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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Hey folks,
I am experiencing a problem on my iMac Pro (2017), but I am not sure if it is Big Sur-related:
When using BIAB with playback over the iMac speakers, the chord display is quite delayed. I can hear the chord properly in time, but the window maybe takes 250ms until the current bar is visually selected (black background).
Is there a setting to fix this? (Like in some video player apps, where you can change the delay for the audio track to make it sync up with the video)
Since I am using BIAB as a backing track while practising , this is essential for me! Depending on song tempo, this issue gets really problematic.
Thanks in advance and best regards!
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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bolandross,
Welcome to the forum and to Band-in-a-Box. I use Windows so I'm likely not much help. Have you looked at your computer's Apple Audio Core settings? Select Options > CoreMIDI Audio MIDISetup then select the Output button.
Also, it may prove helpful to other forum Mac users if you provide some details about your iMac hardware and software configuration. I'm sure someone will be along shortly.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Hey Jim,
thank you very much for your response!
I checked the Audio-MIDI-Setup but there is only one setting that I can change there, which is the sample rate. Currently it is set to 48 kHz, so I tried lower and higher alternatives. Unfortunately, it didn't change the problem.
As for my system, these are the specs:
3,2 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon W
32 GB 2666 MHz DDR4
Radeon Pro Vega 64 16 GB
macOS Big Sur (11.1)
Best regards
Boland
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Hi Boland, can you check if you have anything like SoundFlower, Audio Hijack, or Loopback installed on your Mac? Programs like that can cause latency issues like this.
I work here
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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@bolandross
I've had the situation you describe since I first installed BIAB, two years ago so... not Big Sur related (at least not on my case).
At the time I searched the forums but couldn't find any reference to it so I've assumed it was either something to do with my setup or some eventual UI laziness bug that would be corrected in a future patch.
Despite all the struggling with my setup I couldn't find a fix for it (and I don't have SoundFlower, Audio Hijack, Loopback or any other similar software installed on my Mac).
Meanwhile, two years have passed and I've just learned to live with it but... it would still be nice to have it fixed.
Mac mini (Late 2014)
CPU: 3 GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7
GPU: Intel Iris 1536 MB
RAM: 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Hello Simon,
thanks for your message.
I am indeed using Audio Hijack, but not in conjunction with BIAB.
For troubleshooting, I uninstalled the ACE driver and the Audio Hijack App, but it didn't make any difference.
Is there anything else I can do?
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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@bolandross
I've had the situation you describe since I first installed BIAB, two years ago so... not Big Sur related (at least not on my case).
At the time I searched the forums but couldn't find any reference to it so I've assumed it was either something to do with my setup or some eventual UI laziness bug that would be corrected in a future patch.
Despite all the struggling with my setup I couldn't find a fix for it (and I don't have SoundFlower, Audio Hijack, Loopback or any other similar software installed on my Mac).
Meanwhile, two years have passed and I've just learned to live with it but... it would still be nice to have it fixed.
Mac mini (Late 2014)
CPU: 3 GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7
GPU: Intel Iris 1536 MB
RAM: 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 @PLS Thanks for posting your experiences and I am sorry to read about your problem. Is it the same issue when using headphones connected to the rear jack? I noticed that in other audio applications, connecting a wired headphone reduced the minimum buffer size of the iMac internal audio device. Using the speaker somehow increases it. But, BIAB should in both cases be able to calculate the total resulting audio latency and then delay the display by that amount, so audio and video are in sync.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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@bolandross
I can confirm that, in my case, connecting a wired microphone doesn't reduce the delay (at least not in a noticeable way).
I don't really feel it as a problem (not anymore). When using BIAB as a play along companion I just focus on the audio queues (rhythmics) instead of relying on the visual ones.
Still it would be nice to have them matching as they're supposed to.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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It's really frustrating.
The whole user interface reacts very delayed to user inputs. If I click somewhere, it takes half a second to register. It might be the same delay that I am encountering when waiting for the correct bar to be selected visually. Things shouldn't be this way on a machine with these specs.
