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#610576 - 08/13/20 12:56 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME?
Registered: 04/04/18
Posts: 100
goofeyfoot Offline
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Hello all:

I am able to use ASIO when using Band in a Box. However, when I create a file there, I can’t use ASIO when working on the file within Real Band. if I try to, the sound in Real Band comes out all garbled.

Today, I contacted the chat helpline at PG Music. The guy there told me that MME was actually better than ASIO and to switch over to MME.

I don’t get it, everything I’ve ever heard says that ASIO is better than MME. Which is it? Isn’t one better than the other? Shouldn’t I be able to use ASIO with both programs?

Thanks.

Michael
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#610578 - 08/13/20 01:06 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME? [Re: goofeyfoot]
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Matt Finley Offline
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Normally an ASIO driver is written by the vendor of your hardware and works best. The problem is that normally you cannot have more than one program open using an ASIO driver. So you use ASIO on the program in which you do recording. For playback, MME is fine. There’s more to it, but does this help?
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#610593 - 08/13/20 03:00 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME? [Re: Matt Finley]
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goofeyfoot Offline
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Well yes it helps. I was trying to use ASIO both in Band in a Box and in Real Band. I never run both programs at the same time. So I thought it would be OK, but maybe not.
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#610594 - 08/13/20 03:01 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME? [Re: goofeyfoot]
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rharv Offline
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Originally Posted By: goofeyfoot
Hello all:

I don’t get it, everything I’ve ever heard says that ASIO is better than MME. Which is it? Isn’t one better than the other? Shouldn’t I be able to use ASIO with both programs?

Thanks.

Michael


Yes, yes you should.
Sounds like configuration problem to me.
Possibly an ASIO control problem from too many programs open trying to use the ASIO driver.

Is BiaB still Open when you switch to Realband?
Try closing everything else that may be trying to use the audio out and then open RB and try again to eliminate this possibility.
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#610637 - 08/13/20 09:37 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME? [Re: goofeyfoot]
Registered: 10/31/08
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Noel96 Offline
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Goofeyfoot,

Just to clarify when Matt said, "For playback, MME is fine."

When it comes to the sound that you hear from your speakers, whether the driver is ASIO or MME or WAS doesn't matter. The sound from the speakers is identical. The driver does not change the sounds, it provides a means of getting the sound to the speaker.

For getting sound to the speakers, ASIO and WAS are the quickest. MME uses is slower. This is a problem if your record in BIAB because there will be latency between the audio input from the microphone and the audio output of BIAB.

If you are not recording it doesn't matter which one you use provided the soundcard is happy with MME. There are some audio cards that require their maker's ASIO drive (e.g. I think Focusrite might be one of those cards).

I always run my BIAB using MME. My soundcard and BIAB get on better together with it.

Regards,
Noel
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#610650 - 08/14/20 05:30 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME? [Re: Noel96]
Registered: 04/04/18
Posts: 100
goofeyfoot Offline
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Noel:

I do the original song in BIAB. Then I move the song over to RB for editing. I don’t simply listen to the song in RB. I add instrumentation and MIDI there.

So I believe that I need ASIO on both ends of the enterprise.

Thanks.

Michael
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#610651 - 08/14/20 05:37 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME? [Re: rharv]
Registered: 04/04/18
Posts: 100
goofeyfoot Offline
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Rharv:

I don’t keep both applications open. I shut everything down that seems like it could be using a sound card. For example I don’t have a browser open to some website. I close all that.

I think I posted it elsewhere but there’s a couple of shots to show you what the configuration looks like.

Thanks.

Michael


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#610676 - 08/14/20 09:31 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME? [Re: goofeyfoot]
Registered: 09/21/01
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Loc: UK
Bob Calver Online   content
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you don't need ASIO in BIAB because you are only listening to playback. ASIO allows you to record with no latency - you play along with the recording. if you are using MME the backing wouldn't sync with the recording when you played the recording back. but MME is the safest least problem prone driver to use with BIAB in most cases.

once you are in RB i used to get perfect results using WAS which eliminates latency. but if you are using a Focusrite 8i18 External Card you should have a focusrite ASIO driver that should work perfectly.

if you use that it should look after the routing automatically from the RB driver choice dialogue.


Edited by Bob Calver (08/14/20 09:32 AM)

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#610678 - 08/14/20 09:48 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME? [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 04/04/18
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goofeyfoot Offline
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I'm not sure you are following what I am saying.

"I am able to use ASIO when using Band in a Box. However, when I create a file there, I can’t use ASIO when working on the file within Real Band. if I try to, the sound in Real Band comes out all garbled."

You state that "...if you are using a Focusrite 8i18 External Card you should have a focusrite ASIO driver that should work perfectly..."

Point is it does not work perfectly, as stated in the quoted text.

Thanks.

