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Hi guys,
I have made a concerted effort to explore the use of BIAB in the last few months . I listen to songs posted by Floyd Jane and I am amazed at what is possible.
I have found that for myself as a novice user, BIAB is very useful for generating a conceptual idea but difficult and time consuming to use.
I have neither the time or inclination to spend the next several years to become an expert on this software or any other software for that matter.
I also have spent a lot of time and money trying to learn to produce songs with my computer based home studio.
The results have been less than stellar.
I have no doubt I will get better at all this but I don't think any of this will replace working live in a studio.
I have also tried to use some musicians both paid and unpaid over the internet. That has been pretty uninspired. Too disconnected, to difficult to communicate ideas other than to score things out and say play this. There have been some very nice people to work with but... A total resistance to using video conferencing to communicate ideas. Pretty unprofessional in some cases even when paying the normal amounts of money a pro studio session musician would make.
I have never had any real issues getting what I wanted in a live studio. Very little of that ever made much money but that was my fault for not being able to produce commercially viable songs.
At the end of the day, in retirement, this was supposed to be a fun hobby. All this diving into the world of home recording was an attempt to reduce the cost of producing a song.
All this software is useful to generate ideas but to get what I want I will have to go back to a studio with real session players. That kind of sucks from a economic standpoint but it is what it is. Better to produce one good song a year than a thousand also ran.
As I am getting to old to enjoy my boat in the ocean any longer, I have been considering leaving Florida and moving back to LA or perhaps even Nashville where I have better access to pro musicians.
I hope this pandemic issue will be resolved soon so I can get out of lockup. As I get older time becomes a more pressing issue. I could have done without all this chaos in my old age...lol
I think BIAB is a great product with many uses for many people including me.
I just don't know how to use it or other software well enough to get the results I want. I am not sure I have the time left to learn even if I wanted too.
What has your experience been?
Cheers,
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment
If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
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Band in a Box is clever, very clever, but you need to make the effort to use it well. There is a manual but I feel from what you wrote that you would not feel like getting all the useful stuff that is in it. The manual is 400+ pages, but put the effort in and you will soon end up with music that you are more than happy with. I think some people think that Band in a Box is some sort of magic software where you press two buttons and out pops a hit song.You get out what you put in, simple as that. I am 65 and have pretty much found my way around the software, producing many songs that have a professional feel with a little extra tweaking in Logic. Stick with it, it really is worth the effort.
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Using BIAB (or in general any computer based music making tools) to make your music is not for everyone. Fact is you need to be part computer nerd and part musician. And yes, BIAB in particular takes a long time to master. What you are saying rings a note with me since I have to admit I am more computer nerd than musician. So this workflow works well for me. There is no one way to make music. If you have a workflow working live, which makes you happy, go for it.
Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
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I like interacting with other people. That is one of the cool things about playing live with a band or in a studio. Exchanging musical ideas on the fly between the other musicians is huge fun.
You look over at the bass player and without saying anything he takes the music in another direction. You understand what he is saying on the bass, you smile and go with him. Cool stuff.
Things can also get out of hand sometimes....lol My lead guitar player use to blow through the changes and zoom off to some place only he understood...lol My job was to bring him back to earth...lol
We had great respect for one another and listened to each other intently. Eyes on who ever is in the lead at a given moment in the song.
For me, music is a team sport.
Cheers,
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment
If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
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So I went over to the Music Forum and listened to your "first offering". It was a good first effort with BIAB. But truly a "first effort". You promised a second version?
Now I suspect you may not have given it enough time to get over some growing pains with the media. You say you are having trouble with the drums. If you stick around a bit longer you will discover that BIAB real drums are great for click and play, but if you need to hear something specific, you need to move over to a different tool. So deeper down the rabbit hole you have to go. Sorry, more cost and more time.
You sound a bit like my friend Lenny. Lenny was a guitarist with 40+ years of bar bands and recording studio. As he aged I introduced him to BIAB. He struggled with it for a while ( a couple years actually). Long enough to get down likely every song he had ever played and more. He was a bit like a fish out of water. But the fact was his bar band days - turned into a church band days, were long ever between age and health. So I think he did learn to appreciate what can be accomplished in a home recording studio with computer aided tools.