I could live with the pink visual artefacts that people (including me) are getting on Big Sur, but this sluggish UI is a real deal breaker for me. Using the software currently is not a joy anymore and it feels like a relief to close the program and use something else instead.
PG Support once told me the Big Sur update would be there by the end of December 2020. Nothing has happened since then.
I don't want to buy an old Mac just to be able to use BIAB properly again.
Last edited by bolandross; 01/12/21 01:00 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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PG Music Staff
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@bolandross
I've had the situation you describe since I first installed BIAB, two years ago so... not Big Sur related (at least not on my case).
At the time I searched the forums but couldn't find any reference to it so I've assumed it was either something to do with my setup or some eventual UI laziness bug that would be corrected in a future patch.
Despite all the struggling with my setup I couldn't find a fix for it (and I don't have SoundFlower, Audio Hijack, Loopback or any other similar software installed on my Mac).
Meanwhile, two years have passed and I've just learned to live with it but... it would still be nice to have it fixed.
Mac mini (Late 2014)
CPU: 3 GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7
GPU: Intel Iris 1536 MB
RAM: 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 I'm not sure that this is the same problem that the OP is experiencing. - When you play a song, is the chord highlighting EARLY or LATE? - What Band-in-a-Box version and build are you running? - What OS do you have? - How do you have you speakers connected to your Mac?
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Hi Andrew,
Thank you for stepping in. Maybe it's not the same problem since I don't have the input lag described in bolandross' last post.
As for your questions:
- When you play a song, is the chord highlighting EARLY or LATE?
Late
- What Band-in-a-Box version and build are you running?
Version 2019. Build 324
- What OS do you have?
MacOS Big Sur 11.1
- How do you have you speakers connected to your Mac?
Mac to Onkyo AV Receiver TX-RZ1100 via HDMI 2.1
Regarding the last question it may be relevant to note that the delay also occurs if using headphones connected directly to the Mac's output.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Maybe it is the same problem then. You had this problem on an earlier OS as well though, correct?
Could you test this at factory settings by putting the file safemode.txt in the Band-in-a-Box | Preferences folder and rebooting the program? Also, does it make a difference if you are viewing full-screen chordsheet mode (ctrl+T)?
If you click the Plugins button | Default synth, what is selected in the top slot of this dialog? Apple DLS Music Device?
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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I really can't tell if it is the same situation bolandross is having. From my many issues with BIAB's UI, it being sluggish is not one of them.
I confirm that I've been having this situation since I first installed BIAB (2018) and through out all MacOS releases since then.
Alternating to full-screen chordsheet mode doesn't make a difference.
Default synth is indeed Apple DLS Music Device.
In order to test it at factory settings I need further help. I couldn't find a file named safemode.txt.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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You create safemode.txt. Open a program or app that can create text files. Create a file and name it safemode.txt.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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@Jim Thank you.
@Andrew Running BIAB in safe mode didn't eliminate the delay.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Okay, after further testing I found out an interesting correlation: The sluggish feel of the program increases when raising screen resolution.I noticed that the slow UI was much worse on my 5K iMac Pro than on my 12" Retina MacBook (both running macOS Big Sur, with the MacBook having a much slower Intel Core m5 CPU). To test this theory, I went to macOS System Preferences and increased the (virtual) screen resolution (to 3200x1800):  This made the sluggishness even worse and the bar display delay went up from half a second to a whole second! So I reduced the resolution (to 1600x900):  This improved things fundamentally. Next step: I went to Applications, selected Band-in-a-Box.app and pressed Cmd+i to show the inspector. There I checked »Open in low resolution«  When starting BIAB with this checkbox marked, the UI looks quite blurry, but it improves UI performance very very much! Clicking somewhere into the program results in an almost instant reaction of the user interface and when playing back songs, the bar/chord display is much closer to real time than before. @Andrew: I hope this helps to locate the problem. Additionally: It seems like the sluggish UI and the delayed chord display are two independent issues: In my tests, I connected my Airpods to my iMac and selected them as playback device for BIAB. Even in the highest resolution (and the most 'sluggishness' of the UI), the chord display had NO delay! I don't know if this has to do with CoreAudio, but it seems like when using the AirPods, the audio driver reports its buffer size correctly unlike when using the internal iMac speakers. With the correct buffer size, the display gets compensated properly (and is in sync with the audio).
