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#608869 - 07/31/20 01:00 PM [I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube] Samba cover of "Take the Hand", a Todd Rundgren composition from his group Nazz
Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 100
cwiggins999 Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 100
I started working with BiaB at the beginning of April, during a lot of the Covid-19 lockdown. I bought the Pro Pack, not knowing that something called RealTracks even existed. I was initially looking for an app where I could type in chords and generate simple MIDI that I could feed into various plugins. I quickly saw the potential of using RealTracks for the kinds of music I want to produce, so within a few days had upgraded to the UltraPak. My genres of choice are jazz/latin primarily, with a dose of exotica and rock mixed in. And I'm primarily focused on doing rearrangements/reimaginations of pop/rock songs.

This particular song is a cover from the repertoire of Nazz, a group from the late 1960s. It was Todd Rundgren's first band, and he was the primary songwriter, although not the vocalist. Todd has been one of my primary influences since the early 1970s, so it's only natural I mess around with his songs. The original is a rock ballad, but my take is as a samba.

https://youtu.be/TEGuX3hqXtw

One of my primary vocal inspirations is Kenny Rankin, and a lot of the arrangements I'm coming up with are influenced by the instrumentation he has on many of his early albums. Nylon string guitars playing bossa or samba patterns are the foundation for many of these. When I started working with RealTracks, I was blown away by how well the jazz guitar tracks worked for the songs I want to produce - especially the nylon guitar tracks from Oliver Gannon. It's been like working with real musicians :-)

I've also suffered a dislocated shoulder and rotator cuff injuries in the past couple of months, and am awaiting surgery. My original intent was to play all the keyboards and sing, and use BiaB for everything else. But I've even had to use some keyboard tracks, and have been very pleased with them. So I'm able to comfortably sit in the arranger/producer/singer chairs and let BiaB handle most of the rest. Really great product. I hope you enjoy this song!

The video was produced by a good friend and fellow Todd Rundgren fan, Ronnie Temple, who I met at Todd's house in Hawaii during his 60th birthday celebration in 2008. We've been close friends ever since, and he worked in the corporate video world for many years, so was a natural to partner with.

Everything but vocals are from BiaB. I mixed/mastered in Cakewalk.

Style is _NOITE+.STY (Noite Brazilian Samba MultiStyle)

RealTracks in style: ~717:Bass, Acoustic, Samba Ev 190
RealTracks in song: 2892:Piano, Electric, Rhythm FusionFastLatinJeff Ev 190
RealTracks in style: 3256:Guitar, Nylon, Rhythm SambaRamon Ev 240
RealTracks in song: 723:Sax, Soprano, Soloist Samba Ev 190
RealTracks in song: 1773:Piano, Electric, Soloist JazzFunkMovin Ev16 130
RealDrums [in style:SambaBrazilFastBrushPercAlex: a: SambaBrazilFastBrushPercAlexb: SambaBrazilFastBrushPercAlex

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#608886 - 07/31/20 02:36 PM [I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube] Re: Samba cover of "Take the Hand", a Todd Rundgren composition from his group Nazz [Re: cwiggins999]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 11379
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 11379
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Quote:
So I'm able to comfortably sit in the arranger/producer/singer chairs and let BiaB handle most of the rest.

I believe that you certainly sat in every one of those chairs extremely well. A great arrangement.
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#608890 - 07/31/20 02:50 PM [I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube] Re: Samba cover of "Take the Hand", a Todd Rundgren composition from his group Nazz [Re: cwiggins999]
Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 100
cwiggins999 Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 100
Thanks, VideoTrack! I find the whole process of developing an arrangement a real blast in BiaB. I like many find the interface a bit antiquated and quirky, but once I got into the "groove" of things, I enjoy being able to mix and match as needed.

BTW, I have a link to the original Nazz version in the Youtube video comments. but here it is as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWuPEHLzCaU

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#610269 - 08/11/20 06:12 AM [I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube] Re: Samba cover of "Take the Hand", a Todd Rundgren composition from his group Nazz [Re: cwiggins999]
Registered: 02/15/17
Posts: 3226
Deryk - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 02/15/17
Posts: 3226
Wow - very well done, I thoroughly enjoyed my listen. It fits really well with the samba groove smile
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Deryk

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#610602 - 08/13/20 03:57 PM [I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube] Re: Samba cover of "Take the Hand", a Todd Rundgren composition from his group Nazz [Re: cwiggins999]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20460
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20460
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Nice vocal.

Love those sambas.

+1 for Kenny Rankin and Todd Rundgren. They both record near me (or used to).