I suspect a lot of us here in the forum would have loved to have a more "live" experience with our music making, as you have. If that road is still open for you, and it makes you happy, go for it. But there comes a time when everyone at the local studio is way to young to be in the business and the music recorded there is way too weird to contribute to.
Sorry, I am rambling now... Do what you think is best and have fun doing it.
Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
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Using BIAB (or in general any computer based music making tools) to make your music is not for everyone. Fact is you need to be part computer nerd and part musician. And yes, BIAB in particular takes a long time to master. What you are saying rings a note with me since I have to admit I am more computer nerd than musician. So this workflow works well for me. There is no one way to make music. If you have a workflow working live, which makes you happy, go for it.
I have to agree 100%! BIAB is not easy to use and intuitive but because I love software as much or more than I love music I enjoy it! As for the studio and session musicians, I'm not one who plays well with others IRL so BIAB is a godsend. My advice to anyone trying to use it is get really familiar with the very basics of generating and exporting your instrument tracks from RealTracks and then do the rest of production in a quality DAW. But there again the DAW is another rabbit hole that requires an enjoyment or at least tolerance of complex software!
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Billy, I won't try to give you much advice because our background (except for a love of boats) is likely quite different. I was a pro player as a child and have always been a computer expert. Even so, in a studio I like to be one or the other, not both. I play most horns but BIAB gave me the rhythm section I cannot play. Someday in the nursing home, I will want a laptop, modem, headphones and BIAB. That will be fine.
The only thing that surprised me in your post was that people you would like to collaborate with are reluctant to conference with you on video! That really is a disappointment. I can't see any band going into a studio without working directly together in some way. Those musicians, if they want to adapt to the new normal, should add video skills to what they bring to the table.
Having said that, I rarely need to meet with the talent before I hit the studio. I was probably recommended by their producer or another artist who knows what I do, and the talent generally has no idea what a horn player might add. I prepare heavily, using BIAB to write and arrange parts on their song, and arrive in the studio ready to lay down tracks. Then I am usually requested to play other things they think of, but somehow what gets put on the CDD is only what I prearranged. This is ENTIRELY different from what you describe, where you get the energy and ideas from bandmates. I get that. So, encourage those players to learn to video conference with you. Maybe JamKazam, which has less latency than Zoom, would help. Otherwise, hire someone else.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Thanks Matt,
There are issues with "winging it" in a studio. One, it cost a lot of money and two the engineer is not real happy to set around and listen to you rehearse.
So I agree and generally do the same as you. I am prepared before I walk in the door. I like to do stuff in one take when possible. In the past when it cost two or three K per song time would get your attention real quick...lol
Sometime you get to the studio and someone comes up with a new idea. In that case sometimes it is possible to work it out on the spot. Most of the time you have to go away and come back later.
Frequently guitar music is not as structured as horn lines. We often do not play the exact same thing twice. Yes, signature licks sure but the rest no.
When I have worked with a real pro drummer like Greg Bissonette for example, often he played exactly the right thing the first time around. You don't have to tell guys like that what to do.
The creation process normally happens in stages. Someone comes up with a set of lyrics or a melody line or a harmonic structure. Then who ever came up with the idea call in who ever he needs next to exchange ideas with. The idea person, in our case plays guitar most of the time, and a piano player is a good combination to start. It never works exactly the same way every time.
With the pandemic and the fact that the band members don't all live in the same city or even the same country, video is the only thing that is logical. Of course latency is a issue but there are ways to get around it.
The aversion to video is likely related to being shy or not having the needed self confidence.
I have been away from music for a long while so everything is a bit new to me...even my own guitar.
Thanks for your input.
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment
If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
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Hey John,
I really get that many people just like BIAB. I also think there may be a good many people who prefer to work alone.
I own several DAWs. I find all of them less problematic to deal with than BIAB, with the exception of Pro Tools. Pro Tools is great for tracking live stuff. Not so good for creating new music...just my opinion.
I find many people who are infatuated with computers like being alone with their computers.
For me BIAB, DAWs, and other music software are just tools. I don't like or dislike them. Some are difficult to use and some not so difficult.
I never realized how much I miss working with other people until I started setting here working by my self.
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment
If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
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There are issues with "winging it" in a studio. One, it cost a lot of money and two the engineer is not real happy to set around and listen to you rehearse. Remember that while the clock is running and ticking away your dollars, he works for you and you own him. I hired Bissonnette to play drums once. Unfortunately I got PAUL Bissonnette, the hockey player. The whole session all he did was puck around! <rimshot>
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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Pro Tools is great for tracking live stuff. Not so good for creating new music...just my opinion.
