the idea of mixing down tracks, so I could bypass the channels & plugins. But how do you do that in RealBand? Unless you mean rendering, say, just the percussion tracks and then importing the wav file? Many DAWs have the functionality to "render in place" built in. Plus, I ended up changing the balance of some of the percussion parts later in the process.
But what I was doing was using compressors on each part, then a "mastering compressor" on the whole Subgroup, to help them sit together in the mix. It's one of the reasons I run into trouble listening to some tracks. My computer starts stuttering during playback if I use more than ~25 plugins at once. I've been able to render the tracks OK, but it's a problem during mixing.
Another example of Subgroup compression is background vocals: I overdubbed 4 background parts and sent them to a Subgroup with a single compressor and EQ. Maybe that only worked because it was only my voice & phrasing. Then, as in my prior post, I used the compressor's output gain to change overall volume without affecting compression settings.
Glad you found a workaround Rendering to Wav and importing is one way, selecting a number of tracks and then right-click - Track - Merge .. has another method of rendering tracks to other track
Last edited by rharv; 05/10/2002:41 AM.
Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Thanks rharv! This is the "render in place" functionality I was looking for. It will serve until RealBand allows Subgroup FX Slots to be pre- or post-fader.
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