I'm pretty much lost when it comes to drums. I know there is a big one with a pedal and some others that surround the big one. And I know there are cymbals on stands strategically located. Finally, I know some drummers even have a cowbell (Mississippi Queen, you know what I mean!) But I really don't know much about all of these percussive thingies nor when to use them.
So, BIAB RealDrums have been somewhat of a godsend to me. I just choose a style and usually use the suggested drums and they just work. But I am trying to expand my horizons into the land of MIDI drums by finally using Studio Drummer and other kits that came with Kontakt/Komplete I purchased a couple of years ago and never really touched.
My biggest challenge is related to my lack of knowledge about drums in general and MIDI drums in particular. So I would welcome any advice or point me to resources you think would help me. I'll warn you in advance, I don't really want to learn deeply about this topic. I'm admittedly lazy and spoiled after using RealDrums and I'd like to get "serviceable" asap!
As an example of what I am asking, below is my workflow and where I get kinda stuck.
I create new Reaper project set to 130BPM
add virtual instrument track to my Reaper project
assign Kontakt / Studio Drummer / Garage Kit - Full to track
set MIDI to omni (thanks Pipeline!)
set mixer to Indie Rock
click Grooves to open Groove Browser
click Indie Rock folder
click the first subfolder at 130BPM (02 Groove 130BPM) and get the following options,
- 01 4th Hat Closed.mid
- 02 8th Hat Closed.mid
- 03 8th Hat Both.mid
- 04 8th Hat Both.mid
- 05 4th Hat Closed.mid
- 06 8th Hat Closed.mid
- 07 8th Hat Both.mid
- 08 8th Hat Both.mid
- 09 4th Hat Closed Toms.mid
- 10 8th Hat Closed Toms.mid
- 11 8th Hat Both Toms.mid
- 12 8th Hat Both.mid
- 13 4th Ride Side.mid
- 14 4th Ride Perc .mid
- 15 4th Ride Perc.mid
- 16 8th Hat Closed Cym.mid
- 17 8th Hat Both.mid
- 18 4th Hat Closed Toms.mid
- 19 4th Ride Perc.mid
- 20 8th Hat Both.mid
I can drag these onto my track and they play great
I also have a couple of other folders with 130BPM files and I guess I can actually use other BPMs if they sound OK to me
then I notice I have several 130BPM Fills folders with files like this
- 01 Variation.mid
- 02 Variation.mid
- 03 Variation.mid
- 04 Variation.mid
- 05 Variation.mid
I know I can drag these onto my track in Reaper but how do I know which ones to use in which sections of my songs?
I also bought some MIDI from Groove Monkee because they actually have their drums marked as intro, verse, chorus, bridge and outro so that seems like it will make this easier but I'd still like to know what sort of standards should I apply to choose the best drums directly from Studio Drummer?
Also, I kinda get the idea of fills but where do they go? At the end of sections like intro and verse? And do they go in the bar instead of what would have already been there?
Thanks in advance for any tips, guidance, links, etc.
Right foot on the kick drum, playing on beats 1 and 3.
Left hand playing the snare on beats 2 and 4.
Right hand playing the eighth notes on the hi-hat (during a verse) or ride cymbal (during a chorus).
Left foot on the hi-hat opening and closing to give the ride cymbal some variety.
The hi-hat is typically played on the verse, and the cymbal on the chorus.
Of course, there's a lot of variations, but this is the bread and butter drum part.
Should the hi-hat be open or closed? It depends on your song, and the amount of energy you want. A closed hi-hat will be quieter, and and open hi-hat will be louder. In actual use, a drummer will typically open and close the hi-hat during the measure to make the pattern more interesting. There's also "half-open", and they can "splash" the hi-hats together with their foot without having to stick the hats.
When a song moves into a verse or chorus, the drummer will typically hit a crash cymbal with the stick in their right hand on the first beat of the new section.
Fills are typically placed in the measure just before changing to a verse or chorus. They can be a single beat long, or can fill the entire measure. A fill is typically played with the right hand hitting the toms or the snare. A fill replaces what would normally be played at that time.
Simple fills (such as an added hit to the snare or tom) are often added to the fourth bar of an eight bar verse or chorus. It helps remind the listener where they are in the song, and add a bit of variety.
