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#632067 - 12/23/20 10:00 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 16173
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Of course it is worth the money. It is free when you purchase BiaB!
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64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB and RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software and some hardware.

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#632090 - 12/23/20 12:03 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Rob Helms]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6568
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rob Helms
Charlie, I have a question regarding frozen tracks, are not all tracks in RB actually “Frozen” since they don’t regenerate unless you specifically want to?

That's correct but that's not the frozen tracks of BIAB.

When a BIAB file is saved with frozen tracks and subsequently opened in RB, RB doesn't import the BIAB frozen tracks but generates a new version of that instrument. Obviously those frozen BIAB tracks can be saved and imported but unless one knows to do that, they get a new variation of the BIAB song project rather than an exact copy.

So to answer Bob's question why someone would return back to BIAB after moving their project to RB for further processing, not knowing that RB doesn't work with BIAB Multi Styles or BIAB frozen tracks would prompt at trip back to BIAB to correct those situations.
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BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2021:RB 2021, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.

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#632103 - 12/23/20 01:11 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
Bob Calver Online   content
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Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
thanks Charlie - i understand - i think. most of the stuff i record is simple so multistyles don't really come into the picture. every time i've changed styles in BIAB at a particular bar during the song, the change has carried over to RB and that has been the sum total of my need for changes in BIAB.

and if i don't like part of a RealTrack i just regenerate that bit in RB. i never bother to freeze BIAB tracks because once i'm in RB i can do anything i like by regenerating and then saving as a seq file. or even gfenerate an alternative track and cut and paste whole sections. i know also that fx settings are not supposed to travel across to RB from BIAB but i edit them with the mixer in RB.

i used to use PowerTracks in the days of midi only and just made a midi file from BIAB that i opened in PT. no problems of regeneration there. but i still stick to the work flow i'm used to.

i realize i'm not exploiting the full capability of BIAB but the new RealTracks are my main reason for upgrading not the extra capabilities like utility tracks.

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#632110 - 12/23/20 01:29 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
Bob Calver Online   content
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Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
just a query charlie - once you've gone back to BIAB to 'get it right' where do you go from there? surely not back to RB? won't the same problem arise?

or is it that people go to RB, realize they shouldn't have done, go back to BIAB with the extra tracks they've generated in RB (which you can only do now with the new utility tracks when you save your RB file as an sgu or mgu but presumably you can do that now without leaving BIAB anyway) and then to a DAW like Reaper?

RB seems a redundant step in the situation you describe. and if you've opened an mgu or sgu in RB to find it doesn't work the way you want why not go back to the original BIAB file you opened in RB?

i can't see anyone making the same 'mistake' of going to RB twice so an 'escape route' of saving to utility tracks seems unnecessary. in the situations you describe the obvious workflow is BIAB to DAW and maybe then use the BIAB plugin. or am i missing something else?.

merry christmas everybody!


Edited by Bob Calver (12/23/20 01:41 PM)

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#632116 - 12/23/20 02:46 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 20703
Loc: Mi., USA
rharv Offline
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Bob,
I think the difference is you and I move to RB before trying to get any 'final tracks' in BiaB.
Not everybody works like that.

I use BiaB to get the chords, possible style and song structure.
Then open in RB (like you) and get my final tracks there, where we have more control.

I have never tried to finish a song in Biab, and doubt I could at my current skill level with it.

That said, moving to RB and opening a nearly finished SGU file and seeing it regenerate it all would happen one time here.
Knowing to export it after that, or drag/drop, would be learned real quick-like.
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#632120 - 12/23/20 02:59 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6568
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Posts: 6568
Loc: South Carolina
<< just a query charlie - once you've gone back to BIAB to 'get it right' where do you go from there? surely not back to RB? won't the same problem arise? >>

Actually moving projects is quick from BIAB to RB, so that's what you would do. Once you've opened a project in RB and found your frozen BIAB tracks did not transfer over, from that point on you normally compensate and export saved tracks to import into RB thereafter. The first time is a real letdown though but it's an easy task to return to BIAB and export the frozen tracks.

RealBand is not meant to replace BIAB nor is BIAB meant to replace RealBand. They both have their unique features and together although they are two different programs, they are one powerful tool. That being said, I'm of the opinion that some users aren't totally familiar with BIAB features that allow tracks to be more unique, complex, fuller and dynamic before they are moved over to a DAW and many things they are doing manually in their DAW, BIAB can do quickly, professionally and automatically saving them a lot of time and editing.