Michael
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#610680 - 08/14/20 10:19 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME? [Re: goofeyfoot]
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Matt Finley Offline
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The first thing to do is look in the Focusrite Scarlet mixer for the ASIO settings, then try adjusting the buffer size up or down. That may be the cause of the garbled sound. Or it may not, but that's the first thing to try.
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#610688 - 08/14/20 11:15 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME? [Re: Matt Finley]
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MarioD Offline
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Michael,

You mentioned garbled sound. Is it all distorted? Or does it stop and start a lot? Can you upload an example as it may help us determine your problem.

Matt's buffer suggestion is the way to go. In my DAW, Studio One Pro 5, I use a low buffer setting to record. But when I get all of my recording finished and I'm adding effects and such I have to increase those buffers. What are your buffer numbers?

Technically you should be able to run ASIO in BiaB, shut down BiaB, then run RB with ASIO drivers. I run BiaB in MME and my DAW in ASIO so I can have them both on screen and usable simultaneously.
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#610690 - 08/14/20 11:44 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME? [Re: goofeyfoot]
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goofeyfoot Offline
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I reduced the Focusrite buffer to 64. For some reason it now works.

Although I wonder how long that will retain!

Thanks

Michael
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#610694 - 08/14/20 12:53 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME? [Re: goofeyfoot]
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Matt Finley Offline
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That’s good, and it’s actually quite low. Your computer must be fast. I cannot go below 256. As Mario added, when you play back a file AND use other processing on it such as an equalizer (there are tons of plugins with tons of purposes), then you may need to raise the buffers. Just lower them for recording.
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#610702 - 08/14/20 02:30 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME? [Re: Matt Finley]
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sslechta Offline
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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
That’s good, and it’s actually quite low. Your computer must be fast. I cannot go below 256.

I have my buffers set to 1024 samples most of the time in Pro Tools as I use a ton of plugins and only lower the number when I record to 256.
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#610769 - 08/15/20 04:31 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME? [Re: goofeyfoot]
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Bob Calver Online   content
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apologies - i was just trying to answer the question about ASIO being better than MME.

with my behringer unit the dedicated ASIO driver works 'straight out of the box'.

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#610886 - 08/15/20 10:35 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME? [Re: goofeyfoot]
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jazzmammal Offline
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Originally Posted By: goofeyfoot
So I believe that I need ASIO on both ends of the enterprise.


You keep missing this point Michael. No you don't unless you're doing live recording and by live I mean you're listening to Biab in headphones while you're recording a midi synth. A hardware synth is no problem, it's a midi synth. The whole reason Steinberg invented ASIO in the first place was for live midi recording.

If you don't know already, I'm talking about you've got some audio tracks laid down and want to add some midi tracks. You grab a midi keyboard and use it to control a softsynth like Sampletank or Kontakt or even the standard Coyote Wavetable Biab ships with.

Playing a softsynth live using MME causes horrendous latency like a half a second. You can't play and record something if you're hearing it a half second behind the audio tracks. ASIO reduces that latency down to 4 or 5 milliseconds which is roughly a buffer setting of 64, making it completely unnoticeable to the player.

If you're not doing live recording and all you're doing is mixing then nobody cares about latency and MME is fine. Switching to MME takes the strain off of your computer from using ASIO at that low buffer setting. The lower the setting the harder your CPU has to work and that's what causes the glitching. My point here is if you're not doing live recording while listening to Biab or RB you don't even need to bother installing the ASIO driver.

I've used lots of sound cards over the years and never found one that would not work with MME because it's universal on a Windows computer. If some say they have had problems with that I can't dispute it because I haven't tried everything out there but I have to doubt it very much. MME is just another version of WDM which is an older version of WASAPI (WAS for short). Regardless, they're all Window's Audio and should work with everything. If it doesn't then it's almost certainly something wrong with the system because somebody decided to tweak something and it messed up the audio.

Bob
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#610903 - 08/16/20 06:38 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME? [Re: goofeyfoot]
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goofeyfoot Offline
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Understood. However I add both audio (via Analogue) and midi via a controller.

Just depends on what I am doing. But I am always adding something.

And interestingly I finally did get ASIO to work by reducing the buffer down to 64.

Thanks.

Michael
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#611349 - 08/19/20 08:00 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME? [Re: goofeyfoot]
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jazzmammal Offline
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Your question got me to remember years ago this subject came up about being able to use ASIO with more than one application at a time. There was something about Steinberg releasing a "multiclient" wrapper that allowed that but it turned out the wrapper caused more problems than it solved so unless that has been fixed you can't use ASIO in both RB and Biab have them both open. There were even issues with some media players as well. If you're recording your midi stuff in RB you probably need to close Biab down or vice versa.

Bob
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#611352 - 08/19/20 08:17 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME? [Re: goofeyfoot]
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Matt Finley Offline
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Bob, I remember this as you do. Steinberg created a multi-device ASIO solution, but I haven’t seen it adapted by device vendors.
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#611413 - 08/20/20 11:45 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Isn’t ASIO preferable to MME? [Re: goofeyfoot]
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etcjoe Offline
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There is a note in the just released RB update that mentions buffers and distortion being fixed.
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