Here's how it fits together with a simple song:
Verse 1 measure 01: Play on the hi-hat throughout Verse measure 02: measure 03: measure 04: Short fill here, signalling halfway through the Verse measure 05: measure 06: measure 07: measure 08: Longer fill here, because the next measure changes from Verse to Chorus Chorus measure 09: Crash on beat 1, switch from hi-hat to ride cymbal throughout Chorus measure 10: measure 11: measure 12: Small fill at end of measure, signalling halfway through the Chorus measure 13: measure 14: measure 15: measure 16: Longer fill at end of measure, because the next measure changes from Verse to Chorus Verse 2 measure 17: Crash on beat 1, switch from ride cymbal to hi-hat throughout Chorus measure 18: measure 19: measure 20: Short fill at end of measure, signalling halfway through the Verse measure 21: measure 22: measure 23: measure 24: Longer fill at end of measure, because the next measure changes from Verse to Chorus Chorus measure 25: Crash on beat 1, switch to from the hi-hat to the ride cymbal throughout Chorus and so on...
Last edited by dcuny; 12/08/2002:54 PM. Reason: Snare on beats 2 and 4.
In order to learn MIDI drums why not save the RealDrum Track as a MIDI Track. Then apply that into a MIDI drum player. It is a way to see roughly how different drum patterns are created. Then play around with them to make the changes you want.
Just a thought.
Tony
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
Right foot on the kick drum, playing on beats 1 and 3.
Left hand playing the snare on beats 3 and 4.
Right hand playing the eighth notes on the hi-hat (during a verse) or ride cymbal (during a chorus).
Left foot on the hi-hat opening and closing to give the ride cymbal some variety.
The hi-hat is typically played on the verse, and the cymbal on the chorus.
Of course, there's a lot of variations, but this is the bread and butter drum part.
Should the hi-hat be open or closed? It depends on your song, and the amount of energy you want. A closed hi-hat will be quieter, and and open hi-hat will be louder. In actual use, a drummer will typically open and close the hi-hat during the measure to make the pattern more interesting. There's also "half-open", and they can "splash" the hi-hats together with their foot without having to stick the hats.
When a song moves into a verse or chorus, the drummer will typically hit a crash cymbal with the stick in their right hand on the first beat of the new section.
Fills are typically placed in the measure just before changing to a verse or chorus. They can be a single beat long, or can fill the entire measure. A fill is typically played with the right hand hitting the toms or the snare. A fill replaces what would normally be played at that time.
Simple fills (such as an added hit to the snare or tom) are often added to the fourth bar of an eight bar verse or chorus. It helps remind the listener where they are in the song, and add a bit of variety.
Here's how it fits together with a simple song:
Verse 1 measure 01: Play on the hi-hat throughout Verse measure 02: measure 03: measure 04: Short fill here, signalling halfway through the Verse measure 05: measure 06: measure 07: measure 08: Longer fill here, because the next measure changes from Verse to Chorus Chorus measure 09: Crash on beat 1, switch from hi-hat to ride cymbal throughout Chorus measure 10: measure 11: measure 12: Small fill at end of measure, signalling halfway through the Chorus measure 13: measure 14: measure 15: measure 16: Longer fill at end of measure, because the next measure changes from Verse to Chorus Verse 2 measure 17: Crash on beat 1, switch from ride cymbal to hi-hat throughout Chorus measure 18: measure 19: measure 20: Short fill at end of measure, signalling halfway through the Verse measure 21: measure 22: measure 23: measure 24: Longer fill at end of measure, because the next measure changes from Verse to Chorus Chorus measure 25: Crash on beat 1, switch to from the hi-hat to the ride cymbal throughout Chorus and so on...
WOW! David, thank you so much for this! I feel like I actually learned a bit tonight. Can't wait to try it with the MIDI drums. I truly appreciate this!!!
In order to learn MIDI drums why not save the RealDrum Track as a MIDI Track. Then apply that into a MIDI drum player. It is a way to see roughly how different drum patterns are created. Then play around with them to make the changes you want.
In order to learn MIDI drums why not save the RealDrum Track as a MIDI Track. Then apply that into a MIDI drum player. It is a way to see roughly how different drum patterns are created. Then play around with them to make the changes you want.
Just a thought.
Tony
Tony beat me in answering as I would. I would also create a song(s) using your GrooveMonkee drum patterns, there you will see the changes between verses and choruses as well as those small and sometimes subtle fills in verses and choruses. It might be easier in GrooveMonkee as the intros, verses, etc are already labeled.
Using MIDI drums is much easier then other MIDI instruments. All you have to worry about is velocity and volume. There are other MIDI controls you can use in drums but for the most part those are for advanced sound control, something most all of us don't need.