Well, that's an apples to garden hoes comparison anyway, as Pro Tools doesn't "create" anything. If the players are ready to create, Pro Tools is the fo'shizzle. If the players have no idea what they are doing, you aren't ready to be in the studio yet and unless you have Warren Buffet kind of money to waste to get together and just play whatever, don't book the time. If you DO have Warren Buffet kind of money, waste it on me instead of studio time! PM me for my address!! And I WILL take a check!! On topic, BIAB is extremely difficult for a newb. Those overblown claims that you don't have to know anything about music to just sit down and write songs are extreme over-hype. Imagine this conversation. "You just have to enter your chords in." "What's a chord?" It's the notes in the scale of the key you are playing in." "Notes? Scales? Key? Huh?" "You know. A chord. Like a major is 1-3-5." "!, 3 and 5 of what?" "The steps in the scale." "What's a scale?" Then try to explain time signatures. "4/4? For for what?" You see the ridiculousness in that but it makes a point. You can't describe red as "the color of an apple" to a blind person who has never seen an apple. This software is very hard to just sit down with and use it.
Last edited by eddie1261; 09/12/20 10:06 AM.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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FWIW, I had to spend MUCH more time learning Izotope's fx suite, Waves' products and my DAW than I did on BiaB over the last seven years. I came into the home digital thing from from ground zero after years of playing in acoustic bands and knocking around with analogue recording since the 60's. When we decided years after leaving our band to explore some new genres I jumped headfirst into BiaB and Logic Pro. The power and versatility of BiaB is stunning indeed. There are major components of the software that I simply don't have the technical music background to properly explore (but certainly appreciate what folks do with it); hence, I've attempted to become as knowledgeable as possible regarding RealTracks, RealDrums and MidiSuperTracks. Those are my session guys and gals. Sometimes a regen or two gives me what I want. Other times multiple regens of a RT (comped up to a single track in the DAW) are necessary but I always get what I need for the tune. Janice and I find it very cool watching music concerts/documentaries and saying, "Look it’s John Jarvis -- the guy who plays on our songs!"  All meaning that after I came to focus on RT/RD's the learning was fun and easy. Obviously YMMV depending on the goals. Bud PS My comments are predicated upon the notion that a beginner is a, well, beginner to BiaB and not to creating music, i.e., they know a few chords
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Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I came into BIAB with a pretty good understanding of music theory.
Scales, intervals, chords, chord building, modes, arpeggios, diatonic progressions, circle of fifths, Nashville Number System, etc. I'd studied bunches of Mel Bay books, dozens of Homespun courses on different instruments but mainly guitar, learned to read music in standard notation, learned to play enough piano so I could help my son with his piano lessons, graduated from the school of hard knocks by playing with people who were better than me so I had to "step up" my skills and develop my ear and improvisational ability. I'd been writing songs for almost 20 years. I'd also built my own computers for a couple of years before before I first got BIAB.
What I didn't come into BIAB with was a lot of spare time. I had an 8 or 9 year old son that I was definitely wasn't going to sacrifice time with to mess with BIAB, a wife that rightly expected a lot of time and a very demanding job that required a lot more than 40 hours a week. Last of all, I wanted to play my guitar in whatever time I could squeeze out from all of my other duties.
Jumping forward, (I'm rambling), I gave up on BIAB in 2013 after repeated attempts to get them to fix the incorrect notation of bluegrass and acoustic styles as 16th notes instead of 8th notes.
Peter Gannon promised to address it in the next update a couple of months ago. I hope he's able to do so and then I'll upgrade now that I have some free time to mess with it.