It sounded to me like the sax sound was struggling. If you are only a few metronome markings away from the recommended tempo, it can affect some RealTracks. Sambas in BIAB can be tricky because most of the RealTracks are counted in 4/4 with tempos around 190 (like some of the ones you used). Your song is clearly in cut time at 120 bpm. However, your BIAB tempo is probably set at 240, yes? Then you fall into that middle ground where its uncertain what instruments to use. The drums adapt well. Other instruments, you might consider changing the time base. When you select a RealTrack, you will see a setting for double-time or half-time. Play around with it on some instruments like the solo piano; you might be surprised.
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BIAB 2020 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition CC, Notion; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#610677 - 08/14/20 09:43 AM [I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube] Re: Samba cover of "Take the Hand", a Todd Rundgren composition from his group Nazz [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 100
cwiggins999 Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 100
Matt, thanks so much for listening and also for the comments and recommendations. I’ve listen to your Brazilian recording and love it so I know you are well-versed in the style. I’m recovering from shoulder surgery so mostly replying via Siri, otherwise I would go into more detail about how much I enjoyed your recording. But I do look forward to listening again.

And thanks so much for the suggestions – you are correct that the tempo is 240 , And the soprano sax is at 190. So a middle ground. When I get a chance to sit back at the computer I will experiment a bit more with some tempos and other settings. I have used the halftime and double time settings on other tunes and it’s giving some good results in some cases. I’m still like a kid in a candy store with Band in a box, having all of these virtual side man at my beckoning . So still working out my own best practices and checklist for the whole workflow. I’m having a blast with it.!

A question you or someone else might be able to help with. If I do want to work with the tempo change, I had frozen the tracks in the BiaB file because I like the sax and how it would integrate with the vocal. If I change the track tempo I assume I would have to unfreeze everything and then I would get completely different playing. Is there some notion where unfreezing a track would still give the same patterns that were played previously? I hope that makes sense. I would think BiaB internally has to have some "road map" they calculate for each instrument each time the tracks are regenerated. Would be nice to freeze that.


Edited by cwiggins999 (08/15/20 08:59 AM)

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#610970 - 08/16/20 04:58 PM [I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube] Re: Samba cover of "Take the Hand", a Todd Rundgren composition from his group Nazz [Re: cwiggins999]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20460
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20460
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I think I understand this question. If the song tempo changes, the song really should regenerate and then you get what you get for comping patterns, with no guarantees it will have all the elements you like from another generation. If you just freeze all the tracks and change the tempo too far, you'll get unpleasant artifacts in the sound. But you are correct, some amazing things can be done by freezing some tracks and not others. Another poster today wanted pushes on just the guitar, for example. When you combine freezing with time base, there are so many possibilities.

Thanks for the kind words about my music. I don't generally run into the problem of a soloist RealTrack sounding not quite right, because that's the part I furnish, so I don't have any good suggestions.

I did want to mention I've had a short discussion with Peter Gannon about the tempo of a samba. I hear them counted in two at tempos around 100. BIAB counts them in four at tempos close to 200. My drummer on the CD, who played with Spyro Gyra and Blood, Sweat & Tears, agrees with me. A similar problem exists in BIAB Bluegrass. I hope we could see some samba styles in the future more like what I think is the standard: cut time. The good news is that, with the BIAB time base being extended to RealDrums recently, all the tools are there.
_________________________
BIAB 2020 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition CC, Notion; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#611121 - 08/17/20 08:47 PM [I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube] Re: Samba cover of "Take the Hand", a Todd Rundgren composition from his group Nazz [Re: cwiggins999]
Registered: 04/26/20
Posts: 92
Henry Clarke Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/20
Posts: 92
I absolutely LOVE THIS !! So smooth and cool !! Video's nice. I also like rearranging covers in a different style but this ain't about me. It's about you. Nice job and very well done. I have no IMHO's tips for you musically ... LOL In my view if I like what I produce and NON-Musicians like it I'm overjoyed. Produce for music lovers and not musicians and you'll be a lot happier. Musicians are great but sometimes a bit too picky. Even if the notes wrong if the feels right it all works out. I learned that from a few producers over the years.

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#611324 - 08/19/20 03:51 PM [I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube] Re: Samba cover of "Take the Hand", a Todd Rundgren composition from his group Nazz [Re: cwiggins999]
Registered: 06/19/17
Posts: 2328
Loc: Victoria, BC
Ember - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 06/19/17
Posts: 2328
Loc: Victoria, BC
I really enjoyed the use of the Style! Thanks for sharing.
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Ember

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#611516 - 08/21/20 08:13 AM [I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube] Re: Samba cover of "Take the Hand", a Todd Rundgren composition from his group Nazz [Re: cwiggins999]
Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 100
cwiggins999 Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 100
Thanks! The huge variety of styles and ability to audition and swap in various RealTracks give an incredible amount of choice to musicians.

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