Good luck.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
In order to learn MIDI drums why not save the RealDrum Track as a MIDI Track. Then apply that into a MIDI drum player. It is a way to see roughly how different drum patterns are created. Then play around with them to make the changes you want.
Just a thought.
Tony
Tony beat me in answering as I would. I would also create a song(s) using your GrooveMonkee drum patterns, there you will see the changes between verses and choruses as well as those small and sometimes subtle fills in verses and choruses. It might be easier in GrooveMonkee as the intros, verses, etc are already labeled.
Using MIDI drums is much easier then other MIDI instruments. All you have to worry about is velocity and volume. There are other MIDI controls you can use in drums but for the most part those are for advanced sound control, something most all of us don't need.
Save up for EZ drummer, and after you are addicted to it, buy Groove Monkee midi drums to supplement the habit. Do NOT quantize those tracks after you pay for them.
Take it from someone who chased midi drums for a good 15 years.
Save up for EZ drummer, and after you are addicted to it, buy Groove Monkee midi drums to supplement the habit. Do NOT quantize those tracks after you pay for them.
Take it from someone who chased midi drums for a good 15 years.
Thanks! I own and like their keys but kinda hate to get on their merry-go-round of buying the base program and then having to buy a bunch of overpriced add-ons to get different drum styles.
You get a lot of drum kits and you can make your own kits.
On the plus side the all of the kits sound great. You also get a lot of different sounds like ride bells, hitting a cymbal at its edge, center and bell, etc. GrooveMonkee's MIDI loops will work with no problems.
On the down side the kits are not GM, so you will have to convert BiaB drums to the SSD-5 format. What I do is to put each BiaB drum on a separate track with GM drum mapping, place SSD-5 on that track, and find the same drum/cymbal. It doesn't take that long and the resulting drums sounds are well worth the effort IMHO. YMMV
PS - right now SD-5 is on sale for $59 USD. That is a lot less then what I paid for it a few years ago.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Thanks so much for this Dave! I just started to test out MT Power drums. So your short essay on drumming is very timely. I did not know that Real drums could be exported as MIDI tracks. So many fun things to learn.
Great topic. I also have chased drums for a good number of years. For me EXDrummer 2 has always eluded me in terms of getting what I wanted. Too many bits and pieces to start with, and that thing JJJ referred to about buying more and more drum EZX and midi just don't work for me. Then I found Jamstix and its workflow and AI just seemed to work better for me. Worth checking out, it has a free demo you can try.
Then I found Jamstix and its workflow and AI just seemed to work better for me. Worth checking out, it has a free demo you can try.
Still a fan of JamStix?
They've got their annual sale going on, with the full version and all the paks for $120. After years of being on the fence, I just might buy it this year. I'm this close to pulling the trigger.
Then I found Jamstix and its workflow and AI just seemed to work better for me. Worth checking out, it has a free demo you can try.
Still a fan of JamStix?
They've got their annual sale going on, with the full version and all the paks for $120. After years of being on the fence, I just might buy it this year. I'm this close to pulling the trigger.
I'm interested as I love the idea of buying a complete set! You said all the paks included but I see 14 on their addon page and only 6 shown on the product comparison. What am I missing?
I'm interested as I love the idea of buying a complete set! You said all the paks included but I see 14 on their addon page and only 6 shown on the product comparison. What am I missing?
There are 9 "MiniPaks".
Confusingly, it's not obvious from the Online Shop page that the "Jamstix 4XL" (and most other upgraded versions) contain the "XL Pak" until you look at the Compare Versions chart.
In any event, "Jamstix 4 Ultimate" appears to contain everything.
To my ear, the kits don't sound that great in comparison to... well, just about any other drum kit on the market. But they're inexpensive!
And there are no roto-toms in the sound libraries, so if you liked the sounds of those toms on the JamStix demo, you'll need find your own roto-tom library, as it's not included. Rayzoon suggests this free library: RoyoToms
And there are no roto-toms in the sound libraries, so if you liked the sounds of those toms on the JamStix demo, you'll need find your own roto-tom library, as it's not included. Rayzoon suggests this free library: RoyoToms
These are in my current project and I love them. I will upload ~ 16 bars of the drum track so you can hear them. I think they are really lovely. I will come back in a and add a link.
And yes, I am still a fan of Jamstix.
Sorry, computer issues and I can't record a rendering of the audio. Stay tuned I will fix this tomorrow.
