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Songwriting
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A song is an entity. It's a bit like a marriage in that way. Doubt it?
Listen to an instrumental version of "Yesterday" and tell me it's not an instrumental version of A SONG. The song is "Yesterday". Arrange it differently, reharmonize it, slow it down, speed it up, embellish the melody--it remains "Yesterday".
In addition, print the lyric out, and it is the LYRIC of "Yesterday".
It isn't the lyric, and it isn't the tune that wholly makes the song "Yesterday". It simply IS "Yesterday". And that song is what is protected under copyright, such as it is.
And a follow on from this is, that has been discussed before on the forums is the misconception that though chords can't be copyrighted, if you create a fake version of the song and call it Yesterday with the unique chords to that song included (but no melody) then if it was to go to court you could well loose the copyright infringement case.
Last edited by musiclover; 11/14/20 07:37 AM.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 263
Apprentice
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Apprentice
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I'm opposed to any form of plagiarism.
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.
Vintage
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Songwriting
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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A song is an entity. It's a bit like a marriage in that way. Doubt it?
Listen to an instrumental version of "Yesterday" and tell me it's not an instrumental version of A SONG. The song is "Yesterday". Arrange it differently, reharmonize it, slow it down, speed it up, embellish the melody--it remains "Yesterday".
In addition, print the lyric out, and it is the LYRIC of "Yesterday".
It isn't the lyric, and it isn't the tune that wholly makes the song "Yesterday". It simply IS "Yesterday". And that song is what is protected under copyright, such as it is.
And a follow on from this is, that has been discussed before on the forums is the misconception that though chords can't be copyrighted, if you create a fake version of the song and call it Yesterday with the unique chords to that song included (but no melody) then if it was to go to court you could well loose the copyright infringement case. Which is why the chord only versions in say a Norton Fake Book collection is named "Yesterday, et. al." Which essentially says these are the chords that are found in that song and others. Since we all know chord progressions are used over and over and over in all different songs. The melody and then the lyrics make it the song we recognize as Yesterday. Same as online Jazz instruction, when they rename a standard, yet it is still the same chord progression, then improvise over it without angering the take down gods.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
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Songwriting
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Joe read this thread which appeared on the forum some time ago, especially the eighth post down and see what you make of that. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=591161&page=3Just because someone includes a well known song in a fake disk, without a melody (because they assume that under no circumstances are chords copyrightable) does not mean this always is the case.
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Songwriting
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I'm opposed to any form of plagiarism.
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.
Vintage
Yep The town I love so well, has a great melody to it, maybe if we write a different lyric to it, we could well have a hit on our hands. 
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OP
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Well having read replies and thinking this over, I have changed my mind completely, Lyrics are nothing more than random words thrown together for a rhyme and should never be allowed copyrights!!!. Ha, just joking folks. Yeah, I still think that while yesterday, being used as an example, has it's own flavor, as a tune it would not be copied as is, to make a song, it would never sell, yesterday is too well known, and any song that is so well known would not be something anyone could reproduce exactly in the original tune and sell to the public. So that alone would keep it's autonomy. But, my suggestion still stands.
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So who gets to adjudicate which music is "well known" enough to remain immune to being copied? And what about a piece of music that is not "well known" but it clearly unique and different than anything else? See the problem with what you're suggesting? There's no practical way to do it, and I can assure you that there would be 0.0% support for something like this in the music industry, songwriting community, or the Federal government.
Kudos to sticking to your guns on your suggestion, it just happens to be one that has no basis in law and would never happen in a real world scenario.
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1:Kudos to sticking to your guns on your suggestion, 2:it just happens to be one that has no basis in law and would never happen in a real world scenario. 1:Yes, and 2: (hopefully) Yes.
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Joe read this thread which appeared on the forum some time ago, especially the eighth post down and see what you make of that. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=591161&page=3Just because someone includes a well known song in a fake disk, without a melody (because they assume that under no circumstances are chords copyrightable) does not mean this always is the case. I think the recent stairway to heaven case is a good example. That chord progression, even the way it was played in that song, has been used numerous times. One could say Led Zep stole it from My Funny Valentine, or any number of other standards that have the exact same progression. The plaintiff in this case said they stole it from them because it sounded like their song. They ended up losing. Rhythm Changes (I Got Rhythm). I could list thousands of examples. Without the melody they are just chord progressions. How many songs have II V I, or I vi ii V progressions? There is a great comedy act band that plays the same progression over and over and sings the different songs that used it. It is funny and true. I agree there could be a case where a chord progression is so unique, never been used before, that the song is instantly knowable without a melody or lyric, but I just can't think of any right off. Doesn't matter too much to me anyway as I have said before nobody is clamoring to steal anything of mine!
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
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Who gets to decide?
A jury of your peers, after being persuaded by the judge and attorneys.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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To be clear:
There is a colossal difference between a chord progression and a melodic passage.
I can use the C-Am-F-G all day long in writing and not be infringing. On the other hand, if (over the same chord progression) I write a song with the same melody as Buddy Holly's "Everyday", I could (and should) get my butt sued.
Courts have erred, in the opinion of many, in applying too broad of an infringement brushstroke over chord progressions and "feels". Several such cases are under appeal and will probably be overturned (if common sense prevails).
Just a point of clarification to hopefully make apples to apples comparisons and conversations.
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Songwriting
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To be clear:
Courts have erred, in the opinion of many, in applying too broad of an infringement brushstroke over chord progressions and "feels". Several such cases are under appeal and will probably be overturned (if common sense prevails). This.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
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I looked into the history a bit. One reason we see royalty getting in on it was because the Kings were the authorities. What was happening in the early days of printing was people would go to great expense to publish a book only to have copycats produce the same thing and pirate it for cheaper. It reached a point where investors were no longer interested. So, really, the original European copyrights were to protect the businessmen and assure a supply of books. The King used his authority for the benefit of the nation.
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There is a reason that the laws are written the way they are. It would be impractical to copyright chord progressions. Melodies are unique. With chord progressions there are often many many songs that utilize the exact same chord progression.
As far as legal copywrite protection goes...I like what my old music biz professor said, 'court is not fun".
It is arrogant to think you need to legally copywrite.
No way will it ever come into play unless you are very well known.
And even then...it is still often NOT worth doing because of the legal costs.
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Yeah, I know I am going to stir the pot here again. I am a believer that song lyrics should be copyrighted, but, I dont think melodies should be. Take tunes out of the copyright equation and we would have real original music all over the place again on radio. Just my 2 bits and I am sure I am in the minority here. Cliff The Copyright Office of the Library of Congress and Title 17 of the US Code do not agree with you. Why would the melody be less copyrightable than the lyrics?
I think that musically, the melody is even more important than the lyrics. You are entitled to your opinion but you are quite wrong on this. See my previous paragraph. In February, I may have more to say about this for reasons that will be clear if I decide to weigh in again. I might even explain my last statement. It's still January, however.
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