Going back to BIAB to correct issues or change a track to match within a project that's moved over to RB or another DAW is likely not that unusual. In my case, many times i've left a project for a few days and when I get back to it, the song doesn't sound nearly as full or exciting as I perceived it when I stopped work on it. Fresh ears do wonders showing warts that have been overlooked. wink
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BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2021:RB 2021, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.

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#632122 - 12/23/20 03:02 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6568
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Loc: South Carolina
<< That said, moving to RB and opening a nearly finished SGU file and seeing it regenerate it all would happen one time here.
Knowing to export it after that, or drag/drop, would be learned real quick-like. >>

Lol, there you go.
_________________________
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2021:RB 2021, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.

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#632154 - 12/23/20 06:27 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7774
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bob Calver
maybe someone can explain why after taking a BIAB song into RB with all the extra flexibility, extra tracks, all the regeneration possibilities - midi, midi supertracks and RTs, and easier editing without complicated workarounds RB offers , you might want to take it back into BIAB?
To share with a Band-in-a-Box for Mac user perhaps?
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Jim Fogle - 2021 BiaB (842) RB (Build 8) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H1, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#632185 - 12/24/20 12:39 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
Bob Calver Online   content
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Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
no one size fits all! glad to hear BIAB and RB are working for everyone regardless of your workflow patterns.

my musical horizons are set by years of playing live with small folk groups or electric bands and to a large extent that's what i get with BIAB and RB with the opportunity to get the band members to play their part again if i don't like it.

as rharv says if you're used to finishing in RB - and those of us brought up on PowerTracks probably are - we know our way round that program much better than we do BIAB.

i'm looking forward to upgrading but will probably leave it to the last minute as patches are still coming through

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#632241 - 12/24/20 08:17 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 12/19/20
Posts: 3
Loc: United Kingdom
grandad_paul Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/19/20
Posts: 3
Loc: United Kingdom
One thing I noticed with RealBand 64-bit 2021, is that the audio effects (compressor, distortion etc.) still only work for 16-bit tracks.

That's a bit disappointing when BIAB is now 24-bits internally, as we have to sample and edit at 16-bits in RealBand 2021.1


Hopefully, a future update can fix that. To be fair, as a retired developer myself, its a bit awkward to have duplicate effects for 16/24; some users will want to use 16 and some 24. Perhaps they decided to leave that thorny issue until after the Xmas rush.

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#632247 - 12/24/20 09:28 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
Bob Calver Online   content
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Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
which audio effects are you referring to? 32 bit plugins won't work with a 64 bit host unless you use jbridge. i'm not sure what effects you mean - i thought the pgmusic built in fx had been upgraded to 64 bit.

maybe someone cleverer than me can say whether the bit depth of the audio affects the plugins that work. i thought it was the 32 or 64 bit nature of the host application.

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#632282 - 12/24/20 12:27 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: grandad_paul]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 16173
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 16173
Loc: Hamlin NY
Can't you use third party VST plugins?
_________________________
The irony for mankind is that a computer program asks a human to prove that they're not a robot!

64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB and RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software and some hardware.

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#632337 - 12/24/20 05:01 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 12/19/20
Posts: 3
Loc: United Kingdom
grandad_paul Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/19/20
Posts: 3
Loc: United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Bob Calver
which audio effects are you referring to?


Bob,
I'm referring to the built in effects in RealBand, under the Edit | Audio Effects menu:

Compressor
Gate
.......
.......
Hum Filter

With a 24-bit track the Audio Effects pop up a message saying they only work for 16-bit tracks.

I might be doing something wrong, but the only solution I could find was switching back to 16-bit tracks.

Having sampled an acoustic guitar or vocal at 24-bit, a bit of compression will help....then you hit your head on the 16-bit wall!

-Paul

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#632369 - 12/25/20 05:04 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
Bob Calver Online   content
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Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
if you press the fx button on the track can you use the plugins that come up? are you using the edit menu and choosing audio effects?

i would have thought the plugins that come up with the fx button should work. please try it and if they don't it's a bug that needs fixing

3rd party plugins should still work.