Last edited by bolandross; 01/15/21 11:36 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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In my tests, I connected my Airpods to my iMac and selected them as playback device for BIAB. Even in the highest resolution (and the most 'sluggishness' of the UI), the chord display had NO delay! I don't know if this has to do with CoreAudio, but it seems like when using the AirPods, the audio driver reports its buffer size correctly unlike when using the internal iMac speakers. Thanks. You have some interesting findings. We would normally see the problem where the chords are displayed late when using a bluetooth speaker. It seems that something is compensating for the audio latency whether or not your AirPods are currently connected. Does unpairing them fix the problem completely? (And rebooting Band-in-a-Box without them being paired / connected).
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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I am so new to Mac issue I am not sure how core audio affects things. I nominate my pc laptop I usually get a small amount to delay if I am not using my ASIO interface.
With my Mac I have always used the same interface and never had delay. So my question is what are you using an interface or just straight out of the computer
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Does unpairing them fix the problem completely? (And rebooting Band-in-a-Box without them being paired / connected). Unfortunately, unpairing all my Bluetooth devices and rebooting didn't change anything. I even tried disabling Bluetooth completely, which resulted in no noticeable changes, either. One more thing: With the highest resolution I mentioned in my previous post, I managed to get a small visual delay even with Bluetooth audio.
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With my Mac I have always used the same interface and never had delay. So my question is what are you using an interface or just straight out of the computer This is straight out of the computer. I am not getting any problems when using DAW apps. I can easily achieve realtime audio with a combined latency (input + output) of 3 ms. So for example, playing a bass guitar into a DAW, using VST plugins for amplifier and cabinet simulation and monitoring the output via headphones with the built-in audio device of the iMac is possible without perceived latency. This is what surprises my so much regarding my problem: In my case, BIAB doesn't have to react to real time input. I am not sending MIDI notes to the program or playing anything live. The program just plays back a sheet of chords. It can use an output buffer even as long as 5 seconds, since the audio and visual data is completely predictable. I would even be willing to wait 10 seconds to pre-render the whole song! This is not a high performance use case.
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In my case, BIAB doesn't have to react to real time input. I am not sending MIDI notes to the program or playing anything live. The program just plays back a sheet of chords. Exact same situation here!
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From my own tests (on my 2012 Macbook Pro 15" Retina with Catalina) setting the resolution to the highest possible 3840 x 2400 , BIAB is out of sync by probably 300 milliseconds. That said, everything in the OS is sluggish on this machine in that resolution, although playing a fullscreen Youtube video was fine because that uses GPU acceleration.
Changing the GPU from integrated to discrete didn't help, but changing back to the "Default for display" resolution (which is a scaled 1440 x 900 resolution, actual screen resolution is 2880 x 1800) eliminated the delay.
I can't run Big Sur on this Macbook, and the only Big Sur compatible computer available to me doesn't have a retina screen and doesn't lag on it's own, so I can't say whether this is any better or worse with Big Sur.
Last edited by Simon - PG Music; 01/21/21 01:03 PM.
I work here
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In my tests, I connected my Airpods to my iMac and selected them as playback device for BIAB. [...] the chord display had NO delay! Also tried this with the AirPods Pro and... no delay Puzzling that the delay occurs over a wired connection (headphones) but not over bluetooth!
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It must be that the bluetooth connection correctly reports the latency time to Mac OS where the wired connection doesn't, interesting. I'll add notes to the bug report on that.
I work here
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In case it matters, just moved from a Mac Mini 2014 to the M1 2020 and the delay is now (almost) gone. It's still there but you have to be really focused to notice it.
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Thanks for this suggestion. I was having the same issue, and was looking for some sort of latency parameter in Preferences (I'm sure there was one fifteen years ago!). I did the same fix to start in low resolution mode and saw huge improvement in synchronization of sound with display. I have a 2019 27" iMac with Retina 5K display, and I'm listening through external speakers connected to the headphone output port.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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