I decided that I'd finally bite the bullet and purchasing JamStix this evening.
I was typing my credit card number on the PayPal screen when I was struck with a feeling that I was about to do something I'd regret - more so than the usual buyer's remorse.
So halfway into entering in my address information, I thought I'd do a quick check through my email.
Ooops!
I actually purchased it late Sunday night, but was still waiting for the code from Rayzoon. (It can take up to 24 hours for them to send the code after purchase).
But Monday was super-hectic at work, and then I spent the rest of the day in the ER with a family member. So it completely slipped my mind.
It's downloading right now, so I'm looking forward to playing with it whenever Real Life gives me a chance!
David, do you also have EZ Drummer? I am quite impressed with EZ Keys but as I mentioned I am annoyed that buying the addons is an endless money sink and I am reluctant to add another addiction. But, although I liked the idea of the JamStix Everything Ultra Plus PAK, I was unimpressed by their website and you mentioned something about the drum sounds not being as good as others. So, after you mess around with it I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. The value. Quality of sounds. Ease of use. Etc. Thanks!!
Is there a specific genre of music you typically do, or predominately are shooting for? That makes a difference on multiple fronts.
I personally love rototoms, but I wouldn't go into this thinking a ton of songs use them. I guess another way of saying that is, by far, most songs don't have rototoms. Just thought you should know, so don't get hung up by that.
You might want to watch a complete starter drum video on youtube. Pick like a 10 minute one that walks through what the parts of the drum set are. It might make you feel a bit more confident. Don't spend a bunch of time here. I know you well enough to know you'll pick up on it really fast.
I would also recommend, rather than studying BIAB drum styles (which are not custom to a specific song), buy a few midi's from a place like karaoke-version(.com)[I have no affiliation with them] and study things like how the drums work with the bass. Especially the bass and kick drum (the one that uses a foot pedal). Those fills will be specific to what's goin on in that specific song. It gives you an idea of the how the puzzles fits You will also see see things like where the hi-hat is when. When the ride cymbal comes in. How to accent on a cymbal. There are other professional midi sites as well. I just wouldn't go for the free midi stuff. It's usually poorly programmed; so you would be learning how someone else did it wrong.
Hope it helps.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
David, do you also have EZ Drummer? I am quite impressed with EZ Keys but as I mentioned I am annoyed that buying the addons is an endless money sink and I am reluctant to add another addiction. But, although I liked the idea of the JamStix Everything Ultra Plus PAK, I was unimpressed by their website and you mentioned something about the drum sounds not being as good as others. So, after you mess around with it I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. The value. Quality of sounds. Ease of use. Etc. Thanks!!
Yes, I've got EZ Drummer 2, and a bunch of EZX. So I'm not lacking in drumkits.
I rather like EZ Drummer, and have built a number of songs starting with the drum tracks. I wish that they EZXs came with a lot more MIDI, but there's some inspiring stuff in there.
I also like the ability to modify MIDI within EZD by spinning knobs to increase/decrease the number of hits a piece of kit gets during a bar. That's a pretty intuitive process for me.
The big decision was whether it would made more sense to buy JamStix, or just get a bunch of MIDI files and stick with EXD. I went with JamStix mainly because I'd put it off for so long, and this year I could actually afford it.
But I'm not yet sure it's the right choice.
With EZD, I find I do the same sort of thing that I do in BiaB - I go searching through the various styles until I find something inspiring, and then refine that.
With JamStix, it feels like I'm trying to turn fairly vanilla patterns into something more interesting. And most of the patterns are - for me - much less interesting than the ones I find in EZD.
Keep in mind I'm working backwards - I'm looking for the drum to inspire musical ideas, not fit a drum track to a song. So it's probably a bad use case for JamStix.
JamStix also seems to be more focused on straight-up rock songs, which is also less what I'm looking for.
What finally convinced me to go with JaxStix was the Neo 60 drummer - it didn't have the same generic lock-step kick and snare sound.
As for the various JamStix drumkits, I'd say that they sound more "live" and much less processed than EZD kits. The quality is less disappointing than I initially thought, and I don't think I'd have any issues adding the drums to my tracks - especially after a bit of post-processing with Neutron or EZ Mix.
At this point, it's just too early for me to form a fair opinion about JamStix. I really need to use the software as it was intended before complaining too much. I'd like to figure out how to give it a more loose feel - it's much to mechanical - and a more relaxed style, as it tends to machine-gun through the tom fills.
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