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#632464 - 12/25/20 07:04 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7774
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Posts: 7774
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
saxgentleman67,

Assuming money is pretty tight, I would select the program update package for $49 US. That gets you the latest 32 and 64 bit Band-in-a-Box and RealBand programs, all the 32 and 64 bit varieties of the DAW plug-in and updates until the next (2022?) product release. I would also order a hard copy Band-in-a-Box user manual (about $15 US).

This will allow you to concentrate on learning all the program changes made since 2016, take advantage of the pitch, timing and harmony advances while using your existing content. Even without the additional content you will be busy learning for a long time.

As you learn to use what you purchased in 2021, save a little each month so you can purchase the UltraPAK next release at the 2021 to next release upgrade price.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2021 BiaB (842) RB (Build 8) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H1, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#632592 - 12/26/20 12:43 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Pat Marr]
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 262
Loc: Lowell, MA
Funkifized Offline
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Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 262
Loc: Lowell, MA
Originally Posted By: Pat Marr
If you already have BIAB 2020, just get the PlusPak for $99

It comes with the new version of BIAB and RB, plus ONLY the new real tracks and styles. Plus some bonus styles.



Some of the more expensive packages include ALL of the previous styles and realtracks... but if you already have them, why pay more to buy them again?



I agree that I don't want to pay for all the RealTracks that I have already. However, I'm on BIAB 2019. Would I still be looking at the PlusPak?
_________________________
Band-In-A-Box for Windows
Version 2021 (844)
64 bit application
RealBand 2021 (8)
Windows 10 Pro
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4800MQ CPU @ 2.70GHz
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#632642 - 12/26/20 06:23 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Funkifized]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7774
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7774
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Originally Posted By: Funkifized
Originally Posted By: Pat Marr
If you already have BIAB 2020, just get the PlusPak for $99

It comes with the new version of BIAB and RB, plus ONLY the new real tracks and styles. Plus some bonus styles.



Some of the more expensive packages include ALL of the previous styles and realtracks... but if you already have them, why pay more to buy them again?



I agree that I don't want to pay for all the RealTracks that I have already. However, I'm on BIAB 2019. Would I still be looking at the PlusPak?
No. The PlusPAK only adds 2021 content. You have 2019 so if you purchased the PlusPAK you would be lacking content added in 2020.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2021 BiaB (842) RB (Build 8) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H1, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#632654 - 12/26/20 07:34 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 262
Loc: Lowell, MA
Funkifized Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 262
Loc: Lowell, MA
So, that clearly begs the question: what's the workflow that one should use to avoid going back and forth between BIAB and RB? How does one make up for the fact that RB doesn't do anything with Multistyles and won't import frozen tracks?
_________________________
Band-In-A-Box for Windows
Version 2021 (844)
64 bit application
RealBand 2021 (8)
Windows 10 Pro
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4800MQ CPU @ 2.70GHz
16.0 GB (15.4 GB usable)

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#633161 - 12/29/20 10:00 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7774
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7774
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Band-in-a-Box and RealBand are companion products, they each are capable of things the other is not. The easiest way to account for those differences is to do what you can first in Band-in-a-Box, render the tracks to waves, then move both the SGU file and rendered waves to RealBand.

Maybe I'm wrong but I've always believed the main benefit of importing a SGU file to RealBand is you have access to the chord sheet to (1) see where your at in the song and (2) in case you want to generate additional tracks.

It looks like the second reason may not apply with multistyles.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2021 BiaB (842) RB (Build 8) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H1, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#633202 - 12/29/20 01:38 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
Bob Calver Online   content
Expert

Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1400
Loc: UK
just thinking out loud but what happens if...........

you freeze tracks in BIAB
open the file in RB - tempo and bars should match
delete all the regenerated tracks (which would leave the chord sheet and part markers i think!)
re-open BIAB and select DAW mode and drag and drop the frozen tracks (and multi style changes) into the RB song...........

would that work? you'd still have to add reverb etc to the tracks in RB but would that be a simple workaround?

can't see any need to go back to BIAB if it works

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It's actually pretty simple - basically, if you select this option while you're installing the program, files with the extensions .SGU, .MGU, and other Band-in-a-Box files will open directly in the program if you select them from outside the program.

Missed this option during your setup, but you'd like to apply it now? Go to File | File Utilities | Associate File types with Explorer within the program.

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October 1, 2021 is National Kids Music Day!

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