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I either start with BiaB and let it guide me, or try to find something in BiaB that works. Starting out with BiaB means I don't struggle to make things match, because I'm starting with a style where the tracks are working well together. Adding BiaB tracks later to an existing backing can be more iffy. I'll typically generating a bunch .wav files to load into my DAW. When a style works, I can usually create something from the best takes. When it doesn't... well, there are other tools other than BiaB. But for a "live" sound (lead guitar, brass, strummed acoustic) it's often the best first choice. That said, if you're willing to pack up and move to Nashville or LA, it doesn't sound like a "hobby" to me. It sounds like you're still in the "pro" game. I'm nowhere near "pro", but that never stopped me from offering advice that's worth less than what you paid for.  Nothing's going to replace what you get from a bunch of pros together is a studio. You've been there and done that, and know what you're missing by not going that route. But as you mentioned, what you heard from people like floyd jane impressed you enough to purchase BiaB. So in theory, you can get much of the way there with the tools you've got. A while back, I was hired to "produce" a number of songs for someone. He'd send me the BiaB tracks and his vocals, and I'd do all the important but tedious stuff in the DAW to make them better: work on the vocals, generate harmonies, replace instruments, add instrument, and adjust the mix. I'd send the results to him, and I'd get an email with describing what he liked, and where I missed the mark. Lather, rinse and repeat. Not the best way to collaborate, and some tracks required a lot of iterations before I got to where he was happy. Part of my job (I thought) was to provide new ideas. For example, I thought one song would work better at a easy tempo, so I slowed down the vocal and completely changed the backing. (BiaB is a great tool for that). He didn't consider it an improvement, but said he'd let his daughter decide. We ended up going with the slower tempo and feel. Since I'm telling the story, of course the example I picked was where he agreed with me. That wasn't always the case, and because it was his song, and he was paying for it, he always had the final say.  Perhaps you can figure out how to offload some of the parts of music creation that don't inspire you, and figure out how to focus on the bits you enjoy - while still getting the "pro" results you heard from others... without moving to Nashville or LA.
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I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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He did have 7 goals and 15 assists in his entire career! I wonder why he is not in the hall of fame  Or was that the hall of shame 
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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He did have 7 goals and 15 assists in his entire career! I wonder why he is not in the hall of fame Or was that the hall of shame How many penalty minutes?
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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Hey Billy,
Looking at your original post of this thread, I feel I'm kinda the opposite of you. I grew up to my teen years in the 1980s and became a complete computer geek. Sure I liked doodling with instruments but never became proficient at a one. Keys are what I've played most over the years. I took a couple of years of music theory at the local community college in the '90s and that really helped my black/white-ones/zeros mindset.
So over the past 10-20 years I've really enjoyed my tools like BIAB and Pro Tools. They do everything I want easily. The difficulty for me is musical talent (creativeness). Once I get some musical ideas, I can go to town on that with no issues at all technically.
Overall, I'm on the far other side of the fence, all technical minded and not enough creative minded. It seems in my experiences that folks are one or the other. I've very rarely encountered someone who is lucky enough to be both.
Good conversations on this thread.
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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Jeezes...I took a nap and you guys typed a lot of stuff.
David...Moving is not just about music...lol
Every year about this time I start thinking about moving some where much cooler with no hurricanes. So moving to back to LA or Nashville is on my mind every year. At the moment the brown LA smog has turned into red disaster. Glad I am here at the moment.
Then I look around at all the "stuff" I have collected up and all the work to load it up and unload it on the other end...by that time it is November and the weather is really super. What we live in south Florida for. Put it off till next year...lol
It looks like there are as many reasons for using BIAB as there are people on this site.
If I never turn it on again, this is still the best forum there is on the internet. That is true because of the people who are here all the time....great group of folks.
This has been a really good thread because I feel like I know a lot more about the people here.
I think my issue is the process. I have an idea, come up with a basic chord progression on guitar or piano, write some lyrics, then go to BIAB and try to make all that fit together. I assume that is not that easy to do for anyone.
Like Bud said, I find it fun to see people who I know of like Brent Mason on TV and know I have access to him on my computer. I don't know what Brent gets for studio time in Nashville but I am sure it is not cheep.
There are two things that have always been problematic for me, drums and vocals. If you like to create music in several styles, you need more than one vocalist. We always joked about the drummer issue in the band. If we ever found one we liked, one of us would need to marry him or her on the spot...lol
As I get older my ability to play guitar gets less and less so I become dependent on others to play what I dream up. I have been very lucky to have super good musicians to play with all my life.
Music has always taken a back seat to other business ventures which gave me the where with all to afford to go mess around in a studio.
All my life it has been four things. Flying airplanes, running boats, making music, working a hundred hours a week to afford all that. At least I have a wonderful wife who puts up with all that.
Cheers,
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment
If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
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Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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